I would prefer peace talks, but rumblings that Biden-Obama-Clinton want the US to escalate the war before the 2024 election.

movielover said:

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I would prefer peace talks, but rumblings that Biden-Obama-Clinton want the US to escalate the war before the 2024 election.

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"If the U.S. escalates, they will have no choice in the matter because Putin started the whole thing" - you know who

Cal88 said:

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How Russia is winning the war - the Lancet drone:

Summary of the Lancet suicide drone at work … pic.twitter.com/6eHLWZLee3

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) June 15, 2023

The Lancet is a homemade loitering drone program which the Russians perfected during the war. It is the most efficient drone system in the world today, with a range of up to 70km and capable of destroying fast-moving vehicles. It is mass-produced in a giant plant with a unit cost around $10k - $15k.

In the 9min compilation above, the Russians destroyed nearly half a billion dollars' worth of equipment at a cost of less than a million $'s worth of Lancets. This weapon system is one of the reasons Russia is winning the war of attrition.

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This drone ought to be super-easy to shut down: Just get the British medical journal The Lancet to sue the Rooskies for using the name without permission. Boom.

You're welcome.

(Why the heck aren't I doing consultant work for the Pentagon when I know darn well that's where the money is?)

I don't think the Russkies are properly equipped to handle a posse of finicky and fastidious British lawyers, now this is the gamechanger NATO has been looking for.

movielover said:

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At 65% in the polls, let's say President Trump survives the GOP primary vs the Globalist RINOs and their $600 Million from Wall Street Globalist exfiltrators of American wealth.

Would Biden-Obama-Clinton directly enter the war, or even use nukes?

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No. The last thing anybody wants is for this war to spread. And if you think they would let their decisions be based on politics, then no still, because it would also be bad politics.

Biden was the guy who got us out of Afghanistan, in case you don't remember.

Russia-Ukraine war could end if counteroffensive is successful, says Zelensky


https://www.axios.com/2023/06/15/ukraine-counteroffensive-house-republicans-trump

movielover said:

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Biden got us into this war,

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Pure delusion.

Worse.

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

movielover said:

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Big C said:

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movielover said:

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At 65% in the polls, let's say President Trump survives the GOP primary vs the Globalist RINOs and their $600 Million from Wall Street Globalist exfiltrators of American wealth.

Would Biden-Obama-Clinton directly enter the war, or even use nukes?

---

No. The last thing anybody wants is for this war to spread. And if you think they would let their decisions be based on politics, then no still, because it would also be bad politics.

Biden was the guy who got us out of Afghanistan, in case you don't remember.

---

Biden got us into this war, and refused a peace deal Israeli PM Bennett and Zelensky had formed. Boris Johnson (USA) put the kabosh to it in case you don't remember.

Where the war sits today was predictable to honest brokers, yet there are still no voices of reason. We've marched over 300,000 Ukrainian men to their death, destroyed a country, hallowed out NATO, and arguably created the best army on the planet (not us).

General Milley spoke out against the war, and was quickly humbled. He could have resigned and stood by his comments.

P.S. No reasonable person can forget Biden, Blinken, and 40 generals disastrous pullout and arming of Middle eastern terrorists and handing over our technology.

---

Here's why, with respect, I find your position laughable:

If Biden and the Dems had played "peacenik" and resisted helping Ukraine... and if Fox News had then decided that -- USA! USA! -- we need to get in there and stop the threat of that evil Commie, Putin ("This is just like Hitler in 1939!"), you would be soooooo for this war, it wouldn't be funny.

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

Goldener Bar said:

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It disappoints me greatly that an otherwise pretty sharp guy is falling for this narrative. I'd like to have a serious conversation with you about why this war is so bad, but I'm skeptical that I could get through to you on this.

Most of the rest of the pro-war guys are beyond help.

---

And you've never believed in freedom for all or American exceptionalism.

Wrong. I was duped by Colin Powell into the first war under dim George Bush Jr. I'm tired of pointless wars 5,000 miles away from our country while our cities implode and our border is wide open.

sycasey said:

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Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

---

History is relevant.

0. The world watched our disastrous pullout in Afghanistan.
1. We helped topple a duly elected PM.
2. Our allies openly stated Minsk I and II were purposeful delay tactics.
3. We led NATOs military buildup in Ukraine.
4. President Biden made no efforts at peace talks with Putin.
5. The US stopped Zelenskys planned peace negotiations with PM Bennett of Israel early in this SMO.
6. Victoria Nuland has been in the middle of this for years; six months ago she was urging Ukraine to strike Crimea.
7. President Biden said he would stop Nordstream 2. Writer Seymour Hersh says the USA blew up the Russian pipelines, an act of war.

Colonel McGregor now thinks leaders in Ukraine should be brought up on murder charges.

Goldener Bar said:

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Big C said:

---

movielover said:

---

Big C said:

---

movielover said:

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At 65% in the polls, let's say President Trump survives the GOP primary vs the Globalist RINOs and their $600 Million from Wall Street Globalist exfiltrators of American wealth.

Would Biden-Obama-Clinton directly enter the war, or even use nukes?

---

No. The last thing anybody wants is for this war to spread. And if you think they would let their decisions be based on politics, then no still, because it would also be bad politics.

Biden was the guy who got us out of Afghanistan, in case you don't remember.

---

Biden got us into this war, and refused a peace deal Israeli PM Bennett and Zelensky had formed. Boris Johnson (USA) put the kabosh to it in case you don't remember.

Where the war sits today was predictable to honest brokers, yet there are still no voices of reason. We've marched over 300,000 Ukrainian men to their death, destroyed a country, hallowed out NATO, and arguably created the best army on the planet (not us).

General Milley spoke out against the war, and was quickly humbled. He could have resigned and stood by his comments.

P.S. No reasonable person can forget Biden, Blinken, and 40 generals disastrous pullout and arming of Middle eastern terrorists and handing over our technology.

---

Here's why, with respect, I find your position laughable:

If Biden and the Dems had played "peacenik" and resisted helping Ukraine... and if Fox News had then decided that -- USA! USA! -- we need to get in there and stop the threat of that evil Commie, Putin ("This is just like Hitler in 1939!"), you would be soooooo for this war, it wouldn't be funny.

---

It disappoints me greatly that an otherwise pretty sharp guy is falling for this narrative. I'd like to have a serious conversation with you about why this war is so bad, but I'm skeptical that I could get through to you on this.

Most of the rest of the pro-war guys are beyond help.

---

I'm not sure what you believe my position to be, but I have stated it a number of times here and, believe me, the "pro-war guys" do not agree with a lot of it. It's a little late at night to be stating it again, but I'm sure it can be found somewhere very early in this thread.

This may have been part of Putin's 3.5 hour press conference.

"The United States instead of contacts with Russia chose to supply military equipment to Ukraine, we'll burn it all - let's see what happens next," - Putin pic.twitter.com/fG3NpQE9h1

— Trollstoy (@Trollstoy88) June 16, 2023

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

---

Just to reiterate the truth, Russia and Ukraine could be at war and there's still no reason why the U.S. needs to be involved.

---

So you don't foresee any negative consequences if we just let Russia take Ukraine, which is basically what you're asking for here?

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

---

History is relevant.

0. The world watched our disastrous pullout in Afghanistan.
1. We helped topple a duly elected PM.
2. Our allies openly stated Minsk I and II were purposeful delay tactics.
3. We led NATOs military buildup in Ukraine.
4. President Biden made no efforts at peace talks with Putin.
5. The US stopped Zelenskys planned peace negotiations with PM Bennett of Israel early in this SMO.
6. Victoria Nuland has been in the middle of this for years; six months ago she was urging Ukraine to strike Crimea.
7. President Biden said he would stop Nordstream 2. Writer Seymour Hersh says the USA blew up the Russian pipelines, an act of war.

---

Here's the problem with this argument:

To make the argument that the US is responsible, you have to do this 8-point conspiracy theory thing. To make the argument that Russia is responsible, all I have to say is: "They invaded another country." Pretty simple.

"We use Ukraine to weaken Russia" is simple enough.

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

---

History is relevant.

0. The world watched our disastrous pullout in Afghanistan.
1. We helped topple a duly elected PM.
2. Our allies openly stated Minsk I and II were purposeful delay tactics.
3. We led NATOs military buildup in Ukraine.
4. President Biden made no efforts at peace talks with Putin.
5. The US stopped Zelenskys planned peace negotiations with PM Bennett of Israel early in this SMO.
6. Victoria Nuland has been in the middle of this for years; six months ago she was urging Ukraine to strike Crimea.
7. President Biden said he would stop Nordstream 2. Writer Seymour Hersh says the USA blew up the Russian pipelines, an act of war.

---

Here's the problem with this argument:

To make the argument that the US is responsible, you have to do this 8-point conspiracy theory thing. To make the argument that Russia is responsible, all I have to say is: "They invaded another country." Pretty simple.

---

Here's the problem with your argument

Absent the threat of NATO, Russia has no reason to feel threatened by Ukraine.

---

Russia faced no threat from Ukraine anyway.

Cal88 said:

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"We use Ukraine to weaken Russia" is simple enough.

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And then Russia obliged by starting a stupid and disastrous war. They didn't have to.

Russia and Ukraine had a workable peace deal in April 2022, with Russia withdrawing troops and Crimea lease?

Ex US National Security Council official wrote citing "multiple former senior U.S. officials" that Russia & Ukraine agreed in April on peace deal framework of #Russia withdrawing to pre-war positions & #Ukraine promising not to seek #NATO membership. https://t.co/njY7mhbtC0

— Ivan Katchanovski (@I_Katchanovski) June 14, 2023

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

Biden got us into this war,

---

Pure delusion.

---

Without Biden, there's no reason for the U.S. to be in Ukraine at all

---

Just to reiterate the truth:

1. Russia started this war, not anyone else.
2. The US is aiding Ukraine, but is not "in" the war. Our soldiers are not fighting.

That's all.

---

History is relevant.

0. The world watched our disastrous pullout in Afghanistan.
1. We helped topple a duly elected PM.
2. Our allies openly stated Minsk I and II were purposeful delay tactics.
3. We led NATOs military buildup in Ukraine.
4. President Biden made no efforts at peace talks with Putin.
5. The US stopped Zelenskys planned peace negotiations with PM Bennett of Israel early in this SMO.
6. Victoria Nuland has been in the middle of this for years; six months ago she was urging Ukraine to strike Crimea.
7. President Biden said he would stop Nordstream 2. Writer Seymour Hersh says the USA blew up the Russian pipelines, an act of war.

---

Here's the problem with this argument:

To make the argument that the US is responsible, you have to do this 8-point conspiracy theory thing. To make the argument that Russia is responsible, all I have to say is: "They invaded another country." Pretty simple.

---

Global Warming caused by man-made CO2 = hypothesis

The above 8 items = documented facts

NATO / US military on Russia's western border is a well-known existential threat. See Cuban missile crisis.

The Ukraine war is a giant test to locate the exact tipping point for World War 3. We haven’t found it yet but the search continues rest assured.

— Max Abrahms (@MaxAbrahms) June 16, 2023

The 51 intel leaders who lied to Americans that Hunter’s laptop was Russian at the behest of the Biden campaign to help him debate Trump are now the go-to authorities on the Ukraine war. Having a track-record of lying and inaccuracy and overall foolishness is not disqualifying.

— Max Abrahms (@MaxAbrahms) June 16, 2023

Looking forward to Ukraine expert Hunter Biden’s peace proposal. After all, he got a million dollars a year for Ukraine insights when his dad directed Ukraine policy.

— Max Abrahms (@MaxAbrahms) June 14, 2023

After admitting Ukraine into NATO, we need to add the Gaza Strip, Kashmir, Taiwan, Ethiopia & South Sudan to ensure World War 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8.

— Max Abrahms (@MaxAbrahms) June 14, 2023

Russian economy continues to implode.

Russian companies reporting in the first quarter of this year the biggest shortage of personnel since data collection began in 1998, according to the Russian Central Bank.

The loss of human capital is a disaster for their economy.

MOSCOW, April 14 (Reuters) - "Russia's economy ministry revised higher on Friday its 2023 gross domestic product (GDP) forecast to 1.2% growth from a 0.8% contraction, but lowered its forecast for 2024, ..."

DiabloWags said:

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Russian economy continues to implode.

Russian companies reporting in the first quarter of this year the biggest shortage of personnel since data collection began in 1998, according to the Russian Central Bank.

The loss of human capital is a disaster for their economy.

---

If you would just listen to the propaganda Russia wants you to hear you would see everything is going great in Russia. Their manufacturing sector is taking off and they now make the most advanced small FPV drones in the world.

Ooops

1/ QUICK THREAD on yet another critique of the Russian MOD's efforts to produce domestic drones and quadcopters - after a few were showcased at #SPIEF2023 and turned out to be Chinese drones under a Russian label. Main points below. https://t.co/oa6so4EyqX https://t.co/giQdoOZDnl pic.twitter.com/O7OWsVhIqI

— Samuel Bendett (@sambendett) June 15, 2023

As for human capital shortages, they aren't having trouble finding people to serve in their military,

Ooops.

2/ According to the prisoners' rights group 'Russia Behind Bars', the Russian Ministry of Defence has recruited more than 15,000 people directly from penal colonies. This follows the banning earlier this year of Wagner's previously extensive prison recruitment campaign.

— ChrisO_wiki (@ChrisO_wiki) June 16, 2023

But you can tell by what's really going on that Putin has moved onto Plan B in Ukraine which was always his ultimate aim - destroy Ukraine and ensure there is no economic competition. That's why Russia blew up the dam and is using its artillery not for military gain but to wreak as much havoc as possible across Ukraine. A destroyed Ukraine has always been the end game. Just like Ellsberg showed that "bombing the ****" out of Vietnam didn't endear us to Vietnamese, Russia's destruction of Ukraine is not intended to benefit the Russian minority he pretends to care about. Adding Ukraine to Russian territory would have been a feather in his cap, but Putin will be perfectly happy to just eliminate Ukraine altogether.

There are signs that Russia has realized its imminent defeat in Ukraine and now wants to undermine Ukraine economically as much as possible.

The destruction of Kakhovka HPP was a strike on Ukraine's economy. Agricultural capacity of Ukrainian South has suffered unbelievable…

— Anton Gerashchenko (@Gerashchenko_en) June 12, 2023