The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

212,873 Views | 2617 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by tequila4kapp
Lets Go Brandon 11
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CaliforniaEternal said:

A good start but the rest of the filth needs to be swept up.


Israeli propagandist liar and favorite of CaliforniaEternal fired for telling lie so egregious, it was even too much for the genocidal maniacs who run Israel.



Quote:

According to Israel's Channel 12, Levy was on thin ice with his bosses in the PMO for several incidents including auditioning for Israel's version of Dancing with the Stars as well as tweeting a video that later turned out to be fake. Like other temporary government employees, Levy is believed to have been on a rolling contract which the government has said will not be renewed.

A government source told Channel 12 that a Twitter incident earlier this month was "the straw that broke the camel's back" referring to a spat between Levy and British Foreign Secretary David Cameron.

Earlier this month, David Cameron posted a message urging the Israeli government to increase aid shipments into the Gaza Strip.

Replying to the former Prime Minister, Levy, in a now-deleted tweet said: "I hope you are also aware there are NO limits on the entry of food, water, medicine, or shelter equipment into Gaza, and in fact the crossings have EXCESS capacity,"




CaliforniaEternal
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Neo-Nazis love to disrupt Berkeley City Council meetings. There sure are a lot of unabashed antisemites in Berkeley. These people would welcome their new Hamas and ISIS overlords to take over without a doubt.



Lets Go Brandon 11
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https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/03/gaza-war-indefensible-united-states/677896/
bear2034
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Unit2Sucks
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I'm sure these people think they are super persuasive.




Unit2Sucks
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Why hasn't Hamas released all of the hostages yet?

bearister
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Netanyahu critics mobilize in Israel


https://www.axios.com/2024/03/31/netanyahu-critics-mobilize-in-israel
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movielover
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dimitrig
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movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?
sycasey
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dimitrig said:

movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?


If the US military drove up to the border and said, "We are bringing this aid in," would Israel really say no?
Cal88
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sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?


If the US military drove up to the border and said, "We are bringing this aid in," would Israel really say no?

AIPAC would say no, they're at the top of the command chain when it comes to US foreign policy in the mideast.

There are hundreds of trucks loaded with supplies at the Egyptian border crossing that aren't allowed to come in.

The pier is also being set up in order to deport the Gaza population to Europe and N. America.
Unit2Sucks
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Israel recently took out Soleimani's replacement.

Cal88
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Mass atrocities by IDF a Al Shifa hospital, which they've occupied for 2 weeks:


dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?


If the US military drove up to the border and said, "We are bringing this aid in," would Israel really say no?

AIPAC would say no, they're at the top of the command chain when it comes to US foreign policy in the mideast.

There are hundreds of trucks loaded with supplies at the Egyptian border crossing that aren't allowed to come in.

The pier is also being set up in order to deport the Gaza population to Europe and N. America.


Egypt ain't the US.

This seems unnecessarily expensive and risky. Is that the goal?

BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?


If the US military drove up to the border and said, "We are bringing this aid in," would Israel really say no?


The pier is also being set up in order to deport the Gaza population to Europe and N. America.
LMAO. Aside from the fact that there is literally no basis for this claim, what makes you think Europe and North American countries would take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Gazans?

No country - certainly not Egypt nor any of the other Arab countries in proximity to Gaza - is willing to take even a small number of Palestinians. I wonder why? It is almost as if there is some factor at play that has nothing to do with Israel? But to acknowledge that, you'd have to give the Palestinians agency.

If Hamas turned over the remaining hostages, there would be an actual basis for ending the war. The international pressure on Israel to take that deal would be immense. Yet Hamas have refused to do so and instead are engaged in their typically cynical gambit of hoping that Hamas will survive by maximizing the suffering of Palestinians. And they have useful idiots like you - who make no demands on Hamas - to help them in that endeavor.

Countries at war typically are not expect to (and do not) attend to the needs of the enemy's population. You don't impose that standard on your friends the Russians, who have killed, starved and targeted civilians in their recent wars. Putin is denying Ukraine the ability to export goods and attacked key infrastructure (e.g., energy). Why are you not demanding that Putin feed and cloth the Ukrainians and provide them war making resources like fuel and other goods?

The Israeli's have gone well beyond what is required of any other country at war. And the delays in delivering aid are, once again, impeded by Hamas who steal supplies and attempt to import items that will be used for war making. Look no further than the tunnels to understand how Hamas has used the Palestinians resources. Of course the Israelis (and Egyptians for that matter) want to inspect every last truck and carton. As well they should.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286

Cal88
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BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

dimitrig said:

movielover said:




Why is this necessary? Israel won't allow the US to distribute aid via land?


If the US military drove up to the border and said, "We are bringing this aid in," would Israel really say no?


The pier is also being set up in order to deport the Gaza population to Europe and N. America.
LMAO. Aside from the fact that there is literally no basis for this claim, what makes you think Europe and North American countries would take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Gazans?

No country - certainly not Egypt nor any of the other Arab countries in proximity to Gaza - is willing to take even a small number of Palestinians. I wonder why? It is almost as if there is some factor at play that has nothing to do with Israel? But to acknowledge that, you'd have to give the Palestinians agency.

If Hamas turned over the remaining hostages, there would be an actual basis for ending the war. The international pressure on Israel to take that deal would be immense. Yet Hamas have refused to do so and instead are engaged in their typically cynical gambit of hoping that Hamas will survive by maximizing the suffering of Palestinians. And they have useful idiots like you - who make no demands on Hamas - to help them in that endeavor.

Countries at war typically are not expect to (and do not) attend to the needs of the enemy's population. You don't impose that standard on your friends the Russians, who have killed, starved and targeted civilians in their recent wars. Putin is denying Ukraine the ability to export goods and attacked key infrastructure (e.g., energy). Why are you not demanding that Putin feed and cloth the Ukrainians and provide them war making resources like fuel and other goods?

The Israeli's have gone well beyond what is required of any other country at war. And the delays in delivering aid are, once again, impeded by Hamas who steal supplies and attempt to import items that will be used for war making. Look no further than the tunnels to understand how Hamas has used the Palestinians resources. Of course the Israelis (and Egyptians for that matter) want to inspect every last truck and carton. As well they should.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286



Over 95% of Ukrainians killed by Russia are Ukrainian soldiers. The Russians have used over 5-7 million shells, but have not targeted civilians. No one is starving or being deprived of medical care in Ukraine as a result of Russian military operations, while the entire population of Gaza is currently starving, literally.

The opposite is true in Gaza wrt casualties, 95%+ of Gazans killed were civilians, the majority of which are women and children. The Israelis have systematically flattened most houses, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches - all civilian infrastructure. Their goal is to destroy and ethnically cleanse Gaza, to make it completely unlivable for civilians, not to liberate hostages.


bearister
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US national among World Central Kitchen staff killed in Gaza airstrike



https://mol.im/a/13262731
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Unit2Sucks
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BearGoggles said:



LMAO. Aside from the fact that there is literally no basis for this claim, what makes you think Europe and North American countries would take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Gazans?

No country - certainly not Egypt nor any of the other Arab countries in proximity to Gaza - is willing to take even a small number of Palestinians. I wonder why? It is almost as if there is some factor at play that has nothing to do with Israel? But to acknowledge that, you'd have to give the Palestinians agency.

If Hamas turned over the remaining hostages, there would be an actual basis for ending the war. The international pressure on Israel to take that deal would be immense. Yet Hamas have refused to do so and instead are engaged in their typically cynical gambit of hoping that Hamas will survive by maximizing the suffering of Palestinians. And they have useful idiots like you - who make no demands on Hamas - to help them in that endeavor.

Countries at war typically are not expect to (and do not) attend to the needs of the enemy's population. You don't impose that standard on your friends the Russians, who have killed, starved and targeted civilians in their recent wars. Putin is denying Ukraine the ability to export goods and attacked key infrastructure (e.g., energy). Why are you not demanding that Putin feed and cloth the Ukrainians and provide them war making resources like fuel and other goods?

The Israeli's have gone well beyond what is required of any other country at war. And the delays in delivering aid are, once again, impeded by Hamas who steal supplies and attempt to import items that will be used for war making. Look no further than the tunnels to understand how Hamas has used the Palestinians resources. Of course the Israelis (and Egyptians for that matter) want to inspect every last truck and carton. As well they should.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286


I have 88 on ignore but I would assume that he's still a proponent of Mearsheimer's "offensive realism" which would justify Israel using offensive capabilities to ensure there own survival (and in fact to increase their own power).

As you point out Hamas is still a threat to both the sovereignty of Israel (because Hamas is part of a larger anti-Israel movment supported and funded by other Middle Eastern states and Russia) and the safety and security of the Israeli people (protection of which is Israel's number one duty).

Mearsheimer would consider it foolish if, while applying the principles of offensive realism he generated, Israel were to prematurely cease this military action while Hamas and the enemies of Israel still pose a threat to their sovereignty and the safety of the Israeli people.

I should note that Mearsheimer is often criticized for not consistently applying his principles, like many people who defend Russia.

Of course, offensive realism doesn't justify atrocities nor does it justify war crimes (except when Russia is the criminal) so Israel should wage war consistent with international law. A lot of that is complicated by the fact that Hamas and the other enemies of Israel are using tactics which contravene international law (they don't use military uniforms or self-identify in any other way, they co-mingle military and civilian facilities like Al-Shifa) and they use human shields. Of particular note is that most of the hostages taken by Hamas have been held in "civilian" homes, some of which belonged to UNRWA workers, including school teachers, and some of which were apparently just civilian families.

If 88 were to apply his principles consistently, I would assume that he's been supportive of Netanyahu's efforts just like he has Putin's.

I guess one thing to note is that 88 is a shill for Putin and since Putin continues to support Hamas and Iran, that it may cloud 88's judgment and impact how he applies his "principles" to the Gaza conflict.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

BearGoggles said:



LMAO. Aside from the fact that there is literally no basis for this claim, what makes you think Europe and North American countries would take hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Gazans?

No country - certainly not Egypt nor any of the other Arab countries in proximity to Gaza - is willing to take even a small number of Palestinians. I wonder why? It is almost as if there is some factor at play that has nothing to do with Israel? But to acknowledge that, you'd have to give the Palestinians agency.

If Hamas turned over the remaining hostages, there would be an actual basis for ending the war. The international pressure on Israel to take that deal would be immense. Yet Hamas have refused to do so and instead are engaged in their typically cynical gambit of hoping that Hamas will survive by maximizing the suffering of Palestinians. And they have useful idiots like you - who make no demands on Hamas - to help them in that endeavor.

Countries at war typically are not expect to (and do not) attend to the needs of the enemy's population. You don't impose that standard on your friends the Russians, who have killed, starved and targeted civilians in their recent wars. Putin is denying Ukraine the ability to export goods and attacked key infrastructure (e.g., energy). Why are you not demanding that Putin feed and cloth the Ukrainians and provide them war making resources like fuel and other goods?

The Israeli's have gone well beyond what is required of any other country at war. And the delays in delivering aid are, once again, impeded by Hamas who steal supplies and attempt to import items that will be used for war making. Look no further than the tunnels to understand how Hamas has used the Palestinians resources. Of course the Israelis (and Egyptians for that matter) want to inspect every last truck and carton. As well they should.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286


I have 88 on ignore but I would assume that he's still a proponent of Mearsheimer's "offensive realism" which would justify Israel using offensive capabilities to ensure there own survival (and in fact to increase their own power).

As you point out Hamas is still a threat to both the sovereignty of Israel (because Hamas is part of a larger anti-Israel movment supported and funded by other Middle Eastern states and Russia) and the safety and security of the Israeli people (protection of which is Israel's number one duty).

Mearsheimer would consider it foolish if, while applying the principles of offensive realism he generated, Israel were to prematurely cease this military action while Hamas and the enemies of Israel still pose a threat to their sovereignty and the safety of the Israeli people.

I should note that Mearsheimer is often criticized for not consistently applying his principles, like many people who defend Russia.

Of course, offensive realism doesn't justify atrocities nor does it justify war crimes (except when Russia is the criminal) so Israel should wage war consistent with international law. A lot of that is complicated by the fact that Hamas and the other enemies of Israel are using tactics which contravene international law (they don't use military uniforms or self-identify in any other way, they co-mingle military and civilian facilities like Al-Shifa) and they use human shields. Of particular note is that most of the hostages taken by Hamas have been held in "civilian" homes, some of which belonged to UNRWA workers, including school teachers, and some of which were apparently just civilian families.

If 88 were to apply his principles consistently, I would assume that he's been supportive of Netanyahu's efforts just like he has Putin's.

I guess one thing to note is that 88 is a shill for Putin and since Putin continues to support Hamas and Iran, that it may cloud 88's judgment and impact how he applies his "principles" to the Gaza conflict.

According to Mearsheimer, the Israelis are not engaging in "offensive realism" in Gaza, they are engaging in a genocidal campaign against the Palestinians, and I fully agree with him:



Mearsheimer has also stated that the Russians have gone out of their way to avoid civilian casualties in Ukraine, the numbers support his assertion.
bearister
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U.S. tells Iran it "had no involvement" in Israel strike


https://www.axios.com/2024/04/02/iran-embassy-syria-israel-strike-biden
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Lets Go Brandon 14
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bearister said:

US national among World Central Kitchen staff killed in Gaza airstrike

https://mol.im/a/13262731
Not only is Biden less moral than Trump, he stupider than him as well




bearister
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"Israel is better than the way this war is being waged. It is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. It is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the Israel Defense Forces.

The Israeli government needs to open more land routes for food and medicine today. It needs to stop killing civilians and aid workers today. It needs to start the long journey to peace today.

In the worst conditions, after the worst terrorist attack in its history, it's time for the best of Israel to show up. You cannot save the hostages by bombing every building in Gaza. You cannot win this war by starving an entire population."
Jose Andres, NYT
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bearister
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Bye, bye Bibi: Is the game up for Israel's great survivor Netanyahu?


https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2024/Apr/03/bye-bye-bibi-is-the-game-up-for-israels-great-survivor-netanyahu
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Lets Go Brandon 14
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bearister said:

"Israel is better than the way this war is being waged.
They're not.



Cal88
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Chef Andres, a sponsor and organizer of the humanitarian food kitchen just targeted by Israel, affirms that the 3-car aid convoy was deliberately followed and blown up by Israel:

Big C
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bearister said:

Bye, bye Bibi: Is the game up for Israel's great survivor Netanyahu?


https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2024/Apr/03/bye-bye-bibi-is-the-game-up-for-israels-great-survivor-netanyahu

At this point, I think Israel's only hope is to make Netanyahu a sacrificial lamb. And even then...

It's unfortunate.
Chapman_is_Gone
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Jose Andres is good at making lemonade when life gives him lemons. In this case, maybe he can use the victims to make a few large vats of paella to feed the hungry Gazans?
bearister
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Israel 'probably even knew the NAMES of the people in aid convoy'



https://mol.im/a/13270847
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Unit2Sucks
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bearister said:

Israel 'probably even knew the NAMES of the people in aid convoy'



https://mol.im/a/13270847
It was a horrible tragedy. Israel needs to do something about its AI targeting. Period. This isn't the first time that it's screwed up. Interfering with aid delivery is unbearable at this point.

Also, Hamas needs to release all hostages and unconditionally surrender. They have prolonged this long enough. There is no path to victory for Hamas, there never was. All they have done is made things worse for the people they pretend to care about. Once Hamas unconditionally surrenders, Israel can sweep and destroy the tunnels and return Gaza to the civilians, free of Hamas terrorists.

Everyone calling for a ceasefire should be calling for Hamas to surrender.
movielover
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Bloodlust?
bearister
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CIA 'warns Iran will attack Israel within 48 hours' as revenge for consulate strike - World News - News - Daily Express US


https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/133437/cia-warning-iran-attack-israel-consulate
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movielover
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Colonel Douglass McGregor has been warning about this for 18.months. We have no statesmen, no offramp.
Unit2Sucks
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bearister said:

CIA 'warns Iran will attack Israel within 48 hours' as revenge for consulate strike - World News - News - Daily Express US


https://www.the-express.com/news/world-news/133437/cia-warning-iran-attack-israel-consulate
Most people expected that killing the JCPOA would embolden Iran. Everyone knew the deal was flawed, but it at least gave Iran some carrots to remain in good standing with the West.

Killing the deal and putting them on sanctions removed the biggest external incentive they had to remain peaceful. Since then, Trump's laughable "maximum pressure" policy did nothing for the US. Tensions rose, Trump had Suliemani killed, Iran responded by launching 12 missiles at bases in Iraq hosting US forces, Trump lied and claimed no US forces were hurt, etc. Not that things were great during the JCPOA, but things clearly got worse when we backed out.

Biden tried to get things back on track and negotiated to re-enter the JCPOA, but most people can probably guess why Iran didn't trust the US and tried to extract concessions. Maximum pressure indeed.

This is the problem with stupid people who don't see the whole picture and think they are smart. Trump thought he was a genius on the talk show circuit by claiming he would cancel the JCPOA because a lot of fhe conservative talk radio guys he admired complained about it. But Trump was too stupid to realize the repercussions and the professionals that worked for him were unable to get Trump listen to reason. Unfortunately, he needed a picture book to explain things and this issue is far too complicated for even Chip Kelly's play calling system to communicate to Trump.

I hope Iran doesn't decide to attack but at this point there is very little we can do. Trump blew up our levers and we aren't in a position to use diplomacy. Israel is paying a steep price for it, as is Ukraine who has been under constant attack by weapons Iran has provided to Russia.
movielover
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Biden / Obama released tens of Billions of dollars to Iran. Then shortly thereafter came the terrorist attack on Israel.

Your blind illogical hatred also leaves out 5 Mideast peace deals.

Biden / Obama 3.0 / Blinken / NeoCons have us on the cusp of WWIII.
Lets Go Brandon 14
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