Will the NRA's grip on the GOP diminish in your lifetime? (Y/N)

going4roses
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sycasey said:

going4roses said:

sycasey said:

This is basically where I am at the moment:

Okay, Now I Actually Do Want To Take Your Guns



In many ways it's too late imo. We will not/can not put the genie back in the bottle without major blood shed/ civil war

And there are a few more parts of the discussion that the masses are not ready/prepared for


We already have major bloodshed.


Yes but I'm thinking more along the lines of a large scale armed civil unrest 100's -1000's losses of life in the time span of 5-7 days
sycasey
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going4roses said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

sycasey said:

This is basically where I am at the moment:

Okay, Now I Actually Do Want To Take Your Guns



In many ways it's too late imo. We will not/can not put the genie back in the bottle without major blood shed/ civil war

And there are a few more parts of the discussion that the masses are not ready/prepared for


We already have major bloodshed.


Yes but I'm thinking more along the lines of a large scale armed civil unrest 100's -1000's losses of life in the time span of 5-7 days
To me this is still not a great argument for not doing it. You can't let yourself be bullied out of your principles.
going4roses
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Don't mistake my guess estimation on amount of what it may take as lack of willingness or preparedness to make change I just don't see gun owners in mass giving up their arms...

I'm ready . I was born ready.
bearister
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going4roses said:

Don't mistake my guess estimation on amount of what it may take as lack of willingness or preparedness to make change I just don't see gun owners in mass giving up their arms...

I'm ready . I was born ready.


As Beatrix Kiddo would say if she was a gun control advocate: "After we take your guns away, if you're still feeling raw about it, I'll be waiting."
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Anarchistbear
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It used to be the left had the guns- weathermen, Panthers, Malcolm, Patty Hearst- **** even MLK packed. That's been lost by acquiescence and passivity. The left fortunately is re-establishing gun rights among well armed militia.
concordtom
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I don't think that's the solution we need, certainly not what I'm looking for.
Another Bear
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Tennessee lawmaker says pornography is a 'root cause' of school shootings

She provides no causation or connections but there you go. She's also running for governor of Tennessee.
going4roses
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Another Bear said:

Tennessee lawmaker says pornography is a 'root cause' of school shootings

She provides no causation or connections but there you go. She's also running for governor of Tennessee.


Wild E Coyote Super Genius
going4roses
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blungld
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I wish he wasn't getting more publicity...and I wish that when a person reached this point that there was more taboos in society for them to know that what they are thinking is evil and to stop themselves.

But all they have to do is turn on the TV and see the normalization of guns and violence on every channel. Or look outside the window and see that the "good" church-going people of their community wrap themselves in the flag and strap a rifle to their back.

Video games and movies do not cause violence, but they are part of a huge cultural message that violence is exciting and viable so that when a troubled mind looks to make something of their life they have examples in the media to copycat that look like a way out of their despair. Sadly, the places that should be giving moral guidance (the church) is complicit in this with the interlocking of religious and political belief to connect valor, faith, patriotism that supports the NRA platform.
going4roses
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He should have been incarcerated or in a mental health facility long before the shooting. Or at least no access to any arms whatsoever.
B.A. Bearacus
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going4roses
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Whomever made that call needs to go to prison and pay a heavy fine
Another Bear
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Someone should set a trap for the NRA loyalist...because they will try something like this again.
Another Bear
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A class of 8th graders were given bulletproof shields before starting high school to protect them from shootings

BearChemist
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bearister
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BearChemist said:




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Another Bear
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This is not a coincidence this info was released today...after the 12 indictments of Russians last week and after Trump sucked off Putin in front of the world in today's press conference. This was to send a message to the Trumpkins, the jig is up. They're coming.
Another Bear
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The NRA Got Played by Russia

Seems the NRA's fate is tied to the GOP.
bearister
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Do you think Wayne snouted about in the ole carrot patch?*

Happiness is a warm gun (bang bang shoot shoot)
Happiness is a warm gun, mama (bang bang shoot shoot)
When I hold you in my arms (oh, yeah)
And I feel my finger on your trigger (oh, yeah)
I know nobody can do me no harm (oh, yeah)
Because, (happiness) is a warm gun, mama (bang bang shoot shoot)
Happiness is a warm gun, yes it is (bang bang shoot shoot)
Lennon/McCartney


*Provided the carpet matches the drapes.
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B.A. Bearacus
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I'm sure he has justifiably been called Pepe LaPierre before.
going4roses
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Another Bear said:

The NRA Got Played by Russia

Seems the NRA's fate is tied to the GOP.



But will this really make a difference/will anything change the present course?
sycasey
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going4roses said:

Another Bear said:

The NRA Got Played by Russia

Seems the NRA's fate is tied to the GOP.



But will this really make a difference/will anything change the present course?
Everything makes a difference, even if only on the margins. There's no way this is good for the NRA.
bearister
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Trump Is Being Manipulated by Putin. What Should We Do

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/opinion/trump-russia-putin-republican-congress.html

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bearister
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"Americans will soon be able to make 3D-printed guns from their homes, widening the door to do-it-yourself versions of firearms."
"The choices will include the AR-15, [often used] in American mass shootings."
Why it matters: "All 3D-printed guns will be untraceable, and since you can make them yourself, no background check is required."
"A settlement earlier this year between the State Department and Texas-based Defense Distributed will let the nonprofit release blueprints for guns online starting Aug. 1, a development hailed by the group as the death of gun control in the United States."
"Assembling guns at home isn't new. It is legal provided the made-at-home gun isn't sold":

"The printers needed to make the guns can cost from $5,000 to $600,000, according to Vice News. The quality of plastic matters, too: An early design printed by federal agents shattered after one shot. A second gun, made from a higher grade resin, stayed intact."
Be smart: "The plans being made freely available next month put firearms a few computer key clicks away from anyone with the right machine and materials. That reality has startled gun control advocates, who say it makes untraceable firearms all the more available." Axios

I'm gonna get me one of them fancy print'in machines and run me off a dozen of these bad boys:

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Another Bear
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Whoa...could the NRA be going down? Hard to tell if they're crying wolf or if this is real. Don't know what the NY state legal pressure means but it seems the NRA might have trouble running day-to-day operations. Nicking banking services seems the way to cripple any enterprise. If this is real all I can say is WHOA...major generational and societal shift occurring now. Killing off the NRA would be the first step to some sane gun safety regulations.

The NRA Says It's in Deep Financial Trouble, May Be 'Unable to Exist'
Quote:

A legal filing against the state of New York paints a grim picture of the powerful gun group
Quote:

In the new document an amended complaint filed in U.S. District Court in late July the NRA says it cannot access financial services essential to its operations and is facing "irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm."

Specifically, the NRA warns that it has lost insurance coverage endangering day-to-day operations.

"Insurance coverage is necessary for the NRA to continue its existence," the complaint reads. Without general liability coverage, it adds, the "NRA cannot maintain its physical premises, convene off-site meetings and events, operate educational programs or hold rallies, conventions and assemblies."

The complaint says the NRA's video streaming service and magazines may soon shut down.

"The NRA's inability to obtain insurance in connection with media liability raises risks that are especially acute; if insurers remain afraid to transact with the NRA, there is a substantial risk that NRATV will be forced to cease operating." The group also warns it "could be forced to cease circulation of various print publications and magazines."

In addition to its insurance troubles, the NRA court filing also claims that "abuses" by Cuomo and the New York State Department of Financial Services "will imminently deprive the NRA of basic bank-depository services and other financial services essential to the NRA's corporate existence."
Unit2Sucks
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Sounds like they need to move HQ to another state. I'm sure Texas would be happy to have them.
Another Bear
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That makes sense...unless the NY state action "leaves a mark", something insurers can't ignore, i.e., risk they can't assume. I don't know enough about it or what NY is doing but I can see pariah status given the conservative nature of insurance, and maybe that crosses state lines.
golden sloth
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Another Bear said:

Whoa...could the NRA be going down? Hard to tell if they're crying wolf or if this is real. Don't know what the NY state legal pressure means but it seems the NRA might have trouble running day-to-day operations. Nicking banking services seems the way to cripple any enterprise. If this is real all I can say is WHOA...major generational and societal shift occurring now. Killing off the NRA would be the first step to some sane gun safety regulations.

The NRA Says It's in Deep Financial Trouble, May Be 'Unable to Exist'
Quote:

A legal filing against the state of New York paints a grim picture of the powerful gun group
Quote:

In the new document an amended complaint filed in U.S. District Court in late July the NRA says it cannot access financial services essential to its operations and is facing "irrecoverable loss and irreparable harm."

Specifically, the NRA warns that it has lost insurance coverage endangering day-to-day operations.

"Insurance coverage is necessary for the NRA to continue its existence," the complaint reads. Without general liability coverage, it adds, the "NRA cannot maintain its physical premises, convene off-site meetings and events, operate educational programs or hold rallies, conventions and assemblies."

The complaint says the NRA's video streaming service and magazines may soon shut down.

"The NRA's inability to obtain insurance in connection with media liability raises risks that are especially acute; if insurers remain afraid to transact with the NRA, there is a substantial risk that NRATV will be forced to cease operating." The group also warns it "could be forced to cease circulation of various print publications and magazines."

In addition to its insurance troubles, the NRA court filing also claims that "abuses" by Cuomo and the New York State Department of Financial Services "will imminently deprive the NRA of basic bank-depository services and other financial services essential to the NRA's corporate existence."

Although this would be awesome, I am highly skeptical. Alex Jones has been pleading poverty for a decade to get his followers to buy his seriously dubious products, the NRA is looking to add to their coffers for the mid-term run. The most important mid-term in my lifetime.

Also, I am confidant Russia will bail them out financially if needed.
sycasey
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I would imagine the NRA is exaggerating their problems in the court filing . . . but there also probably wouldn't be a court filing unless they had a legit problem. Seems like public pressure is already taking its toll on the NRA.
Another Bear
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The reasonable and cautious approach would be both to be skeptical of the NRA but also seeing the pressure from NY state/public as real. Sandy Hook has stuck in NY's collective craw. Mass murder of young children has that effect.
sycasey
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Yes, and the activism of the Parkland kids, plus the Maria Butina stuff, has started making the NRA toxic to other businesses (socially and legally). Seems like banks and insurers are now much less willing to work with them.

It's not one thing that turns the tide, but rather that social change tends to pile on with a cumulative effect, and then we recognize the "tipping point" after the fact.
Another Bear
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golden sloth said:

Although this would be awesome, I am highly skeptical. Alex Jones has been pleading poverty for a decade to get his followers to buy his seriously dubious products, the NRA is looking to add to their coffers for the mid-term run. The most important mid-term in my lifetime.

Also, I am confidant Russia will bail them out financially if needed.

The skepticism of the NRA's motives is warranted. However I think things have changed with the arrest of "Red Maria" Butina, who infiltrated the NRA, was arrested and is awaiting trial. Before Mueller-Russia I agree Russia might have provided funds but things have changed significantly.
prospeCt
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https://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/donald-trump-supreme-court-236925

https://www.nationofchange.org/2018/06/30/money-talks-justice-kennedys-retirement-tied-to-the-trump-family-koch-brothers-all-in-on-new-nominee/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/us/politics/father-of-koch-brothers-helped-build-nazi-oil-refinery-book-says.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/history/2017/06/james_mcgill_buchanan_s_terrifying_vision_of_society_is_the_intellectual.html
concordtom
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The National Rifle Association (NRA) has said it's suffering from substantial financial issues that could cause the organisation to "be unable to exist".

In a recent court filing, the powerful organisation that lobbies on behalf of gun makers, owners and campaigns against almost all gun regulations, said it had lost its media insurance coverage due to an aggressive campaign brought on by New York's Democratic Governor Andrew Cuomo. The campaign encouraged companies to cut ties with the gun lobbying group. A lack of liability insurance threatens to shut down the group's multi-million dollar media entities, including NRATV, its own streaming channel.

"The NRA's inability to obtain insurance in connection with media liability raises risks that are especially acute; if insurers remain afraid to transact with the NRA, there is a substantial risk that NRATV will be forced to cease operating," the group wrote in its complaint, filed in New York's northern district court 20 July. "Defendants' concerted efforts to stifle the NRA's freedom of speech and to retaliate against the NRA based on its viewpoints are causing other insurance, banking, and financial institutions doing business with the NRA."

The complaint goes on to allege that other companies are being forced "to rethink their mutually beneficial business relationships with the NRA for fear of monetary sanctions or expensive public investigations."
The lawsuit arrives after the NRA was forced to pay a $7m fine for selling an illegally branded NRA insurance policy. That policy refunded legal costs for NRA members who fired legal guns. New York state determined the insurance was illegal, writing the group has "unlawfully provided liability insurance to gun owners for certain acts of intentional wrongdoing".

Financial regulators in New York then cracked down on the organisation, according to the NRA's complaint, causing other financial providers to block the group's access to necessary services.
This isn't the first time the group has reportedly suffered from financial concerns. A ProPublica investigation found that the NRA had overspent by $46m in 2016 a presidential campaign year in which it had spent at least $30m to help elect Donald Trump.

The NRA has demanded the court provide an immediate injunction barring New York officials from "interfering with, terminating, or diminishing any of the NRA's contracts and/or business relationships with any organisations."

The governor's office, which did not immediately respond to requests for comment, has previously described the NRA's court filings as "a futile and desperate attempt to advance its dangerous agenda to sell more guns."
"In New York, we won't be intimidated by frivolous court actions from a group of lobbyists bent on chipping away at common sense gun safety laws that many responsible gun owners actually support," Mr Cuomo wrote in a statement.

"While the NRA ignores students across the nation who are saying enough is enough, New York is leading the way with the toughest and smartest gun safety laws in the country. I am proud of my 'F' rating from the NRA, and I will continue to do everything I can to keep New Yorkers safe."

The court filings were first reported by the New York Law Journal.
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