NATO lost, they're embarrassed.

chazzed said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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As an aside, what the hell did you do to Yogi? That Bernie bro is obsessed with your messages.

---

Probably thoroughly embarrassed him in some comment some time ago and now I'm on the Revenge List.

---

It would be amusing if it weren't a bit unsettling.

---

I mean, the dude got banned by the owner years ago and kept thinking up different names just so he could come back and talk trash. He's nothing if not persistent.

dajo9 said:

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Cal88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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sycasey said:

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Aunburdened said:

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sycasey said:

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Cal88 said:

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I haven't watched that debate between Mearsheimer and McFaul, but the notion that the latter could win in a debate about Ukraine is pretty misguided.

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They literally poll the audience before and after the debate. People moved away from Mearsheimer's position after being exposed to it and the rebuttals. Scoreboard.

---

Scoreboard

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Yes, the battle lines have been dug in roughly this formation for some time now. A grinding quagmire, as I expected it would be.

There is not going to be any real "winner" in this war. It's a very expensive mistake.

---

That map really is a humiliation for Russia

---

The territorial aspect of this war doesn't tell the real picture, the casualties do - near 1.5 million Ukrainian/NATO KIA vs 120,000 Russian.

When Germany surrendered at the end of WW1 on November 1918, France and Belgium were still occupied by Germany, and there was no German territory that was occupied by the Allies, the German army just collapsed from exhaustion from 4 years of a war of attrition forcing Wilhelm II to abdicate and surrender.



It is pretty obvious that the Ukraine war is similar to WW1, it is also a war of attrition. This being said, the Russians have been gaining ground all across the frontlines in the last 2 years, the situation now in Ukraine is not unlike that in the later stages of WW1.

It is also obvious that this war and the rate of losses is unsustainable for Ukraine,

---

It's still a humiliation for Putin. Russia is fighting a former satellite state, not a great power of the world.

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An army of 2 million men, with a military budget over $100 billion and the full logistical support of NATO.

sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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sycasey said:

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chazzed said:

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As an aside, what the hell did you do to Yogi? That Bernie bro is obsessed with your messages.

---

Probably thoroughly embarrassed him in some comment some time ago and now I'm on the Revenge List.

---

It would be amusing if it weren't a bit unsettling.

---

I mean, the dude got banned by the owner years ago and kept thinking up different names just so he could come back and talk trash. He's nothing if not persistent.

---

lol

Let us go with "persistent" for now, especially with the holidays right around the corner.

Basic fact that is never addressed by the Ukraine war proponents: most Ukrainians don't want to fight. They realize it's a lost cause, and that their lives are very cheap in this war of choice sustained by corrupt leadership in Kiev and machiavellian geopolitics and financial interests abroad.

🇺🇦 Military recruiters beat the hell out of forced conscripts in prison … until they play along. pic.twitter.com/rMcBbx7LZq

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) November 18, 2025

Zel: there is no corruption in Ukraine.

"Are you claiming there is corruption in Ukraine?"
😂😂😂😂😂 pic.twitter.com/iP1MuzVNII

— Richard (@ricwe123) November 19, 2025

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

The Russian language would be one of the official languages in Ukraine, along with Ukrainian.

Ukraine reducing its army by half is a better proposal than what they were about to sign in Istanbul in 22.

Questions would be the return of the seized $300 billion, a portion of which would be dedicated to reconstruction, and the balance of the Kherson and Zaporizhie oblasts which are still under Ukrainian control that Russia claimed. The Russians could compromise on these in return for the US and NATO recognizing Crimea and the Donbas as Russian territory.

The Russians do have war fatigue, they have lost over 100,000 men and it might take at least another 50k to 100k for them to conquer all the Russian parts of Ukraine. The Russian economy has fared well so far, but strains will start to appear if this war keeps up another year or two.

Ukrainians have paid an exorbitant price with well over a million dead, and several hundred thousands more prospective KIAs if this war goes on. Kiev might take this deal now as their army has been showing some serious strains and might collapse if the war keeps going for another year.

If this settlement goes through, it will be a godsend, better late than never!

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

---

A lot of people in Russia are not going to be happy with this type of "Istanbul Plus" settlement, they see the outcome of the war as more or less settled and want the Russian army to move all the way to Odessa. Putin is not a hawk in Russia, good for him, and for the hundreds of thousands who aren't going to die next year if this deal holds.

Trump is a realist, he sees this deal as a way to avoid a humiliating Saigon rooftop/Kabul moment in '26 or '27. I think a lot of the negotiation with Putin and the EU is going to center around the return of the $300 billion seized Russian funds, that is going to be a hard piece to swallow for European leaders and bankers.

When does Ukraine sign on?

When do we pull their funding?

Apparently the Russians have made big advances in the south, hitting on the most poorly defended spots, and could be in a position to outflank the east-west southern defensive line through the city of Huliaipole, the wedge where the line of contact turns from horizontal to vertical.



That might underscore a sense of urgency in the realist NATO camp.

Colonel MacGregor always said the Dniper River was a natural dividing line Russia may have had as a goal. The maps I looked at were never clear to me, and Russia was moving deliberately.

Has Russia already created defensive positions in conquered territories? Started rebuilding key cities, or waiting for an official peace deal?

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

---

A lot of people in Russia are not going to be happy with this type of "Istanbul Plus" settlement, they see the outcome of the war as more or less settled and want the Russian army to move all the way to Odessa. Putin is not a hawk in Russia, good for him, and for the hundreds of thousands who aren't going to die next year if this deal holds.

Trump is a realist, he sees this deal as a way to avoid a humiliating Saigon rooftop/Kabul moment in '26 or '27. I think a lot of the negotiation with Putin and the EU is going to center around the return of the $300 billion seized Russian funds, that is going to be a hard piece to swallow for European leaders and bankers.

---

The biggest issue I see here is that Ukraine won't want to accept any agreement without some kind of security guarantee. Being asked to pare down their military and let Russian be an official language doesn't suggest that they are safe from a future Russian invasion. What prevents that?

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

---

A lot of people in Russia are not going to be happy with this type of "Istanbul Plus" settlement, they see the outcome of the war as more or less settled and want the Russian army to move all the way to Odessa. Putin is not a hawk in Russia, good for him, and for the hundreds of thousands who aren't going to die next year if this deal holds.

Trump is a realist, he sees this deal as a way to avoid a humiliating Saigon rooftop/Kabul moment in '26 or '27. I think a lot of the negotiation with Putin and the EU is going to center around the return of the $300 billion seized Russian funds, that is going to be a hard piece to swallow for European leaders and bankers.

---

The biggest issue I see here is that Ukraine won't want to accept any agreement without some kind of security guarantee. Being asked to pare down their military and let Russian be an official language doesn't suggest that they are safe from a future Russian invasion. What prevents that?

---

What would be the motive for a Russian invasion of Ukraine if Ukraine is neutral, and doesn't mistreat its Russian minority?

In any case, the first response from Kiyv to this potential deal is negative, they haven't budged on any territorial concession. Trump could force their hand, but he would have to also force the EU and NATO first, not sure if that is going to happen. It might happen though later next year as the military situation becomes more untenable for Ukraine.

Ukraine's representative at the United Nations has rejected the Trump peace plan.

Here is the summary:

1) We'll make no concessions and nothing is up for negotiation
2) We need your money
3) The only way this ends is if you give us money and we winpic.twitter.com/IYX9smsDYS

— Wall Street Mav (@WallStreetMav) November 20, 2025

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

---

A lot of people in Russia are not going to be happy with this type of "Istanbul Plus" settlement, they see the outcome of the war as more or less settled and want the Russian army to move all the way to Odessa. Putin is not a hawk in Russia, good for him, and for the hundreds of thousands who aren't going to die next year if this deal holds.

Trump is a realist, he sees this deal as a way to avoid a humiliating Saigon rooftop/Kabul moment in '26 or '27. I think a lot of the negotiation with Putin and the EU is going to center around the return of the $300 billion seized Russian funds, that is going to be a hard piece to swallow for European leaders and bankers.

---

The biggest issue I see here is that Ukraine won't want to accept any agreement without some kind of security guarantee. Being asked to pare down their military and let Russian be an official language doesn't suggest that they are safe from a future Russian invasion. What prevents that?

---

What would be the motive for a Russian invasion of Ukraine if Ukraine is neutral, and doesn't mistreat its Russian minority?

In any case, the first response from Kiyv to this potential deal is negative, they haven't budged on any territorial concession. Trump could force their hand, but he would have to also force the EU and NATO fist, not sure if that is going to happen. It might happen though later next year as the military situation becomes more untenable for Ukraine.

Ukraine's representative at the United Nations has rejected the Trump peace plan.

Here is the summary:

1) We'll make no concessions and nothing is up for negotiation
2) We need your money
3) The only way this ends is if you give us money and we winpic.twitter.com/IYX9smsDYS

— Wall Street Mav (@WallStreetMav) November 20, 2025

---

Yeah, this kind of thing will happen when you only negotiate with one side.

The winning side which isn't on drugs, and didn't work as a transvestite comedian. The side which has overwhelming advantages.

Colonel MacGregor on Germany - he believes..

- they'll want out of EU and NATO
- Orban at 4:30
- two Ukranians pinned w massive fraud fled to... Israel
- Russia and Germany have a working relationship that goes back 300 years

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

BIG if true:

BREAKING:

🇺🇲🇷🇺🇺🇦 Trump and Putin have reached a deal on Ukraine behind closed doors, mainly on Russian conditions - Axios reports

According to the new plan the US and other countries will recognize Crimea and Donbas as legitimate Russian territory.

Reducing Ukraine’s armed… pic.twitter.com/yg076B5taO

— Megatron (@Megatron_ron) November 19, 2025

---

Wait, does this mean recognizing Russian as the official state language in the remaining Ukraine territory? I can't see that flying.

Requiring that Ukraine reduce its own military is also just basically making them a sitting duck for the next invasion.

---

This is not confirmed, might be just a balloon proposal.

---

I don't doubt that if Putin is just talking to Trump without the Ukrainians or EU involved it will just be an "everything we want" proposal from Putin. We'll see.

---

A lot of people in Russia are not going to be happy with this type of "Istanbul Plus" settlement, they see the outcome of the war as more or less settled and want the Russian army to move all the way to Odessa. Putin is not a hawk in Russia, good for him, and for the hundreds of thousands who aren't going to die next year if this deal holds.

Trump is a realist, he sees this deal as a way to avoid a humiliating Saigon rooftop/Kabul moment in '26 or '27. I think a lot of the negotiation with Putin and the EU is going to center around the return of the $300 billion seized Russian funds, that is going to be a hard piece to swallow for European leaders and bankers.

---

The biggest issue I see here is that Ukraine won't want to accept any agreement without some kind of security guarantee. Being asked to pare down their military and let Russian be an official language doesn't suggest that they are safe from a future Russian invasion. What prevents that?

---

What would be the motive for a Russian invasion of Ukraine if Ukraine is neutral, and doesn't mistreat its Russian minority?

In any case, the first response from Kiyv to this potential deal is negative, they haven't budged on any territorial concession. Trump could force their hand, but he would have to also force the EU and NATO fist, not sure if that is going to happen. It might happen though later next year as the military situation becomes more untenable for Ukraine.

Ukraine's representative at the United Nations has rejected the Trump peace plan.

Here is the summary:

1) We'll make no concessions and nothing is up for negotiation
2) We need your money
3) The only way this ends is if you give us money and we winpic.twitter.com/IYX9smsDYS

— Wall Street Mav (@WallStreetMav) November 20, 2025

---

Yeah, this kind of thing will happen when you only negotiate with one side.

---

Mostly because the other side has refused to make any concessions towards a final settlement. And that happens to be the side that has already lost over a million soldiers, and is all but guaranteed to lose this war. Ukraine has had over 160,000 deserters this year to date. The Kiyv government is not representative of Ukraine, the majority of its citizens wanting to settle this war.

🇺🇦 RECORD DESERTIONS SHAKE UKRAINE’S MILITARY - 21,000 FLED IN A SINGLE MONTH

Over 21,000 recruits abandoned the Ukrainian army before even reaching the front lines, just in the last month.

Since 2022, over 280,000 cases of desertion or unauthorized absence have been logged.… https://t.co/rZwUgv6Hu5 pic.twitter.com/YtcNKaxvwm

— Mario Nawfal (@MarioNawfal) November 18, 2025

How much longer until Putin88 earns his pension and can retire from the Propaganda Department?

Haven't listened to him in a while, but MacGregor recently said the billionaires are pushing Zelensky to keep the war going. But if he's not careful, Putin could go all the way to Poland.

CDM also suggested the idea that Trump may be trying to capture mineral wealth from Venezuela, but that it would be another military quagmire.

dajo9 said:

---

How much longer until Putin88 earns his pension and can retire from the Propaganda Department?

---

You have to resort to personal attacks for two reasons. One, you can't refute my content, and two, you have severe character flaws.

Russia announces major upgrade to key Donbass port

Plans have been unveiled for a new cargo facility in the city of Mariupol, which was liberated from Ukrainian troops in 2022

The Russian government has announced plans for a major upgrade to the cargo port in the city of Mariupol, in the country's Donetsk People's Republic (DPR). The city was largely in ruins following a fierce battle between Russia and Ukraine in spring 2022.

Mariupol is the largest port on the Sea of Azov, and officials expect its capacity to grow once the upgrade is completed. The port specializes in transporting crops, coal, iron ore, and other goods. It connects Russia to Trkiye, North Africa, and the Middle East through several major maritime routes.

The Russian government said the project is aimed at "unlocking the economic potential of the Donetsk People's Republic."

The DPR, along with the neighboring Lugansk People's Republic (LPR), seceded from Ukraine following the Western-backed coup in Kiev in 2014. The two territories, along with the regions of Zaporozhye and Kherson, joined Russia following referendums in September 2022.

https://www.rt.com/russia/628075-russia-mariupol-port-project-donbass/

Trump's latest policy 180 on the war in Ukraine could strike deep into Russian territory

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-latest-policy-180-war-150657648.html


It's such a stark change, it is perhaps forgivable the messaging is garbled.

US President Donald Trump is considering supplying Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine, according to his Vice President JD Vance.

"We are having conversations this very minute about that issue," Vance told "Fox News Sunday," adding Trump will make a "final determination."

Trump's envoy to Ukraine, Keith Kellogg, said the same day he believed Ukraine had the authorization to strike deep into Russia. "Use the ability to hit deep," he said. "There are no such things as sanctuaries." Kellogg later clarified his remarks as only referring to public statements from Vance and US Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and not a fresh insight into White House thinking. But Trump's team are either seriously considering supplying Tomahawks whose very nature means they are really only for long-range strikes into Russia or they want everyone to think they are.

ADVERTISEMENT

Forty-three days ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin was walking on a red carpet into The Beast in Alaska. But now the Kremlin are having to respond to the idea of the US's most effective long-range missile being supplied to a foe that, only seven months ago, Trump said "had no cards." Days after Trump's Truth Social posting that Ukraine could take back all occupied territory, this is another policy 180, but one with long-range teeth.

First made famous in the 1991 Gulf War, the Tomahawk is reserved for the US's closest allies including the United Kingdom and Japan. Its four models range up to the latest version, Block IV, which can feed back live information on targets below, permitting a change during flight. The US would not supply the weapons but instead sell them to Europe to pass on to Kyiv. But have no doubt, that will not allay Moscow's concerns the Trump administration is massively escalating and improving Ukraine's capabilities here.


….it continues via the link

Kellogg is an idiot.

Leaked Russia Peace proposal - looks solid, but how to get Zelensky to move?

28 Points Of The Leaked Russian-Ukrainian Peace Deal Framework

https://survivethenews.com/analyzing-all-28-points-of-the-leaked-russian-ukrainian-peace-deal-framework/

movielover said:

---

Kellogg is an idiot.

---

< ignore ML Off >
alll of T's flunkies are idiots, duh
< ignore ML On >

movielover said:

---

Leaked Russia Peace proposal - looks solid, but how to get Zelensky to move?

28 Points Of The Leaked Russian-Ukrainian Peace Deal Framework

https://survivethenews.com/analyzing-all-28-points-of-the-leaked-russian-ukrainian-peace-deal-framework/

---

Many blocking elements for Russia, like the takeover of their seized $300 billion.

"This is allegedly the 28 points of the peace plan, which will end over 11 years of proxy war:
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.

2. A full and comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine, and Europe. All the ambiguities of the past 30 years will be considered resolved.

3. Russia is expected not to invade neighbouring countries, while NATO will not expand further.

4. A US-mediated dialogue between Russia and NATO will be held to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.

6. The Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.

7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its charters a provision stating that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

10. US guarantee:
The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.
If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive, coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory, and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
- If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be considered null and void.

11. Ukraine has the right to EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is under consideration.

12. A robust global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including, but not limited to:

a. Establishment of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in high-growth industries, including technology, data centers, and artificial intelligence.

b. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly restore, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.

c. Joint efforts to rebuild war-torn areas to restore, reconstruct, and modernise cities and residential areas.

d. Infrastructure development.

e. Mining of minerals and natural resources

f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts

13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:

a. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.

b. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement to promote mutual development in energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centers, Arctic rare earth metal mining projects, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.

c. Russia will be invited to re-join the G8.

14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:

$100 billion of frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led reconstruction and investment efforts in Ukraine. The United States will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will contribute $100 billion to increase the volume of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remaining frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russia investment vehicle, which will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and expanding common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.

15. A joint US-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure implementation of all the provisions of this agreement.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its non-aggression policy toward Europe and Ukraine.

17. The US and Russia will agree to extend the nuclear non-proliferation and arms control treaties, including START I.

18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

19. The Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant will be started under IAEA supervision, and the electricity generated will be shared equally between Russia and Ukraine - 50:50.

20. Both countries commit to implementing educational programs in schools and society aimed at understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:

a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.

b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.

c. All Nazi ideology and activity must be rejected and prohibited.

21. Territories:
a. Crimea, Luhansk, and Donetsk will be recognized de facto as Russian, including by the United States.

b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which means de facto recognition along the line of contact.

c. Russia will give up other agreed upon territories that it controls outside the five regions.

d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk oblast they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognized as belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.

22. After agreeing on future territorial agreements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these agreements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply if this commitment is violated.

23. Russia will not impede Ukraine's use of the Dnieper River for commercial activity, and agreements will be reached on the free transportation of grain through the Black Sea.

24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:

a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an "all for all" basis.

b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.

c. A family reunification program will be implemented.

d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.

25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.

26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive a full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to pursue claims or consider any further grievances.

27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by a Peace Council chaired by President Trump. Violations will be subject to sanctions.

28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides withdraw to the agreed-upon points to begin implementing the agreement."

I like the US guarantee of Ukraine's sovereignty. Anybody have thoughts?

oski003 said:

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I like the US guarantee of Ukraine's sovereignty. Anybody have thoughts?

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Let Europe send their own troops and arms to protect those poor helpless corrupt Nazis. I think Germany should take the lead there.

CDM says the billionaires want the war to continue. Blackrock, State Street, Military Industrial Complex, and aimless, spineless European leaders.

NPR: Putin says U.S. plan for Ukraine could form the basis for a final peace settlement

https://www.npr.org/2025/11/21/g-s1-98791/ukraine-russia-war-us-peace-plan

oski003 said:

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I like the US guarantee of Ukraine's sovereignty. Anybody have thoughts?

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Wouldn't this basically require a US military commitment?

sycasey said:

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oski003 said:

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I like the US guarantee of Ukraine's sovereignty. Anybody have thoughts?

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Wouldn't this basically require a US military commitment?

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I imagine it commits us to a base in Ukraine, but we are getting reimbursed for it, right?