The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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movielover said:

Blinken Offers Russia a White Flag

The Ukrainian authorities are ready to negotiate with Russia to end the war U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

"When it comes to negotiations, it takes two to tango. And so far we have not seen any signs of interest in diplomacy from Vladimir Putin. If he shows interest, then I think the Ukrainians will be the first to enter into negotiations, and we will be right behind them. Everyone wants this military conflict to end, but it must end on fair and sustainable terms that reflect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine," Blinken said.
Losers don't get to dictate terms.



Full list of top thinkers who said NATO expansion would provoke Russia
dajo9
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Zippergate said:

dajo9 said:

Yes, but you are avoiding the question. Which currency is better than the USD as a reserve currency?
Maybe you're asking the wrong question. China has surpassed the US as the largest trading partner for most nations in the world. China is the world's largest importer of many commodities and oil in particular. Why should those transactions be denominated in dollars? The recent BRICS summit which will now include China, India, Russia, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia among others showed that these nations are dissatisfied with dollar hegemony and are fed up with the weaponization of the global payment system by the US via sanctions and freezing of dollar assets. They've been accumulating gold and selling treasuries. Who knows how this how and when this will all shake out, but the notion that the US can endlessly abuse the system for its own benefit without consequence strikes me as dangerous hubris.


I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. I want to learn more from you. A few posts back you said the USD was no longer the best reserve currency. Ok, fine. What is?
oski003
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dajo9 said:

Zippergate said:

dajo9 said:

Yes, but you are avoiding the question. Which currency is better than the USD as a reserve currency?
Maybe you're asking the wrong question. China has surpassed the US as the largest trading partner for most nations in the world. China is the world's largest importer of many commodities and oil in particular. Why should those transactions be denominated in dollars? The recent BRICS summit which will now include China, India, Russia, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia among others showed that these nations are dissatisfied with dollar hegemony and are fed up with the weaponization of the global payment system by the US via sanctions and freezing of dollar assets. They've been accumulating gold and selling treasuries. Who knows how this how and when this will all shake out, but the notion that the US can endlessly abuse the system for its own benefit without consequence strikes me as dangerous hubris.


I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. I want to learn more from you. A few posts back you said the USD was no longer the best reserve currency. Ok, fine. What is?

It was established that the safest form of reserves are NFTs of Hunter Biden paintings.
Haloski
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oski003 said:

dajo9 said:

Zippergate said:

dajo9 said:

Yes, but you are avoiding the question. Which currency is better than the USD as a reserve currency?
Maybe you're asking the wrong question. China has surpassed the US as the largest trading partner for most nations in the world. China is the world's largest importer of many commodities and oil in particular. Why should those transactions be denominated in dollars? The recent BRICS summit which will now include China, India, Russia, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia among others showed that these nations are dissatisfied with dollar hegemony and are fed up with the weaponization of the global payment system by the US via sanctions and freezing of dollar assets. They've been accumulating gold and selling treasuries. Who knows how this how and when this will all shake out, but the notion that the US can endlessly abuse the system for its own benefit without consequence strikes me as dangerous hubris.


I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. I want to learn more from you. A few posts back you said the USD was no longer the best reserve currency. Ok, fine. What is?

It was established that the safest form of reserves are NFTs of Hunter Biden paintings.


Thank you. I'm so sick of people not paying attention.
Haloski
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NEW INVENTORY IN STOCK:

NFT videos featuring 1 minute replays of each glorious Mark Fox led game of our soon to be resurrected basketball team.

We're also working on an NFT collection featuring the late night culinary excellence found within one block of the university campus. The first will be La Burrita and will come with a bonus Imodium NFT.
Haloski
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dimitrig said:

dajo9 said:

Zippergate said:

Putin was ready to negotiate a peace deal back in April '22 when the scope and casualties of the conflict were much lower than today. Russia's position has strengthened both in Ukraine and at home while Ukraine has been decimated military and is entirely dependent on NATO. It's not hard to imagine what kind of deal relative to April '22 Ukraine is going to get. Was the last year and half of fighting worth it? To all the people who think Ukraine's pre-war borders are sacrosanct and non-negotiable, how do you feel about Blinken selling out the Ukrainians?
You seem like an expert on international matters. Last week you said the USD was no longer the best reserve currency. What is the new best reserve currency? Thank you in advance for sharing your expertise.

NFTs






THANK YOU!

In your honor, I've minted a Shohei Ohtani NFT. It has a special feature whereby you can click on his right elbow and $200 million is immediately wiped from value of the token.
Haloski
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Cal88 said:

Haloski said:

oski003 said:

Haloski said:

Cal88 said:


This is really disgusting, the Kiev regime actually killed one of their own official negotiators, Denys Kiryeev, gunning him down in the street mafia-style in broad daylight, because they deemed him too soft on Russia.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-reports-claim-negotiator-shot-for-treason-officials-say-he-died-in-intel-op/


That's absolutely awful.

Saint Putin, thank goodness, would never do such a thing. His nonawfulness knows no bounds as he showers humanity with his grace.

These people all suck. It's not good to cheerlead for any of them.


Putin certainly would punish those who undermine him. However, we are talking about NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks unwillingness to make peace. Whether or not Putin would assassinate someone, such as a rogue general, is irrelevant.


It's ok for you to admit that Putin is a giant piece of **** while still opposing the NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks.

Putin has absolutely used the positions he's found himself in to enrich himself at the expense of others to the tune of a sum that makes Zelensky and many in the MIC stateside look like chumps. He's absolutely silenced and harmed people that not only undermined him, but merely voiced opposition to him. It's not a singular instance of a guy rebelling and having his plane shot down, so let's not pretend that it's the only example or that all others are similar.

Thing is, I can say that so many of the people involved in our system are absolutely reprehensible sleazebags, just like Putin.

We all know it to be true, but you'd never say it of Putin and his cronies. It's ok. You're all hypocrites.

GO BEARS! BEAT AUBURN!

There is a tendency to designate the leader of the foreign enemy du jour a the lovechild of Hitler and Imelda Marcos, by default.

There is also the tendency for the general public to buy into this media characterization without any criticism or nuance.

There is also a lot of cultural conditioning when it comes to the framing of the designated enemy cultures - "Huns", "Gooks" in the Vietnam war era, assorted mideast Muslims since the Iran revolution, on to the Gulf wars, and now the reviving of the old Cold War archenemy, the damn Russkies, with the red China yellow peril not far behind.

Foreign policy is sold to the general public framed as a Hollywood narrative, with Hollywood villains. Putin is Palpatine, Zelensky Skywalker. This has been part of the imagery and myth-building of the Ukraine narrative, as well as the steady stream of Hollywood celebrities endorsing it.



The war is framed as a hero's journey battle between good and evil, and intensely personalized with the designated enemy leader taking on the full attributes of a Bond villain. This is where I tap out.

I don't bear any hatred towards Russia or the Russian people, to the contrary, I have a lot of respect for their rich cultural heritage, their history and contributions to world civilization, including liberating Europe from the Nazis. They lost 14 million soldiers, fighting them, vs 140,000 for the US, 100 times greater sacrifice. If the USSR did not fight Germany, the Wehrmacht would have easily conquered Britain and beat back any US attempt to land anywhere on the Continent.

The actions Putin undertook were in line with his country's geopolitical interests. That much is clearly understood by serious political analysts like John Mearsheimer, George Kennan, Zbig Brzezinski or even current US intel boss William Burns, all of whom have predicted Russia's current course of action, based on their well-known red lines, which US/NATO policies went out of their way to cross. If anything Putin is a prudent, calculating leader whose main domestic opposition are more aggressive parties (nationalists and communists). He's a moderate and somewhat of a liberal, on the Russian political spectrum, regarded as an indecisive, almost weak leader from both their hard right and left.

Ironically enough, Putin is also a pro-European character, being from St Petersburg (Russia's most European metropole), and having been stationed in East Germany. He speaks fluent German. He wanted Russia to be part of Europe, even wanted to join NATO, an aspiration which was rebuffed during the Clinton and Bush years. We won the Cold War, and Russia has no place in the victor's table. If anything, the leading interest groups in the US were pissed at Putin for having closed off their access to the vast Russian mineral and industrial assets.

Putin is very well-liked at home, not because the Russians are dumb serfs who are culturally conditioned to worship a supreme leader-dictator, but because much like Xi, he has delivered for his country, which without his intervention would have easily fallen apart and disintegrated much like the USSR did. Russians today are fairly well-off, with virtually no debt, no unemployment, low inflation, low crime, a social net, good infrastructure and thriving agricultural and industrial sectors.

My point here is that the world is a bit more complex than the narrative you are sold.




Sure, that's all great and wonderful and I'm sure you had a lot fun typing it, but he's still a giant piece of **** in many respects and you lack the ability to call him out on it.

It's probably possible to achieve one's goals without having people thrown off of buildings on the regs. You're selling yourself a narrative if you don't think that's the case.

All these people suck in many ways, and there's no need to justify **** that doesn't need to happen in order for them to be able to improve the lives of others. It's ok to admit it.

I eagerly anticipate your 43 paragraph response to this.
Unit2Sucks
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LOL Putin continuing to pretend the war is going well.



Here's the state of play over the last 12 months - you can see that Russia is ... not capturing land. Their only "victory" in the last 12 months was the pyrrhic one at Bakhmut which has proven not to hold any strategic value for them. It was a trophy for Prigozhin and a costly one at that. Like most wars, this one has been terrible for everyone involved - there are no winners, only losers. Everyone knows this war has been brutal on Ukraine, from the destruction of Mariupol (with targeting of civilians), to the Bucha massacre, to the unnecessary military involvement forced on Ukraine. It takes a special kind of propaganda to claim that this war has made Russia stronger and to pretend that this is somehow good for them.




Meanwhile, Putin continues to kill off any Russian critical of his war effort.



As for Russia getting stronger, here's more evidence to the contrary. Letting lose a bunch of violent Wagner ex-cons doesn't seem to be making Russia safer.

Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

LOL Putin continuing to pretend the war is going well.

Here's the state of play over the last 12 months - you can see that Russia is ... not capturing land. Their only "victory" in the last 12 months was the pyrrhic one at Bakhmut which has proven not to hold any strategic value for them. It was a trophy for Prigozhin and a costly one at that. Like most wars, this one has been terrible for everyone involved - there are no winners, only losers. Everyone knows this war has been brutal on Ukraine, from the destruction of Mariupol (with targeting of civilians), to the Bucha massacre, to the unnecessary military involvement forced on Ukraine. It takes a special kind of propaganda to claim that this war has made Russia stronger and to pretend that this is somehow good for them.

Meanwhile, Putin continues to kill off any Russian critical of his war effort.

As for Russia getting stronger, here's more evidence to the contrary. Letting lose a bunch of violent Wagner ex-cons doesn't seem to be making Russia safer.


Completely ignore the Counteroffensive in your post, just throw in older maps from last Summer/fall when Russia had fewer than 200k soldiers manning a frontline almost twice as long.

This counteroffensive has been the main focus of Ukraine since winter, in which they have invested 100,000 men, losing the majority of that manpower and about half their entire arsenal without making a dent into the Russian fortifications, they have barely reached the first defensive line. You have to be completely tone deaf to think that the counteroffensive has been anything but a military failure.

Quote:

"Contrary to the expectations of almost all Western countries, the counteroffensive failed thoroughly." This is what the renowned US political scientist John Mearsheimer states in an article published in the current issue of the weekly newspaper Die Weltwoche .

Ukraine has suffered heavy losses and lost large quantities of weapons in the past three months of fighting. The blitzkrieg strategy that was intended to break through the Russian lines failed, said Mearsheimer.

"The Ukrainian counteroffensive was doomed to failure from the start ," writes the expert. Kiev's troops had "practically no chance" of breaking through the Russian defense lines and achieving their goals.

The Ukrainian leadership and its Western supporters tried to prevent a grueling war of attrition with a "classic blitzkrieg strategy". The goal was to advance deep into Russian territory.

But Kiev's troops were dealing with an "equal opponent" and at the same time were poorly prepared for a blitzkrieg, emphasizes Mearsheimer. Nevertheless, Western politicians and experts in particular have always spread optimism about Ukraine's prospects on the battlefield and put corresponding pressure on Kiev.

In contrast, the Ukrainian leadership itself hesitated before the "counteroffensive" began on June 4th. "Probably because at least some of them understood that they were being led to the slaughter," the political scientist suspects.


As well, Russia has not deliberately targeted civilians to date. The ratio of civilian deaths to military deaths has been exceptionally low, below 10%, whereas in Iraq or Afghanistan it was of the order of 80%-90%. A lot of these civilian casualties were a result of Ukrainian troops operating from civilian buildings including schools and hospitals as a modus operandi, a practice that was condemned by Amnesty International:
Quote:

Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians

Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm's way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.

Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.

"We have documented a pattern of Ukrainian forces putting civilians at risk and violating the laws of war when they operate in populated areas," said Agns Callamard, Amnesty International's Secretary General.

"Being in a defensive position does not exempt the Ukrainian military from respecting international humanitarian law."


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
Cal88
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Haloski said:

Cal88 said:

Haloski said:

oski003 said:

Haloski said:

Cal88 said:


This is really disgusting, the Kiev regime actually killed one of their own official negotiators, Denys Kiryeev, gunning him down in the street mafia-style in broad daylight, because they deemed him too soft on Russia.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-reports-claim-negotiator-shot-for-treason-officials-say-he-died-in-intel-op/


That's absolutely awful.

Saint Putin, thank goodness, would never do such a thing. His nonawfulness knows no bounds as he showers humanity with his grace.

These people all suck. It's not good to cheerlead for any of them.


Putin certainly would punish those who undermine him. However, we are talking about NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks unwillingness to make peace. Whether or not Putin would assassinate someone, such as a rogue general, is irrelevant.


It's ok for you to admit that Putin is a giant piece of **** while still opposing the NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks.

Putin has absolutely used the positions he's found himself in to enrich himself at the expense of others to the tune of a sum that makes Zelensky and many in the MIC stateside look like chumps. He's absolutely silenced and harmed people that not only undermined him, but merely voiced opposition to him. It's not a singular instance of a guy rebelling and having his plane shot down, so let's not pretend that it's the only example or that all others are similar.

Thing is, I can say that so many of the people involved in our system are absolutely reprehensible sleazebags, just like Putin.

We all know it to be true, but you'd never say it of Putin and his cronies. It's ok. You're all hypocrites.

GO BEARS! BEAT AUBURN!

There is a tendency to designate the leader of the foreign enemy du jour a the lovechild of Hitler and Imelda Marcos, by default.

There is also the tendency for the general public to buy into this media characterization without any criticism or nuance.

There is also a lot of cultural conditioning when it comes to the framing of the designated enemy cultures - "Huns", "Gooks" in the Vietnam war era, assorted mideast Muslims since the Iran revolution, on to the Gulf wars, and now the reviving of the old Cold War archenemy, the damn Russkies, with the red China yellow peril not far behind.

Foreign policy is sold to the general public framed as a Hollywood narrative, with Hollywood villains. Putin is Palpatine, Zelensky Skywalker. This has been part of the imagery and myth-building of the Ukraine narrative, as well as the steady stream of Hollywood celebrities endorsing it.



The war is framed as a hero's journey battle between good and evil, and intensely personalized with the designated enemy leader taking on the full attributes of a Bond villain. This is where I tap out.

I don't bear any hatred towards Russia or the Russian people, to the contrary, I have a lot of respect for their rich cultural heritage, their history and contributions to world civilization, including liberating Europe from the Nazis. They lost 14 million soldiers, fighting them, vs 140,000 for the US, 100 times greater sacrifice. If the USSR did not fight Germany, the Wehrmacht would have easily conquered Britain and beat back any US attempt to land anywhere on the Continent.

The actions Putin undertook were in line with his country's geopolitical interests. That much is clearly understood by serious political analysts like John Mearsheimer, George Kennan, Zbig Brzezinski or even current US intel boss William Burns, all of whom have predicted Russia's current course of action, based on their well-known red lines, which US/NATO policies went out of their way to cross. If anything Putin is a prudent, calculating leader whose main domestic opposition are more aggressive parties (nationalists and communists). He's a moderate and somewhat of a liberal, on the Russian political spectrum, regarded as an indecisive, almost weak leader from both their hard right and left.

Ironically enough, Putin is also a pro-European character, being from St Petersburg (Russia's most European metropole), and having been stationed in East Germany. He speaks fluent German. He wanted Russia to be part of Europe, even wanted to join NATO, an aspiration which was rebuffed during the Clinton and Bush years. We won the Cold War, and Russia has no place in the victor's table. If anything, the leading interest groups in the US were pissed at Putin for having closed off their access to the vast Russian mineral and industrial assets.

Putin is very well-liked at home, not because the Russians are dumb serfs who are culturally conditioned to worship a supreme leader-dictator, but because much like Xi, he has delivered for his country, which without his intervention would have easily fallen apart and disintegrated much like the USSR did. Russians today are fairly well-off, with virtually no debt, no unemployment, low inflation, low crime, a social net, good infrastructure and thriving agricultural and industrial sectors.

My point here is that the world is a bit more complex than the narrative you are sold.




Sure, that's all great and wonderful and I'm sure you had a lot fun typing it, but he's still a giant piece of **** in many respects and you lack the ability to call him out on it.

It's probably possible to achieve one's goals without having people thrown off of buildings on the regs. You're selling yourself a narrative if you don't think that's the case.

All these people suck in many ways, and there's no need to justify **** that doesn't need to happen in order for them to be able to improve the lives of others. It's ok to admit it.

I eagerly anticipate your 43 paragraph response to this.

The people who suck the most are those who have relentlessly pushed for this war since 2014, and have actively scuttled an early settlement that could have saved 400,000 lives.
Haloski
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Cal88 said:

Haloski said:

Cal88 said:

Haloski said:

oski003 said:

Haloski said:

Cal88 said:


This is really disgusting, the Kiev regime actually killed one of their own official negotiators, Denys Kiryeev, gunning him down in the street mafia-style in broad daylight, because they deemed him too soft on Russia.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-reports-claim-negotiator-shot-for-treason-officials-say-he-died-in-intel-op/


That's absolutely awful.

Saint Putin, thank goodness, would never do such a thing. His nonawfulness knows no bounds as he showers humanity with his grace.

These people all suck. It's not good to cheerlead for any of them.


Putin certainly would punish those who undermine him. However, we are talking about NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks unwillingness to make peace. Whether or not Putin would assassinate someone, such as a rogue general, is irrelevant.


It's ok for you to admit that Putin is a giant piece of **** while still opposing the NATO/Ukraine/US Warhawks.

Putin has absolutely used the positions he's found himself in to enrich himself at the expense of others to the tune of a sum that makes Zelensky and many in the MIC stateside look like chumps. He's absolutely silenced and harmed people that not only undermined him, but merely voiced opposition to him. It's not a singular instance of a guy rebelling and having his plane shot down, so let's not pretend that it's the only example or that all others are similar.

Thing is, I can say that so many of the people involved in our system are absolutely reprehensible sleazebags, just like Putin.

We all know it to be true, but you'd never say it of Putin and his cronies. It's ok. You're all hypocrites.

GO BEARS! BEAT AUBURN!

There is a tendency to designate the leader of the foreign enemy du jour a the lovechild of Hitler and Imelda Marcos, by default.

There is also the tendency for the general public to buy into this media characterization without any criticism or nuance.

There is also a lot of cultural conditioning when it comes to the framing of the designated enemy cultures - "Huns", "Gooks" in the Vietnam war era, assorted mideast Muslims since the Iran revolution, on to the Gulf wars, and now the reviving of the old Cold War archenemy, the damn Russkies, with the red China yellow peril not far behind.

Foreign policy is sold to the general public framed as a Hollywood narrative, with Hollywood villains. Putin is Palpatine, Zelensky Skywalker. This has been part of the imagery and myth-building of the Ukraine narrative, as well as the steady stream of Hollywood celebrities endorsing it.



The war is framed as a hero's journey battle between good and evil, and intensely personalized with the designated enemy leader taking on the full attributes of a Bond villain. This is where I tap out.

I don't bear any hatred towards Russia or the Russian people, to the contrary, I have a lot of respect for their rich cultural heritage, their history and contributions to world civilization, including liberating Europe from the Nazis. They lost 14 million soldiers, fighting them, vs 140,000 for the US, 100 times greater sacrifice. If the USSR did not fight Germany, the Wehrmacht would have easily conquered Britain and beat back any US attempt to land anywhere on the Continent.

The actions Putin undertook were in line with his country's geopolitical interests. That much is clearly understood by serious political analysts like John Mearsheimer, George Kennan, Zbig Brzezinski or even current US intel boss William Burns, all of whom have predicted Russia's current course of action, based on their well-known red lines, which US/NATO policies went out of their way to cross. If anything Putin is a prudent, calculating leader whose main domestic opposition are more aggressive parties (nationalists and communists). He's a moderate and somewhat of a liberal, on the Russian political spectrum, regarded as an indecisive, almost weak leader from both their hard right and left.

Ironically enough, Putin is also a pro-European character, being from St Petersburg (Russia's most European metropole), and having been stationed in East Germany. He speaks fluent German. He wanted Russia to be part of Europe, even wanted to join NATO, an aspiration which was rebuffed during the Clinton and Bush years. We won the Cold War, and Russia has no place in the victor's table. If anything, the leading interest groups in the US were pissed at Putin for having closed off their access to the vast Russian mineral and industrial assets.

Putin is very well-liked at home, not because the Russians are dumb serfs who are culturally conditioned to worship a supreme leader-dictator, but because much like Xi, he has delivered for his country, which without his intervention would have easily fallen apart and disintegrated much like the USSR did. Russians today are fairly well-off, with virtually no debt, no unemployment, low inflation, low crime, a social net, good infrastructure and thriving agricultural and industrial sectors.

My point here is that the world is a bit more complex than the narrative you are sold.




Sure, that's all great and wonderful and I'm sure you had a lot fun typing it, but he's still a giant piece of **** in many respects and you lack the ability to call him out on it.

It's probably possible to achieve one's goals without having people thrown off of buildings on the regs. You're selling yourself a narrative if you don't think that's the case.

All these people suck in many ways, and there's no need to justify **** that doesn't need to happen in order for them to be able to improve the lives of others. It's ok to admit it.

I eagerly anticipate your 43 paragraph response to this.

The people who suck the most are those who have relentlessly pushed for this war since 2014, and have actively scuttled an early settlement that could have saved 400,000 lives.


I already have noted that I think they all suck.

You simply won't do that.

Something in you won't allow you to criticize Putin. He sucks. He really sucks.

Go ahead and do it. Free yourself from your self imposed mind prison! YOU CAN DO IT.
bearister
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Ukraine says Black Sea gas, oil platforms recaptured from Russian control | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/12/ukraine-says-black-sea-gas-and-oil-platforms-recaptured-from-russia-control



The lads look they are geared up in the Navy SEAL/Delta Force apparel collection introduced this fall. One can only assume the Russians will be sporting the latest North Korean/Persian fashions and accessories.

Putin calls Trump legal cases 'politically motivated persecution' | Vladimir Putin News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/12/case-against-donald-trump-shows-rottenness-of-us-political-system-putin

"During his four years in office, Trump repeatedly praised his good relations with Putin and claimed more recently he could resolve the Ukraine war in a matter of days if he regains the presidency.

"We hear Mr Trump say he will solve pressing problems in a few days, including the Ukrainian crisis. Well, this cannot but bring happiness. This is good," Putin said."*

*Is there anyone who seriously believes tRump won't won't "win" the 2024 Election and be reinstalled as POTUS?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Zippergate
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bearister said:



*Is there anyone who seriously believes tRump won't won't "win" the 2024 Election and be reinstalled as POTUS?

Hmm. Let's see. Russia invaded during both Obama's first term and third term but not Trump's intervening term. Probably nothing.

As for the last bit, the irony here is astounding. The Russia hoax was completely dismantled some time ago which is why they've moved on to tax returns, Stormy Daniels, classified documents, Jan 6 etc etc. Don't be this guy. And he can't win in 2024 because he won't be allowed to.
Cal88
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Haloski said:

Cal88 said:

Haloski said:







Sure, that's all great and wonderful and I'm sure you had a lot fun typing it, but he's still a giant piece of **** in many respects and you lack the ability to call him out on it.

It's probably possible to achieve one's goals without having people thrown off of buildings on the regs. You're selling yourself a narrative if you don't think that's the case.

All these people suck in many ways, and there's no need to justify **** that doesn't need to happen in order for them to be able to improve the lives of others. It's ok to admit it.

I eagerly anticipate your 43 paragraph response to this.

The people who suck the most are those who have relentlessly pushed for this war since 2014, and have actively scuttled an early settlement that could have saved 400,000 lives.


I already have noted that I think they all suck.

You simply won't do that.

Something in you won't allow you to criticize Putin. He sucks. He really sucks.

Go ahead and do it. Free yourself from your self imposed mind prison! YOU CAN DO IT.

They all suck in proportion of their degree of responsibility in this war, and their efforts in prolonging it. Putin sucks insofar as he is a cold bureaucrat politician, but he is less responsible for this war than those who have planned it. That much has been stated by Mearsheimer and many other serious US policy analysts including top US intel leader Burns:


bearister
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"And he can't win in 2024 because he won't be allowed to."
I like you're thinking on that point and I hope you are rightโ€ฆ..and the government will handle any subsequent tRump directed rebellion a bit different this go round.

"The Russia hoax was completely dismantled some time ago which is why they've moved on to tax returns, Stormy Daniels, classified documents, Jan 6 etc etc."

I guess a few juries will decide whether those other matters you list are also hoaxes or felonies carrying prison sentences (a civil jury has already decided allegations that tRump is a sexual abuser were not a hoax).

With regard to the "Russian Hoax":


"Yet the idea that the Mueller report exposed Russiagate as a "hoax" rests on a false binary: either Trump and/or his associates actively conspired with Russia, or Trump has been the victim of a "Russia, Russia, Russia" witch hunt. But there is also another scenario: that Trump ran as a Russia-friendly candidate, Russia interfered in the election to help Trump (as the Mueller report very clearly states), and Trump and his cronies were fine with that. And that scenario is not a hoax or a concoction of the Steele dossierโ€ฆ.

Members of the news media were given leaked versions of Steele's work in mid-to-late September 2019, but articles exploring the Trump-Russia romance had started appearing in the Washington Post , Slate, and other publications well before that, in June and July. Based on what? Lots of things: Trump's praise for Putin, the Kremlin-controlled Russian media's Trump lovefest, the hacking of Democratic National Committee servers by Russian agents, Trump's financial connections to Russia, and the presence of, as Franklin Foer put in in Slate, "advisers and operatives" in Trump's inner circle "who have long careers advancing the interests of the Kremlin." Add to this the fact that the one foreign policy-related change Trump's team wanted in the Republican party platform was the removal of the call for arming Ukraineโ€ฆโ€ฆ

Let's not forget, either, how Trump behaved after his victory notably, the revelation in May 2017 that he bragged about firing FBI director James Comey in a White House chat with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian ambassador Sergei Kislyak, calling Comey "a real nut job" and saying that the pressure he had faced over the Russia story was now "taken off." Is there any scenario in which such behavior by the president of the United States would not raise disturbing questions?

โ€ฆ. A Russian asset? No. An American president who was perfectly fine with an unfriendly authoritarian regime illegally interfering in a U.S. presidential election to assist him by stealing political documents from his opponent? Who talked about "America first" but happily sided with an anti-American strongman when it served his interests and his ego? Absolutely. Whatever the Durham report ultimately says about the FBI investigation, it won't change those fundamental facts."

https://www.cato.org/commentary/no-russiagate-wasnt-hoax-team-trump-claims-it-was
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Zippergate
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Quote:



โ€ฆ. A Russian asset? No. An American president who was perfectly fine with an unfriendly authoritarian regime illegally interfering in a U.S. presidential election to assist him by stealing political documents from his opponent? Who talked about "America first" but happily sided with an anti-American strongman when it served his interests and his ego? Absolutely. Whatever the Durham report ultimately says about the FBI investigation, it won't change those fundamental facts."

https://www.cato.org/commentary/no-russiagate-wasnt-hoax-team-trump-claims-it-was
Well, there it is. He's not a Russian asset and the Russians didn't get him elected but election interference is really bad (except, of course, when the CIA does it because we have only peaceful, positive intentions). But Russia is evil, full stop, and Trump isn't hard enough on Russia. Therefore....Obama 3! Blinken to the rescue. How is that working out for freedom, democracy, and human flourishing? Oh right, I forgot, it's all about degrading our enemy. Mission accomplished, I'm sure.
dajo9
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At what age did you find yourself siding with Russia over America and what would young zippergate think?
oski003
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dajo9 said:

At what age did you find yourself siding with Russia over America and what would young zippergate think?

You are a good government lemming. Keep it up!
bearister
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From a year ago. Fair and Balanced? What say you?

Putin's five fatal mistakes in Ukraine | Russia-Ukraine war | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/10/6/putins-five-arrogant-mistakes
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Cal88
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dajo9 said:

At what age did you find yourself siding with Russia over America and what would young zippergate think?

We've always been at war with Eurasia.
Unit2Sucks
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bearister said:

From a year ago. Fair and Balanced? What say you?

Putin's five fatal mistakes in Ukraine | Russia-Ukraine war | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/10/6/putins-five-arrogant-mistakes
This is certainly an opinion, but I don't know how closely it maps to Putin's subjective thoughts.

The author mentions that Putin may have thought that he would essentially be greeted as a liberator, but he knew that wasn't true. Putin wasn't dumb enough to believe that Ukraine welcomed his genocide and conquering. He spent decades corrupting Ukraine and trying to bear hug it closer and knew very well how he was perceived. He didn't care about any of that but had a number of reasons to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty. First there is Putin's long-standing belief (which is parroted or shared by his propagandists, including Putin88) that Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent country and there is no such thing as Ukrainian people because blah blah blah made up reasons. Next you have the Black Sea stuff. Add the fact that Ukraine has a number of natural resources that allow them to compete with Russia. Add the fact that Ukraine was on a very slow march toward a real democracy which would make it attractive to Russians who suffer under Putin's corrupt kleptocratic autocracy. And then of course there is Putin's revanchism.

He and his oligarchs installed Yanukovych (with a big assist from Paul Manafort) who was extremely unpopular. Interesting note about the dude - he tried (with a huge assist from Russia) to steal the 2004 election but the supreme court reversed the election due to his fraud. After that Oleg Deripaska hired Manafort to help Yanuk won and he won on a platform of westernization and normalization with the EU. He became extremely unpopular when he was made by the Russian oligarchs to move closer to Russia (rejecting a relationship with EU to partner with Russia) which ultimately led to his ouster in 2014 (with support from the US, of course). The shills love to talk about the US influence while ignoring the massive Russian influence to that point. No surprise there. And the kicker is that Putin wants to install Yanuk as the new leader of "Ukraine" after Putin takes over.

The author also referenced the October 2022 troop mobilization which is likely to be repeated in the next month or two. You know how you can tell the shills are lying through their nose when they tell you the war is going well for Russia and that they aren't suffering from mass casualties? Because Russia is doing its best to mass more and more troops and still has an obvious troop shortage. Success for Russia 600 days into this war wouldn't look like a mobilization of 400k more troops to replace the 25k or whatever ridiculously small made up number the shills pretends Russia's losses are limited to. There is plenty of evidence that Russia doesn't have enough troops to do what it wants in Ukraine. It has been laterally redeploying forces along the front because it has no troops to spare. I think we all know that the propagandists will make some lame claim supported by MacDoofus but the proof is in the pudding. Just like Russia wouldn't be begging for 50 year old artillery from NK if it had enough, it wouldn't be waging war the way it currently is if it had enough battle-ready troops to do it better. What we see is a reflection of Russia's weakness, not strength.






And a bonus tweet for those who don't tire of debunking Russian war lies.





dajo9
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Raise your hand if you're on team Kim Jong Un. Don't be shy. Be honest.
movielover
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Depending on the source, Russia has grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees. Many felt kinship, a shared culture and language. Some simply wanted to survive. So obviously, millions felt welcome.

I guess as time passes, when this SMO ends, we may see some return to Ukraine.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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movielover said:

Depending on the source, Russia gas grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees.
How many refugees has Russian oil grown by?
BearHunter
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dajo9 said:

Raise your hand if you're on team Kim Jong Un. Don't be shy. Be honest.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Raise your hand if you're on team Kim Jong Un. Don't be shy. Be honest.

More about Asians by Ukraine's progressive leaders:



Quote:

"The people of India and China, Asians in general, have less intellectual capacity, less humanity, less culture than we--Ukrainians--do."

"Russians are Asians, and the Asians have way inferior and way less culture than us, they have less humanity too, that's our key difference from the Russians."

--Oleksiy Danilov, head of the Defense Council of Ukraine

Quote:

"What's wrong with India, China, and so forth? The problem is that they are not analyzing the consequences of their steps, these countries have weak intellectual potential, unfortunately," Podolyak. top advisor to Zelensky.
Cal88
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On the lighter side in a heavy topic - go Lada go.

Cal88
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

movielover said:

Depending on the source, Russia gas grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees.
How many refugees has Russian oil grown by?

dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

movielover said:

Depending on the source, Russia gas grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees.
How many refugees has Russian oil grown by?




Is there a dictator you don't align with?



Cal88
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

movielover said:

Depending on the source, Russia gas grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees.
How many refugees has Russian oil grown by?




Is there a dictator you don't align with?

Biden.
dajo9
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

movielover said:

Depending on the source, Russia gas grown by 2 to 5 Million (The New Yorker) refugees.
How many refugees has Russian oil grown by?




Is there a dictator you don't align with?






Worldwide oligarchic autocracy is their goal. The fight of our era. The money and power is on their side.
Cal88
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900 bases all over the world, including in places like Syria, a country that we have occupied for a decade now. OK not the whole country, just the third of that country with all the oil. We're taking the oil, but it is for good, not evil.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

900 bases all over the world, including in places like Syria, a country that we have occupied for a decade now. OK not the whole country, just the third of that country with all the oil. We're taking the oil, but it is for good, not evil.
That is not Syrian oil. It belongs to the Kurds. Interesting backstory though. Trump declared the U.S. would stay "for the oil" and proceeded to a allow a secret contract with a U.S. company that had military and Republican ties. That U.S. corrupt, oligarchy company that Trump allowed and protected with the U.S. military, proceeded to loot the oil. Biden ended that arrangement. Of course, who knows what is happening with oil in that area, but if the Kurds have complaints, I'd be willing to listen.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/keeping-oil-syria-trump-considered-war-crime/story?id=66589757
https://syrianobserver.com/features/66477/biden-changes-course-in-northeastern-syria-ending-trumps-delta-crescent-energy-deal.html
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

900 bases all over the world, including in places like Syria, a country that we have occupied for a decade now. OK not the whole country, just the third of that country with all the oil. We're taking the oil, but it is for good, not evil.
That is not Syrian oil. It belongs to the Kurds. Interesting backstory though. Trump declared the U.S. would stay "for the oil" and proceeded to a allow a secret contract with a U.S. company that had military and Republican ties. That U.S. corrupt, oligarchy company that Trump allowed and protected with the U.S. military, proceeded to loot the oil. Biden ended that arrangement. Of course, who knows what is happening with oil in that area, but if the Kurds have complaints, I'd be willing to listen.

The occupation of Syria and the theft of its oil precedes the Trump administration, it was already in place under Obama. Trump, to his credit, was very transparent about "taking the oil", and he also tried to pull out from Syria, or at the very least reduce considerably US military footprint. The MIC lied to him, reporting a far smaller presence than the actual number, an act of treason.

The oil doesn't belong to "the Kurds", it belongs to Syria, a country whose borders have been in place for over 100 years. The US carpet bombed with B-52s major cities in the north of Syria like Raqqa, which were mostly Syrian Arab Christian and Muslim, killing thousands of civilians, ethnically cleansing the region.

US occupation of Syria, the theft of its oil and wheat and the stringent economic sanctions imposed on that country have resulted in great suffering among their population and continued migration to Europe. The US is effectively preventing Syria from rebuilding, and its refugees from returning home. Syria was well-off before the color revolution and civil war were pushed onto that country.

We have no right to gerrymander countries halfway around the world and to prop up minorities against majorities in classic divide and conquer colonial schemes. The main victims in these cold geopolitical plays end up being these minorities, we've seen it in Vietnam with the Hmongs and mountain people, who collaborated with the US and ended up getting slaughtered after we left.
bearister
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Ukraine 'destroys Russian air defence system' in Crimea



https://mol.im/a/12518137
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