While I was a student at Cal, I drove to Nation's Burgers on University to get a slice of pie. It was probably 7PM or so.

We arrive and get in line to order. The guy in front of us is mid-40s, African-American. After he orders, he gestures to us and says to the clerk (also African-American) something like, "Geez, I guess you even let white people eat here, huh?" The cashier looked horrified at his comment and didn't really respond, even though he repeated himself a few times.

As my girlfriend ate her pie, another African-American walked past our table outside and looked at us through the window. Completely unprovoked, he gestured at us with his hand in the shape of a gun, miming shooting me and the gun recoiling.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing in Berkeley? Was Nation's a "historically-black restaurant" or something, and I just didn't realize it?

I know this is sort of an odd thread, but this experience has bothered me ever since. I just can't figure it out.

I suspect that it may have been more an issue of class than race. Sounds like just bad luck.

Just idiots being idiots and trying to find an excuse for their own failures.

Racism is a scaler, not a vector.

Of course, centuries of generally sanctioned slavery does have its rewards.

CalAlumnus13;842313561 said:

---

While I was a student at Cal, I drove to Nation's Burgers on University to get a slice of pie. It was probably 7PM or so.

We arrive and get in line to order. The guy in front of us is mid-40s, African-American. After he orders, he gestures to us and says to the clerk (also African-American) something like, "Geez, I guess you even let white people eat here, huh?" The cashier looked horrified at his comment and didn't really respond, even though he repeated himself a few times.

As my girlfriend ate her pie, another African-American walked past our table outside and looked at us through the window. Completely unprovoked, he gestured at us with his hand in the shape of a gun, miming shooting me and the gun recoiling.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing in Berkeley? Was Nation's a "historically-black restaurant" or something, and I just didn't realize it?

I know this is sort of an odd thread, but this experience has bothered me ever since. I just can't figure it out.

---

what the hell...i've bought pies there on a couple of occasions. usually 1-2 tables of white people, never saw any disturbances.

bad luck, OP...

Always saw plenty of nerdy white and asian Berkeley kids at Nations. . .

One of the founders was a Cal grad. Don't believe he was black

"African American"?

I can't wait until the PC crowd starts calling Kingsley Okoroh an "African American." LOL.

Too funny.

Unless that dude making the silly comments has the power to keep you from; a job, a livelihood, access to education, or housing...I wouldn't call it reverse racism. It could be a racist remark but that's different and suspect it's about class and not race, although race and class are very often connected.

BTW, the fact the African American worker was shocked and taken aback suggests the commenter was way off base. At least you got that to check off on the weirdness. Now if every Black person in the place turned around and stared at you and laughed at the comment, you might have a point. But that wasn't the case.

p.s. the guy looking through the window...that's just random crazy Berkeley.

"Let me tell you something else about the Negro ..." Cliven Bundy, American Hero.

CalAlumnus13;842313561 said:

---

While I was a student at Cal, I drove to Nation's Burgers on University to get a slice of pie. It was probably 7PM or so.

We arrive and get in line to order. The guy in front of us is mid-40s, African-American. After he orders, he gestures to us and says to the clerk (also African-American) something like, "Geez, I guess you even let white people eat here, huh?" The cashier looked horrified at his comment and didn't really respond, even though he repeated himself a few times.

As my girlfriend ate her pie, another African-American walked past our table outside and looked at us through the window. Completely unprovoked, he gestured at us with his hand in the shape of a gun, miming shooting me and the gun recoiling.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing in Berkeley? Was Nation's a "historically-black restaurant" or something, and I just didn't realize it?

I know this is sort of an odd thread, but this experience has bothered me ever since. I just can't figure it out.

---

Maybe the second guy is just a big Shooter McGavin fan

beelzebear;842313585 said:

---

Unless that dude making the silly comments has the power to keep you from; a job, a livelihood, access to education, or housing...I wouldn't call it reverse racism. It could be a racist remark but that's different and suspect it's about class and not race, although race and class are very often connected.

---

Yes yes, I do realize this. That's why I put the term in quotation marks... I needed a quick way to describe it in a thread title. "Racist Remarks or Behavior from African Americans, Blacks, or Other Minorities Toward Whites (or in any other unexpected direction) in Berkeley?" is a little wordy for that use.

Definitely a racist remark given the "white people" barb. You were smart enough to properly profile him as an @$$h0le with probably very little to lose and just kept your mouth closed.

Really?

Whenever something actually "racist" happens, people on this board go on these rants about how society is just too PC.

Now some white kid gets scared ordering a pie from Nations and we all feel so sorry for the poor white kid.

I know you mean well, but welcome to our world. Where I grew up, the few black kids in the area would experience something like that every day. One of my close friends (who happened to drive a somewhat nice car) would get pulled over by the cops on a weekly basis. I know he's not lying, because I got pulled over with him a minimum of three times.

OP must look like a square.

Jk, OP. But you seriously must have looked scared as hell to be targeted twice.

ducky23;842313650 said:

---

Really?

Whenever something actually "racist" happens, people on this board go on these rants about how society is just too PC.

Now some white kid gets scared ordering a pie from Nations and we all feel so sorry for the poor white kid.

I know you mean well, but welcome to our world. Where I grew up, the few black kids in the area would experience something like that every day. One of my close friends (who happened to drive a somewhat nice car) would get pulled over by the cops on a weekly basis. I know he's not lying, because I got pulled over with him a minimum of three times.

---

jeez ducky23, everyone knows that thats not what youre saying. you're basically saying im glad this happened to you OP because its happened to me. im sure most of us have encountered situations where theres racism going on. i dont wish those situations on anyone.

CalAlumnus13;842313592 said:

---

Yes yes, I do realize this. That's why I put the term in quotation marks... I needed a quick way to describe it in a thread title. "Racist Remarks or Behavior from African Americans, Blacks, or Other Minorities Toward Whites (or in any other unexpected direction) in Berkeley?" is a little wordy for that use.

---

I'd call it a rude remark with racial/racist overtones. Otherwise it's difficult to describe succinctly because there's context and you get that. Not perfect, one of those gray areas.

ducky23;842313650 said:

---

Where I grew up, the few black kids in the area would experience something like that every day.

---

This sort of thing is wrong whenever it occurs, wherever it occurs, however it occurs.

That said, I think you'd agree that racism toward blacks and other "typical" victims of this sort of activity is exceedingly rare in Berkeley, and the Bay Area generally---certainly far rarer than just about any other part of the country.

That leads to the question---was my situation, which was contrary to how one would expect such an experience to occur in most parts of the country, simply an aberration? Based on the responses so far, it seems my experience was indeed an aberration.

However, if other whites (and, probably, Asians) reported similar experiences (class-based with a racial overtone), it might say something about the heterogeneity of Berkeley's population (most notably caused by the upper middle-class students entering and leaving the city regularly).

might have been HIgh off something not good or IGNORANT did not get simple life skills from whomever was around or raising them and it happens way too much

gobears725;842313667 said:

---

jeez ducky23, everyone knows that thats not what youre saying. you're basically saying im glad this happened to you OP because its happened to me. im sure most of us have encountered situations where theres racism going on. i dont wish those situations on anyone.

---

Of course most of us have experienced racism. That's the point. Most of us minorities have in fact experienced much worse. But for some reason, none of us have been so "bothered" by these acts of racism where we feel the need to complain about it on this board.

But from my reading of the original post, when racism happens to a white person, it's so wrong and so bothersome that it needs to be a topic of discussion here.

The op goes on in subsequent posts to say that racism against black people in the Bay Area is "exceedingly rare." And then he lumps Asians in the same class as white people. (Yes, all you who took Asian American studies classes at Berkeley, your professors just threw up.)

So yes, what happened sucks. It always sucks. But the op's comments seem a little sheltered to say the least.

And excuse me if I seem overly sensitive. I do a lot of civil rights law, and I see forms of racism everyday that is so much worse than what anyone can imagine.

ducky23;842313719 said:

---

The op goes on in subsequent posts to say that racism against black people in the Bay Area is "exceedingly rare." And then he lumps Asians in the same class as white people. (Yes, all you who took Asian American studies classes at Berkeley, your professors just threw up.)

---

Ugh. Of course whites and Asians aren't the same. I was "lumping" them together because if, as seems likely, the person in question was making an assumption* about my class based on my race, it seems likely he'd make the same assumption about a college-aged Asian. It seems less likely he would have made that assumption about a college-aged black or Hispanic person.

*An incorrect assumption, I might add---I was the first in my family to attend college, and was raised by a single mother who made under $25k for much of my childhood.

ducky23;842313719 said:

---

But for some reason, none of us have been so "bothered" by these acts of racism where we feel the need to complain about it on this board.

---

I didn't complain about it. I related a novel experience, and asked if others had experienced anything similar. I was trying to understand it. The class explanation makes sense.

ducky23;842313719 said:

---

when racism happens to a white person, it's so wrong and so bothersome that it needs to be a topic of discussion here.

---

Should not have happened (or is happening) one way. Should not happen the other way. Neither one is right. But because of the excesses of the former, we oft try to excuse the latter. Not right either way. Not equal either, but not right.

With you Ducky.

I also find the use of the term African-American presumptuous (bordering on offensive)...and not "PC" as so many are apt to mis-label all words they don't like (or understand). At what point did the black man in Nations identify himself as having been born in Africa? Or what generation American is he? Are you similarly an African-American due to your genetic heritage...a white–African-American...or perhaps a white–Irish–African-American?

ducky23;842313719 said:

---

Of course most of us have experienced racism. That's the point. Most of us minorities have in fact experienced much worse. But for some reason, none of us have been so "bothered" by these acts of racism where we feel the need to complain about it on this board.

But from my reading of the original post, when racism happens to a white person, it's so wrong and so bothersome that it needs to be a topic of discussion here.

The op goes on in subsequent posts to say that racism against black people in the Bay Area is "exceedingly rare." And then he lumps Asians in the same class as white people. (Yes, all you who took Asian American studies classes at Berkeley, your professors just threw up.)

So yes, what happened sucks. It always sucks. But the op's comments seem a little sheltered to say the least.

And excuse me if I seem overly sensitive. I do a lot of civil rights law, and I see forms of racism everyday that is so much worse than what anyone can imagine.

---

Racism is racism and is disgusting no matter the skin color of the victim or the bigot. As soon as we justify or excuse it or try to put it in context, we don't put racism in its rightful place. And it's not just racism. It is any dehumanizing caricature that robs the targets of their basic human dignity because we are too lazy to allow for human complexity. Being subjected to racism doesn't give one a free pass to be racist just like being robbed doesn't give one a pass to rob others. Evil act is evil.

blungld;842313749 said:

---

With you Ducky.

I also find the use of the term African-American presumptuous (bordering on offensive)...and not "PC" as so many are apt to mis-label all words they don't like (or understand). At what point did the black man in Nations identify himself as having been born in Africa? Or what generation American is he? Are you similarly an African-American due to your genetic heritage...a whiteAfrican-American...or perhaps a whiteIrishAfrican-American?

---

Ugh again. I used the term African-American because it is supported by black (to use your term) leaders, most notably Jesse Jackson. No matter what word I chose, someone could have objected to it.

I was a regular after hours weekend patron at Nation's on San Pablo near the Richmond border. I've been there countless times with my ex and we never had any incident there. Almost all the staff and clientele were black, unlike in Berkeley were it was more of a mixed crowd.

calbear93;842313752 said:

---

Racism is racism and is disgusting no matter the skin color of the victim or the bigot. As soon as we justify or excuse it or try to put it in context, we don't put racism in its rightful place. And it's not just racism. It is any dehumanizing caricature that robs the targets of their basic human dignity because we are too lazy to allow for human complexity. Being subjected to racism doesn't give one a free pass to be racist just like being robbed doesn't give one a pass to rob others. Evil act is evil.

---

Lovely thoughts. And I wholeheartedly agree with both you and the numerous previous posts who have said more or less the same thing.

I can't wait to hear the same type of eloquence from all of you the next time someone on this board says society is being "too PC" in response to a racist act towards a minority. (Which happens a lot on this board).

I don't know how many times I've heard someone on this board say that certain acts are not actually racism and it's society and/or the minority who is just being too sensitive. And whenever I see these types of ignorant posts, I've yet to see anyone here call that person out with such ferocity as I've seen in this post.

Where are the cries that racism, no matter how insignificant, is still racism???

I have been refused service because I am white only twice in my lifetime : Once at the Jack in the Box on Telegraph Ave very late one night in 1978 and the other at a snack bar at a muni golf course in Wailuku in Maui in 1982. I just blew it off both times . It wasn't worth it to me to fight over it. It felt pretty weird though. I had long hair but it didn't help either time .

bearister;842313773 said:

---

I have been refused service because I am white only twice in my lifetime : Once at the Jack in the Box on Telegraph Ave very late one night in 1978 and the other at a snack bar at a muni golf course in Wailuku in Maui in 1982. I just blew it off both times . It wasn't worth it to me to fight over it. It felt pretty weird though. I had long hair but it didn't help either time .

---

Dirty ass hippy.

blungld;842313749 said:

---

With you Ducky.

I also find the use of the term African-American presumptuous (bordering on offensive)...and not "PC" as so many are apt to mis-label all words they don't like (or understand). At what point did the black man in Nations identify himself as having been born in Africa? Or what generation American is he? Are you similarly an African-American due to your genetic heritage...a whiteAfrican-American...or perhaps a whiteIrishAfrican-American?

---

Huh? When did "African-American" become offensive? And since when does it mean that one was "born in Africa"? I'm of Italian heritage and I don't cringe at being considered an Italian-American. And I wasn't born in Italy, but in Oakland, California.

Some of you guys are hilarious.

You suspect it was more about class than race? LOL

ducky23;842313650 said:

---

Really?

Whenever something actually "racist" happens, people on this board go on these rants about how society is just too PC.

Now some white kid gets scared ordering a pie from Nations and we all feel so sorry for the poor white kid.

I know you mean well, but welcome to our world. Where I grew up, the few black kids in the area would experience something like that every day. One of my close friends (who happened to drive a somewhat nice car) would get pulled over by the cops on a weekly basis. I know he's not lying, because I got pulled over with him a minimum of three times.

---

Harry Edwards, is that you?

Sorry Man if you think thats racism, you got no idea.

Did the restaurant deny you food?
Did they pull their eyes to the sides and wonder how you can see from your eyes?
Did you just walk down the street and have people call out "hey bruce lee!"
Are you tired of hearing small diick jokes?
Do you have people say why asian women are so much hotter than the asian men?
That some people have an asian fetish and like Asian women cuz...fill in the blank.
That you are beat up as a kid cuz you are asian?
That your speech is made fun of because you are an immigrant just learning English?
Got people trying to make fun of your language by speaking chinese back to you by saying "Ching Chong Ching Chong"
That you need to take this in order to work in the corporate world because it will jeopardize your career?
That you are called a damn chink
That you are blamed for world war 2
Hey you are asian you must be good in school and math
Im asian so I must know karate so they want to see if you really do by fighting you.
That you don't know if your application was rejected because of race?

I'm sorry you felt reverse racism that day. For you its an hour of one day, for us, it's been that way our entire life. And this doesn't even compare to what African Americans face.

Lets close this thread and move on with our lives.

ducky23;842313719 said:

---

Of course most of us have experienced racism. That's the point. Most of us minorities have in fact experienced much worse. But for some reason, none of us have been so "bothered" by these acts of racism where we feel the need to complain about it on this board.

But from my reading of the original post, when racism happens to a white person, it's so wrong and so bothersome that it needs to be a topic of discussion here.

The op goes on in subsequent posts to say that racism against black people in the Bay Area is "exceedingly rare." And then he lumps Asians in the same class as white people. (Yes, all you who took Asian American studies classes at Berkeley, your professors just threw up.)

So yes, what happened sucks. It always sucks. But the op's comments seem a little sheltered to say the least.

And excuse me if I seem overly sensitive. I do a lot of civil rights law, and I see forms of racism everyday that is so much worse than what anyone can imagine.

---

i just see it go both ways and i honestly think that every race is sensitive about racism. im not white or black btw. on the topic of sheltered, yea probably