Cal88 said:

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Jeffrey Sachs on Global Threats: "The Only Threat to the United States is Nuclear War"https://t.co/v62Y54VHmD

— Dyor (@Powerfulmindx) November 21, 2024

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So, that's what you wanted?
Well, you've damn well got it!

A hypersonic ballistic missile attack pic.twitter.com/lsKQHhMnif

— Dmitry Medvedev (@MedvedevRussiaE) November 21, 2024

bearister said:

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The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

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bear2034 said:

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bearister said:

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The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

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Prolonging the war is compassionate?

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Lindsey Graham spills the beans:

"This war's about money...The richest country in all of Europe for rare earth minerals is Ukraine, two to seven trillion dollars worth...So Donald Trump's going to do a deal to get our money back, to enrich ourselves with rare minerals..." pic.twitter.com/fD3qLJTGY1

— Steve Howell (@FromSteveHowell) November 24, 2024

Cal88 said:

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bear2034 said:

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bearister said:

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The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

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Prolonging the war is compassionate?

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"It's about money" Lindsey Graham

Lindsey Graham spills the beans:

"This war's about money...The richest country in all of Europe for rare earth minerals is Ukraine, two to seven trillion dollars worth...So Donald Trump's going to do a deal to get our money back, to enrich ourselves with rare minerals..." pic.twitter.com/fD3qLJTGY1

— Steve Howell (@FromSteveHowell) November 24, 2024

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Edited By Staff said:

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Cal88 said:

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I don't think the lines in Paris or London will be very long for that tour.

BREAKING: France and England reportedly now in talks to deploy troops to Ukraine if Trump withdraws military aid.

— Douglas Macgregor (@DougAMacgregor) November 25, 2024

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Nothing would accelerate the unpopularity of the war like Europe finally having to get their own skin in the game for supporting American empire.

Biden's decision to send Ukraine landmines banned by most countries reverses his own decision in 2022 to prohibit their use due to what he said was their "disproportionate impact on civilians, including children, long after fighting has stopped..." https://t.co/sO45xvGpIY

— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) November 21, 2024

Oh, and congrats to Aunbear89 for his timeout expiring.

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BearGoggles said:

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Cal88 said:

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I don't think the lines in Paris or London will be very long for that tour.

BREAKING: France and England reportedly now in talks to deploy troops to Ukraine if Trump withdraws military aid.

— Douglas Macgregor (@DougAMacgregor) November 25, 2024

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Aside from the fact that Macgregor has been wrong about so many things, this seems highly unlikely. I know you simply disseminate anything that supports your view, but what is the evidence for this?

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Quote:

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'Not ruling out any option'

These are comments in line with those made by the French foreign minister, Jean-Nol Barrot, on a visit to London on November 22. In an interview with the BBC on November 23, he called on Western allies to "not set and express red lines" in their support for Ukraine. When asked about the possibility of sending French troops into the field, he declared: "We do not discard any option."

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French troops - about 1,500 soldiers - will be stationed in Ukraine as early as this month, russian Foreign Minister Zakharova said

The orcs have their spies everywhere - maybe they know more than we do. pic.twitter.com/NJ9qcg6CK2

— Jürgen Nauditt 🇩🇪🇺🇦 (@jurgen_nauditt) April 3, 2024

sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war.

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LOL you have got to be kidding.

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Cal88 said:

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Haloski said:

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Cal88 said:

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bear2034 said:

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bearister said:

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The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

---

Prolonging the war is compassionate?

---

"It's about money" Lindsey Graham

Lindsey Graham spills the beans:

"This war's about money...The richest country in all of Europe for rare earth minerals is Ukraine, two to seven trillion dollars worth...So Donald Trump's going to do a deal to get our money back, to enrich ourselves with rare minerals..." pic.twitter.com/fD3qLJTGY1

— Steve Howell (@FromSteveHowell) November 24, 2024

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Look, I know you've already been truly very critical of Putin a few (but not many) times in this thread, but this is another situation where your sharp criticism is due. It's about money for all of them, at least partially. This needs to be another instance of you being critical of Putin for being unsympathetic to the lives lost in the name of Russian imperialism.

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I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war. Bear in mind as well that on the Russian political map, Putin is a moderate, who has received a lot of domestic criticism for not having intervened earlier and not responding more aggressively to Ukrainian attacks within Russia proper.

Also bear in mind that the great majority of the populations within the areas currently held by the Russians are ethnic Russians and pro-Russian, especially in Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts. A bit less so towards Kherson and Zaporizhia, where it's closer to 50-50. The western third (Galicia) are hardcore anti-Russian.



^This is a good and fairly neutral recap of the Ukrainian allegiance picture, source of the above map:
https://www.geocurrents.info/blog/tag/novorossiya/

I think Putin would have actually preferred to have a large, neutral Ukraine on his border with a big Russian/pro-Russian minority population as leverage, but that is not going to happen at this point after nearly a decade of civil war. I see the following possible outcomes for Russia and Ukraine:

1- A conflict freeze along the current borders, or close to it (including the small remainders of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)

2- Russia keeps moving east and takes more territory on the left bank of the Dniepr, including Zaporizhia (about half of the cream-colored region in the above map)

3- The war keeps going for another year plus, the frontline collapses and Russia moves further in and annexes Kharkov, Odessa and the entirety of "Novorossiya" (green region below).



(2) is the most likely outcome, Putin has hinted that he would use Odessa and access to the Black Sea as bargaining chips for Ukraine becoming neutral and demilitarizing in a long-term settlement.

(1) is only possible if Trump forces Ukraine towards a settlement early next year, that is really the best outcome for all parties IMHO in terms of stopping the bloodshed. Putin would be under some pressure to accept those terms from the global community (countries like India, Brazil and even China).

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war.

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LOL you have got to be kidding.

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https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/107414/replies/2420622

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"Trying to avoid this war" would mean not sending troops in. This is not complicated.

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Ukraine was about to overrun the Donbas and take over Donetsk in the winter of '22, with 60,000 troops massed near the frontline, and Crimea as their next goal. Any Russian leader would have intervened, there is no way they would have allowed Crimea to fall back to a hostile Kiev government. As well defending Crimea would have been a lot more challenging for Russia without the land bridge north of the Sea of Azov.

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movielover said:

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I think you meant (2) Russia keeps moving west, not east.

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sycasey said:

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Haloski said:

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Cal88 said:

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Haloski said:

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Cal88 said:

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bear2034 said:

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bearister said:

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The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

---

Prolonging the war is compassionate?

---

"It's about money" Lindsey Graham

Lindsey Graham spills the beans:

"This war's about money...The richest country in all of Europe for rare earth minerals is Ukraine, two to seven trillion dollars worth...So Donald Trump's going to do a deal to get our money back, to enrich ourselves with rare minerals..." pic.twitter.com/fD3qLJTGY1

— Steve Howell (@FromSteveHowell) November 24, 2024

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Look, I know you've already been truly very critical of Putin a few (but not many) times in this thread, but this is another situation where your sharp criticism is due. It's about money for all of them, at least partially. This needs to be another instance of you being critical of Putin for being unsympathetic to the lives lost in the name of Russian imperialism.

---

I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war. Bear in mind as well that on the Russian political map, Putin is a moderate, who has received a lot of domestic criticism for not having intervened earlier and not responding more aggressively to Ukrainian attacks within Russia proper.

Also bear in mind that the great majority of the populations within the areas currently held by the Russians are ethnic Russians and pro-Russian, especially in Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts. A bit less so towards Kherson and Zaporizhia, where it's closer to 50-50. The western third (Galicia) are hardcore anti-Russian.



^This is a good and fairly neutral recap of the Ukrainian allegiance picture, source of the above map:
https://www.geocurrents.info/blog/tag/novorossiya/

I think Putin would have actually preferred to have a large, neutral Ukraine on his border with a big Russian/pro-Russian minority population as leverage, but that is not going to happen at this point after nearly a decade of civil war. I see the following possible outcomes for Russia and Ukraine:

1- A conflict freeze along the current borders, or close to it (including the small remainders of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)

2- Russia keeps moving east and takes more territory on the left bank of the Dniepr, including Zaporizhia (about half of the cream-colored region in the above map)

3- The war keeps going for another year plus, the frontline collapses and Russia moves further in and annexes Kharkov, Odessa and the entirety of "Novorossiya" (green region below).



(2) is the most likely outcome, Putin has hinted that he would use Odessa and access to the Black Sea as bargaining chips for Ukraine becoming neutral and demilitarizing in a long-term settlement.

(1) is only possible if Trump forces Ukraine towards a settlement early next year, that is really the best outcome for all parties IMHO in terms of stopping the bloodshed. Putin would be under some pressure to accept those terms from the global community (countries like India, Brazil and even China).

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But you HAVE been highly critical of Putin at times, almost going as far as suggesting that he step down. As such, it's not that difficult for you. You were very critical of his callousness and disregard for the lives of his citizens.

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I don't think I've ever seen Cal88 be this critical of Putin. When did this happen?

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Haloski said:

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sycasey said:

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Haloski said:

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Cal88 said:

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Haloski said:

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Cal88 said:

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bear2034 said:

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bearister said:

---

The compassionate Conservatives in this thread sure have a lot of pity for them poor Ukrainian lads forced to fight and die for their Homeland.

Even though they don't express it here, them being so compassionate and all, I assume they also silently cry for them Russkie boys gettin' meat grinded as foreign invaders…..and maybe a spare tear for them North Korean boys, so far from home, fightin' the good fight.

---

Prolonging the war is compassionate?

---

"It's about money" Lindsey Graham

Lindsey Graham spills the beans:

"This war's about money...The richest country in all of Europe for rare earth minerals is Ukraine, two to seven trillion dollars worth...So Donald Trump's going to do a deal to get our money back, to enrich ourselves with rare minerals..." pic.twitter.com/fD3qLJTGY1

— Steve Howell (@FromSteveHowell) November 24, 2024

---

Look, I know you've already been truly very critical of Putin a few (but not many) times in this thread, but this is another situation where your sharp criticism is due. It's about money for all of them, at least partially. This needs to be another instance of you being critical of Putin for being unsympathetic to the lives lost in the name of Russian imperialism.

---

I find it hard to criticize Putin here because the Russians did try to avoid this war. Bear in mind as well that on the Russian political map, Putin is a moderate, who has received a lot of domestic criticism for not having intervened earlier and not responding more aggressively to Ukrainian attacks within Russia proper.

Also bear in mind that the great majority of the populations within the areas currently held by the Russians are ethnic Russians and pro-Russian, especially in Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk oblasts. A bit less so towards Kherson and Zaporizhia, where it's closer to 50-50. The western third (Galicia) are hardcore anti-Russian.



^This is a good and fairly neutral recap of the Ukrainian allegiance picture, source of the above map:
https://www.geocurrents.info/blog/tag/novorossiya/

I think Putin would have actually preferred to have a large, neutral Ukraine on his border with a big Russian/pro-Russian minority population as leverage, but that is not going to happen at this point after nearly a decade of civil war. I see the following possible outcomes for Russia and Ukraine:

1- A conflict freeze along the current borders, or close to it (including the small remainders of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts)

2- Russia keeps moving east and takes more territory on the left bank of the Dniepr, including Zaporizhia (about half of the cream-colored region in the above map)

3- The war keeps going for another year plus, the frontline collapses and Russia moves further in and annexes Kharkov, Odessa and the entirety of "Novorossiya" (green region below).



(2) is the most likely outcome, Putin has hinted that he would use Odessa and access to the Black Sea as bargaining chips for Ukraine becoming neutral and demilitarizing in a long-term settlement.

(1) is only possible if Trump forces Ukraine towards a settlement early next year, that is really the best outcome for all parties IMHO in terms of stopping the bloodshed. Putin would be under some pressure to accept those terms from the global community (countries like India, Brazil and even China).

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But you HAVE been highly critical of Putin at times, almost going as far as suggesting that he step down. As such, it's not that difficult for you. You were very critical of his callousness and disregard for the lives of his citizens.

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I don't think I've ever seen Cal88 be this critical of Putin. When did this happen?

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It's happened on a few occasions. I think they've outright called for Putin's removal once for how incompetent it was of him to think they'd just steamroll Ukraine in a couple of weeks. He said that it was completely incompetent of Putin to not foresee the protracted battle he mired Russia in and the thousands of Russian souls Putin sent to graves.

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