White House has settled in

okaydo
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Another Bear
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Trump = a thousand pieces of shtt
Another Bear
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okaydo said:




I suppose that's an upgrade from a Golden Shower.
B.A. Bearacus
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Your president.

okaydo
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Yeah, Libs. Why don't you support our president?!?!?


Another Bear
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okaydo said:

Yeah, Libs. Why don't you support our president?!?!?



I'll wait until AFTER the Russkie investigation is complete because they're NOT American but they helped American traitors, I.e., Trump. Otherwise, Ben Shapiro is a step away from being another Jewish Nazi like Stephen Miller.
bearister
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Nm
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mikecohen
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bearister said:

Nm
Sorry: What is Nm?
bearister
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mikecohen said:

bearister said:

Nm
Sorry: What is Nm?


It is part of the Illuminati code. It stands for No Message. To my knowledge there is no way to delete a post on this site like on the old one. I posted a comment on the wrong thread so NM was my only way of removing it.
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B.A. Bearacus
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Which one of you is John Brennan?

Anarchistbear
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Brennan is a creep

https://theintercept.com/2014/07/31/lying/
Another Bear
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No doubt...and yet he can still be correct about Trump.

Everything Trump is doing is being pulled from the Nazi playbook. Trump is pulling away from allies and looks to destroy NATO. Trump is destabilizing the U.S. and world economies with a trade war the U.S.can't win given trade deficits and the U.S. economy is largely consumer driven.

The question is WHY.

The only thing I can figure is Nazi nihilism, high-risk moves without strategy ending in disaster.

Conservatives and Trump supporters how do you answer the question of WHY towards Trump's policies. Are his policies helping his base?



dajo9
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Another Bear said:

No doubt...and yet he can still be correct about Trump.

Everything Trump is doing is being pulled from the Nazi playbook. Trump is pulling away from allies and looks to destroy NATO. Trump is destabilizing the U.S. and world economies with a trade war the U.S.can't win given trade deficits and the U.S. economy is largely consumer driven.

The question is WHY.

The only thing I can figure is Nazi nihilism, high-risk moves without strategy ending in disaster.

Conservatives and Trump supporters how do you answer the question of WHY towards Trump's policies. Are his policies helping his base?



Why? Oligarchy power, with him as the chief oligarch. What Putin did in Russia is his vision for America.
mikecohen
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Another Bear said:

No doubt...and yet he can still be correct about Trump.

Everything Trump is doing is being pulled from the Nazi playbook. Trump is pulling away from allies and looks to destroy NATO. Trump is destabilizing the U.S. and world economies with a trade war the U.S.can't win given trade deficits and the U.S. economy is largely consumer driven.

The question is WHY.

The only thing I can figure is Nazi nihilism, high-risk moves without strategy ending in disaster.

Conservatives and Trump supporters how do you answer the question of WHY towards Trump's policies. Are his policies helping his base?




Using Occam's Razor, isn't the simplest answer that all these moves by Trump favor Putin (and therefore at least appear to be done at Putin's behest)?
Another Bear
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Quote:

Why? Oligarchy power, with him as the chief oligarch. What Putin did in Russia is his vision for America
mikecohen said:


Using Occam's Razor, isn't the simplest answer that all these moves by Trump favor Putin (and therefore at least appear to be done at Putin's behest)?

I agree and it seems obvious to me. I simply don't get why some conservatives don't see this. Ignorance is bliss? Meanwhile, they're not just looking the other way, they're aiding Trump in his destruction.

I have to give a few conservatives like George Will for doing the history calculus. I guess the rest of the conservative moment bought into Idiocracy. It's truly mind boggling the willful ignorance.
oski003
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Trump's tariffs are aimed at China, who steals American technology with and without the help of American Corporations. That is the why. We develop. They steal. They pollute and build with cheap labor. We buy. He's trying to get us out of this rabbit hole though I feel his methods are drastic.
golden sloth
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oski003 said:

Trump's tariffs are aimed at China, who steals American technology with and without the help of American Corporations. That is the why. We develop. They steal. They pollute and build with cheap labor. We buy. He's trying to get us out of this rabbit hole though I feel his methods are drastic.
I'm not necessarily against the tariffs on China.

The tariffs on Canada and the European Union are completely asinine to me. It is good to have friends, and free trade with countries strengthens our mutual interest and generates shared values. We should not burn these relationships down. They are helpful, both for security and commerce. Retracting into a state of self-imposed isolationism is just going to create a power vacuum that someone with harmful intent towards America will fill, which is obviously bad. I regret the withdrawal from the Paris Accords, the Iran Deal, the UNHCR, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and the reworking of NAFTA.
Another Bear
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I agree tariffs are fair with China but the problem is the cat is out of the bad because a bargain was made.

The "bargain" the US made with China is basically this: we will look the other way on human rights and will give you into your trade demands...because we're getting cheap good which we will mark up hugely. And we want access to a market place with a billion consumers."

This is how you get a $600 iPhone instead of $2,000, which is the estimate if it were made in the U.S. American corporations profited greatly from the bargain but no one paid attention to the macro economics and political.

While I think some tariffs to China is fair, you have to be smart about it and NOT START A TRADE WAR. That's just plain stupid. However if the goal is a REAL WAR, like Bannon wants, well there you go.

One big difference I see it party-driven capitalism vs. so-called American corporate free trade capitalism. Corporations drive how the market works in the U.S., while in China it's the government.
bearister
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http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html
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okaydo
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B.A. Bearacus
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golden sloth
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Sometimes I just don't get it. From a governmental stand point these people deserve and need to be in jail. I am more afraid of these types of people than anyone else (with exception to those that text and drive).

Quote:

U.S. President Donald Trump on Tuesday pardoned Oregon cattle ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, after both were convicted on arson charges, sparking the 2016 occupation of a wildlife refuge, according to a White House statement.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oregon-standoff-trump/trump-pardons-oregon-ranchers-whose-case-led-to-refuge-occupation-idUSKBN1K021Q

Though my cynical side tells me Trump is trying to appease his future armed defenders if Democrats pull of a miracle and win the house and senate and the Mueller investigation publishes hardcore evidence of Trump agreeing to be a Russian puppet (and yes, I know this no the 'likely' scenario), and Trump initiates a civil a war instead of relinquishing power.
blungld
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NYCGOBEARS said:

A legitimately wealthy billionaire hedge fund guy I know here says that Trump is a guy living off a credit card with a very large limit and there's no way he can ever pay it off. He scoffs at the notion that he is either a businessman or wealthy.
My NYC fold say similar and more disparaging things. Worst person they've ever met.
okaydo
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blungld said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

A legitimately wealthy billionaire hedge fund guy I know here says that Trump is a guy living off a credit card with a very large limit and there's no way he can ever pay it off. He scoffs at the notion that he is either a businessman or wealthy.
My NYC fold say similar and more disparaging things. Worst person they've ever met.

His presidency mirrors his businessman status. He's too big to fail, has no real friends, and has a lot of people along for the ride because they can get stuff off of him.

bearister
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okaydo said:

blungld said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

A legitimately wealthy billionaire hedge fund guy I know here says that Trump is a guy living off a credit card with a very large limit and there's no way he can ever pay it off. He scoffs at the notion that he is either a businessman or wealthy.
My NYC fold say similar and more disparaging things. Worst person they've ever met.

His presidency mirrors his businessman status. He's too big to fail, has no real friends, and has a lot of people along for the ride because they can get stuff off of him.




Too big to fail? But for the Russians he was tits up:

"....But the other leverage Russia enjoyed over Trump for at least 15 years is indisputable in fact, his family has admitted to it multiple times. After a series of financial reversals and his brazen abuse of bankruptcy laws, Trump found it impossible to borrow from American banks and grew heavily reliant on unconventional sources of capital. Russian cash proved his salvation. From 2003 to 2017, people from the former USSR made 86 all-cash purchases a red flag of potential money laundering of Trump properties, totaling $109 million. In 2010, the private-wealth division of Deutsche Bank also loaned him hundreds of millions of dollars during the same period it was laundering billions in Russian money. "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," said Donald Jr.* in 2008. "We don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia," boasted Eric Trump* in 2014." Jonathan Chait, NY Magazine

* Isn't it great when you have sub moronic spawn that feel they have a free pass to talk to the press and make admissions against interest that could ultimately lead to a criminal indictment.
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Another Bear
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Quote:


His presidency mirrors his businessman status. He's too big to fail, has no real friends, and has a lot of people along for the ride because they can get stuff off of him.
Actually there's some truth to this. While real estate development might have huge transactions, the operations are often very small, family centered and autocratic and thus dysfunctional elements slip through without much problem. An ex worked for a Silicon Valley developer and the total operating staff was about 30 despite huge holdings, with basically one guy calling the shots. Lots of pararells to Trump and family but obviously different. Construction was farmed out as was a lot of the hands-on property management. I don't think it's a stretch to say if you came from this world and environment, government and diplomacy might be unwieldy and foreign. Also the loyalty thing seemed very important but it was rewarded from what I saw, unlike Trump.
bearister
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https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/07/11/obama-president-clinton-reagan-trump-713627?__twitter_impression=true
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Unit2Sucks
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The pew study sounds like garbage. How do you account for recency bias? Or the fact that the number of presidents during a person's lifetime depends on how old they are.

Take millennials for example. Pew includes kids born in 1986 - so although Reagan was technically in their lifetime, that's not really meaningful - and 13% have Reagn as a top two.

Here is the real takeaway from the study. Americans seem to be in agreement that the Bush's were bad at Presidenting. And that the only president that Republicans are proud of is Ronald Reagan. Everything else seems to be noise.

sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

The pew study sounds like garbage. How do you account for recency bias? Or the fact that the number of presidents during a person's lifetime depends on how old they are.

Take millennials for example. Pew includes kids born in 1986 - so although Reagan was technically in their lifetime, that's not really meaningful - and 13% have Reagn as a top two.

Here is the real takeaway from the study. Americans seem to be in agreement that the Bush's were bad at Presidenting. And that the only president that Republicans are proud of is Ronald Reagan. Everything else seems to be noise.




It's not "garbage" if all it's doing is reflecting the public's current opinion of recent Presidents. I don't think Pew is saying these are necessarily the "correct" opinions. It's not a survey of historians (though IIRC those also have these presidents ranked about the same).
Unit2Sucks
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I think it's garbage because the "denominator" (if you will) differs depending on the age of the survey respondent. Obama gets better marks than Kennedy, for example, yet people who were actually alive during Kennedy's presidency rate him higher.

The politico article, by the way, would lead one to believe that 44% of people surveyed consider Obama to be the best or second best of recent presidents but the question is based on the responden's lifetime. Pew doesn't disclose the age mix so depending on how representative the various groups are of the population at large, this could wildly unrepresentative. They called up households and asked for the youngest person in the house. Unless I missed it, they aren't correcting to reflect the age mix in this country so if for whatever reason they got a hold of a lot of millennials, Obama will seem more popular - in large part because he had less competition amongst younger people who've been alive for fewer presidents.

It's a weird way to ask a question and the result is basically meaningless because the respondents are essentially answering different questions.
Another Bear
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My take is the Pew poll generally reflects society's view on the presidents. Obama was the most recent competent POTUS so he benefits from that. Besides the GOP and racist hating him, he righted the economy and was a steady Eddie, no massive fcck ups...but he let some bankers slide.

Contrast that to Dubya almost sinking the country. He benefits greatly from Trump being a massive turd, who has the lowest general approval ratings in recent history.

The Clinton years were prosperous but he and Hillary were smeared to hell.

Reagan,who the hell remembers...just glad it's over, and I'd say the so-called Reagan revolution laid a massive turd. Hell even "Reagan Country" is on life support. Prop 187 killed the GOP in California.
Anarchistbear
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They all sucked
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

I think it's garbage because the "denominator" (if you will) differs depending on the age of the survey respondent. Obama gets better marks than Kennedy, for example, yet people who were actually alive during Kennedy's presidency rate him higher.

The politico article, by the way, would lead one to believe that 44% of people surveyed consider Obama to be the best or second best of recent presidents but the question is based on the responden's lifetime. Pew doesn't disclose the age mix so depending on how representative the various groups are of the population at large, this could wildly unrepresentative. They called up households and asked for the youngest person in the house. Unless I missed it, they aren't correcting to reflect the age mix in this country so if for whatever reason they got a hold of a lot of millennials, Obama will seem more popular - in large part because he had less competition amongst younger people who've been alive for fewer presidents.

It's a weird way to ask a question and the result is basically meaningless because the respondents are essentially answering different questions.


I haven't looked deeply into it, but I would bet that Pew did correct for the age ranges. They are a reputable polling outfit, so I'm sure they'd want to weight the survey properly. Obama probably has such a huge lead among Millennials (now the largest American generation currently alive) that he comes out on top in the overall survey.
B.A. Bearacus
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Your president:

"You know, a poll just came out that I am the most popular person in the history of the Republican Party 92 per cent. Beating Lincoln. I beat our Honest Abe."

There were no polls (as we know them) in Lincoln''s time you delusional, lying sack of shiit.

There were no polls (as we know them) in Lincoln''s time you delusional, lying sack of shiit.

Though... the way this president is in cahoots with the Fox propaganda machine that's dumbing Americans down and lifting up the spirits of casual white nationalists and those who want to return to a simpler time when you could just call a gay person a *** and a black person a you know, maybe this guy truly is more popular that any Republican president has ever been at any point in time.
Another Bear
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As big bad Bill once said, "It's the economy stupid." And here it is, the mainstream, moderate GOP media coming out to say it in another way. For god sake, this is Forbes. Fccking up the economy is the third rail of American politics. Trump seems intent on making Hoover look like a genius.

Time To Call Trump By His Real Name -- Economic Traitor

Quote:

It's high time we called Trump by his real name -- traitor, perhaps our country's worst traitor ever. I speak not of his attack on our allies, his appeasement of our adversaries, his assault on the press, his coddling of racists, his repulsive misogyny, his rampant corruption, his terrible cronyism, his brazen nepotism, his abuse of children, his obstruction of justice, his contempt for our justice system, or his war on the environment. I speak of his systematic destruction of our economy.

Trump is hell bent on engineering a complete meltdown of U.S. trade. This will do enormous and lasting damage to our economy, not to mention our international relations. According to the Business Round Table, more than one in five U.S. jobs are directly supported by international trade. U.S. exports and imports now total 30 percent of U.S. GDP -- roughly $6 trillion.


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