I was hoping that I wouldn't have to deal with the "Houthis are humanitarian freedom fighters" argument in here, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this latest version of brain-dead anti-Americanism has found its way to the usual suspects. So let's talk about it.

You all know who the Houthis are, right? What does it say on their flag? Exactly this:

Quote:

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"God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"

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But sure, they care about saving lives. Sure.

What were the Houthis doing that precipitated these strikes by US and UK forces? They were attacking civilian ships indiscriminately. Not just Israeli ships. That's not freedom fighting, that's just terrorism. Sure, they claim that the only ships they attack are those headed to Israeli ports. They are often wrong.

It's fine to be skeptical of American military interventions. I usually am too. But you don't have to act like militant Jihadist groups who want to kill all the Jews are the good guys now. Again, ridiculous.

Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

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So far, the only people who are trying to stop Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza are U.S. protesters, pro-Palestinian protesters throughout the world, the entire U.N. (other than the U.S. & Israel), the Houthis, Hezbollah, and South Africa, in the International Criminal Court.

The rest of the world can see that Israel can't kill its way to peace. Official U.S. policy for Israel & the Palestinians is a 2-state solution. But Netanyahu and the Likudniks refuse to even consider it. Forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza has been their plan all along, and they clearly intend to carry out their ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu wants a wider war. He wants the U.S. to attack Iran.

At the moment, the residents of Gaza are facing starvation, dehydration, and disease. All sanitation systems & water systems are no longer functioning. If there isn't a cease-fire or large-scale intervention, millions of Palestinians may die.

U.S. politicians & corporate media are indifferent to this level of human suffering, having "invested" $billions in the Saudis' attacks on Houthi civilians in Yemen, and having "invested" $Trillions of U.S. taxpayer $$ (that's OUR money, guys) in our regime-change wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Africa, and around the world.

Look up the term "Blowback."

cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

So far, the only people who are trying to stop Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza are U.S. protesters, pro-Palestinian protesters throughout the world, the entire U.N. (other than the U.S. & Israel), the Houthis, Hezbollah, and South Africa, in the International Criminal Court.

The rest of the world can see that Israel can't kill its way to peace. Official U.S. policy for Israel & the Palestinians is a 2-state solution. But Netanyahu and the Likudniks refuse to even consider it. Forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza has been their plan all along, and they clearly intend to carry out their ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu wants a wider war. He wants the U.S. to attack Iran.

At the moment, the residents of Gaza are facing starvation, dehydration, and disease. All sanitation systems & water systems are no longer functioning. If there isn't a cease-fire or large-scale intervention, millions of Palestinians may die.

U.S. politicians & corporate media are indifferent to this level of human suffering, having "invested" $billions in the Saudis' attacks on Houthi civilians in Yemen, and having "invested" $Trillions of U.S. taxpayer $$ (that's OUR money, guys) in our regime-change wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Africa, and around the world.

Look up the term "Blowback."

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Again: you can oppose Israel and Netanyahu's awful government without claiming the Jihadists "just want to save lives." They don't. They want their own murderous cult to have control.

cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

So far, the only people who are trying to stop Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza are U.S. protesters, pro-Palestinian protesters throughout the world, the entire U.N. (other than the U.S. & Israel), the Houthis, Hezbollah, and South Africa, in the International Criminal Court.

The rest of the world can see that Israel can't kill its way to peace. Official U.S. policy for Israel & the Palestinians is a 2-state solution. But Netanyahu and the Likudniks refuse to even consider it. Forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza has been their plan all along, and they clearly intend to carry out their ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu wants a wider war. He wants the U.S. to attack Iran.

At the moment, the residents of Gaza are facing starvation, dehydration, and disease. All sanitation systems & water systems are no longer functioning. If there isn't a cease-fire or large-scale intervention, millions of Palestinians may die.

U.S. politicians & corporate media are indifferent to this level of human suffering, having "invested" $billions in the Saudis' attacks on Houthi civilians in Yemen, and having "invested" $Trillions of U.S. taxpayer $$ (that's OUR money, guys) in our regime-change wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Africa, and around the world.

Look up the term "Blowback."

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How come you are proposing that way more people are going to die in Gaza than the actual population of Gaza?

cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

So far, the only people who are trying to stop Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza are U.S. protesters, pro-Palestinian protesters throughout the world, the entire U.N. (other than the U.S. & Israel), the Houthis, Hezbollah, and South Africa, in the International Criminal Court.

The rest of the world can see that Israel can't kill its way to peace. Official U.S. policy for Israel & the Palestinians is a 2-state solution. But Netanyahu and the Likudniks refuse to even consider it. Forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza has been their plan all along, and they clearly intend to carry out their ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu wants a wider war. He wants the U.S. to attack Iran.

At the moment, the residents of Gaza are facing starvation, dehydration, and disease. All sanitation systems & water systems are no longer functioning. If there isn't a cease-fire or large-scale intervention, millions of Palestinians may die.

U.S. politicians & corporate media are indifferent to this level of human suffering, having "invested" $billions in the Saudis' attacks on Houthi civilians in Yemen, and having "invested" $Trillions of U.S. taxpayer $$ (that's OUR money, guys) in our regime-change wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Africa, and around the world.

Look up the term "Blowback."

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Again: you can oppose Israel and Netanyahu's awful government without claiming the Jihadists "just want to save lives." They don't. They want their own murderous cult to have control.

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I guess we'll find out when Israel declares a cease-fire, or stops the genocide.

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If and when they do that, it will have little to do with the Houthis.

cbbass1 said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

So far, the only people who are trying to stop Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing in Gaza are U.S. protesters, pro-Palestinian protesters throughout the world, the entire U.N. (other than the U.S. & Israel), the Houthis, Hezbollah, and South Africa, in the International Criminal Court.

The rest of the world can see that Israel can't kill its way to peace. Official U.S. policy for Israel & the Palestinians is a 2-state solution. But Netanyahu and the Likudniks refuse to even consider it. Forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza has been their plan all along, and they clearly intend to carry out their ethnic cleansing.

Netanyahu wants a wider war. He wants the U.S. to attack Iran.

At the moment, the residents of Gaza are facing starvation, dehydration, and disease. All sanitation systems & water systems are no longer functioning. If there isn't a cease-fire or large-scale intervention, millions of Palestinians may die.

U.S. politicians & corporate media are indifferent to this level of human suffering, having "invested" $billions in the Saudis' attacks on Houthi civilians in Yemen, and having "invested" $Trillions of U.S. taxpayer $$ (that's OUR money, guys) in our regime-change wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Africa, and around the world.

Look up the term "Blowback."

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All of the suffering would end if Hamas would surrender. If that happened, the suffering of Gazans would quickly end.

It is Hamas - not Israel - that thinks it can "kill its was to peace" (which they define as eliminating Israel). And, more generally, the Palestinians can't kill their way to a two state solution. But here you are criticizing Israel and ignoring that simple fact.

You discredit - and reveal - yourself when you throw around words like "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" while defending Hamas and the Houthis - two organizations that would engage in ethnic cleansing and genocide if it was within their power.

And that brings me to my final point. Israel has it within its power to truly commit genocide/ethnic cleansing in Gaza and the West Bank (and for that matter with respect to Arab and Palestinian citizens of Israel). It has not, as objectively shown by the massive population growth in Gaza and the WB.

In contrast, what has happened to Jews in Gaza, WB, and Yemen (and for that matter, most other Arab countries)? What would Hamas and Yemen do if they could eliminate Israel and Jews? We don't have to guess - they've told they would do so. Yet here you are making your silly claims.

Its funny you claim you understand "blowback" but can't comprehend simple cause and effect as it applies to October 7 and Houthi attacks on international shipping. That has blowback too.

sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

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When someone makes an argument supporting the Houthis, it shows they hate freedom. They will support China, Russia, Iran, Hamas, and anyone else against the US and other democracies across the world. There are people who would rather live under repressive environments for many reasons, and they are very noisy about it. Supporting terrorist groups and dictator states is incredibly perverse but it's something that people who value freedom and democracy all over the world will have to continuously fight against because there will never be a shortage of people who want to destroy successful and free societies.

CaliforniaEternal said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

When someone makes an argument supporting the Houthis, it shows they hate freedom. They will support China, Russia, Iran, Hamas, and anyone else against the US and other democracies across the world. There are people who would rather live under repressive environments for many reasons, and they are very noisy about it. Supporting terrorist groups and dictator states is incredibly perverse but it's something that people who value freedom and democracy all over the world will have to continuously fight against because there will never be a shortage of people who want to destroy successful and free societies.

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Who said anything about "supporting" the Houthis?

They've simply declared that they'll keep attacking ships in the Bab al-Mandab Strait until Israel's illegal attacks on Palestinian civilians in Gaza stop.

Given the likelihood that continued attacks on innocent Palestinian civilians, and Israel's continuing genocide would likely plunge the entire region into a widespread war that the U.S. doesn't want to get sucked into (but that Netanyahu desperately wants), simply stopping the killing of civilians, and ending the conflict HAS to be pretty high on the list of options, and HAS to be considered.

Wouldn't it be worth it to stop the killing, declare a cease fire, and see if the Houthis actually stop, and let normal shipping continue? It would bring the spot price of crude oil down a couple $$/bbl.

Besides, how many more Palestinians do Netanyahu and the IDF 'need' to kill?

I'm not supporting the Houthis. I'm against genocide & ethnic cleansing -- no matter who is doing it.

Israeli AND Palestinian Lives Matter.

I also do value freedom and democracy -- which is why I criticize the ending of Our 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech in the U.S., and Netanyahu's ending of free speech and democracy in Israel.

How is it that in the U.S., several states have passed laws against calling for Boycotts, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel for their horrific treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, including the IDF's "mowing the grass"? And that was before 10/7.

Just ask the HS principal in Tel Aviv, who faces suspension for posting a Haaretz article that criticized Israeli media for not showing the reality of what the IDF is doing in Gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-29/ty-article/.premium/tel-aviv-high-school-principal-faces-suspension-for-sympathizing-with-suffering-of-gazans/

Israel is no longer a democracy.

Neither is the U.S.

A clear majority of Americans (including 80% of registered Democrats) support a cease-fire in Gaza, and are against Israel's genocide. Yet Biden & the "Democratic" Party continue their "unwavering support" for Israel, shipping the very 2000-lb bombs and illegal white phosphorus bombs that the IDF is dropping on Palestinian civilians, with U.S. intelligence support for targeting. Biden even bypassed Congress & circumvented U.S. law to get weapons to Israel, in full knowledge of Israel's genocidal plans.

Biden, the U.S., and WE, as American citizens, are Netanyahu's "un-indicted co-conspirators." I don't think you realize what kind of hell will result for Israel, for the U.S., and for the world if Biden & his Neocon administration don't force Israel to stop the killing. All Joe has to do is follow U.S. law, which forbids the use of U.S. weapons for war crimes.

Even worse, we have the Biden administration, and Congress, allowing Netanyahu -- NOT U.S. Voters -- dictating U.S. policy. Netanyahu relies on U.S. support for *anything* that he & Israel want to do:

Bibi To US: 'This Is Your War' After 100 Days

I simply want Israelis AND Palestinians to live in peace, and to determine for themselves what kind of society they want to live in.

More killing is NOT going to bring peace or security to Israel, or anyone. Just the opposite. Israel's genocide -- like our unprovoked, illegal invasion of Iraq -- is the best recruiting tool that the world's terrorists could ever want.

Despite the intentional killing of well over 20,000 innocent Palestinian civilians, the IDF is no closer to "destroying Hamas." Israel has strengthened Hamas.

Unfortunately, the U.S. Neocons and Israel's Likudniks refuse to learn this simple lesson.

cbbass1 said:

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I'm not supporting the Houthis.

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You kind of were when you said they were just trying to save lives. But glad to see you're not anymore.

oski003 said:

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cbbass1 said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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sycasey said:

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Of course I'm not against humanitarian aid to Gaza. I don't buy that the Houthis are helping that cause at all with their actions.

They're just taking it out on ship crews who have nothing to do with the conflict.

---

When someone makes an argument supporting the Houthis, it shows they hate freedom. They will support China, Russia, Iran, Hamas, and anyone else against the US and other democracies across the world. There are people who would rather live under repressive environments for many reasons, and they are very noisy about it. Supporting terrorist groups and dictator states is incredibly perverse but it's something that people who value freedom and democracy all over the world will have to continuously fight against because there will never be a shortage of people who want to destroy successful and free societies.

---

Who said anything about "supporting" the Houthis?

They've simply declared that they'll keep attacking ships in the Bab al-Mandab Strait until Israel's illegal attacks on Palestinian civilians in Gaza stop.

Given the likelihood that continued attacks on innocent Palestinian civilians, and Israel's continuing genocide would likely plunge the entire region into a widespread war that the U.S. doesn't want to get sucked into (but that Netanyahu desperately wants), simply stopping the killing of civilians, and ending the conflict HAS to be pretty high on the list of options, and HAS to be considered.

Wouldn't it be worth it to stop the killing, declare a cease fire, and see if the Houthis actually stop, and let normal shipping continue? It would bring the spot price of crude oil down a couple $$/bbl.

Besides, how many more Palestinians do Netanyahu and the IDF 'need' to kill?

I'm not supporting the Houthis. I'm against genocide & ethnic cleansing -- no matter who is doing it.

Israeli AND Palestinian Lives Matter.

I also do value freedom and democracy -- which is why I criticize the ending of Our 1st Amendment Freedom of Speech in the U.S., and Netanyahu's ending of free speech and democracy in Israel.

How is it that in the U.S., several states have passed laws against calling for Boycotts, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel for their horrific treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, including the IDF's "mowing the grass"? And that was before 10/7.

Just ask the HS principal in Tel Aviv, who faces suspension for posting a Haaretz article that criticized Israeli media for not showing the reality of what the IDF is doing in Gaza.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-29/ty-article/.premium/tel-aviv-high-school-principal-faces-suspension-for-sympathizing-with-suffering-of-gazans/

Israel is no longer a democracy.

Neither is the U.S.

A clear majority of Americans (including 80% of registered Democrats) support a cease-fire in Gaza, and are against Israel's genocide. Yet Biden & the "Democratic" Party continue their "unwavering support" for Israel, shipping the very 2000-lb bombs and illegal white phosphorus bombs that the IDF is dropping on Palestinian civilians, with U.S. intelligence support for targeting. Biden even bypassed Congress & circumvented U.S. law to get weapons to Israel, in full knowledge of Israel's genocidal plans.

Biden, the U.S., and WE, as American citizens, are Netanyahu's "un-indicted co-conspirators." I don't think you realize what kind of hell will result for Israel, for the U.S., and for the world if Biden & his Neocon administration don't force Israel to stop the killing. All Joe has to do is follow U.S. law, which forbids the use of U.S. weapons for war crimes.

Even worse, we have the Biden administration, and Congress, allowing Netanyahu -- NOT U.S. Voters -- dictating U.S. policy. Netanyahu relies on U.S. support for *anything* that he & Israel want to do:

Bibi To US: 'This Is Your War' After 100 Days

I simply want Israelis AND Palestinians to live in peace, and to determine for themselves what kind of society they want to live in.

More killing is NOT going to bring peace or security to Israel, or anyone. Just the opposite. Israel's genocide -- like our unprovoked, illegal invasion of Iraq -- is the best recruiting tool that the world's terrorists could ever want.

Despite the intentional killing of well over 20,000 innocent Palestinian civilians, the IDF is no closer to "destroying Hamas." Israel has strengthened Hamas.

Unfortunately, the U.S. Neocons and Israel's Likudniks refuse to learn this simple lesson.

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Here is a quick article to help you understand how the government works. The U.S. has never been a pure democracy.

https://ar.usembassy.gov/u-s-government/#:~:text=While%20often%20categorized%20as%20a,law%20of%20the%20United%20States.

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Neither is it the Consitutional Federal Republic that your embassy link describes. In a Republic, "the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power." Maybe you haven't noticed, but corporations, oligarchs, and even other nations have far more power over our elected representatives [of both parties] than American Voters.

Besides, when did American Voters "choose" our NeoCon foreign policy mission and military doctrine of "Full-Spectrum Dominance?"

Speaking of Our Constitution, check Article I, Section 8. Only Congress can declare War.

We also have laws against providing military assistance to nations who are committing war crimes. (See the Leahy Law.) This law has been routinely ignored for decades.

So much for small-d democracy.

It's looking like Bibi, the Israel Lobby, and "defense" contractors hold far more power over the U.S. Government than American Voters.

South Africa's case against Israel's genocide is extraordinarily well-researched & documented.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Regardless of how you feel about Israelis or Palestinians, it's worth reading.

In particular, check out the section labeled "Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officials and Others" on pgs 59-67. These are just a brief summaries of the expressions, which are documented, with links, in the footnotes.

For most cases of genocide, "Genocidal Intent",is rather difficult to prove. Not so with Israel in Gaza. From Netanyahu on down, at all levels of Israeli government and society, leaders and individuals have been proudly proclaiming and posting their genocidal intentions, especially in Hebrew on TV & social media.

Go to YouTube & search on "genocidal intent". Here are a few:

Briahna Joy Gray: New HORRIFYING Video Details Israeli GENOCIDE

'Annihilate Everyone': Israeli TV Promotes Genocidal Song

"A Textbook Case of Genocide": Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel's Assault on Gaza

Israeli video trend mocks Palestinians' suffering | Al Jazeera Newsfeed

The World's Most Documented Genocide in History

If you need more examples of genocidal intent to be convinced, here's an entire database:
https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-15th-January-2024-.pdf

Israel placed in solitary confinement "a grey-haired, softly spoken history and civics teacher" for "a series of Facebook posts he’d made, mourning the civilians killed in Gaza, criticizing the Israeli military, and warning against wars of revenge." https://t.co/jUYHySAYqw

— Kenneth Roth (@KenRoth) January 14, 2024

It's pretty clear you place all the blame on Israel and absolve the Palestinians of their heinous crimes and any agency for their own actions. If you think Hamas wants a two state solution, you are completely blind to everything they stand for and have done. It's the same thing with their supporters in the US. Hamas could have avoided this entire war if they hadn't launched a brutal massacre and stuck to their own territory in Gaza. There's no turning back the clock now and a ceasefire without a release of all hostages is not possible.

sycasey said:

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I was hoping that I wouldn't have to deal with the "Houthis are humanitarian freedom fighters" argument in here, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this latest version of brain-dead anti-Americanism has found its way to the usual suspects. So let's talk about it.

You all know who the Houthis are, right? What does it say on their flag? Exactly this:

Quote:

---

"God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"

---

But sure, they care about saving lives. Sure.

What were the Houthis doing that precipitated these strikes by US and UK forces? They were attacking civilian ships indiscriminately. Not just Israeli ships. That's not freedom fighting, that's just terrorism. Sure, they claim that the only ships they attack are those headed to Israeli ports. They are often wrong.

It's fine to be skeptical of American military interventions. I usually am too. But you don't have to act like militant Jihadist groups who want to kill all the Jews are the good guys now. Again, ridiculous.

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Notable that Biden admin couldn't cite a single death or injury caused by Houthis in Red Sea

This shows that the entire unauthorized US military escalation is solely about shipping delays & insurance costs

It's truly "Operation Late-Stage Capitalism," as @BRhodes jokingly said https://t.co/aL4wYhiEec pic.twitter.com/lA6ZWrR4Vb

— Erik Sperling 🌍 (@ErikSperling) January 17, 2024

Big C said:

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A week ago, if you had asked a thousand random Americans what country the Houthis are most closely associated with -- heck, a thousand random Cal students -- maybe 10-20 say Yemen.

Now that the Houthis are in the news, that number, fortunately, has risen to a gaudy 30-40. Or am I being overly optimistic?

I'm not gonna lie; I didn't know who the Houthis were until this week. Maybe I used to know and forgot. Who are the darn Houthis, anyway? Maybe we should call them the Who?this. (I just made that up, believe it or not!)

Maybe some folks who post here are Houthis: If you're a Houthi, enlighten us and tell us a little bit about yourself and your people! What do the Houthis think about Cal joining the ACC? How many times has the average Houthi watched a video of The Play? Do Houthis approve of the idea of NIL, philosophically?

Might make a fun poll question for the front page of this site: "Which of the following regular BI posters do you think is the most likely to be a Houthi?

a. concordtom
b. Shocky1 or Hanky1
c. bearister
d. movielover

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Cal88

Genocide Joe said:

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CaliforniaEternal said:

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There's no turning back the clock now and a ceasefire without a release of all hostages is not possible.

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The Israeli Haaretz newspaper interviews the army's 'ethics' chief, Asa Kasher, of Tel Aviv university, about two major incidents on October 7:

1. An Israeli commander ordered a tank to fire into a home in Kibbutz Be'eri knowing that there were 14 Israeli civilians inside,…

— Jonathan Cook (@Jonathan_K_Cook) January 18, 2024

The Israeli Haaretz newspaper interviews the army's 'ethics' chief, Asa Kasher, of Tel Aviv university, about two major incidents on October 7:

1. An Israeli commander ordered a tank to fire into a home in Kibbutz Be'eri knowing that there were 14 Israeli civilians inside, incinerating them.

2. Israeli helicopters fired missiles at dozens of cars with Israeli hostages inside, killing the inhabitants, again often by incinerating them.

In both cases, the official Israeli narrative is that Hamas was responsible for these 'barbaric' acts, supposedly justifying the genocide Israel is carrying out 'in response' against the civilian Palestinian population of Gaza.

Haaretz and Kasher ascribe these 'friendly fire' incidents to Israel's classified 'Hannibal directive', which requires soldiers to stop Israelis being taken hostage at all costs. Kasher thinks probably wrongly that the directive was misunderstood and misapplied by commanders on the day.

Urging an immediate investigation, Kasher says of the first incident: "How is it possible that a high ranking army official would give a command that so immediately and definitely endangers the life of so many civilians? It's just horrifying."

And he says of the second incident: "This sounds totally unacceptable from every aspect. Against orders. Against procedure. Against values. Against ethics. And possibly against the law."

Efforts to re-examine the Israeli government's October 7 narrative are all over the *Israeli* media. Many of the families of the Israelis killed on October 7 are demanding an investigation.

So how is it possible that the BBC and the rest of the western media keep revisiting the horrors of October 7 but *never* to raise these issues , even though they have been so prominent in the Israeli public space for many weeks?"

I see no reason for continuing to aid Israel as long as this guy is still in charge.

BREAKING: Netanyahu says he has told US that he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario https://t.co/et7vhAODor

— The Associated Press (@AP) January 18, 2024