Haloski said:
Cal88 said:
bear2034 said:
bearister said:
The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.
Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.
Prolonging the war is compassionate?
"It's about money" Lindsey Graham
Look, I know you've already been truly very critical of Putin a few (but not many) times in this thread, but this is another situation where your sharp criticism is due. It's about money for all of them, at least partially. This needs to be another instance of you being critical of Putin for being unsympathetic to the lives lost in the name of Russian imperialism.
I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war. Bear in mind as well that on the Russian political map, Putin is a moderate, who has received a lot of domestic criticism for not having intervened earlier and not responding more aggressively to Ukrainian attacks within Russia proper.
Also bear in mind that the great majority of the populations within the areas currently held by the Russians are ethnic Russians and pro-Russian, especially in Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts. A bit less so towards Kherson and Zaporizhia, where it's closer to 50-50. The western third (Galicia) are hardcore anti-Russian.
^This is a good and fairly neutral recap of the Ukrainian allegiance picture, source of the above map:
https://www.geocurrents.info/blog/tag/novorossiya/I think Putin would have actually preferred to have a large, neutral Ukraine on his border with a big Russian/pro-Russian minority population as leverage, but that is not going to happen at this point after nearly a decade of civil war. I see the following possible outcomes for Russia and Ukraine:
1- A conflict freeze along the current borders, or close to it (including the small remainders of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)
2- Russia keeps moving
west and takes more territory on the left bank of the Dniepr, including Zaporizhia (about half of the cream-colored region in the above map)
3- The war keeps going for another year plus, the frontline collapses and Russia moves further in and annexes Kharkov, Odessa and the entirety of "Novorossiya" (green region below).
(2) is the most likely outcome, Putin has hinted that he would use Odessa and access to the Black Sea as bargaining chips for Ukraine becoming neutral and demilitarizing in a long-term settlement.
(1) is only possible if Trump forces Ukraine towards a settlement early next year, that is really the best outcome for all parties IMHO in terms of stopping the bloodshed. Putin would be under some pressure to accept those terms from the global community (countries like India, Brazil and even China).