The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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dajo9
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In reply to oski003 • 9:15a, 5/13/23
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
dajo9 said:
Russian terrorist Prighozin continues to insist on Russian retreat in the Battle of Reverse Stalingrad


Exactly. This is yet another reason that Russia has done so poorly and will continue to lose a war that their propaganda claims to be winning.

In addition to having no functional command and control or cohesive strategy, they would need to overcome internal strife.

just like we saw with the Soviet regime, Putin rewards loyalty above capability which means the various elements are more interested in fighting each other for power than in accomplishing whatever it is that they think they are doing in Ukraine.

Even if all of the propaganda were true (which it's not), the shills continue to ignore that the corrupt kakistocracy created by Putin will prevent Russia from achieving victory. This debacle will continue until Putin is forced to admit defeat.







The Russian information sphere is rife with people freaking out about how poorly things are going. They are trying to stem panic but it's clear they are in fact panicked. Don't believe the propaganda that is sure to appear in this thread.





Russia is in control of more than 25% of Ukrainian territory. It takes a certain useful idiot NATO propagandist spouting a firehood of falsehoods to make the claim that they will "continue to lose a war" under these circumstances.


What percent did Russia control when they began this special military operation in spring 2022?
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 9:26a, 5/13/23
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
dajo9 said:
Russian terrorist Prighozin continues to insist on Russian retreat in the Battle of Reverse Stalingrad


Exactly. This is yet another reason that Russia has done so poorly and will continue to lose a war that their propaganda claims to be winning.

In addition to having no functional command and control or cohesive strategy, they would need to overcome internal strife.

just like we saw with the Soviet regime, Putin rewards loyalty above capability which means the various elements are more interested in fighting each other for power than in accomplishing whatever it is that they think they are doing in Ukraine.

Even if all of the propaganda were true (which it's not), the shills continue to ignore that the corrupt kakistocracy created by Putin will prevent Russia from achieving victory. This debacle will continue until Putin is forced to admit defeat.







The Russian information sphere is rife with people freaking out about how poorly things are going. They are trying to stem panic but it's clear they are in fact panicked. Don't believe the propaganda that is sure to appear in this thread.





Russia is in control of more than 25% of Ukrainian territory. It takes a certain useful idiot NATO propagandist spouting a firehood of falsehoods to make the claim that they will "continue to lose a war" under these circumstances.


What percent did Russia control when they began this special military operation in spring 2022?


They went from controlling nearly 15,000 square miles to controlling 40,000 square miles.
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dajo9
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In reply to oski003 • 11:59a, 5/13/23
oski003 said:
dajo9 said:
oski003 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
dajo9 said:
Russian terrorist Prighozin continues to insist on Russian retreat in the Battle of Reverse Stalingrad


Exactly. This is yet another reason that Russia has done so poorly and will continue to lose a war that their propaganda claims to be winning.

In addition to having no functional command and control or cohesive strategy, they would need to overcome internal strife.

just like we saw with the Soviet regime, Putin rewards loyalty above capability which means the various elements are more interested in fighting each other for power than in accomplishing whatever it is that they think they are doing in Ukraine.

Even if all of the propaganda were true (which it's not), the shills continue to ignore that the corrupt kakistocracy created by Putin will prevent Russia from achieving victory. This debacle will continue until Putin is forced to admit defeat.







The Russian information sphere is rife with people freaking out about how poorly things are going. They are trying to stem panic but it's clear they are in fact panicked. Don't believe the propaganda that is sure to appear in this thread.





Russia is in control of more than 25% of Ukrainian territory. It takes a certain useful idiot NATO propagandist spouting a firehood of falsehoods to make the claim that they will "continue to lose a war" under these circumstances.


What percent did Russia control when they began this special military operation in spring 2022?


They went from controlling nearly 15,000 square miles to controlling 40,000 square miles.


Source please
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movielover
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4:26p, 5/13/23
Zelensky on his world tour, now in Italy. Must really be worried about Putin's response the recent drone attack on the Kremlin.
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movielover
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8:39p, 5/13/23
WSJ: U.S. Ally Rebuffs Requests to Block Russian Military Flights

Egypt is giving Moscow crucial access to its airspace, allowing a path to transport weapons to Ukraine from Syria
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oski003
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8:08a, 5/14/23
Big win for NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/14/europe/russia-aircraft-downed-ukraine-bryansk-intl/index.html
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Cal88
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In reply to oski003 • 11:21a, 5/14/23
oski003 said:
Big win for NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/14/europe/russia-aircraft-downed-ukraine-bryansk-intl/index.html

This comes at a time where Russia has been stepping up considerably its air bombing campaign. Over the last week the Russians have destroyed up to a half billion worth in NATO/Ukrainian weapons and ammo depots, most notably in the massive explosions in Khmelnitsky:



As well the baseline that has been set in recent operations like Desert Storm, where the US and allies lost less than a couple dozen planes, is an anomaly, the picture in this war is closer to Vietnam, where the US lost nearly 1,000 planes over a decade, including 533 F-4 Phantoms.

https://www.nhahistoricalsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/aircraftlossesofthevietnamwarnhahs.pdf

For Russia, large losses of top-flight jets like the Su35 would be disastrous, as unlike their tanks or AA batteries they cannot replace them quickly, and it is also the only area where Russia is outnumbered by NATO (though in a defensive war near Russian borders the balance is tipped by Russia's massive advantage in the quantity and quality of its AA fleet). However they can afford to lose a few dozen planes, if the damage calculus is favorable.

The answer for them would be to rely more heavily on more dispensable older jets like Mig23/27 or Su24 to conduct bombing missions.
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movielover
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11:42a, 5/14/23
Another excellent History Legends video, with possible details of the Ukrainian offensive.

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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 11:43a, 5/14/23
Unit2Sucks said:
Today's update.

First - some debate about Ukrainian casualties. Ukraine insists the US is overestimating casualties but Russian shills believe the casualties are 30x or more what the US has estimated lol. At some point the propagandists will project more casualties than people in Ukraine.



More evidence we are in the pre-offensive shaping phase.



LOL with all of the propaganda about Russia's hypersonic missiles, it looks like our decades old patriot system can take them down.



And now Ukraine has some of our MALDs to help defeat Russia's air defense.



Finally a reminder that Russia continues to be the biggest weapons donor in Ukraine. Maybe that's why the victory day parades didn't have anything to show.



I don't have time to point out many of your posts like this one here that primarily consist of pretty bad NATO wartime propaganda from marginal posters ("Dmitri" and "Trent") but here are some facts:

-Ukraine's KIAs are not 17,500, they are in the neighborhood of a quarter million. 8 months into the war, Ursula von der Leyen herself acknowledged that Ukraine has lost over 100,000 soldiers, and that acknowledgment was from 6 months ago, before the bloodiest phase of this war and the Battle of Bakhmut. This puts the lowest estimates of Ukrainian KIAs at around 175,000-200,000, over 10 times the figure U2S is trying to sell here.

The funniest aspect of the official 17,500KIA that Ukraine is posting is that that was the official figure they've posted last year. It's as if they were trying to sell a used car whose broken odometer reads 5,000mi and whose tires are bald,,,

-The kill on the Kinzhal hypersonic missile is bogus. The evidence presented is laughably wrong, meant to convince a credulous "Slava Ukraini" audience, the same type of propaganda mill that spawned The Ghost of Kyiv, the Snake Island 13 etc.


The diameter of the kinzhal is 3 feet wide, this here above on the left is a much smaller and thinner 500kg guided bomb. Note that the big guy posing with the fake Kinzhal prop is Nuland's buddy "Klitch", the mayor of Kiev and one of the top political figures in Ukraine, who is very much in his element here as a habitual liar.


-Russia has been using its own equivalent of MALDs over the course of this war, it has been a main feature in their campaign to exhaust Ukrainian Buk and S-300 inventory. They've also been largely successful countering HARM missile attacks so far.

-Russia is producing around 1,500 tanks per year, including 900 modern T-90s. In the 1980s the USSR produced 4,000 tanks/year, a lot of the mothballed soviet production facilities have been refurbished in a stepped up war effort. Shortages in items like ball bearings can be addressed through Chinese imports. They are definitely winning that particular phase of the war of attrition.
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 11:55a, 5/14/23
movielover said:
Another excellent History Legends video, with possible details of the Ukrainian offensive.


He has just released this video earlier today, which is a very good and precise update of the last 48hrs, where Ukraine has gained significant ground in the region north of Bakhmut:

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dimitrig
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12:59p, 5/14/23

Doesn't it get old cheerleading on the Russians?

I bet you were sad when Drago lost to Rocky.




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Cal88
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1:36p, 5/14/23
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In reply to dimitrig • 2:10p, 5/14/23
dimitrig said:

Doesn't it get old cheerleading on the Russians?

I bet you were sad when Drago lost to Rocky.



Seriously though, how much does a lifetime of anti-Russian propaganda, across the spectrum, from pop culture on to high-end think tank material (Nuland, Blinken, McFaul, Brzezinski, etc) shape your views on this conflict?

From where I stand, you are a cheerleader for the war, no different from those who cheered for the invasion and destruction of Iraq (now there's another much-maligned people in popular culture...)



This kind of material has been a staple in popular culture, dating back to the Cold War. It's largely based on the insular nature of American culture, and the highly effective role of film and TV in shaping American mindset and worldviews.

Russian cities today like Moscow or St Petersburg are much cleaner and safer than Paris, London or Milan. Russian airports are newer and better than American airports. Russian abortion rates and alcohol consumption have plummeted in the last few decades.

Russia is becoming more functional each year, while the West is headed in the opposite direction, with big cities like Chicago, SF, LA, London or Paris looking more and more like third world cities every year. As if these social and economic problems now plaguing the West weren't bad enough already, we want to engage in a full bore military buildup and war economy in an protracted war with Russia (and soon enough, China)?

Russia has an incredibly rich cultural and scientific heritage, among the richest in the world, particularly in the field of literature, music, dance, maths, chemistry. physics etc and is today the top exporter of wheat by far, contributing to keeping the price of bread and food staples lower especially in the developing world. Russia has also saved the world from Nazism, crushing the Third Reich and its western Ukrainian allies, at an incredibly high cost to their people.

Why can't we live in peace with them? Is it worth killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in this stupid Grand Chessboard proxy war of choice for the purpose of the Donbass and Crimea being controlled by western Ukrainian nationalists who are hell bent on stripping the Russian heritage out of these provinces? Is it worth risking WW3 and destabilizing the entire world economy for this?
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:13p, 5/14/23
Thank you for your posts. I admit I was in a 1995 mindset, figuring Russia was still on a downward trend.

Is the Russian mafia in decline?

https://images.app.goo.gl/7Yg2UpogTYbWk5YW8
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dimitrig
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In reply to Cal88 • 3:21p, 5/14/23
Cal88 said:
dimitrig said:

Doesn't it get old cheerleading on the Russians?

I bet you were sad when Drago lost to Rocky.



Seriously though, how much does a lifetime of anti-Russian propaganda, across the spectrum, from pop culture on to high-end think tank material (Nuland, Blinken, McFaul, Brzezinski, etc) shape your views on this conflict?

From where I stand, you are a cheerleader for the war, no different from those who cheered for the invasion and destruction of Iraq (now there's another much-maligned people in popular culture...)



This kind of material has been a staple in popular culture, dating back to the Cold War. It's largely based on the insular nature of American culture, and the highly effective role of film and TV in shaping American mindset and worldviews.

Russian cities today like Moscow or St Petersburg are much cleaner and safer than Paris, London or Milan. Russian airports are newer and better than American airports. Russian abortion rates and alcohol consumption have plummeted in the last few decades.

Russia is becoming more functional each year, while the West is headed in the opposite direction, with big cities like Chicago, SF, LA, London or Paris looking more and more like third world cities every year. As if these social and economic problems now plaguing the West weren't bad enough already, we want to engage in a full bore military buildup and war economy in an protracted war with Russia (and soon enough, China)?

Russia has an incredibly rich cultural and scientific heritage, among the richest in the world, particularly in the field of literature, music, dance, maths, chemistry. physics etc and is today the top exporter of wheat by far, contributing to keeping the price of bread and food staples lower especially in the developing world. Russia has also saved the world from Nazism, crushing the Third Reich and its western Ukrainian allies, at an incredibly high cost to their people.

Why can't we live in peace with them? Is it worth killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in this stupid Grand Chessboard proxy war of choice for the purpose of the Donbass and Crimea being controlled by western Ukrainian nationalists who are hell bent on stripping the Russian heritage out of these provinces? Is it worth risking WW3 and destabilizing the entire world economy for this?


I spent a week in Russia on vacation a few years back, saw a ballet, went to the Peterhof and the Hermitage, ate some interesting regional cuisines that are hard to find in the US and had a nice time. Russia is still very backward in many ways but I don't have anything against the Russian people.

That said, I do not support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I think it is a mistake and lots of Russians are dying for no real reason.


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movielover
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3:31p, 5/14/23
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DiabloWags
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4:27p, 5/14/23
Today's Baghdad Bob update from Putin88....

Russia just lost 2 commanders in eastern Ukraine and in a rare admission, owns up to the loss.

On Friday, Moscow acknowledged that its forces had fallen back north of Bakhmut amid a surge of Ukranian attacks.

But Mother Russia is still WINNING!



"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to DiabloWags • 5:15p, 5/14/23
DiabloWags said:
Today's Baghdad Bob update from Putin88....

Russia just lost 2 commanders in eastern Ukraine and in a rare admission, owns up to the loss.

On Friday, Moscow acknowledged that its forces had fallen back north of Bakhmut amid a surge of Ukranian attacks.

But Mother Russia is still WINNING!
I'm not sure anyone is really dumb enough to fall for the Russian propaganda - it's just sort of pointless gesturing to make Putin feel good. It certainly has no impact on NATO or Ukrainian decision-making or planning.

Here's a great interview with Zaluzhny - talking about the history of the war and strategy. If you listen to it you will notice that a lot of what he says is radically different from the low-grade Russian firehose of falsehoods that we heard from the shills early in the war. Some people might be inclined to say "that's all just NATO propaganda" but we can see that it's also exactly what happened on the ground and when you hear the rationale behind it, it makes perfect sense. Far more sense than the maroons who claimed that Russia tried to "feint" toward Kyiv or that they intentionally placed a 40 mile lineup of vehicles for Ukraine to take out.





Ukraine has something Russia will never have - strategic planning and execution. Even if Russia had all of the toys they claim (and they don't) and they worked as well as they claim (they don't), Ukraine would still be able to play above its weight because Russia has no command and control structure, no NCOs, no discipline and has warring factions. They have no reason to succeed in this war - the only reason it's happening is to appease Putin and they have to lie constantly to Putin because he values loyalty and good news above all else. It's hitler in the bunker non-sense and there is no way Russia will ever get out of it. That's why Gerasimov is now running the military operation - a guy with loss after loss but who knows how to play the game with Putin.

Here's another example:


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bearister
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In reply to bearister • 7:29p, 5/14/23
bearister said:
Methinks the head of the Wagner Group has either red eyes, painful tearing and peeling skin on his face and hands or a Hans Gruber experience out of a window in a tall building in his near future.



Wagner head offered to reveal Russian troop locations to Ukraine - Washington Post | Reuters


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wagner-head-offered-reveal-russian-troop-locations-ukraine-washington-post-2023-05-15/




Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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dimitrig
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In reply to bearister • 7:53p, 5/14/23
bearister said:
bearister said:
Methinks the head of the Wagner Group has either red eyes, painful tearing and peeling skin on his face and hands or a Hans Gruber experience out of a window in a tall building in his near future.



Wagner head offered to reveal Russian troop locations to Ukraine - Washington Post | Reuters


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wagner-head-offered-reveal-russian-troop-locations-ukraine-washington-post-2023-05-15/






How long before these mercenaries realize they can make more money fighting for the other side or just decide to quit completely?



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golden sloth
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:25p, 5/14/23
Cal88 said:
dimitrig said:

Doesn't it get old cheerleading on the Russians?

I bet you were sad when Drago lost to Rocky.



Seriously though, how much does a lifetime of anti-Russian propaganda, across the spectrum, from pop culture on to high-end think tank material (Nuland, Blinken, McFaul, Brzezinski, etc) shape your views on this conflict?

From where I stand, you are a cheerleader for the war, no different from those who cheered for the invasion and destruction of Iraq (now there's another much-maligned people in popular culture...)



This kind of material has been a staple in popular culture, dating back to the Cold War. It's largely based on the insular nature of American culture, and the highly effective role of film and TV in shaping American mindset and worldviews.

Russian cities today like Moscow or St Petersburg are much cleaner and safer than Paris, London or Milan. Russian airports are newer and better than American airports. Russian abortion rates and alcohol consumption have plummeted in the last few decades.

Russia is becoming more functional each year, while the West is headed in the opposite direction, with big cities like Chicago, SF, LA, London or Paris looking more and more like third world cities every year. As if these social and economic problems now plaguing the West weren't bad enough already, we want to engage in a full bore military buildup and war economy in an protracted war with Russia (and soon enough, China)?

Russia has an incredibly rich cultural and scientific heritage, among the richest in the world, particularly in the field of literature, music, dance, maths, chemistry. physics etc and is today the top exporter of wheat by far, contributing to keeping the price of bread and food staples lower especially in the developing world. Russia has also saved the world from Nazism, crushing the Third Reich and its western Ukrainian allies, at an incredibly high cost to their people.

Why can't we live in peace with them? Is it worth killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in this stupid Grand Chessboard proxy war of choice for the purpose of the Donbass and Crimea being controlled by western Ukrainian nationalists who are hell bent on stripping the Russian heritage out of these provinces? Is it worth risking WW3 and destabilizing the entire world economy for this?


Why can't Russia be at peace with its neighbors?

Russian imperialism is the cornerstone of Russian foreign policy dating back centuries. This is why all of Russia's neighbors fear them. Russia invades, conquers and subjugates their neighbors. Centuries of history shows the same pattern. Unfortunately that pattern is war, death and destruction.
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bearister
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In reply to dimitrig • 10:01p, 5/14/23
In a case of life imitating art, Dolph is going to look like that real soon.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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sycasey
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In reply to golden sloth • 11:17p, 5/14/23
golden sloth said:
Cal88 said:
dimitrig said:

Doesn't it get old cheerleading on the Russians?

I bet you were sad when Drago lost to Rocky.



Seriously though, how much does a lifetime of anti-Russian propaganda, across the spectrum, from pop culture on to high-end think tank material (Nuland, Blinken, McFaul, Brzezinski, etc) shape your views on this conflict?

From where I stand, you are a cheerleader for the war, no different from those who cheered for the invasion and destruction of Iraq (now there's another much-maligned people in popular culture...)



This kind of material has been a staple in popular culture, dating back to the Cold War. It's largely based on the insular nature of American culture, and the highly effective role of film and TV in shaping American mindset and worldviews.

Russian cities today like Moscow or St Petersburg are much cleaner and safer than Paris, London or Milan. Russian airports are newer and better than American airports. Russian abortion rates and alcohol consumption have plummeted in the last few decades.

Russia is becoming more functional each year, while the West is headed in the opposite direction, with big cities like Chicago, SF, LA, London or Paris looking more and more like third world cities every year. As if these social and economic problems now plaguing the West weren't bad enough already, we want to engage in a full bore military buildup and war economy in an protracted war with Russia (and soon enough, China)?

Russia has an incredibly rich cultural and scientific heritage, among the richest in the world, particularly in the field of literature, music, dance, maths, chemistry. physics etc and is today the top exporter of wheat by far, contributing to keeping the price of bread and food staples lower especially in the developing world. Russia has also saved the world from Nazism, crushing the Third Reich and its western Ukrainian allies, at an incredibly high cost to their people.

Why can't we live in peace with them? Is it worth killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in this stupid Grand Chessboard proxy war of choice for the purpose of the Donbass and Crimea being controlled by western Ukrainian nationalists who are hell bent on stripping the Russian heritage out of these provinces? Is it worth risking WW3 and destabilizing the entire world economy for this?


Why can't Russia be at peace with its neighbors?

Russian imperialism is the cornerstone of Russian foreign policy dating back centuries. This is why all of Russia's neighbors fear them. Russia invades, conquers and subjugates their neighbors. Centuries of history shows the same pattern. Unfortunately that pattern is war, death and destruction.

Seems like the rest of the world was perfectly happy to live in an uncomfortable peace with Russia until they invaded Ukraine.
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movielover
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In reply to golden sloth • 11:42p, 5/14/23
Russia isn't the USSR.
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DiabloWags
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In reply to golden sloth • 8:39a, 5/15/23
golden sloth said:


Why can't Russia be at peace with its neighbors?

Russian imperialism is the cornerstone of Russian foreign policy dating back centuries. This is why all of Russia's neighbors fear them. Russia invades, conquers and subjugates their neighbors. Centuries of history shows the same pattern. Unfortunately that pattern is war, death and destruction.

All true.

Because it's being run by a Mad Man that is still deeply resentful and butthurt over the break-up of historical Russia.
He hates how the Cold War ended, with Moscow losing territory, influence, and empire. During Covid, he reportedly spent countless hours looking at maps of the USSR and what the empire used to look like.

"We lost 40% or our territory ... much of what had been accumulated over 1,000 years was lost."

Vladimir Putin, December 20, 2021


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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tequila4kapp
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In reply to oski003 • 2:03p, 5/15/23
oski003 said:
Big win for NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/14/europe/russia-aircraft-downed-ukraine-bryansk-intl/index.html
I have been a big proponent of Ukraine's inherent right - heretofore limited by NATO - to attack Russia military inside Russian borders. However, my reaction here is not unlike my reaction to Russia using the new drones...this is just going to lead to escalation. Russia will be / act indignant over its territory being violated and will respond accordingly. It is a vicious cycle. How does this war ever end?
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movielover
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7:40p, 5/15/23


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smh
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In reply to tequila4kapp • 7:54p, 5/15/23
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
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movielover
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In reply to smh • 9:02p, 5/15/23
smh said:
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"


2. Zelensky leaves the country and AZOV / NAZI's are eliminated
3. America forces peace talks / pulls funding
4. Germany and France pressure NATO to have peace talks
5. Russia stops the Ukranian offensive, and grinds down every standing piece of military equipment and adult male to the Polish border
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dimitrig
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In reply to smh • 9:09p, 5/15/23
smh said:
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"


The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.
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movielover
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In reply to dimitrig • 9:32p, 5/15/23
dimitrig said:
smh said:
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"


The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.


Good luck with that.

NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.

Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.
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dimitrig
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9:34p, 5/15/23

Why did the United States lose the Vietnam War?

1. Ambiguous Aims & Objectives of the War

The US failed to articulate clear-cut aims and objectives at the tactical level. Consequently, there was a lot of confusion about the desired results of the military intervention. It just jumped in without properly defining any tangible and verifiable goals and objectives in terms of military achievements. Lack of clarity about the overall objective of the military intervention, therefore, resulted in inconsistent policy and strategy formulation by the Pentagon.

2. Lack of Consistency in Policy Formulation

Americans paid lip service to the Vietnamese while treating them horribly. You have to destroy the village in order to save it.

3. Public Support for Vietcong

Henry Kissinger has rightly pointed out that "The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerilla wins if he does not lose."

Viet Cong guerillas had time at their disposal. They solicited public support through extremely effective use of propaganda inside Vietnam; they just painted the USA as an invading force. Americans tried to use bombing campaigns and advanced weaponry and coupled them with brutal tactics to show how strong it was, and how futile it was for the Vietnamese to continue resisting. It wanted them to submit by scaring them which worked the opposite way. The images of American atrocities horrified the world, especially America's population. It did not achieve any objective for America. If anything, it made the local population hate America even more and join Viet Cong.

4. Support of China.

One of the most crucial reasons for the defeat of the USA was the wholehearted support of China to North Vietnam. The Chinese support for the Vietcong was not only for strategic security concerns of China but also motivated by the sense of an international responsibility to help brotherly comrades and promote the anti-imperialist revolution.

Consequently, despite the best efforts of the USA, there was no interruption of supplies of food and war materials for the Vietcong from China.

5. Lack of understanding of Political Dynamics

The USA failed to comprehend the political dynamics of the local and regional landscape, and, more importantly, what Vietnam wanted to become. They thought it was about communism vs capitalism, and that as a result, the Vietnamese would support the Americans if they understood what America was promising. Instead, the US antagonized everyone and pushed even its former supporters against America.

6. Intelligence failure of the CIA.

It failed to gauge the scope of the war and underestimated the strength of the Vietcong. It was compounded by confusion about definitions, faulty accounting techniques, and figure fudging. Focusing too much on technology instead of Human Intelligence (HUMINT) resulted in a disconnect that prevented the integration and fusing of information to achieve efficient, accurate intelligence assessments. These failures, in turn, led the USA to adopt conventional military solutions for an unconventional problem.

7. Dwindling Domestic Public Support

Vietnam War was the first fully televised war creating its supporters as well as opponents in every house in the USA. News about the atrocities and horror stories like the Mai Lai massacre soon made the war very unpopular. The use of the draft made it even more detestable.

Link:
https://shahidhraja.medium.com/why-did-the-united-states-lose-the-vietnam-war-e9bfc4096724

Russia looks like it is on target to achieve most of these and it has only been 8 years (since 2014)! It took the US 20 years to lose!




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movielover
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In reply to dimitrig • 9:47p, 5/15/23
Your reading comprehension is poor.

1. Objectives of the War - very clear. Putin sees Crimea as Russian, the Donbas tight w Russia, Ukraine neutral & no Nazi's.

2. Consistency - since 2008?

3. Public Support for Putin - 80%?

4. Support of China and Iran fir Russia; probably North Korea (China) as well.

5. Political Dynamics - Putin appears to be limiting KIA of Russians, as well as civilian Ukrainian deaths, which should gain him broader approval.

6. Intelligence failure of the CIA - yes, they blew it again; Russia is now stronger, and NATO / US are weaker.

7. Dwindling Domestic Public Support - see above comments.

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golden sloth
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In reply to smh • 10:51p, 5/15/23
smh said:
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"


Unfortunately, when a war ends is usually decided by the loser. In this case, if Putin would lose this war it would mean the end of his reign, which is untenable.
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golden sloth
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In reply to movielover • 10:52p, 5/15/23
movielover said:
dimitrig said:
smh said:
> How does this war ever end?

Putin "retires"


The same way Vietnam ended. Ukraine keeps fighting Russia as long it takes for them to pack up and go home.


Good luck with that.

NATO in Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia; Vietnam was no such threat to America, along with being 9,000 miles away.

Meanwhile, Zelensky continues his CYA world tour after an attack on the Kremlin. Now in the UK.


Ukraine was never joining NATO.
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