AunBear89 said:
See ya later, MAGAts. Hope you like borscht, crap beer, abd crappier bread.
The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread
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Last: 2 hrs ago by Cal88
There are some very decent Russian beers, like Baltika, which is the leading brand there, and was available at places like BevMo before the Ukraine war.
Food quality in Russia is good as well as being cheap, GMOs are completely banned in Russia and the breads/flours there have fewer preservatives, they use beet sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup etc. There are also a lot of expats there who are contributing to the local food scene:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/29/dining-out-in-moscow-from-culinary-wasteland-to-foodie-heaven
https://tuorlomagazine.it/en/russian-fine-dining-michelin-guide-world-s-50-best/
Food quality in Russia is good as well as being cheap, GMOs are completely banned in Russia and the breads/flours there have fewer preservatives, they use beet sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup etc. There are also a lot of expats there who are contributing to the local food scene:
Quote:
"Moscow is becoming one of the best places to eat in the world," said local food critic and restaurant consultant Sasha Sutormina. "Two years ago you certainly couldn't say that, but now when I have friends here from London, Hong Kong or Paris, they can't believe how good it is."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/29/dining-out-in-moscow-from-culinary-wasteland-to-foodie-heaven
https://tuorlomagazine.it/en/russian-fine-dining-michelin-guide-world-s-50-best/
Cal88 said:
There are some very decent Russian beers, like Baltika, which is the leading brand there, and was available at places like BevMo before the Ukraine war.
Food quality in Russia is good as well as being cheap, GMOs are completely banned in Russia and the breads/flours there have fewer preservatives, they use beet sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup etc. There are also a lot of expats there who are contributing to the local food scene:Quote:
"Moscow is becoming one of the best places to eat in the world," said local food critic and restaurant consultant Sasha Sutormina. "Two years ago you certainly couldn't say that, but now when I have friends here from London, Hong Kong or Paris, they can't believe how good it is."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/29/dining-out-in-moscow-from-culinary-wasteland-to-foodie-heaven
https://tuorlomagazine.it/en/russian-fine-dining-michelin-guide-world-s-50-best/
Just don't drink the water
Comments on this board belittling the quality of life in Russia lack context. Russia was incredibly poor and backward just a short time ago. The progress since that time has been immense. Contrast this with the decline of the US. While the some of the quantitative numbers look good on the surface (if you ignore the debt, balance of payments, etc), the qualitative decline is equally immense.
I was in St Petersburg in the late 80s and again in 2019. In the 80s, everything was dilapidated and the people were somber and impoverished; the complete failure of socialism was readily apparent. In 2019, the vibe was completely different. I had a long conversation with our tour guide and it was fascinating to hear her stories about the old Russia and how things are different. Not that there aren't problems and frustrations, but it was clear that she believed the country was on an upward trajectory.
I respect Russia and have admiration for the Russia people. But I don't love Russia and I certainly regret their support for terrorist regimes like Iran and increasing ties with China which I view as a threat to free people everywhere. All the more reason to engage with Russia and integrate Russia into Europe the way Germany was doing before the war. Sadly, that ship has sailed.
I was in St Petersburg in the late 80s and again in 2019. In the 80s, everything was dilapidated and the people were somber and impoverished; the complete failure of socialism was readily apparent. In 2019, the vibe was completely different. I had a long conversation with our tour guide and it was fascinating to hear her stories about the old Russia and how things are different. Not that there aren't problems and frustrations, but it was clear that she believed the country was on an upward trajectory.
I respect Russia and have admiration for the Russia people. But I don't love Russia and I certainly regret their support for terrorist regimes like Iran and increasing ties with China which I view as a threat to free people everywhere. All the more reason to engage with Russia and integrate Russia into Europe the way Germany was doing before the war. Sadly, that ship has sailed.
Yup, it's too bad Russia started a war.Zippergate said:
I respect Russia and have admiration for the Russia people. But I don't love Russia and I certainly regret their support for terrorist regimes like Iran and increasing ties with China which I view as a threat to free people everywhere. All the more reason to engage with Russia and integrate Russia into Europe the way Germany was doing before the war. Sadly, that ship has sailed.
Awesome, now do Iraq and Libya.
Libya started a war against themselves. America started a war against Iraq because of all the voters that are now MAGAts.Zippergate said:
Awesome, now do Iraq and Libya.
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
MAGA
NATO funded, organized civil wars in Libya and Syria, flying in weapons and jihadis into both countries.
Hundreds of thousands killed, 14 million refugees, countries that were stable and relatively affluent now starving, and to this day, actively prevented from rebuilding by US policy, with 1/3 of Syria under US/proxy occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
Hundreds of thousands killed, 14 million refugees, countries that were stable and relatively affluent now starving, and to this day, actively prevented from rebuilding by US policy, with 1/3 of Syria under US/proxy occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
The US invading Iraq was bad, just like Russia invading Ukraine is bad. Though I would say invading Ukraine was worse, because the US never intended to actually take Iraq as part of its territory.Zippergate said:
Awesome, now do Iraq and Libya.
Zippergate said:
Awesome, now do Iraq and Libya.
I know Pat was tRump before tRump, except for the brains part, but I always found this a compelling essay on the origins of the Invasion of Iraq:
Whose War? - The American Conservative
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/whose-war/
*It's long, but worth reading.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Same story as Ukraine. You guys need some fresh material.Cal88 said:
NATO funded, organized civil wars in Libya and Syria, flying in weapons and jihadis into both countries.
Hundreds of thousands killed, 14 million refugees, countries that were stable and relatively affluent now starving, and to this day, actively prevented from rebuilding by US policy, with 1/3 of Syria under US/proxy occupation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
MAGA
Same foreign policy, same story.
Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
Democrats have yet to bring up Ukraine at the DNC? Whatever happened to Ukraine being the final stand for "democracy"?
🇺🇦🇷🇺🚨‼️ Donbass front, Toretsk direction - very quick movement.
— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) August 20, 2024
Over the past two days, the capture of THREE large settlements (Pivnichnoye, Zaliznoye and New York) was officially completed, including one city (Zaliznoye).
This has not happened since start of 2022!
There are… pic.twitter.com/7Q5gP5cRyx
sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
Bangladesh's overthrown leader Sheikh Hasina said the US government backed the regime-change operation against her.
— Ben Norton (@BenjaminNorton) August 11, 2024
She said the US told her she could stay in power if she let it build a military base on the strategic St. Martin's Island. She refused.https://t.co/7v3uYdiCO5
^Ukraine mobilizing up to 20,000 troops for the Kursk incursion weakened their positions in those other key battlefronts.
Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
Why should we have 800 military bases, let alone 400?
What happens to the POTUS who wants to eliminate that stock by half?
What happens to the POTUS who wants to eliminate that stock by half?
sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
-Overthrowing Ukraine's democratically-elected government in 2014 (Maidan color revolution)
-Arming that government to the gills, operating secret bases and biolabs, promoting the most radical nationalists in Ukraine since the 1950s, and Ukraine openly stating they will seek nuclear weapons.
-Kiev repressing the Donbas and southern Ukraine, their president even boasting about bombing their people into submission and their children having to grow up cowering in their basements.
-Breaking the Minsk II Agreements, which all three parties (Ukraine, Germany and France) admitted was not signed in good faith and meant as a delaying tactic for an armed intervention
-Scuttling the Istanbul peace treaty, which would have stopped the war in its infancy and restored the Donbas to Ukraine under a federal political structure guaranteeing cultural autonomy not unlike that of Canada, Belgium or Spain. The Russians wanted primarily a neutral Ukraine, not more territory, those were the terms of that treaty.
-Ukraine adopting an extreme, hardline policy of non-negotiation with Russia, outright banning any contact and even assassinating moderate Ukrainian negotiators.
movielover said:
Why should we have 800 military bases, let alone 400?
What happens to the POTUS who wants to eliminate that stock by half?
If it's a Democrat you'll do to them what you've been doing to President Biden for leaving Afghanistan.
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
MAGA
dajo9 said:movielover said:
Why should we have 800 military bases, let alone 400?
What happens to the POTUS who wants to eliminate that stock by half?
If it's a Democrat you'll do to them what you've been doing to President Biden for leaving Afghanistan.
No one here is blaming Biden for leaving Afghanistan, it was the disastrous manner with which it was handled.
As well one of the main motivations in leaving Afghanistan is that the Biden administration anticipated military resources having to be mobilized in Ukraine and down the line in China, it was a case of quitting a war in order to start even bigger wars elsewhere.
dajo9 said:movielover said:
Why should we have 800 military bases, let alone 400?
What happens to the POTUS who wants to eliminate that stock by half?
If it's a Democrat you'll do to them what you've been doing to President Biden for leaving Afghanistan.
You expect the bases to be hastily closed with a terrible withdrawal plan that will lead to abandonment of most of the weapons and military supplies? Is Biden closing these bases? Will Kamala be the base closer czar?
The most elementary error in that withdrawal was doing it in Summer. As noted by Col. MacGregor, the Taliban go into "hibernation mode" during the harsh winters, retreating to their villages, so that would have been the ideal season for an orderly evacuation.
Neocon Libs won't close bases, they'll start a war w Iran.
Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
As well, a handful of US regime change operations were quite positive, such as the support provided to the Polish Solidarnosc national independence movement from the Soviet Union. Unfortunately those interventions have been the exception rather than the rule.
Ukraine should be viewed within the more serious framework of the Great Game, confrontation between the great sea power (UK, then the US) and land power (Russia) which goes back to the British Empire and the Crimean War of the 19th century, rather than through a Star Wars/Hollywood storyboard moral tale that has been sold to the general public in America.
I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
sycasey said:I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
Japan was invading Burma, Germany was into Norway and Greece and everything in between in quest for their unquenchable Lebensraum. Not quite the same.
Of course it's not exactly the same, there is no literal world war going on right now. But if you wanted to pick the closest parallel in the current time, it's Russia.Cal88 said:sycasey said:I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
Japan was invading Burma, Germany was into Norway and Greece and everything in between in quest for their unquenchable Lebensraum. Not quite the same.
sycasey said:Of course it's not exactly the same, there is no literal world war going on right now. But if you wanted to pick the closest parallel in the current time, it's Russia.Cal88 said:sycasey said:I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
Japan was invading Burma, Germany was into Norway and Greece and everything in between in quest for their unquenchable Lebensraum. Not quite the same.
The area that Russia has annexed during the war represents less than 1% of its size, adjacent to their original borders, while the areas held by Japan or Germany were around 2,500% and 500% larger than their original size, and located in far flung areas. It's not just "not exactly" the same, it's day and night.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:Of course it's not exactly the same, there is no literal world war going on right now. But if you wanted to pick the closest parallel in the current time, it's Russia.Cal88 said:sycasey said:I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
Japan was invading Burma, Germany was into Norway and Greece and everything in between in quest for their unquenchable Lebensraum. Not quite the same.
The area that Russia has annexed during the war represents less than 1% of its size, adjacent to their original borders, while the areas held by Japan or Germany were around 2,500% and 500% larger than their original size, and located in far flung areas. It's not just "not exactly" the same, it's day and night.
"We're a bigger country therefore get to take more territory" is not the strong argument you think it is.
But again, your consistent defense of Russian military invasion over that of other countries is duly noted.
Cal88 said:sycasey said:I'm not talking about WW2, I'm talking about now.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Yes, just as I said: you will never say that Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine. You will continue to blame it on someone else.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Never said the US didn't meddle. Of course we do (though honestly . . . having military bases in countries that have invited us to be there doesn't really qualify). You, meanwhile, apologize for and justify whatever meddling Russia tries to do, like you just did above.Cal88 said:sycasey said:Indeed, Russian foreign policy has a history. One of meddling in countries near its borders and whenever possible, trying to absorb said countries into its empire. Same story in Ukraine.Cal88 said:
Same foreign policy, same story.
The parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed are Russian, the Kiev government lost its legitimacy over these regions by treating its inhabitants and their culture as second-class citizens, banning their religion and suppressing their rebellion violently since 2014, and not abiding by Minsk II,
We meddle in nearly every country around the world, not just in N. America, lately conducting color revolutions, armed interventions and overthrows of governments in countries like Bangladesh, Haiti or Pakistan. 800+ bases around the world, including 12 secret bases in Ukraine and several biolabs.
The double standard is the problem. If you held Russia to the same standard you held the US to, you'd never make the kinds of arguments you make here. I said the US was wrong to invade Iraq. You will never say that about Russia in Ukraine.
The Russian intervention was made inevitable through repeated NATO policies:
You would never do this if the US had invaded another country, not a chance.
That's laughable, in WW2 the US had every right to invade Japan and Germany.
Though on that score . . . the US was right to invade Japan and Germany because they had already invaded and attacked a lot of other places, and of course Japan had already attacked US territory directly. In the current scenario, Russia is more like Japan or Germany.
Japan was invading Burma, Germany was into Norway and Greece and everything in between in quest for their unquenchable Lebensraum. Not quite the same.
What about the Hungarian Uprising of 1956 and the 1968 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia as better analogies?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
FAFO. See Cuba.
movielover said:
FAFO. See Cuba.
Yes, great example of a foolish invasion. Much like Russia in Ukraine.
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