This man is a liar, peddled of falsehoods:
A slander of his own creation.
A slander of his own creation.
Wow. They just "became" one. That is so scary and disturbing. One day they liked Israel and then they became anti-Jewish. Poof. Cuz Trump said they did. That's horrifying.concordtom said:
This man is a liar, peddled of falsehoods.
I'm not sure about either of these. Omar is definitely anti-Israel, but I'm not sure that definitely means anti-semitic (and really, I think the conflation of those two things is a big part of the problem). She could be, but the evidence is light at the moment, IMO.Unit2Sucks said:
I think Trump is anti-semitic and Omar is anti-semitic.
I was imprecise in my comments and you are correct in your description of Trump and Omar as anti-semitic and as a result these elements are in both parties. Perhaps the only difference is one person is POTUS and represents this country to the world and one is a freshman member of Congress and represents her district. This doesn't excuse her comments at all. Racism of any kind should be stamped out and buried in a grave. This includes comments made by certain Republicans regarding George Soros, Democratic Congressmen who deal in stereotypes, and a President that has made racist comments about Blacks, Africans, Mexicans, Central Americans, Puerto Ricans, and Jews.Unit2Sucks said:
I think Trump is anti-semitic and Omar is anti-semitic. There is no reason both can't be true. For whatever reason, anti-semitism has a lot of staying power. The fact that there are so few Jewish people left hasn't managed to eradicate the prejudice.
For what it's worth I don't think that either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party are anti-semitic but they both harbor those types.
I think maybe anti-semites have cover because the perception is thst Jewish people are doing well for themselves.
Just as an example, I was watching the flat earth documentary Behind The Curve the other night and *spoiler alert* it's not uncommon for these troglodytes to pin the vast "round earth conspiracy" on Jewish conspirators. Like seriously, even the worlds dumbest and most comical conspiracy manages to rely on anti-semitism.
Omar is right.sycasey said:I'm not sure about either of these. Omar is definitely anti-Israel, but I'm not sure that definitely means anti-semitic (and really, I think the conflation of those two things is a big part of the problem). She could be, but the evidence is light at the moment, IMO.Unit2Sucks said:
I think Trump is anti-semitic and Omar is anti-semitic.
Trump, I'm not sure he gives a damn about Jews one way or the other. He's comfortable associating with anti-semitic types when it suits his purposes, but that's more about Trump's toxic self-interest. I'm not sure I detect any specific dislike of Jews. (By contrast, I think he does display more directly and consistently negative views of blacks and Hispanics.)
By the way, was that not the most bizarre chant of all time?BearNIt said:
No rational person believes that Democrats are antisemitic given the Trump's comment concerning Charlottesville after the Nazis marched with torches in their hands despicably chanting that "Jews will not replace us." Wasn't Trump that said, "there were good people on both sides". THERE ARE NO GOOD NAZIS, JUST LIKE THERE ARE NO GOOD KKK MEMBERS!
sycasey said:I'm not sure about either of these. Omar is definitely anti-Israel, but I'm not sure that definitely means anti-semitic (and really, I think the conflation of those two things is a big part of the problem). She could be, but the evidence is light at the moment, IMO.Unit2Sucks said:
I think Trump is anti-semitic and Omar is anti-semitic.
Trump, I'm not sure he gives a damn about Jews one way or the other. He's comfortable associating with anti-semitic types when it suits his purposes, but that's more about Trump's toxic self-interest. I'm not sure I detect any specific dislike of Jews. (By contrast, I think he does display more directly and consistently negative views of blacks and Hispanics.)
Because as far as I can tell, just about everything Omar said that has been slammed as "anti-semitic" is also directly about Israel and/or its political lobby in the U.S. In her case, I don't think I've seen anything that can clearly separate one thing from the other, and so I'm not sure there is any actual hatred of Jewish people behind her clear dislike of Israel the country. There could be, of course that's possible. I'm just not certain. If you've seen stuff that is more categorically anti-Jewish from Ilhan Omar, I'd be happy to look at it.Unit2Sucks said:
As for Omar, I don't know enough about her but she's smart and yet has said anti-semitic things on multiple occasions. Why would you say she's just anti-Israel? I understand those are two separate things but that doesn't mean she can't be both. Plenty of people are. Would you defend Trump and say he's not anti-Muslim, he's just anti-Iran?
Quote:
The wrist-slap might not have come at all, had this been Omar's first offense. But the Minnesota representative has faced backlash before for remarks pertaining to Israel. In a 2012 tweet, she wrote that Israel has "hypnotized the world" and prayed that "Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel." When the tweet resurfaced in 2018, Omar, a Somali refugee, defended her statement by arguing that the two were not equivalent: "Drawing attention to the apartheid Israeli regime is far from hating Jews." After she assumed office and the scrutiny intensified, she claimed ignorance ("I don't know how my comments would be offensive to Jewish Americans," she told CNN's Poppy Harlow in January), and later said she was still learning. "I was like, 'Do not call me that, that's not what I was doing.' And I was like, 'Oh, I see what you're saying now,'" she told The Daily Show's Trevor Noah earlier this month. "So I had to take a deep breath and understand where people were coming from and what point they were trying to make, which is what I expect people to do when I'm talking to them about things that impact me or offend me."
sycasey said:Because as far as I can tell, just about everything Omar said that has been slammed as "anti-semitic" is also directly about Israel and/or its political lobby in the U.S. In her case, I don't think I've seen anything that can clearly separate one thing from the other, and so I'm not sure there is any actual hatred of Jewish people behind her clear dislike of Israel the country. There could be, of course that's possible. I'm just not certain. If you've seen stuff that is more categorically anti-Jewish from Ilhan Omar, I'd be happy to look at it.Unit2Sucks said:
As for Omar, I don't know enough about her but she's smart and yet has said anti-semitic things on multiple occasions. Why would you say she's just anti-Israel? I understand those are two separate things but that doesn't mean she can't be both. Plenty of people are. Would you defend Trump and say he's not anti-Muslim, he's just anti-Iran?
As for Trump, well, he didn't only call for a ban on people from Iran, he literally called for a ban on Muslims. Those were his words, from early in the campaign. Then as President, one of the first things he implemented was a travel ban on a bunch of countries, all of which were majority-Muslim. I'd say the track record is much clearer in his case.
Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/ampQuote:
The wrist-slap might not have come at all, had this been Omar's first offense. But the Minnesota representative has faced backlash before for remarks pertaining to Israel. In a 2012 tweet, she wrote that Israel has "hypnotized the world" and prayed that "Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel." When the tweet resurfaced in 2018, Omar, a Somali refugee, defended her statement by arguing that the two were not equivalent: "Drawing attention to the apartheid Israeli regime is far from hating Jews." After she assumed office and the scrutiny intensified, she claimed ignorance ("I don't know how my comments would be offensive to Jewish Americans," she told CNN's Poppy Harlow in January), and later said she was still learning. "I was like, 'Do not call me that, that's not what I was doing.' And I was like, 'Oh, I see what you're saying now,'" she told The Daily Show's Trevor Noah earlier this month. "So I had to take a deep breath and understand where people were coming from and what point they were trying to make, which is what I expect people to do when I'm talking to them about things that impact me or offend me."sycasey said:Because as far as I can tell, just about everything Omar said that has been slammed as "anti-semitic" is also directly about Israel and/or its political lobby in the U.S. In her case, I don't think I've seen anything that can clearly separate one thing from the other, and so I'm not sure there is any actual hatred of Jewish people behind her clear dislike of Israel the country. There could be, of course that's possible. I'm just not certain. If you've seen stuff that is more categorically anti-Jewish from Ilhan Omar, I'd be happy to look at it.Unit2Sucks said:
As for Omar, I don't know enough about her but she's smart and yet has said anti-semitic things on multiple occasions. Why would you say she's just anti-Israel? I understand those are two separate things but that doesn't mean she can't be both. Plenty of people are. Would you defend Trump and say he's not anti-Muslim, he's just anti-Iran?
As for Trump, well, he didn't only call for a ban on people from Iran, he literally called for a ban on Muslims. Those were his words, from early in the campaign. Then as President, one of the first things he implemented was a travel ban on a bunch of countries, all of which were majority-Muslim. I'd say the track record is much clearer in his case.
Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/ampQuote:
The wrist-slap might not have come at all, had this been Omar's first offense. But the Minnesota representative has faced backlash before for remarks pertaining to Israel. In a 2012 tweet, she wrote that Israel has "hypnotized the world" and prayed that "Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel." When the tweet resurfaced in 2018, Omar, a Somali refugee, defended her statement by arguing that the two were not equivalent: "Drawing attention to the apartheid Israeli regime is far from hating Jews." After she assumed office and the scrutiny intensified, she claimed ignorance ("I don't know how my comments would be offensive to Jewish Americans," she told CNN's Poppy Harlow in January), and later said she was still learning. "I was like, 'Do not call me that, that's not what I was doing.' And I was like, 'Oh, I see what you're saying now,'" she told The Daily Show's Trevor Noah earlier this month. "So I had to take a deep breath and understand where people were coming from and what point they were trying to make, which is what I expect people to do when I'm talking to them about things that impact me or offend me."sycasey said:Because as far as I can tell, just about everything Omar said that has been slammed as "anti-semitic" is also directly about Israel and/or its political lobby in the U.S. In her case, I don't think I've seen anything that can clearly separate one thing from the other, and so I'm not sure there is any actual hatred of Jewish people behind her clear dislike of Israel the country. There could be, of course that's possible. I'm just not certain. If you've seen stuff that is more categorically anti-Jewish from Ilhan Omar, I'd be happy to look at it.Unit2Sucks said:
As for Omar, I don't know enough about her but she's smart and yet has said anti-semitic things on multiple occasions. Why would you say she's just anti-Israel? I understand those are two separate things but that doesn't mean she can't be both. Plenty of people are. Would you defend Trump and say he's not anti-Muslim, he's just anti-Iran?
As for Trump, well, he didn't only call for a ban on people from Iran, he literally called for a ban on Muslims. Those were his words, from early in the campaign. Then as President, one of the first things he implemented was a travel ban on a bunch of countries, all of which were majority-Muslim. I'd say the track record is much clearer in his case.
Unit2Sucks said:
And dajo- I don't know what to say if you believe Israel is the barrier to a two state solution. I don't often agree with dershowitz (or the Washington examiner lol) but think he's right about this: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/alan-dershowitz-time-to-tell-the-truth-about-the-palestinian-issue
I think it's safe to say that a thorough discussion of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is beyond the scope of this thread so I will fight the urge to respond.dajo9 said:Unit2Sucks said:
And dajo- I don't know what to say if you believe Israel is the barrier to a two state solution. I don't often agree with dershowitz (or the Washington examiner lol) but think he's right about this: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/alan-dershowitz-time-to-tell-the-truth-about-the-palestinian-issue
I didn't say Israel was the barrier. I said they have given up on a 2 state solution. Back when they were trying I wouldn't have called them an apartheid state, but now that Netanyahu has stopped trying they have become an apartheid state.
Not to be pedantic, but . . . yes you did:Unit2Sucks said:
I never said Omar was definitively anti-semitic, I'm fact I specifically said I wasn't accusing her of such.
Unit2Sucks said:
I think Trump is anti-semitic and Omar is anti-semitic.
In the 1940's did we hate Germany, Germans, and/or Nazis?Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/amp
I know how we treated the Japanese, which was pretty terribly, so there is value in calling out racism and/or bigotry within our own borders when it comes along with a conflict with a foreign nation. By comparison whatever anti-semitism exists today seems pretty inconsequential . . . for now.Yogi Bear said:In the 1940's did we hate Germany, Germans, and/or Nazis?Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/amp
I've never really thought about this before, but I wonder why no one ever questioned why we put Japanese in internment camps, but not German-Americans?sycasey said:I know how we treated the Japanese, which was pretty terriblyYogi Bear said:In the 1940's did we hate Germany, Germans, and/or Nazis?Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/amp
Maybe inconsequential to you. By comparison to slavery, whatever racism exists today seems pretty inconsequential but there's a reason no one makes insensitive comments like that.sycasey said:
I know how we treated the Japanese, which was pretty terribly, so there is value in calling out racism and/or bigotry within our own borders when it comes along with a conflict with a foreign nation. By comparison whatever anti-semitism exists today seems pretty inconsequential . . . for now.
https://www.publicsource.org/the-tree-of-life-shooting-devastated-all-of-pittsburgh-i-cant-help-but-ask-why-arent-black-lives-mourned-this-way/Unit2Sucks said:Maybe inconsequential to you. By comparison to slavery, whatever racism exists today seems pretty inconsequential but there's a reason no one makes insensitive comments like that.sycasey said:
I know how we treated the Japanese, which was pretty terribly, so there is value in calling out racism and/or bigotry within our own borders when it comes along with a conflict with a foreign nation. By comparison whatever anti-semitism exists today seems pretty inconsequential . . . for now.
How do you think the victims of the Tree of Life attack feel? Is there any other bigotry that you feel is inconsequential to its victims? Why would you feel the need to make that comparison in the first place?
Yogi Bear said:
https://www.publicsource.org/the-tree-of-life-shooting-devastated-all-of-pittsburgh-i-cant-help-but-ask-why-arent-black-lives-mourned-this-way/
Yogi Bear said:
"I've never really thought about this before, but I wonder why no one ever questioned why we put Japanese in internment camps, but not German-Americans?
Part of it has to do with the time that Germans had been in America. By WWII they'd largely assimilated, having come many decades earlier. German immigrants were treated with much more suspicion during WWI, when they hadn't been here for quite so long. Part of it has to do with racism, too, since German immigrants in WWI weren't put in internment camps the way Japanese immigrants were in WWII.Yogi Bear said:I've never really thought about this before, but I wonder why no one ever questioned why we put Japanese in internment camps, but not German-Americans?sycasey said:I know how we treated the Japanese, which was pretty terriblyYogi Bear said:In the 1940's did we hate Germany, Germans, and/or Nazis?Unit2Sucks said:
This isn't her first rodeo. Again, I'm not accusing her of being a vile anti-semite but I think people are going out of their way to defend her when there is no reasonable basis to do so. All we know is she's made questionable comments in the past and present.
Here's an article from last month: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/ilhan-omar-anti-semitic-remarks-aipac/amp
Anarchistbear said:
If Omar's truthful remarks about Israel are used to paint her as anti Semite than by the same measure Trump's treatment of Israel makes him a Pro- Semite, more so than any US President in history as witness this billboard for Bibi's re-election campaign