The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

868,549 Views | 9916 Replies | Last: 7 hrs ago by bear2034
AunBear89
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to bear2034 • 6:59a, 3/1/24
Maybe BearFarce2034 is a useful moron.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Reply Quote
3
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AunBear89 • 7:41a, 3/1/24
AunBear89 said:
Maybe BearFarce2034 is a useful moron.

As opposed to unuseful ones, who always barge in unsolicited in conversations to compulsively post generic invectives with zero relevant content.
Reply Quote
5
1 edit
oski003
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 8:04a, 3/1/24
Cal88 said:
AunBear89 said:
Maybe BearFarce2034 is a useful moron.

As opposed to unuseful ones, who always barge in unsolicited in conversations to compulsively post generic invectives with zero relevant content.


+1000. If you don't offer anything substantive, you can't get criticized. I used to figure angrybear was created by an active liberal poster who hated contrary views so much he had a crazy insulting alt whose sole purpose was to get conservatives banned to create even more of a echo chamber here. It turns out he is just a super sensitive man child who is obsessed with dudes giving other dudes blowjobs.
Reply Quote
3
2 edits
AunBear89
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oski003 • 8:25a, 3/1/24
oski003 said:

Slurp slurp slurp. You are 1,000,000% correct, CalHH! You are so smart! Will you be my friend? Slurp slurp slurp!"
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Reply Quote
Unit2Sucks
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:19a, 3/1/24
Navalny's funeral today and despite the massive oppression of the Russian people, many came out in force for Navalny and against the dumb criminal war. Thousands of mourners attended.





The WSJ apparently got their hands on the terms of the proposed "peace" deal from early 2022. Doesn't sound like the parties were very close at all. It was largely designed to prevent Ukraine from defending itself against future Russian aggression. Of course the pro-Putin shills will present all of this as reasonable because like Putin they don't believe Ukraine is a real country that deserves sovereignty and independence. Their discord servers have been churning out anti-Ukraine garbage for years and won't stop now.


Sweden finally got wise to how Russia uses its "church."


As discussed, Russia is having trouble getting its remaining A-50s airborne. Which puts its airforce at even greater risk. They are trying to restart production but that is unlikely to happen on any reasonable timeframe.




That's it for now.
Reply Quote
3
oski003
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Unit2Sucks • 11:47a, 3/1/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Navalny's funeral today and despite the massive oppression of the Russian people, many came out in force for Navalny and against the dumb criminal war. Thousands of mourners attended.





The WSJ apparently got their hands on the terms of the proposed "peace" deal from early 2022. Doesn't sound like the parties were very close at all. It was largely designed to prevent Ukraine from defending itself against future Russian aggression. Of course the pro-Putin shills will present all of this as reasonable because like Putin they don't believe Ukraine is a real country that deserves sovereignty and independence. Their discord servers have been churning out anti-Ukraine garbage for years and won't stop now.


Sweden finally got wise to how Russia uses its "church."


As discussed, Russia is having trouble getting its remaining A-50s airborne. Which puts its airforce at even greater risk. They are trying to restart production but that is unlikely to happen on any reasonable timeframe.




That's it for now.


Can you post the content of the WSJ article please? Yes, DB, I know there are inexpensive trials.
Reply Quote
2
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:35p, 3/1/24
Crowds chant 'Putin is a killer' at Alexei Navalny's funeral | World News | Metro News


https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/01/crowds-chant-putin-a-killer-alexei-navalnys-funeral-20379744/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
2
Big C
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AunBear89 • 3:08p, 3/1/24
AunBear89 said:
oski003 said:

Slurp slurp slurp. You are 1,000,000% correct, CalHH! You are so smart! Will you be my friend? Slurp slurp slurp!"

^^^ perhaps we can be better than this ^^^
Reply Quote
2
Unit2Sucks
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:44p, 3/1/24
Russian mourners chanting to bring the military home.




And most of Russia still has no idea what their true losses are because the Kremlin continues to hide what's really going on. Russia's victories are coming at an extremely high cost.



Russia overtly threatening Moldova again. Look for the same Putin shills who said Putin wouldn't invade Ukraine (until the day he invaded) to claim that Moldova is safe for Russia. Ironically, Russians fleeing Putin's brutal oppressive regime in Russia are resettling everywhere, and now Russia thinks that it can dictate to the countries they settle in how they need to treat the expats.


Reply Quote
3
1 edit
AunBear89
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Big C • 8:36p, 3/1/24
Big C said:
AunBear89 said:
oski003 said:

Slurp slurp slurp. You are 1,000,000% correct, CalHH! You are so smart! Will you be my friend? Slurp slurp slurp!"

^^^ perhaps we can be better than this ^^^


I agree. All the ass licking that brownnose003 does is pretty embarrassing. But he's committed to the bit.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Reply Quote
1
Big C
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to AunBear89 • 11:14p, 3/1/24
AunBear89 said:
Big C said:
AunBear89 said:
oski003 said:

Slurp slurp slurp. You are 1,000,000% correct, CalHH! You are so smart! Will you be my friend? Slurp slurp slurp!"

^^^ perhaps we can be better than this ^^^


I agree. All the ass licking that brownnose003 does is pretty embarrassing. But he's committed to the bit.

Look, I totally get the exasperation with these people, but c'mon . . .
Reply Quote
going4roses
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:52a, 3/2/24
Russian navy vessel sunk by drones
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLeULWcD/
Tell someone you love them and try to have a good day
Reply Quote
4
movielover
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to going4roses • 6:42p, 3/2/24
Colonel Douglass McGregor said over a year ago that we have two kinds of Vessel's. Subs & targets.

Stop building targets.
Reply Quote
3
chazzed
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
1:28p, 3/3/24
Let us remember the innocents being killed in this unnecessary war waged by Putin.





Reply Quote
5
1 edit
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to chazzed • 2:26p, 3/3/24
chazzed said:
Let us remember the innocents being killed in this unnecessary war waged by Putin.





Looking at the damage pattern, drones don't level 6 stories off a concrete apartment block. The damage pattern is similar to many others in Ukraine done by stray anti-air missiles coming down after missing their targets:



The Shahed drone used by Russia weighs 200kg and carries a payload of 30kg and hits targets at speeds of around 100mph. That might damage one story of a concrete building at the point of impact.

The S-300 anti-air missile weighs 1,500kg has a payload of 150kg and comes down at speeds in the Mach 2-3 range, it would level a concrete apartment building. In fact it has levelled many such buildings in Ukrainian cities defended by S-300 batteries.



The Russians do not target civilian apartment buildings, they have fired 5 million shells and thousands of missiles in the last 2 years. If civilians were targeted, they could have killed literally millions of them. Also, the Russians consider Odessa to be a Russian city, the majority of people there are pro-Russian, it is highly improbably that they would target random civilian dwellings in Odessa.

The Ukrainian military on the other hand have been shelling civilian targets like Donetsk on and off since 2014. Most recently, they have used HIMARS precision guided ammunition to blow up a farmers market and the main library in Donetsk:


Also noticed that Israel, which targets civilians and has bombed to death over 10,000 children already does not seem to bother you at all.

Reply Quote
3
2 edits
bearister
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to movielover • 3:29p, 3/3/24
movielover said:
Colonel Douglass McGregor said over a year ago that we have two kinds of Vessel's. Subs & targets.

Stop building targets.

I think there is enough brass in the American military like Colonel Douglass McGregor and General Flynn to back a tRump totalitarian state after Berserk Bear delivers the required Electoral College votes to make him POTUS.
The American Empire is cued up to go out with a whimper.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
Unit2Sucks
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to chazzed • 3:30p, 3/3/24
chazzed said:
Let us remember the innocents being killed in this unnecessary war waged by Putin.
Couldn't agree more and I would go even further. Every casualty, military or civilian, from this entire dumb war is on Putin. This includes the 300k+ Russian military casualties as well as all 400 billion Ukrainians that his propagandists claim he has killed (or whatever other made up number they are using today).

Virtually all of the casualties on both sides were people who were civilians before Putin began this war. They are virtually all innocent, and never would have been put in harm's way were it not for Putin. Young people should be building lives for themselves, not fighting to their death against (or for) a criminal invasion from a joingoist revanchist.

This isn't meant to excuse war crimes and other misconduct by combatants, but none of them should have ever been put in this position.


Of course, it won't stop Russian propaganda from propaganda-ing. I expect we will see dumb arguments like this, as we have for the past 2 years.


Here's an example of the type of person Putin says he was trying to protect in starting this dumb war. These are the same people now sacrificing their lives in defense of Ukraine.


Unfortunately Ukraine wasn't able to stop every attack, but they are whittling away at Russia's air force. The recent destruction of AWACs seems to be creating more and more opportunities to strike at Russian jets with Patriots the last few weeks.





If only.


Reply Quote
2
2 edits
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Unit2Sucks • 5:05p, 3/3/24
Unit2Sucks said:
chazzed said:
Let us remember the innocents being killed in this unnecessary war waged by Putin.
Couldn't agree more and I would go even further. Every casualty, military or civilian, from this entire dumb war is on Putin. This includes the 300k+ Russian military casualties as well as all 400 billion Ukrainians that his propagandists claim he has killed (or whatever other made up number they are using today).

Virtually all of the casualties on both sides were people who were civilians before Putin began this war. They are virtually all innocent, and never would have been put in harm's way were it not for Putin. Young people should be building lives for themselves, not fighting to their death against a criminal invasion from a joingoist revanchist.

This isn't meant to excuse war crimes and other misconduct by combatants, but none of them should have ever been put in this position.


Of course, it won't stop Russian propaganda from propaganda-ing. I expect we will see dumb arguments like this, as we have for the past 2 years.


Here's an example of the type of person Putin says he was trying to protect in starting this dumb war. These are the same people now sacrificing their lives in defense of Ukraine.


Unfortunately Ukraine wasn't able to stop every attack, but they are whittling away at Russia's air force. The recent destruction of AWACs seems to be creating more and more opportunities to strike at Russian jets with Patriots the last few weeks.




Funny how you pretend you have me on ignore, but reply almost instantly to my posts...

It's better to pretend you have me on ignore as you usually have no answer to my posts.

The stories of mass shooting downs of Su-34s and Su-35s are bogus Ukrainian propaganda. This is confirmed by the few reasonable pro-NATO sources, like the heavily pro-Ukraine German journalist Julian Ropke:

Translated from German:

Quote:
Deleted after I found the original. The video does not show a shot down Su-34, but a haystack set on fire by farmers.
Still only one attempt at visual confirmation of 14 alleged Russian fighter jets takedowns in the last two weeks.


I doubt this is authentic, it's Jussie Smolett-level storyboading. In fact both Kharkov and Odessa are historically Russian cities, the majority of people in those cites are waiting out for their territories to flip to Russia.

However if they don't keep quiet about their allegience, the Kiev government is going to go after them:


We are seeing stepped up rhetoric from NATO about France and other countries sending boots on the ground because Kharkov might fall this year, as Russia is steadily advancing across the frontline. So the Ukrainian propaganda machine now is also focusing on those russophone cities, which have been heavily solicited in forced conscriptions:






Reply Quote
2
2 edits
Unit2Sucks
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:15p, 3/4/24
Going to drop a few interesting tweets from today. The main theme is that Russia is clearly and effectively communicating that all of their pretexts for the war in Ukraine were fake and that they believe Ukraine has no right to exist as a sovereign nation and that Putin's revanchism is a big driver. For context, Medvedev was the President of Russia and is the deputy chairman of their security council. And TASS is state owned media (eg the most official propaganda in Russia). So this isn't like some random person saying it.




For "random" people, you can see what Dugin thinks. He's the influential professor whose daughter got blown up a few years ago.


They're making overt threats against Armenia now.


And so nervous that Germany might send Taurus missiles (a year late) that they are bringing up nazis again.


Finally - we all know how Russia is getting stronger. Here's an awful story about how a murderer turned "war hero" treated Russia upon the end of his service. By brutally murdering another young woman. Don't worry, his sentence for that murder is another stint in Ukraine. If he survives that, he can go back to killing and dismembering Russian girls.



Reply Quote
4
Lets Go Brandon 18
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Unit2Sucks • 9:30a, 3/5/24
Unit2Sucks said:
Going to drop a few interesting tweets from today.
Gonna drop an interesting tweet from today.


I'm sure her resignation was probably because she achieved all objectives in Ukraine and felt like there was no way she could top herself.



Reply Quote
4
1 edit
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Lets Go Brandon 18 • 9:51a, 3/5/24
9-0 Wipeout said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Going to drop a few interesting tweets from today.
Gonna drop an interesting tweet from today.


I'm sure her resignation was probably because she achieved all objectives in Ukraine and felt like there was no way she could top herself.




Good news, this might signal a shift towards a more reasonable policy in Ukraine and away from the radical neocon line that Nuland implemented leading to the death of half a million Ukrainian soldiers.

Reply Quote
4
2 edits
blungld
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 1:14p, 3/5/24
Cal88 said:
Good news, this might signal a shift towards a more reasonable policy in Ukraine and away from the radical neocon line that Nuland implemented leading to the death of half a million Ukrainian soldiers.
Isn't it so messed up how Ukraine killed half a million of its own soldiers? What Barbarians! What Nazis! How dare they have their own country and defend themselves from an invasion. It's all Ukraine's fault. At any moment they had the ability to give their homes to Putin and instead they slaughter their own people by defending themselves! I mean, they did like almost maybe think about joining NATO and so they deserve everything they get.

If Mexico attacks because they SAY we have too many white nationalists, I am positive you will be first in line to give them your property and call for immediate supplication so that no American must die needlessly defending their country.

Have you thought about defending a rapist who molests a teenage girl because the clothes she was wearing were too sexy? I mean, she doesn't have autonomy, and neither does Ukraine! The rapist, er, Russia can't help it if they see something they want.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
Reply Quote
6
Cal88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to blungld • 1:41p, 3/5/24
blungld said:
Cal88 said:
Good news, this might signal a shift towards a more reasonable policy in Ukraine and away from the radical neocon line that Nuland implemented leading to the death of half a million Ukrainian soldiers.
Isn't it so messed up how Ukraine killed half a million of its own soldiers? What Barbarians! What Nazis! How dare they have their own country and defend themselves from an invasion. It's all Ukraine's fault. At any moment they had the ability to give their homes to Putin and instead they slaughter their own people by defending themselves! I mean, they did like almost maybe think about joining NATO and so they deserve everything they get.

If Mexico attacks because they SAY we have too many white nationalists, I am positive you will be first in line to give them your property and call for immediate supplication so that no American must die needlessly defending their country.

Have you thought about defending a rapist who molests a teenage girl because the clothes she was wearing were too sexy? I mean, she doesn't have autonomy, and neither does Ukraine! The rapist, er, Russia can't help it if they see something they want.

The government put in place after the Maidan coup in 2014 which overthrew the democratically-elected government has a nationalist ideology which excludes the large Russian and Russophone minority in that country. The Maidan government invaded the Donbas in order the crush the local rebellion against the Coup, in an operation called the ATO. This is when and where the war started in Ukraine.

This war escalated 2 years ago with the Russian invasion to counter the massing of 60k Ukrainian troops that were about to crush the Donbas rebellion, in contravention with the Minsk II Agreements.

The war could have been stopped half a million lives ago had Ukraine agreed to the Istanbul peace agreement, in which Russia agreed to withdraw from the Donbas and all other territories except Crimea. The Kiev government was about to sign the deal when NATO (Boris) intervened and egged on Kiev to press on with the war, promising wonderweapons and unlimited support.

The majority of the people in the territories currently held by Russia do not want to go back to Ukraine. In Russophone cities like Odessa, citizens are being rounded up by the thousands for holding pro-Russian thoughts:

And the majority of Ukrainians today want a settlement with Russia, they do not want to fight to the last Ukrainian in a war they are guaranteed to lose. What's the point of being more Catholic than the Pope here?!? This is a government that builds ditches and fences to prevent their citizens from leaving the country in order to avoid being used as cannon fodder:


The longer this war goes, the more dead people, and the weaker Ukraine's position becomes in the inevitable negotiation phase to come.
Reply Quote
6
3 edits
bear2034
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:55p, 3/5/24


Victoria Nuland, the architect of the disastrous US Ukraine policy since 2014, will be resigning "in the coming weeks" after Gateway Pundit filed a FOIA request to find out what her role was in the death of US journalist Gonzalo Lira in Ukraine, an outspoken Nuland critic who was subsequently arrested and tortured in Ukraine.
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
Zippergate
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Cal88 • 4:58p, 3/5/24
You could explain the background of this tragedy 100 times and they will still read right over it and spew their talking points. It's really quite remarkable.
Reply Quote
5
bear2034
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:39p, 3/5/24


One of the few instances where Victoria Nuland accidentally told the truth.
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
blungld
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Zippergate • 5:51p, 3/5/24
Zippergate said:
You could explain the background of this tragedy 100 times and they will still read right over it and spew their talking points. It's really quite remarkable.
I guarantee I know the context and history of Ukraine better than you. I am 50% Ukrainian and having been there and with lots of family living there. So F off. Go back to your media bubble and have them tell you all about Ukraine and then you can keep thinking you are informed as you smugly parrot propaganda and be a total ass.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
Reply Quote
8
Unit2Sucks
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:01p, 3/5/24
Ukraine sank another one of Putin's state of the art ships - the Sergey Kotov patrol ship which was put into service in 2022 at a cost of $65 million has been promoted to crewless submarine. It was designed to combat naval drones lol.





Macron, who is not exactly the strongest leader out there, put on his big boy pants today in Prague. Let's see if it translates into action.

EU countries are applying more and more pressure on Germany to provide support.


Good thread on one prominent example of how Putin's shills spread disinformation in Western media.


And another reminder of how impactful drones are in modern warfare. As I recently highlighted, the vast majority of Russian tank "production" remains refurbishment of decades old stockpiles, but those will eventually run out. I hope the US is shifting design/development/procurement fast enough in light of what we've learned from this war. I hope we're dis-investing from all systems with this sort of vulnerability to commodity drones.


Reply Quote
3
Zippergate
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to blungld • 10:49p, 3/5/24
From what part of Ukraine are you and your relatives from?
Reply Quote
3
bear2034
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to blungld • 11:39p, 3/5/24
blungld said:
Zippergate said:
You could explain the background of this tragedy 100 times and they will still read right over it and spew their talking points. It's really quite remarkable.
I guarantee I know the context and history of Ukraine better than you. I am 50% Ukrainian and having been there and with lots of family living there. So F off. Go back to your media bubble and have them tell you all about Ukraine and then you can keep thinking you are informed as you smugly parrot propaganda and be a total ass.


You don't know Ukraine better than Vikki.
Reply Quote
2
blungld
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Zippergate • 7:52a, 3/6/24
Zippergate said:
From what part of Ukraine are you and your relatives from?
I am tentative about sharing personal information with you so you better tread lightly here.

Most of my family is in Lviv, but some in Crimea, and also many have moved to Warsaw. I can't say I know all of them intimately, but some of the ones I know well are PHDs or are in government (youthful progressives). They are some of the brightest, intellectual people I have met. They are very informed and (like many "europeans") have a much broader sense of both history and politics than "we" do. Many of them were as or more informed on American politics than I was. They did not suffer from the same partisan babble I experience here. When they would speak it was thoughtful and considerate and wise--there was always a sense of them sitting back and looking at an issue in the long view and with objectivity.

I admire them and it makes me cringe when I compare the discourse here compared to the coffee shop talks I had there. When I think of them living through this invasion, the stress they are under, how counter Russian culture and governance is to them, how excited they were about movement to democracy and capitalism, how grateful they were to America, and how buildings and heritage I visited are now destroyed, it breaks my heart. What I saw was a lovely, modern country (yes, greatly influenced by my weeks in Lviv) that surprised me with its urbanity and in some ways better infrastructure then the US (again in the major cities). I could have been in Paris, London, Denver, or Chicago...not a backward country clamoring for Russia to invade and purge the Nazis and show them how to run a country. Completely the opposite.

So when I hear people in this country speaking in simplistic terms; assisting Putin in his propaganda campaign; being callous to suffering, excusing aggression and greed; acting like they know what's going on because their bubble told them what opinion to hold; judging an entire country by the actions of a minority there (as if you could judge America in totality on the basis of a cult--though with MAGA that might becoming increasingly fair); not having any deep appreciation for the trauma this area has experienced as one of the most war torn places on the planet and the scars of Stalin, Hitler, and Holodomor (members of my family fought against Hitler, some were forced into labor in jam factories serving the Nazi troops against their will, all had to make the Sophie's choice and life determining choice of running towards Hitler or Stalin, my great grandfather was one of the first political non-jews executed in Auschwitz for civil disobedience against the SS and I have seen pictures of him in the camp and been to the room where they injected him in the heart); and putting manufactured tribalism before common sense, decency, and empathy, that leads to the same horrors there becoming increasing reality here, I get plssed.
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
Reply Quote
6
1 edit
sycasey
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:32a, 3/6/24
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.
Reply Quote
7
oski003
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sycasey • 10:33a, 3/6/24
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.


The US has a lot of power to heavily influence foreign governments.
Reply Quote
3
sycasey
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to oski003 • 1:08p, 3/6/24
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.


The US has a lot of power to heavily influence foreign governments.
Yes, the US government writ large does. Nuland personally was but one cog in that machine. She is assigned way too much credit/blame for everything by the conspiracists.

And even given US "influence," there are plenty of other nations that choose to buck it. Ukraine made their choice; Russia didn't like it.
Reply Quote
3
1 edit
cbbass1
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to sycasey • 4:06p, 3/6/24
sycasey said:
This conspiratorial obsession with Victoria Nuland is so bizarre to me. She had some influence and made her opinions known, sure, but never had actual power to force the governments of the US, Ukraine, or Russia to do anything they didn't want to.

Honestly, it only makes sense if you consider that she was very vocally anti-Putin and therefore Putin's propaganda operation went after her very hard.
Here's a more objective summary on Victoria Nuland's "resignation": Victoria Nuland: Ukraine's WICKED WITCH Resigns

If you think it's a "conspiracy theory" that the now-embarrassed Nuland engineered the 2014 coup in Ukraine, then you should be aware of some facts and "inconvenient truths."

The video I linked below is from a speech that Nuland gave at the US-Ukraine Foundation's conference in December, 2013 -- 2 months before the coup in February. She's essentially taking a 'victory lap', celebrating & taking credit for the huge pro-EU protests in the Maidan.

In the speech, she credits all the people & organizations who, at that point, had contributed to creating and growing the Maidan protest movement. There was the US-Ukraine Foundation itself (a 501(c)3 NGO created to "support Ukraine in its development of democracy, a free market economy, human rights, and strategic partnership with the U.S."), with sponsors/partners that obviously include Exxon and Chevron, and countless other corporations and investors. There were also hundreds of grants of U.S. taxpayer funds from the National Endowment for Democracy (a CIA front, created by CIA director William Casey in 1982). The NED's website used to list all the grants for social media campaigns, email, promotions, ads, etc., that helped to build the Maidan protest movement.

At 7:26 in this video, Victoria Nuland at "Ukraine in Washington 2013": Ukrainians deserve a government that respects them,
Nuland declares, "Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations. We've invested over 5 billion dollars to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

Nuland was the current lead of the decades-long effort, by the U.S. NeoCons, to pry Ukraine from Russia's orbit and influence, bring it into the EU & NATO, and exclude Russia. The whole point of the EU, and the expansion of NATO after the collapse of the USSR and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, was to isolate, weaken, and eventually collapse Russia into a collection of regional states that would be nearly impossible to unify.

Victoria Nuland's "retirement," due to the colossal failure of her U.S. policy in Ukraine, is the best news that we've had in U.S. foreign policy since Trump & Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Speaking of Afghanistan -- Nuland's replacement, John R. Bass, was the diplomat hurriedly shoved into the leading role of the U.S. military withdrawal from Afghanistan. This is tantamount to the Biden administration cutting their losses & getting out of Ukraine.

So Cal88 was a couple months off, but he was right.

It may also be that all military resources are being diverted to supporting genocide in Gaza -- a much higher strategic priority for Biden, Blinken, Sullivan, and the remaining NeoCons. In order to fund the U.S. government AND get the $14 Billion for genocide, they have to drop the $60 Billion for Ukraine.

Fortunately for Nuland, she won't have to face the rage of the Ukrainian people whose nation she callously used to 'weaken' Russia (it didn't work), to enrich U.S. 'defense' contractors, and to cause the unnecessary deaths of thousands of courageous Ukrainian soldiers & civilians. This is, hopefully, the end of the road for the NeoCon fantasies of U.S. hegemony in a multi-polar world.

It's also important to recognize, going forward, that our failed strategy of creating a trading bloc that excludes a potential superpower (Russia) is also the current plan for China. The U.S. is trying to convince Australia, Japan, Korea, and other Asian nations -- but NOT China -- to create a trading bloc. This is a stupid idea, and is likely to meet the same fate as Ukraine and the devastated EU & NATO.

Instead of focusing our national resources on education, infrastructure, and creating a healthy & sustainable economy & society, we're sowing division here in the U.S., and using extremely expensive proxy wars to slow the economic ascent of China & Russia.

It's a bad look, and everyone in the world can see it. Except for propagandized Americans.
Reply Quote
2
First Page Last Page
Page 227 of 284 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.