BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Muckieeye said:

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The total inability (or a lack of willingness) of many on here to correctly use terms like "socialism" "communism" "fascist" makes it impossible to have productive conversations.

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Kinda my point on the labeling. Just a dumb conversation when labeling Presidents and others.

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No different than the liberal or conservative label. They all have meaning and should be used appropriately. Trump is a fascist. I wouldn't say that about any other President. Trump tried to overturn an election he lost to stay in power. We've never had a communist President.

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People really shouldn't throw around things that aren't true like this. It's like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking it seriously when it is true.

Facism is generally understood to involve far more than contesting an election. It includes one party rule, abolition of competitive elections, suppression of opposition parties, state control of the media, systematic political violence, and permanent dictatorship. Trump left office on January 20, 2021, after Congress certified the election and the courts rejected his legal challenges. The constitutional transfer of power ultimately occurred.

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You are making the argument that Hitler wasn't a fascist until after he did all those things. No, Hitler was a fascist when he was powerless in Munich. Just like Trump is a fascist now who tried and failed to stay in power after losing, among other things.

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No, I'm making the argument that Trump isn't a fascist because he gave up power like every other president has. If he was a fascist, he wouldn't have relented power. Your argument is entirely dead in the water.

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Failure doesn't absolve him of his crimes no matter how much his supporters and ex supporters want to claim

dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Muckieeye said:

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The total inability (or a lack of willingness) of many on here to correctly use terms like "socialism" "communism" "fascist" makes it impossible to have productive conversations.

---

Kinda my point on the labeling. Just a dumb conversation when labeling Presidents and others.

---

No different than the liberal or conservative label. They all have meaning and should be used appropriately. Trump is a fascist. I wouldn't say that about any other President. Trump tried to overturn an election he lost to stay in power. We've never had a communist President.

---

People really shouldn't throw around things that aren't true like this. It's like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking it seriously when it is true.

Facism is generally understood to involve far more than contesting an election. It includes one party rule, abolition of competitive elections, suppression of opposition parties, state control of the media, systematic political violence, and permanent dictatorship. Trump left office on January 20, 2021, after Congress certified the election and the courts rejected his legal challenges. The constitutional transfer of power ultimately occurred.

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You are making the argument that Hitler wasn't a fascist until after he did all those things. No, Hitler was a fascist when he was powerless in Munich. Just like Trump is a fascist now who tried and failed to stay in power after losing, among other things.

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No, I'm making the argument that Trump isn't a fascist because he gave up power like every other president has. If he was a fascist, he wouldn't have relented power. Your argument is entirely dead in the water.

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Failure doesn't absolve him of his crimes no matter how much his supporters and ex supporters want to claim

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What fascist crimes are you speaking of?

BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Muckieeye said:

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The total inability (or a lack of willingness) of many on here to correctly use terms like "socialism" "communism" "fascist" makes it impossible to have productive conversations.

---

Kinda my point on the labeling. Just a dumb conversation when labeling Presidents and others.

---

No different than the liberal or conservative label. They all have meaning and should be used appropriately. Trump is a fascist. I wouldn't say that about any other President. Trump tried to overturn an election he lost to stay in power. We've never had a communist President.

---

People really shouldn't throw around things that aren't true like this. It's like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking it seriously when it is true.

Facism is generally understood to involve far more than contesting an election. It includes one party rule, abolition of competitive elections, suppression of opposition parties, state control of the media, systematic political violence, and permanent dictatorship. Trump left office on January 20, 2021, after Congress certified the election and the courts rejected his legal challenges. The constitutional transfer of power ultimately occurred.

---

You are making the argument that Hitler wasn't a fascist until after he did all those things. No, Hitler was a fascist when he was powerless in Munich. Just like Trump is a fascist now who tried and failed to stay in power after losing, among other things.

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No, I'm making the argument that Trump isn't a fascist because he gave up power like every other president has. If he was a fascist, he wouldn't have relented power. Your argument is entirely dead in the water.

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Failure doesn't absolve him of his crimes no matter how much his supporters and ex supporters want to claim

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What fascist crimes are you speaking of?

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The ones he was indicted for and then the DOJ dropped the charges because he won election and the DOJ doesn't prosecute sitting Presidents.

dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Muckieeye said:

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The total inability (or a lack of willingness) of many on here to correctly use terms like "socialism" "communism" "fascist" makes it impossible to have productive conversations.

---

Kinda my point on the labeling. Just a dumb conversation when labeling Presidents and others.

---

No different than the liberal or conservative label. They all have meaning and should be used appropriately. Trump is a fascist. I wouldn't say that about any other President. Trump tried to overturn an election he lost to stay in power. We've never had a communist President.

---

People really shouldn't throw around things that aren't true like this. It's like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking it seriously when it is true.

Facism is generally understood to involve far more than contesting an election. It includes one party rule, abolition of competitive elections, suppression of opposition parties, state control of the media, systematic political violence, and permanent dictatorship. Trump left office on January 20, 2021, after Congress certified the election and the courts rejected his legal challenges. The constitutional transfer of power ultimately occurred.

---

You are making the argument that Hitler wasn't a fascist until after he did all those things. No, Hitler was a fascist when he was powerless in Munich. Just like Trump is a fascist now who tried and failed to stay in power after losing, among other things.

---

No, I'm making the argument that Trump isn't a fascist because he gave up power like every other president has. If he was a fascist, he wouldn't have relented power. Your argument is entirely dead in the water.

---

Failure doesn't absolve him of his crimes no matter how much his supporters and ex supporters want to claim

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What fascist crimes are you speaking of?

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The ones he was indicted for and then the DOJ dropped the charges because he won election and the DOJ doesn't prosecute sitting Presidents.

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Indicted doesn't mean guilty, you know this

BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

Muckieeye said:

---

The total inability (or a lack of willingness) of many on here to correctly use terms like "socialism" "communism" "fascist" makes it impossible to have productive conversations.

---

Kinda my point on the labeling. Just a dumb conversation when labeling Presidents and others.

---

No different than the liberal or conservative label. They all have meaning and should be used appropriately. Trump is a fascist. I wouldn't say that about any other President. Trump tried to overturn an election he lost to stay in power. We've never had a communist President.

---

People really shouldn't throw around things that aren't true like this. It's like the boy who cried wolf, people stop taking it seriously when it is true.

Facism is generally understood to involve far more than contesting an election. It includes one party rule, abolition of competitive elections, suppression of opposition parties, state control of the media, systematic political violence, and permanent dictatorship. Trump left office on January 20, 2021, after Congress certified the election and the courts rejected his legal challenges. The constitutional transfer of power ultimately occurred.

---

You are making the argument that Hitler wasn't a fascist until after he did all those things. No, Hitler was a fascist when he was powerless in Munich. Just like Trump is a fascist now who tried and failed to stay in power after losing, among other things.

---

No, I'm making the argument that Trump isn't a fascist because he gave up power like every other president has. If he was a fascist, he wouldn't have relented power. Your argument is entirely dead in the water.

---

Failure doesn't absolve him of his crimes no matter how much his supporters and ex supporters want to claim

---

What fascist crimes are you speaking of?

---

The ones he was indicted for and then the DOJ dropped the charges because he won election and the DOJ doesn't prosecute sitting Presidents.

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Indicted doesn't mean guilty, you know this

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Do you think OJ Simpson is innocent?

Primaries are harder to poll than general elections. Turnout can swing wildly in different areas or among certain groups.

At 87% of the votes in, Stevens was only down by 1.4% of the votes.

Back up to 1.9% at 90%, and while it looks too close to call, NBC just called the race for El Sayed.

$60M spent against him to his $7M, impressive win!

sycasey said:

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Abdul El-Sayed is going to win the primary. Again we have an interesting dynamic where the "populist left" candidate draws more of his support from the college-educated upper class and the establishment candidate gets more from the working class. I don't say that as a moral judgment -- every vote counts the same -- but it does run against the narrative that the more "socialist" candidates tend to make.

Platner's polling was similar before he dropped out.

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College educated yes, but not "upper class." There are a lot of younger disillusioned white college grads struggling.. This is why terms like "middle " and "working" class are misleading.

BearlySane88 said:

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Interesting the way the votes shook out. I really don't see the blue collar voter going for El Sayed.

El Sayed winning with young, suburban, white & college educated voters and Stevens getting the votes of working class, rural & Black voters. Regardless of who wins, doesn’t this turn the DSA/leftist premise on its head? Which faction truly represents the most disenfranchised?

— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) August 5, 2026

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In Michigan, working class absolutely does not mean disenfranchised. This includes well paid, white, union workers who are against anything that could infringe on their "cadillac" health insurance plans.

dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Interesting the way the votes shook out. I really don't see the blue collar voter going for El Sayed.

El Sayed winning with young, suburban, white & college educated voters and Stevens getting the votes of working class, rural & Black voters. Regardless of who wins, doesn’t this turn the DSA/leftist premise on its head? Which faction truly represents the most disenfranchised?

— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) August 5, 2026

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In Michigan, working class absolutely does not mean disenfranchised. This includes well paid, white, union workers who are against anything that could infringe on their "cadillac" health insurance plans.

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In Michigan plenty of African Americans share those benefits.

sycasey said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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Interesting the way the votes shook out. I really don't see the blue collar voter going for El Sayed.

El Sayed winning with young, suburban, white & college educated voters and Stevens getting the votes of working class, rural & Black voters. Regardless of who wins, doesn’t this turn the DSA/leftist premise on its head? Which faction truly represents the most disenfranchised?

— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) August 5, 2026

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In Michigan, working class absolutely does not mean disenfranchised. This includes well paid, white, union workers who are against anything that could infringe on their "cadillac" health insurance plans.

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In Michigan plenty of African Americans share those benefits.

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I think Stevens also did relatively better amongst working-class Black voters in the primary. (Granted, that's probably the group most likely to "come home" and vote for whoever the Democrat is anyway.)

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"El-Sayed did not fare well in some of the state's African-American centers, signaling a potential weakness in the general election.

Of the 12 Michigan counties with at least 133,000 residents and a Black population of 11%, Stevens won seven by an average of 8.5 percentage points, including Wayne, Saginaw and Genesee counties.

El-Sayed won five inducing Ingham, Kalamazoo and Washtenaw by an average of 20.4 percentage points. Those counties, though, are also home to big universities that are often more progressive.

He was the first Michigan Democrat to win a statewide primary without carrying Detroit since the 2018 primary, when now-Gov. Gretchen Whitmer narrowly lost the city to Shri Thanedar.

Stevens won more than 60% of the vote in Detroit, the state's largest Black-majority city, according to unofficial results. "

https://bridgemi.com/michigan-government/how-abdul-el-sayed-won-michigan-big-turnout-liberal-towns-walkup-votes/Com

Anarchistbear said:

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Couldn’t have said it better myself. pic.twitter.com/cmuxfIq0iT

— Dr. Abdul El-Sayed (@AbdulElSayed) August 6, 2026

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Your added insightful commentary was quite provocative.

Ugly racism, El-Sayed is so far above it all. Looking forward to his great future work

https://www.ms.now/opinion/abdul-el-sayed-trump-racist-mike-rogers-republicans

Thank you MS Now for covering this.

VOTE BLUE and VOTE Gavin and El-Sayed

BearlySane88 said:

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The one thing that article got right is that Piker is trash and any politician aligning themselves with him would be better off distancing themselves.

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Al Sayed working with Piker has won him the nom, helping him overcome the incredible challenge of beating a $60M trashy and racist campaign.

A lot of the issues pushed by people like Piker do resonate among the very large disenfranchised segment, many of whom had voted for Trump and are now disappointed with him not delivering on the populist agenda, and siding with the billionaire class and the neocons.

If Trump pulls the trigger on Iran, the GOP is toast. That's why I think Trump is going to wait till November to start his big war on Iran that his sponsors ordered.

Cal88 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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The one thing that article got right is that Piker is trash and any politician aligning themselves with him would be better off distancing themselves.

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Al Sayed working with Piker has won him the nom, helping him overcome the incredible challenge of beating a $60M trashy and racist campaign.

A lot of the issues pushed by people like Piker do resonate among the very large disenfranchised segment, many of whom had voted for Trump and are now disappointed with him not delivering on the populist agenda, and siding with the billionaire class and the neocons.

If Trump pulls the trigger on Iran, the GOP is toast. That's why I think Trump is going to wait till November to start a big war on Iran.

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Doubt many who voted for Trump are big fans of people who say America deserved 9/11.

BearlySane88 said:

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Cal88 said:

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BearlySane88 said:

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The one thing that article got right is that Piker is trash and any politician aligning themselves with him would be better off distancing themselves.

---

Al Sayed working with Piker has won him the nom, helping him overcome the incredible challenge of beating a $60M trashy and racist campaign.

A lot of the issues pushed by people like Piker do resonate among the very large disenfranchised segment, many of whom had voted for Trump and are now disappointed with him not delivering on the populist agenda, and siding with the billionaire class and the neocons.

If Trump pulls the trigger on Iran, the GOP is toast. That's why I think Trump is going to wait till November to start a big war on Iran.

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Doubt many who voted for Trump are big fans of people who say America deserved 9/11.

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They are big fans of people like El Sayed who say that America deserves better access to healthcare, better purchasing power, better political system less driven by money, better allocation of their tax money away from foreign countries or towards endless war.

Also many who voted for Trump are no longer in his plantation:

Non-college voters, the base of the MAGA movement, are abandoning the GOP.

MAGA's net favorability is -22 pts (down 28 pts) with them. Trump's now at -19 pt net approval with them. Dems actually lead in the race for Congress with them.

This is what blue waves are built on. pic.twitter.com/s817rW4gSV

— (((Harry Enten))) (@ForecasterEnten) August 7, 2026

Fox News in a rare candid moment there:

JESSE WATTERS: You gotta respect Abdul. Say what you want about him, this guy is a force that Mike Rogers is gonna have to deal with. pic.twitter.com/4WTSxX7vpA

— Dr. Abdul El-Sayed (@AbdulElSayed) August 7, 2026