The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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4:34a, 1/19/24
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[url=https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc][/url]Maria Mateiciuc
[url=https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc][/url]@MariaMateiciuc
I just got back from Ukraine, where I was visiting some friends.[url=https://twitter.com/MariaMateiciuc][/url]

Everything we have heard about what's happening in Ukraine is a lie.

The reality is darker, bleaker, and unequivocally hopeless. There is no such thing as Ukraine "winning" this war.

- By their estimates, they have lost over one million of their sons, fathers and husbands; an entire generation is gone.
- Even in the Southwest, where the anti-Russian sentiment is long-standing, citizens are reluctant or straight-up scared to publicly criticize Zelensky; they will go to jail.
- In every village and town, the streets, shops, and restaurants are mostly absent of men.
- The few men who remain are terrified of leaving their homes for fear of being kidnapped into conscription. Some have resorted to begging friends to break their legs to avoid service.
- Army search parties take place early in the morning, when men leave their homes to go to work. They ambush and kidnap them off the streets and within 3-4 hours they get listed in the army and taken away straight to the front lines with minimal or no training at all; it is "a death sentence."
- It's getting worse every day. Where I was staying, a dentist had just been taken by security forces on his way to work, leaving behind two small children. Every day, 3-5 dead bodies keep arriving from the front lines.
- Mothers and wives fight tooth and nail with the armed forces, beg and plead not to have their men taken away. They try bribing, which sometimes works, but most of the time they are met with physical violence and death threats.
- The territory celebrated as having been "won back" from Russia has been reduced to rubble and is uninhabitable. Regardless, there is no one left to live there and displaced families will likely never return.
- They see the way the war has been reported, at home and abroad. It's a "joke" and "propaganda." They say: "Look around: is this winning?".
- Worse, some have been hoaxed into believing that once Ukrainians forces are exhausted, American soldiers will come in to replace them and "win the war".

There is no ambiguity in these people. The war was for nothing - a travesty. The outcome always was, and is, clear. The people are hopeless, utterly destroyed, and living in an unending nightmare.

They are pleading for an end, any end - most likely the same "peace" that could have been achieved two years ago. In their minds, they have already lost, for their sons, fathers and husbands are gone, and their country has been destroyed. There is no "victory" that can change that.

Make no mistake, they are angry with Putin. But they are also angry with Zelensky and the West. They have lost everything, worst of all, hope and faith, and cannot comprehend why Zelenky wishes to continue the current trajectory, the one of human devastation.

I didn't witness the war; but what I saw was absolutely heart-breaking.

Shame on the people, regardless of their intentions, who have supported this war. And shame on the media for continuing to lie about it."
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Cal88
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10:39a, 1/19/24
Along with the situation on the front where Russia has had the upper hand for the last year plus, the MSM is now also strating to acknowledge that Russia is also winning the economic and diplomatic war:

How Russia Won the Sanctions War With the West
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-won-sanctions-war-west-opinion-1861645#:~:text=It%20is%20now%20abundantly%20clear,the%20third%20quarter%20of%202023.

Quote:
It is now abundantly clear that Russia has defeated the Western sanctions regime that was intended to cripple its economy and force its withdrawal from Ukraine. Instead of collapsing, the Russian economy is growing rapidly. Russia's GDP grew by an impressive 5.5 percent in the third quarter of 2023. Final figures for the year are not yet in, but Russian GDP growth for all of 2023 should exceed 3 percent.

Ironically, the Russians are doing rather better than those who imposed sanctions on them. In 2023, the U.S. economy grew by 2.4 percent while the German economy shrank, and the EU as a whole grew by less than 1 percent. Instead of withdrawing from Ukraine, Russia has increased the size of its invasion force from 190,000 troops in February 2022 to more than 600,000 today.

Between February 2022 and February 2023, Western countries imposed on Russia the most extensive sanctions regime seen since World War II. In all, several thousand sanctions on Russian individuals, businesses, and government institutions caused only a mild recession in 2022 which the Russians quickly turned around. How did they do it? Very simply. The Russians have a lot of gold, grain, oil, and friends, all of which they used effectively to defeat the sanctions. Any realistic war game could have easily predicted all of this.

NATO's wonder-weapons like HIMARS and Leopard tanks failed to fuel an effective Ukrainian counter-offensive. Diplomacy failed to isolate Russia, which is busy reviewing numerous applications to join it in the BRICS organization. Economic warfare has been a bust...

Sanctions are cheap and easy to impose, but they seldom work. While they make it look like you are doing something meaningful, they are, in fact, often little more than economic virtue signaling. Economic sanctions have certainly not changed the outcome in Ukraine. Kyiv is out of men, out of money, out of artillery shells and out of time. The West should stop giving money to a man with a hole in his pocket.


Thank you Newsweek Magazine for acknowledging that the realists were right all along.

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Unit2Sucks
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11:08a, 1/19/24
Even pro Kremlin propagandists are acknowledging how poorly Putin's military is performing.

Rybar has to admit that ~100 troops are holding off thousands of Russian mobiks in Krynki.



Since Russia is having so much trouble conning enough citizens to sacrifice themselves in Ukraine, they've been importing. But the imports eventually figure it out.



Make no mistake though, people with options would rather be in the US than in Russia. Putin is only accelerating it. More addition by subtraction?




And now UFA's drones have made it to St Petersburg. I'm sure this is just making Russia stronger.





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Zippergate
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:39a, 1/19/24
Economic warfare has been a bust...


Sanctions are cheap and easy to impose, but they seldom work. While they make it look like you are doing something meaningful, they are, in fact, often little more than economic virtue signaling. Economic sanctions have certainly not changed the outcome in Ukraine. Kyiv is out of men, out of money, out of artillery shells and out of time. The West should stop giving money to a man with a hole in his pocket.

It's much worse than that. The US has essentially declared economic war on Russia and used its control over SWIFT and the US dollar reserve currency status to turn the screws on Russia. Other countries now view their access to the US-controlled system as a potentially catastrophic liability and are looking for work arounds to reduce their dependence. Just look at all the announcements from the BRICS+ countries regarding local currency trade deals. This is a very negative trend for US power and imperils US prosperity which is completely dependent on the dollar's status as the world's currency. Ukraine has been a military AND economic failure.
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calbear93
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:44a, 1/19/24
Cal88 said:
Along with the situation on the front where Russia has had the upper hand for the last year plus, the MSM is now also strating to acknowledge that Russia is also winning the economic and diplomatic war:

How Russia Won the Sanctions War With the West
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-won-sanctions-war-west-opinion-1861645#:~:text=It%20is%20now%20abundantly%20clear,the%20third%20quarter%20of%202023.

Quote:
It is now abundantly clear that Russia has defeated the Western sanctions regime that was intended to cripple its economy and force its withdrawal from Ukraine. Instead of collapsing, the Russian economy is growing rapidly. Russia's GDP grew by an impressive 5.5 percent in the third quarter of 2023. Final figures for the year are not yet in, but Russian GDP growth for all of 2023 should exceed 3 percent.

Ironically, the Russians are doing rather better than those who imposed sanctions on them. In 2023, the U.S. economy grew by 2.4 percent while the German economy shrank, and the EU as a whole grew by less than 1 percent. Instead of withdrawing from Ukraine, Russia has increased the size of its invasion force from 190,000 troops in February 2022 to more than 600,000 today.

Between February 2022 and February 2023, Western countries imposed on Russia the most extensive sanctions regime seen since World War II. In all, several thousand sanctions on Russian individuals, businesses, and government institutions caused only a mild recession in 2022 which the Russians quickly turned around. How did they do it? Very simply. The Russians have a lot of gold, grain, oil, and friends, all of which they used effectively to defeat the sanctions. Any realistic war game could have easily predicted all of this.

NATO's wonder-weapons like HIMARS and Leopard tanks failed to fuel an effective Ukrainian counter-offensive. Diplomacy failed to isolate Russia, which is busy reviewing numerous applications to join it in the BRICS organization. Economic warfare has been a bust...

Sanctions are cheap and easy to impose, but they seldom work. While they make it look like you are doing something meaningful, they are, in fact, often little more than economic virtue signaling. Economic sanctions have certainly not changed the outcome in Ukraine. Kyiv is out of men, out of money, out of artillery shells and out of time. The West should stop giving money to a man with a hole in his pocket.


Thank you Newsweek Magazine for acknowledging that the realists were right all along.

You sound like a globalist and someone in favor of free trade without tariffs or restrictions.

Is that right? Isolationism doesn't work?
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Cal88
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In reply to calbear93 • 12:35p, 1/19/24
calbear93 said:
Cal88 said:
Along with the situation on the front where Russia has had the upper hand for the last year plus, the MSM is now also strating to acknowledge that Russia is also winning the economic and diplomatic war:

How Russia Won the Sanctions War With the West
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-won-sanctions-war-west-opinion-1861645#:~:text=It%20is%20now%20abundantly%20clear,the%20third%20quarter%20of%202023.

Quote:
It is now abundantly clear that Russia has defeated the Western sanctions regime that was intended to cripple its economy and force its withdrawal from Ukraine. Instead of collapsing, the Russian economy is growing rapidly. Russia's GDP grew by an impressive 5.5 percent in the third quarter of 2023. Final figures for the year are not yet in, but Russian GDP growth for all of 2023 should exceed 3 percent.

Ironically, the Russians are doing rather better than those who imposed sanctions on them. In 2023, the U.S. economy grew by 2.4 percent while the German economy shrank, and the EU as a whole grew by less than 1 percent. Instead of withdrawing from Ukraine, Russia has increased the size of its invasion force from 190,000 troops in February 2022 to more than 600,000 today.

Between February 2022 and February 2023, Western countries imposed on Russia the most extensive sanctions regime seen since World War II. In all, several thousand sanctions on Russian individuals, businesses, and government institutions caused only a mild recession in 2022 which the Russians quickly turned around. How did they do it? Very simply. The Russians have a lot of gold, grain, oil, and friends, all of which they used effectively to defeat the sanctions. Any realistic war game could have easily predicted all of this.

NATO's wonder-weapons like HIMARS and Leopard tanks failed to fuel an effective Ukrainian counter-offensive. Diplomacy failed to isolate Russia, which is busy reviewing numerous applications to join it in the BRICS organization. Economic warfare has been a bust...

Sanctions are cheap and easy to impose, but they seldom work. While they make it look like you are doing something meaningful, they are, in fact, often little more than economic virtue signaling. Economic sanctions have certainly not changed the outcome in Ukraine. Kyiv is out of men, out of money, out of artillery shells and out of time. The West should stop giving money to a man with a hole in his pocket.


Thank you Newsweek Magazine for acknowledging that the realists were right all along.

You sound like a globalist and someone in favor of free trade without tariffs or restrictions.

Is that right? Isolationism doesn't work?

This is a bad read. In fact, these kinds of sanctions work exactly like "protectionism" or "isolationism". Russia has benefitted from them the same way Japan or S Korea benefitted from them in their early stages of post-war industrialization, they've allowed their domestic auto, steel, consumer electronics industries to mature.

For instance, Russia now has a burgeoning domestic chip industry, and their civil aviation program, which also was on the brink, is now being revived, with mass homegrown production of passengers jet and high bypass ratio jet engines set this decade. Russia will have a large domestic and foreign market for those passenger jets, which will undercut the Boeing-Airbus duopoly as their input costs (labor, energy, metals etc) and their currency are lower.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/as-alternative-to-western-aircraft-russia-test-flies-prototype-widebody-passenger-plane/articleshow/105133305.cms?from=mdr
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/putin-russia-plane-aircraft
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calbear93
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:39p, 1/19/24
Cal88 said:
calbear93 said:
Cal88 said:
Along with the situation on the front where Russia has had the upper hand for the last year plus, the MSM is now also strating to acknowledge that Russia is also winning the economic and diplomatic war:

How Russia Won the Sanctions War With the West
https://www.newsweek.com/how-russia-won-sanctions-war-west-opinion-1861645#:~:text=It%20is%20now%20abundantly%20clear,the%20third%20quarter%20of%202023.

Quote:
It is now abundantly clear that Russia has defeated the Western sanctions regime that was intended to cripple its economy and force its withdrawal from Ukraine. Instead of collapsing, the Russian economy is growing rapidly. Russia's GDP grew by an impressive 5.5 percent in the third quarter of 2023. Final figures for the year are not yet in, but Russian GDP growth for all of 2023 should exceed 3 percent.

Ironically, the Russians are doing rather better than those who imposed sanctions on them. In 2023, the U.S. economy grew by 2.4 percent while the German economy shrank, and the EU as a whole grew by less than 1 percent. Instead of withdrawing from Ukraine, Russia has increased the size of its invasion force from 190,000 troops in February 2022 to more than 600,000 today.

Between February 2022 and February 2023, Western countries imposed on Russia the most extensive sanctions regime seen since World War II. In all, several thousand sanctions on Russian individuals, businesses, and government institutions caused only a mild recession in 2022 which the Russians quickly turned around. How did they do it? Very simply. The Russians have a lot of gold, grain, oil, and friends, all of which they used effectively to defeat the sanctions. Any realistic war game could have easily predicted all of this.

NATO's wonder-weapons like HIMARS and Leopard tanks failed to fuel an effective Ukrainian counter-offensive. Diplomacy failed to isolate Russia, which is busy reviewing numerous applications to join it in the BRICS organization. Economic warfare has been a bust...

Sanctions are cheap and easy to impose, but they seldom work. While they make it look like you are doing something meaningful, they are, in fact, often little more than economic virtue signaling. Economic sanctions have certainly not changed the outcome in Ukraine. Kyiv is out of men, out of money, out of artillery shells and out of time. The West should stop giving money to a man with a hole in his pocket.


Thank you Newsweek Magazine for acknowledging that the realists were right all along.

You sound like a globalist and someone in favor of free trade without tariffs or restrictions.

Is that right? Isolationism doesn't work?

This is a bad read. In fact, these kinds of sanctions work exactly like "protectionism" or "isolationism". Russia has benefitted from them the same way Japan or S Korea benefitted from them in their early stages of post-war industrialization, they've allowed their domestic auto, steel, consumer electronics industries to mature.

For instance, Russia now has a burgeoning domestic chip industry, and their civil aviation program, which also was on the brink, is now being revived, with mass homegrown production of passengers jet and high bypass ratio jet engines set this decade. Russia will have a large domestic and foreign market for those passenger jets, which will undercut the Boeing-Airbus duopoly as their input costs (labor, energy, metals etc) and their currency are lower.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/as-alternative-to-western-aircraft-russia-test-flies-prototype-widebody-passenger-plane/articleshow/105133305.cms?from=mdr
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/putin-russia-plane-aircraft
That was my point. Since you are against sanctions and against reducing global trade, you are for free trade instead of some isolationist attitude that we need high tariffs to protect our domestic manufacturing. Just so you know, I am a firm believer that free global trade (assuming both parties are engaging in free trade) increases wealth and standard of living for both parties. Tariffs are like sanctions that hurt our economy.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 2:01p, 1/19/24
So Biden / Sullivan / State Dept (CIA) sanctions backfired.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to calbear93 • 2:15p, 1/19/24
calbear93 said:

That was my point. Since you are against sanctions and against reducing global trade, you are for free trade instead of some isolationist attitude that we need high tariffs to protect our domestic manufacturing. Just so you know, I am a firm believer that free global trade (assuming both parties are engaging in free trade) increases wealth and standard of living for both parties. Tariffs are like sanctions that hurt our economy.
What you are saying is directionally true, but it's not strictly true. Targeted sanctions can lead to asymmetric winners and losers. As I'm sure you are aware, US energy exports have been climbing and the EU has been responsible for a lot of that growth.

Russia's share of EU energy decreased from 14.5% to 6.5% between Q3 2022 and Q3 2023. The value of the imports overall massively decreased due to lower prices, but volume barely changed (down 3%). The US and Norway have been able to fill the gap left by Russian sanctions.

The US is now the largest LNG exporter in the world and has become the third largest oil exporter.

Sanctions are never as effective as people want them to be. They didn't work for Trump with Iran (which has become even more reckless and distrustful of the US after Trump unilaterally pulled out) and they haven't been as effective as we wanted against Russia, although they have had more impact than Russia will care to admit. A number of their industries have been hamstrung and they've had to do quite a bit of work to maneuver around sanctions, when they have been able to do so.

Russia isn't a particularly attractive trading partner for the US so the sanctions haven't hurt us at all. If Russia had any products we needed (they mainly export energy) or were an attractive destination for our exports (also not true, they are much smaller than people would realize - about equivalent to Sweden or Austria) than it might be a different story.
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calbear93
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 2:55p, 1/19/24
Unit2Sucks said:
calbear93 said:

That was my point. Since you are against sanctions and against reducing global trade, you are for free trade instead of some isolationist attitude that we need high tariffs to protect our domestic manufacturing. Just so you know, I am a firm believer that free global trade (assuming both parties are engaging in free trade) increases wealth and standard of living for both parties. Tariffs are like sanctions that hurt our economy.
What you are saying is directionally true, but it's not strictly true. Targeted sanctions can lead to asymmetric winners and losers. As I'm sure you are aware, US energy exports have been climbing and the EU has been responsible for a lot of that growth.

Russia's share of EU energy decreased from 14.5% to 6.5% between Q3 2022 and Q3 2023. The value of the imports overall massively decreased due to lower prices, but volume barely changed (down 3%). The US and Norway have been able to fill the gap left by Russian sanctions.

The US is now the largest LNG exporter in the world and has become the third largest oil exporter.

Sanctions are never as effective as people want them to be. They didn't work for Trump with Iran (which has become even more reckless and distrustful of the US after Trump unilaterally pulled out) and they haven't been as effective as we wanted against Russia, although they have had more impact than Russia will care to admit. A number of their industries have been hamstrung and they've had to do quite a bit of work to maneuver around sanctions, when they have been able to do so.

Russia isn't a particularly attractive trading partner for the US so the sanctions haven't hurt us at all. If Russia had any products we needed (they mainly export energy) or were an attractive destination for our exports (also not true, they are much smaller than people would realize - about equivalent to Sweden or Austria) than it might be a different story.


I agree.

Couple of points. Sanctions were meant to be punitive. Maybe not as harmful as some suggested but it was not a net positive for Russia. They are not out there begging for more sanctions. To mitigate, they had to bend the knees to China and Iran. And their consumers are getting inferior products.

Tariffs in isolation may create winners and losers but countries will retaliate, resulting in increased costs (effective tax) on consumers, reducing opportunity for best options (hard not to laugh at people who complain about monopolies and then promote isolationist behavior when both increase costs and limit options for consumers), and suppressing economies.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to calbear93 • 3:24p, 1/19/24
calbear93 said:
Unit2Sucks said:
calbear93 said:

That was my point. Since you are against sanctions and against reducing global trade, you are for free trade instead of some isolationist attitude that we need high tariffs to protect our domestic manufacturing. Just so you know, I am a firm believer that free global trade (assuming both parties are engaging in free trade) increases wealth and standard of living for both parties. Tariffs are like sanctions that hurt our economy.
What you are saying is directionally true, but it's not strictly true. Targeted sanctions can lead to asymmetric winners and losers. As I'm sure you are aware, US energy exports have been climbing and the EU has been responsible for a lot of that growth.

Russia's share of EU energy decreased from 14.5% to 6.5% between Q3 2022 and Q3 2023. The value of the imports overall massively decreased due to lower prices, but volume barely changed (down 3%). The US and Norway have been able to fill the gap left by Russian sanctions.

The US is now the largest LNG exporter in the world and has become the third largest oil exporter.

Sanctions are never as effective as people want them to be. They didn't work for Trump with Iran (which has become even more reckless and distrustful of the US after Trump unilaterally pulled out) and they haven't been as effective as we wanted against Russia, although they have had more impact than Russia will care to admit. A number of their industries have been hamstrung and they've had to do quite a bit of work to maneuver around sanctions, when they have been able to do so.

Russia isn't a particularly attractive trading partner for the US so the sanctions haven't hurt us at all. If Russia had any products we needed (they mainly export energy) or were an attractive destination for our exports (also not true, they are much smaller than people would realize - about equivalent to Sweden or Austria) than it might be a different story.


I agree.

Couple of points. Sanctions were meant to be punitive. Maybe not as harmful as some suggested but it was not a net positive for Russia. They are not out there begging for more sanctions. To mitigate, they had to bend the knees to China and Iran. And their consumers are getting inferior products.

Tariffs in isolation may create winners and losers but countries will retaliate, resulting in increased costs (effective tax) on consumers, reducing opportunity for best options (hard not to laugh at people who complain about monopolies and then promote isolationist behavior when both increase costs and limit options for consumers), and suppressing economies.
Agreed, it's also significantly hampered their industry. Their lack of ready access to semiconductors has hampered their war effort and made it harder to keep their industry running, including their military/aviation industries. They have been able to evade sanctions to some extent to get them chips, but it's not at the level or ease that they would have without sanctions. They still have no semiconductor industry and their "ambitious" goals include being able to match 20 year-old technology by the end of this decade, which they will probably fail to do.

The disingenuous Putinphiles who populate this thread will probably respond that Russia is stronger than ever and that their economy is going amazingly well because of sanctions, but the reality is that Russia is struggling and that this war has been a massive disaster for them (as well as their Ukrainian victims). War, particularly unprovoked war, is bad for everyone involved (except for the MIC and certain O&G players, of course).
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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:01p, 1/19/24
Unit2Sucks said:


Agreed, it's also significantly hampered their industry. Their lack of ready access to semiconductors has hampered their war effort and made it harder to keep their industry running, including their military/aviation industries. They have been able to evade sanctions to some extent to get them chips, but it's not at the level or ease that they would have without sanctions. They still have no semiconductor industry and their "ambitious" goals include being able to match 20 year-old technology by the end of this decade, which they will probably fail to do.

The disingenuous Putinphiles who populate this thread will probably respond that Russia is stronger than ever and that their economy is going amazingly well because of sanctions, but the reality is that Russia is struggling and that this war has been a massive disaster for them (as well as their Ukrainian victims). War, particularly unprovoked war, is bad for everyone involved (except for the MIC and certain O&G players, of course).

Those disingenuous putinophiles at Newsweek disagree with U2S.

They note that Russia has done well despite of sanctions. Furthermore, in many key areas where they have traditionally done well, such as civil aviation, sanctions have actually helped save and revive their industry.

The sanctions did not work because Russia exports vital products on the world markets, in large quantities - oil, wheat, uranium/processed nuclear fuel, fertilizers, metals, etc, and also because Russia has enough domestic know how and resources to replace imports and foreign-owned plants with their own industry. Consider for example the nuclear power market, which they dominate:

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphics/32014247.html
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 5:11p, 1/19/24
Governor Newsom plans to export high speed rail and tacos.
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bear2034
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In reply to movielover • 5:30p, 1/19/24
Is Bill Clinton still eating tacos in Mexico?
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dajo9
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In reply to bear2034 • 6:06p, 1/19/24
bear2034 said:
Is Bill Clinton still eating tacos in Mexico?


Another stunning display of intelligence
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bear2034
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In reply to dajo9 • 6:18p, 1/19/24
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
Is Bill Clinton still eating tacos in Mexico?
Another stunning display of intelligence


Sorry fam, one more.
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dajo9
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In reply to bear2034 • 6:27p, 1/19/24
bear2034 said:
dajo9 said:
bear2034 said:
Is Bill Clinton still eating tacos in Mexico?
Another stunning display of intelligence


Sorry fam, one more.


You are brilliant. Fiatlux is right. There is no room to just disregard people here as morons.
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Lets Go Brandon
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:03p, 1/20/24


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Cal88
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6:59a, 1/21/24
Ukraine bombs Sunday farmers market downtown Donetsk, the largest city in the Donbass. They've been doing this regularly, but this attack was bloodier than usual, 25 dead old ladies and shoppers.



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AunBear89
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In reply to Lets Go Brandon • 8:50a, 1/21/24
Nothing funnier than a clueless twit who has been dead wrong in public more times than we can remember, pretending he was right about anything.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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Cal88
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In reply to AunBear89 • 9:37a, 1/21/24
AunBear89 said:
Nothing funnier than a clueless twit who has been dead wrong in public more times than we can remember, pretending he was right about anything.

Can you point out where Genocide Joe was wrong on the subject of Ukraine, which is the only relevant one in this thread.

Better yet, could you even point Ukraine out on a map??

There are several candidates, but you are easily the worst poster on this board,> 90% of your contributions invariably fall under this pathetic pattern, with your post above being a prime example:

1- Aggro posting style, indicating a severe lack of emotional maturity
2- Zero content contribution to the thread
3- Unsolicited aggro-troll interventions
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AunBear89
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:55a, 1/21/24
I don't contribute because morons like you refuse to listen. You are all so wedded to your beliefs that you can't process counter information.

You righteous righties love to make this complaint, but then when someone presents evidence that refutes your beliefs, you clowns waive your hands and question the source and pretend your partisan sources are somehow unbiased.

Only a moron (like you) tries to have a conversation with another moron (like Yogi Sock Puppet and his many upvotes).

I know where Ukraine is. I know more about the world than most of your goose stepping conservative Friends, because I actually understand there IS a world beyond Amurica. I have lived in Europe. I have traveled extensively through two continents , and have visited two others. I speak three languages fluent enough to live in those countries, and a fourth well enough to visit and avoid the tourist spots. I married a woman from Europe and my children have dual citizenship as a result.

But continue with your propaganda, and your insults and your pathetic claims of mental superiority.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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Lets Go Brandon
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:36a, 1/21/24
Cal88 said:
AunBear89 said:
Nothing funnier than a clueless twit who has been dead wrong in public more times than we can remember, pretending he was right about anything.

Can you point out where Genocide Joe was wrong on the subject of Ukraine, which is the only relevant one in this thread.

Better yet, could you even point Ukraine out on a map??

There are several candidates, but you are easily the worst poster on this board,> 90% of your contributions invariably fall under this pathetic pattern, with your post above being a prime example:

1- Aggro posting style, indicating a severe lack of emotional maturity
2- Zero content contribution to the thread
3- Unsolicited aggro-troll interventions
If you gave unBear a U and a picture of a crane, he couldn't find Ukraine on a map


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movielover
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9:28p, 1/21/24
They've been killed off or escaped.

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cbbass1
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 12:28a, 1/22/24
Unit2Sucks said:
calbear93 said:

That was my point. Since you are against sanctions and against reducing global trade, you are for free trade instead of some isolationist attitude that we need high tariffs to protect our domestic manufacturing. Just so you know, I am a firm believer that free global trade (assuming both parties are engaging in free trade) increases wealth and standard of living for both parties. Tariffs are like sanctions that hurt our economy.
What you are saying is directionally true, but it's not strictly true. Targeted sanctions can lead to asymmetric winners and losers. As I'm sure you are aware, US energy exports have been climbing and the EU has been responsible for a lot of that growth.

Russia's share of EU energy decreased from 14.5% to 6.5% between Q3 2022 and Q3 2023. The value of the imports overall massively decreased due to lower prices, but volume barely changed (down 3%). The US and Norway have been able to fill the gap left by Russian sanctions.

The US is now the largest LNG exporter in the world and has become the third largest oil exporter.

Sanctions are never as effective as people want them to be. They didn't work for Trump with Iran (which has become even more reckless and distrustful of the US after Trump unilaterally pulled out) and they haven't been as effective as we wanted against Russia, although they have had more impact than Russia will care to admit. A number of their industries have been hamstrung and they've had to do quite a bit of work to maneuver around sanctions, when they have been able to do so.

Russia isn't a particularly attractive trading partner for the US so the sanctions haven't hurt us at all. If Russia had any products we needed (they mainly export energy) or were an attractive destination for our exports (also not true, they are much smaller than people would realize - about equivalent to Sweden or Austria) than it might be a different story.
Whaaat??

IF you're tagging US LNG exporters as "asymmetric winners" with U.S. sanctions, and the sanctions being responsible for the decrease in Russia's share of EU energy, I think you're missing the influence of one big event -- the sabotage of the Nordstream pipeline in September 2022.

You might remember that in Fall 2022, many lower-level German politicians, and many more people, were calling for Germany to violate the sanctions, saying "Germany needs Russian gas." The Nordstream pipeline was destroyed days later. Europe -- and Germans in particular -- were very concerned about the sanctions going into Winter, and they didn't want to go thru a Winter without Russian gas.

As much as U.S. LNG exporters were "winners," Europe was the Big Loser. Paying much higher prices to the U.S. LNG exporters devastated the EU's economies, and caused crippling inflation -- to the point where there were anti-NATO demonstrations throughout Europe.

U.S. sanctions rarely work as intended because we have NeoCons running U.S. foreign policy, and they believe that the target nation's people will rise up and throw out the leader that the U.S. doesn't like.

Sanctions didn't work for Russia, nor did they "work" for Venezuela, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, Nicaragua, Somalia, N Korea, or Syria. Increasingly, people in these nations tend to rally around their leaders when they're threatened by the U.S. Putin had been saying, since 2008, that NATO expansion into Ukraine was an existential threat. Putin went to NATO in late 2021, demanding that Ukraine remain neutral, and NOT join NATO; NATO refused, so Putin invaded Ukraine, as he had previously promised. Putin's invasion of Ukraine catapulted his approval rating to over 80%, and it's been close to that ever since. https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/

The nation that's been damaged the most by our economic sanctions against Russia is the U.S. The oil & LNG exported to Europe & elsewhere reduced available supplies here, and pushed OUR energy prices UP, exacerbating our Inflation.

The bigger harm is that in Ukraine, and in Gaza, the U.S. is now seen by many nations as the world's biggest bully, barely clinging to its status as the world's leading superpower. The U.S. is in economic decline, corruption reigns in both political parties, its governance is in crisis, and the only way that it can maintain its economic leadership in the world (such as it is) is to engage its rival superpowers in proxy wars (Ukraine -> Russia, Taiwan -> China, Israel -> Iran). The USD's days are numbered as the world's reserve currency. And as the U.S. steals the assets of foreign investors (Iran, Russia), they'll find safer investments elsewhere.

The world watches in horror as the U.S. abandons its Ukrainian proxies, and sends the weapons it has left to kill civilians in Gaza, completely bypassing its democratic processes. They also sees U.S. cities in decline, the ranks of homeless people increasing, crumbling infrastructure, and the collapse of its Public Education. Over 60% of U.S. households are living paycheck-to-paycheck, and about 50% couldn't afford a $400 emergency expense. The bottom 50% of U.S. households share only 2.5% of the nation's wealth.

And every day, the corrupt politicians of both parties in the U.S. astonish the educated & cognizant people of the world with their indifference to human suffering.

Maybe President Biden (at 39% approval, 56% disapproval) should try a little democracy and fix his own country before helping Israel commit war crimes, and trying to jam our failed economic & political model down the throats of the rest of the world, at gunpoint.

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Unit2Sucks
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8:22a, 1/22/24


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sycasey
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:27a, 1/22/24
Unit2Sucks said:


At this point I'm not sure if you can call people who support authoritarian dictators as they invade other countries "left." They are something else.
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dajo9
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In reply to sycasey • 8:51a, 1/22/24
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:


At this point I'm not sure if you can call people who support authoritarian dictators as they invade other countries "left." They are something else.


Three lefts make a right
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movielover
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:57a, 1/22/24
Progressives added $6 Trillion in unneeded, inflationary handouts - on top of the previous $4 Trillion.

We're now $33 Trillion in debt and the interest payments will balloon, and we accomplished nothing.

Not 1,000 new bridges, not new freeways or nuclear power plants, no new hardened transmission lines or improved rail lines to Mexico to support USMCA and a growing strategic partner. We're chugging gender ideology and victimhood while working families struggle to compete with 10 million new illegal immigrants, and Latinos displace shattered African American families.
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Cal88
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In reply to sycasey • 10:22a, 1/22/24
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:


At this point I'm not sure if you can call people who support authoritarian dictators as they invade other countries "left." They are something else.

And what do you call people who support authoritarian regimes that throw political dissidents in gulags, torture them to death, and bomb Sunday morning downtown farmers markets?
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AunBear89
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In reply to Lets Go Brandon • 2:04p, 1/22/24
How often do you have to resurrect dead sock puppets with expired bans, just so they can upvote your absurd posts?

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to sycasey • 3:31p, 1/22/24
sycasey said:


At this point I'm not sure if you can call people who support authoritarian dictators as they invade other countries "left." They are something else.
Like all radicalized people, the outcome at the end doesn't necessarily follow from whatever got them started on their journey.

Nonetheless, many of them now find themselves amplifying Kremlin propaganda and weaponizing Putin's lies against America. No point in addressing them as they are too far gone to reason.

And now with a hyper-aggressive and resplendent Russia, getting stronger every day from this war, we have bigger things to worry about than terminally online leftists.

How will we deal with NK-powered Russian military?


And Russia's domestic infrastructure is incredibly hardened against attack.




Next they will tell us that the US stole Alaska (like Putin is claiming) and that Putin should be allowed to extend his revanchism to all former eastern-bloc countries.





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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 3:48p, 1/22/24
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:


At this point I'm not sure if you can call people who support authoritarian dictators as they invade other countries "left." They are something else.
Like all radicalized people, the outcome at the end doesn't necessarily follow from whatever got them started on their journey.

Nonetheless, blah blah blah



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Unit2Sucks
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12:41p, 1/24/24
Firehose is working OT right now to pretend that a Russian military transport that Ukraine shot down was actually full of POWs. Obviously this is a pitiful attempt to save face from the fact that Russian air defenses continue to fail despite shills perennially claiming they are state of the art.

My favorite part of Russia's fake claim about POWs being killed is that many of the "dead" POWs were transferred to Ukraine in previous exchanges, which just shows how utterly incompetent Russia is even at what they do best - laughably false propaganda. Or maybe my favorite part is Russia alternatively claiming the plane was shot down by UFA (which is embarrassing) or that the plane crashed due to incompetence (also embarrassing).



Not sure if related (and haven't seen this elsewhere) but it's possible that UFA is doing a boot and scoot with Patriot air defense systems which would allow them to operate more deeply within Russian air space.

When reading the shills bold claims of success, you should ask yourself why we are 700 days into this 3 day war and Ukraine is able to expand the geographical scope of its attacks within Russia? The answer is obvious but it's not want the Putinista's want you to hear: Russia is nowhere close to as dominant as they claim and their only real path to "victory" is the west abandoning Ukraine.




But fear not Putin stans, all of your predictions about what would happen with energy prices continue to come true.



Here's an interesting thread on Russia's attempt to break through UFA fortifications constructed over the last few months. We will see if Russia is able to have more success with this than UFA had going through Russian fortifications in the last counter-offensive.




And now with Sweden's ascession to NATO unblocked by Turkey, it's time to give Putin an award.




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bear2034
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 12:15p, 1/26/24
Unit2Sucks said:


The US is now the largest LNG exporter in the world and has become the third largest oil exporter.

U.S. stalls gas export projects that activists say are 'climate bombs'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/01/26/biden-lng-export-projects-climate/
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