calbear93 said:I am probably older than you. I am turning 52 this year, so past my midpoint. If I had to guess, you are probably in your 40s. While I was generally liberal in my youth, I still remember the crappy economy from the Carter years when I was in early elementary school years and the inspirational character of the Reagan years. Didn't become a fiscal conservative until much later in life after I started understanding finances and human nature, but I think I believed the logic of it even before Berkeley.dajo9 said:calbear93 said:Well, you could not be for unions and still be for broad immigrations back in the 80s. Also, a majority of the Republicans voted the same 1986 immigration reform and control act that provided amnesty but also required verification by employers. And Reagan pushed for the passage and signed it. The fiscal conservatives, like the Koch brothers, have always been for robust immigration. The social conservatives and labor friendly liberals who wanted higher wages and protection of jobs were against immigration. Sanders was not the only one.dajo9 said:calbear93 said:Unions and fear of immigrants taking jobs from middle class or lowering wages for Americans. Bernie Sanders was the typical, union-protecting liberal as opposed to open competition, global economy and trade treaties and bringing the smartest to innovate that was more common to fiscal conservatives who wanted more favorable conditions for corporations to compete globally. His position was more closely aligned with social conservatives who didn't want the social impact from immigration. However, the general republican position was similar to what Reagan, Bush, etc. supported, which was robust LEGAL immigration to stimulate economy, generate innovation, and reduce cost of living.dajo9 said:calbear93 said:BearHunter said:calbear93 said:Only when Trump was pushing it as a counter to a permanent shutdown. But then the far right strangely took over the mantle when Biden became president. And the Democrats then took the mantle of mocking the shutdown when implemented by China and zero-COVID policy.BearHunter said:
The Democratic Party have standards when it comes to the highest offices in the land. See Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Don't forget, these two were originally anti-vaxxers and then they flip flopped.
Of course, Biden is going to now say he did not trust Trump and not that he did not trust the COVID vaccines whose development accelerated under Trump. So, are the Republicans now entitled to distrust vaccines because Biden is pushing it? Biden was the first one to make the COVID vaccine a political and not a scientific matter. For me, I was not going to trust any political hack on medical advice. I trusted scientists and my doctors who told me to get the vaccine, and so I did, And I am glad I did just like I am glad I am vaccinated against whole gamut of diseases we have overcome through progress.
The Overton window has been shifting to the left for some time, there is no major representation of the far right in DC.
The political and media hacks you say you distrust are sometimes the very ones who quote the scientists and doctors you trust. This pandemic was never about trusting the science, it was about trusting the scientists that the media and ruling class favored.
The far right seems too much like the nationalistic, immigration hating left from when I became a conservative.
A sentence like this is perplexing to me. I don't think we are very much different in age. Yet I would say the nationalistic, immigrant hating right is part of why I became a liberal.
Look up Bernie Sanders' immigration position and how it has evolved only recently when he ran for president. The far left position was anti-immigration and protecting manufacturing and farm jobs in the US. Bernie's position was that having an open border will make us poor and put Americans out of employment.
I don't care about Bernie Sanders positions back then. He was on an island unto himself. Senate Democrats voted 34-8 in favor of the 1986 Immigration legislation.The last time Democrats hosted their national convention in Chicago, the world got the 1996 DNC Macarena.pic.twitter.com/ozMV1TEipm
— Jason Calvi (@JasonCalvi) April 11, 2023
Maybe you are a little older than me because I've never related to a Democratic Party controlled by labor unions. Guys like Gephardt and Daschle were fossils who needed to go, in my view.
My support for immigration is fairly limited for wage reasons, though I'm no union guy. I support the diversity our country has. What repulsed me about the Republican Party was their hate of the immigrant. They loved the cheap labor. They didn't like the immigrant. Growing up, Republican kids were the ones full of racist comments. Democratic kids had more diverse friendships. That was my experience.
No, we are pretty close in age. My family did well in the Carter years but never recovered financially from the early 80s recession. My Dad got wiped out. I never related to the Reagan years. The 80s were the poorest time for my family. My family was basically broke until the Clinton years. Also, the reduction in crime of the Clinton years made daily life extremely improved regardless of the size of your wallet.
To me, Republicans didn't respect my gay family member, my Hispanic friends or girlfriends, or my women's advocate mother. They really only seemed to respect white men, which I couldn't relate to. Plus, their economics seemed like obvious bs to get the rich richer. Again, just my experience.
