We should have a BI pool on how long Trump remains in office

MSaviolives;842838574 said:

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We should have a BI pool on how long Trump remains in office

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Two more years. He departs office and this mortal coil while tweeting on the toilet at 3:00 am. New York Post headline reads "Trump Dies During Dump. So Sad!".

calbear93;842838573 said:

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Agreed. I just have pet-peeve about people invoking the Constitution when it doesn't apply. Our founding fathers intended the President to have this power, with the check being the Congress' ability to impeach. Heck, the President has unlimited pardon powers. This may be a political issue and this is the risk of entrusting one party with both the congress and the white house, but it is not a constitutional issue. If he exercised his pardon powers, it would be politically devastating to the Republican party in the same way if he appointed someone who shut down the investigation. Neither is a constitutional crisis.

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Not to go Cliff Claven on you 93, but not quite unlimited--no pardon for state law violations. The NY AG is apparently investigating the same crew for various NY law violations. We'll see where that goes.

calbear93;842838553 said:

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I don't think the POTUS can also serve as the FBI Director.

But seriously, laughing at people claiming that this is a constitutional crisis. Maybe bad optics, but not a constitutional issues.

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Bad optics, for sure. He couldn't look more like Nixon if he tried.

sycasey;842838580 said:

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Bad optics, for sure. He couldn't look more like Nixon if he tried.

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Too bad Bork isn't still around to have done the firing, but nobody does it better than the Donald

NYCGOBEARS;842838565 said:

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How about Kushner's sister pitching US visas to Chinese businessmen in exchange for *cough* *cough* "investment" in prime New Jersey real estate... conveniently held by the Kushner's?

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Even though Clinton did this and this has been going on for almost thirty years, Kushner's family shouldn't do this.

oski003;842838584 said:

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Even though Clinton did this and this has been going on for almost thirty years, Kushner's family shouldn't do this.

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The Clinton Foundation actually does many good things. What does Kushner's real estate empire accomplish? Trump is draining the swamp and filling it with far dirtier creatures.

NYCGOBEARS;842838587 said:

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The Clinton Foundation actually does many good things. What does Kushner's real estate empire accomplish? Trump is draining the swamp and filling it with far dirtier creatures.

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His new swamp creatures are particularly coastal, and very elite.

socaliganbear;842838564 said:

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It's going to be someone "impartial".

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Some buzz that it could be Trey Gowdy. He's "impartial".

socaliganbear;842838588 said:

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His new swamp creatures are particularly coastal, and very elite.

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Good thing I live close to Melania. Trump voters are screwed.

NYCGOBEARS;842838587 said:

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The Clinton Foundation actually does many good things. What does Kushner's real estate empire accomplish? Trump is draining the swamp and filling it with far dirtier creatures.

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I wasn't talking about the other corruption. It's tough to keep it all straight.

MSaviolives;842838574 said:

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We should have a BI pool on how long Trump remains in office

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April 16, 2029

The last time this country faced what is widely perceived to have been a constitutional crisis was when Nixon fired his Attorneys General, which he had every right to do under the Constitution. I would suggest that calbear93's definition of a constitutional crisis is different from its common usage. The President has broad powers over the investigative and prosecutorial arms of the Federal Government. It is precisely his use of those powers to protect himself that makes it a Constitutional Crisis. A situation which requires action taken by another branch of government (Congress in this instance) to counter the actions of the Executive, as designed by the Constitution, or law and order breaks down WITHOUT the Constitution having been violated - hence the term Constitutional Crisis.

You don't like the use of the term Constitutional Crisis? Fine, that doesn't really matter. What matters is that we have an impartial investigator and prosecutor for Trump / Russia. Do we have that today? What is needed to get that?

To our Bear friends on the left: if the FBI decided there was no criminal activity vis a vis Trump staff members and Russia would you have trusted and accepted the decision?

Same question to our Bear friends on the right in reverse.

I think most of us would agree the answer is "no" on both sides.

Comey effed up repeatedly and in bad ways which undermined the trust we all have in Comey and the FBI. The circumstances raise eyebrows but Comey had to go.

tequila4kapp;842838603 said:

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To our Bear friends on the left: if the FBI decided there was no criminal activity vis a vis Trump staff members and Russia would you have trusted and accepted the decision?

Same question to our Bear friends on the right in reverse.

I think most of us would agree the answer is "no" on both sides.

Comey effed up repeatedly and in bad ways which undermined the trust we all have in Comey and the FBI. The circumstances raise eyebrows but Comey had to go.

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I think I am naturally cynical of our government, so probably suspicious either way.

NYCGOBEARS;842838587 said:

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The Clinton Foundation actually does many good things. What does Kushner's real estate empire accomplish? Trump is draining the swamp and filling it with far dirtier creatures.

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The Foundation may have done some good things but it was little more than a front organization used by the Clinton's to line their pockets by selling political access. Plain and simple.

tequila4kapp;842838606 said:

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The Foundation may have done some good things but it was little more than a front organization used by the Clinton's to line their pockets by selling political access. Plain and simple.

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Once she became the Secretary of State, accepting contribution from foreign government leaders was horrible. However, the degree of corruption you see depends on which side you are on. I don't mind former presidents cashing in by giving speeches and taking on lobbying efforts. However, once she became the top diplomat, they should have turned off the access to foreign government leaders.

I guess Pardongate was a Constitutional Crisis requiring us to revisit the powers granted to the president in our Constitution.

tequila4kapp;842838603 said:

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To our Bear friends on the left: if the FBI decided there was no criminal activity vis a vis Trump staff members and Russia would you have trusted and accepted the decision?

Same question to our Bear friends on the right in reverse.

I think most of us would agree the answer is "no" on both sides.

Comey effed up repeatedly and in bad ways which undermined the trust we all have in Comey and the FBI. The circumstances raise eyebrows but Comey had to go.

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Thank you Tequila. You have made a great case for the appointment of an independent special prosecutor.
Assuming you are old enough, an independent special prosecutor was appointed in the Watergate investigation since the Dems would not have accepted an innocent verdict from the Republican Justice Department. And the Republican Justice Department was not likely to find the Republican President guilty.

calbear93;842838607 said:

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Once she became the Secretary of State, accepting contribution from foreign government leaders was horrible. However, the degree of corruption you see depends on which side you are on. I don't mind former presidents cashing in by giving speeches and taking on lobbying efforts. However, once she became the top diplomat, they should have turned off the access to foreign government leaders.

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The Clinton's were without a doubt leveraging their positions but Trump and Kushner's corruption is far more blatant

NYCGOBEARS;842838612 said:

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The Clinton's were without a doubt leveraging their positions but Trump and Kushner's corruption is far more insidious.

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I don't know about Donald Trump himself (I suspect he himself has lost some brand leverage and money), but what Kushner's family did in invoking Jared's name was pathetic. I honestly think Trump didn't think this job would be this hard, but I doubt he is doing this to enrich himself when he was already rich and his brand name would only be harmed by half (probably a majority) of the country never wanting to do anything more with the name Trump.

calbear93;842838614 said:

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I don't know about Donald Trump himself (I suspect he himself has lost some brand leverage and money), but what Kushner's family did in invoking Jared's name was pathetic. I honestly think Trump didn't think this job would be this hard, but I doubt he is doing this to enrich himself when he was already rich and his brand name would only be harmed by half (probably a majority) of the country never wanting to do anything more with the name Trump.

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When you're already rich, what more is there to obtain? Power. That's Trump's motivation. Those around him just see the ultimate networking and enrichment opportunity.

68great;842838610 said:

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Thank you Tequila. You have made a great case for the appointment of an independent special prosecutor.
Assuming you are old enough, an independent special prosecutor was appointed in the Watergate investigation since the Dems would not have accepted an innocent verdict from the Republican Justice Department. And the Republican Justice Department was not likely to find the Republican President guilty.

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Exactly. I argued for an independent prosecutor all along. I was told trust the Department of Justice. Then the Acting Attorney General was fired. I was told trust the FBI Director, who I had misgivings about. Then the FBI Director was fired. No way can I trust a Trump appointed person to investigate Trump. We need an independent investigator and prosecutor or the country will remain in crisis.

NYCGOBEARS;842838612 said:

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The Clinton's were without a doubt leveraging their positions but Trump and Kushner's corruption is far more blatant

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Difference: The Clintons say catch me. The Trumps say watch me.

Interesting thread / takes

Cool beans👍

Gotta give Trump a little credit. He's fired a bunch of lawyers in a short time.

68great;842838610 said:

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Thank you Tequila. You have made a great case for the appointment of an independent special prosecutor.
Assuming you are old enough, an independent special prosecutor was appointed in the Watergate investigation since the Dems would not have accepted an innocent verdict from the Republican Justice Department. And the Republican Justice Department was not likely to find the Republican President guilty.

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I was about 8 so a little before my time but I'm a History major so I am aware.

dajo9;842838616 said:

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Exactly. I argued for an independent prosecutor all along. I was told trust the Department of Justice. Then the Acting Attorney General was fired. I was told trust the FBI Director, who I had misgivings about. Then the FBI Director was fired. No way can I trust a Trump appointed person to investigate Trump. We need an independent investigator and prosecutor or the country will remain in crisis.

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I was in favor of a special prosecutor when Lynch met with Clinton on the tarmac and Comey - still reporting up to Lynch - was put in the awkward position of making the prosecutorial decision instead of acting as law enforcement only. I felt more strongly about it after the very strange "extremely reckless" isn't "negligent" decision.

A special prosecutor is probably the only way out of this now.

Bigger picture, I firmly believe the current state is a direct result of the unprecedented politicization of the DoJ under Obama. Maybe using a Special Prosecutor here and final resolution of the whole enchilada - Clinton emails, Russia, etc. - whatever that may be, can get us to an overall better place with a DoJ that goes back to its traditional role.

68great;842838610 said:

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Thank you Tequila. You have made a great case for the appointment of an independent special prosecutor.
Assuming you are old enough, an independent special prosecutor was appointed in the Watergate investigation since the Dems would not have accepted an innocent verdict from the Republican Justice Department. And the Republican Justice Department was not likely to find the Republican President guilty.

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Wow. I think we finally found something on which we can all agree. Let's appoint an independent special prosecutor and bring credibility to whatever action is taken.

I am sure that those on the other side of the issue can easily provide me examples of the Repubs. doing the same when able to do so, but I would love an independent prosecutor and let the chips fall. I was totally disenfranchised when Obama politicized the DOJ (Holder and Lynch were protectors of the POTUS) so let us not repeat it with the current situation. It goes both ways.

We're definitely in topsy turvy world- Trump fires Comey because he mishandled the email investigation ( which helped elect him) and now the Dems, who wanted him out for same, want him back. I'm enjoying this.

Per the NY Times, Comey was addressing employees in Westwood at FBI's LA HQs when the TV screens started flashing that he had been fired. He thought it was a prank.

You are naive if you really think the reason of Comey firing is about HRC's email investigation.

Is Comey gonna be the new Archibald Cox?

BearChemist;842838638 said:

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You are naive if you really think the reason of Comey firing is about HRC's email investigation.

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The truth is we don't know.

Trump's inclusion of the "you exonerated my 3 times" language is highly suspicious. But it could just as easily be another instance of Trump's hyper sensitivity / defensiveness as it could be a clue the investigation uncovered criminal activity by others.

The other thing to consider is the recent Congressional approval for the DoJ's #2 (?) person. I think that's the person Comey directly reports to. That person wrote the detailed letter explaining Comey's termination. The filling of that position could easily be at play here too.

NYCGOBEARS;842838639 said:

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Is Comey gonna be the new Archibald Cox?

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He needs a bow tie and crew cut , plus Cox was competent