sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Trump was charged very quickly and raided...

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He was not charged quickly. His residence was only "raided" after he refused multiple requests to return the documents. If he'd just given them back immediately there would be no prosecution for this.

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Under the Presidential Records Act..those documents are his. Good luck proving they aren't.

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Trump was charged very quickly and raided...

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He was not charged quickly. His residence was only "raided" after he refused multiple requests to return the documents. If he'd just given them back immediately there would be no prosecution for this.

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The whole point of Biden's unprecedented, unnecessary, and unlawful raid on Trump was to get his declassified and damning Crossfire Hurricane records.

Unit2Sucks said:

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Even if Biden were prosecutable for hanging on to classified documents (which were promptly returned without fuss when discovered, unlike Trump), there is an OLC memo which the DOJ has relied on for decades. It's why nothing in the Mieller report could ever have resulted in charges against Trump and why the Mueller report was written as it was.

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Biden's classified documents were stolen, he wasn't authorized to take them to his residence or the other locations where they were found nor did he have the authority to declassify them.

BearHunter said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearHunter said:

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dajo9 said:

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BearHunter said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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BearHunter said:

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calpoly said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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He lost money while he was president.that's a known fact.

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He lost money before he was the president...that's a known fact. He is a terrible business person.

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He lost money while he was president and donated his federal government salary.

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Trump made more money from charging Secret Service agents and foreign diplomats for rooms at Trump Hotels than he would have collected in Presidential salary.

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Again, where's your evidence?

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You don't care about evidence. You will ignore evidence. You will pretend it doesn't exist and go on your way. A few months from now, if the topic comes up again - you wlll ask for the evidence. You are a black hole of informative thought. It's pointless to provide you with evidence of anything.

Evidence:
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/17/1129491352/trump-hotels-overcharged-secret-service-agents
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2022/11/14/foreign-officials-spent-750000-at-trumps-dc-hotel-while-lobbying-us-government-lawmakers-say/?sh=7ac294291f5a

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President Trump is the first President in modern history who actually lost money during his time in the White House. President Trump left office with a net worth of about $2.5 billion, down from $4.5 billion when he announced his candidacy for president in 2015.

President Trump also kept his promise and donated all of his $1.6 million in salary to charity during his time in the White House.

How much did Trump personally make from selling hotel rooms?

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The article I linked says revenue from selling Trump hotels to secret service and foreign diplomats was $5.75 million. Trump ripped off the secret service and donating salary doesn't justify that.

Also, Trump assets were down because of Covid. Trump is a habitual loser, liar, and conman.

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Oh and I forgot to add that government officials and foreign officials have stayed at his properties prior to him becoming president and continue to do so. For the Secret Service, the article says $1.4 million but how much of that exceeded GSA rates? The article doesn't say.

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Reading is hard. I know. But if you put on your big boy pants and go slow you'll see that BOTH of the articles I posted mention Trump charged the secret service nearly 5 times the customary rate (one of the articles specifically mentioned the GSA rate).

MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Trump was charged very quickly and raided...

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He was not charged quickly. His residence was only "raided" after he refused multiple requests to return the documents. If he'd just given them back immediately there would be no prosecution for this.

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Under the Presidential Records Act..those documents are his. Good luck proving they aren't.

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Hahaha

MinotStateBeav said:

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Biden held onto those documents for years and decades lol Mr. Promptly. It wasn't until after he ordered his DOJ to go after his political opponent that they went *cough *cough...we should make sure we don't have egg on our face? oops...lets take care of this silently before they move.

You are literally like arguing with some extreme TDS version of Maddow, nothing my guy does counts!!!!!!!!

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It's like you went on a misinformation bender last night.

You can't possibly believe Biden spent 18 months orchestrating the conversation between NARA, the FBI and Trump. Yet you make these silly claims. You are one of those people who pretends that Biden is both a bumbling old fool and a mastermind orchestrator of justice who apparently forces Trump to very publicly commit crimes which he and his fellow criminals voluntarily admit to. This is no different from any of the other conflicting baseless conspiracy theories you believe in. It's all hopium.

Nor can you believe that the records Trump intentionally retained (including national defense information) were lawfully his. His argument is beyond dumb and for you to parrot it is either the real TDS or you are simply playing make believe, neither of which would surprise me.

The thing about reality is that it's true whether or not you believe it. So criticize me all you want.

First flock of California condors seen in East Bay in over 100 years


https://www.ktvu.com/news/first-flock-of-california-condors-seen-in-east-bay-in-over-100-years

Daily Mail: The 'dream' of multicultural Britain is dead: Suella Braverman warns West faces 'existential' threat from uncontrolled immigration as she says UK is living with consequences of people failing to 'integrate' - in US speech demanding asylum rules overhaul

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12562519/Suella-Braverman-warns-uncontrolled-immigration-existential-threat-West-bold-speech-demanding-overhaul-refugee-rules-says-gay-not-claim-asylum.html

Unit2Sucks said:

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Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

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It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

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It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

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Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

Not an anomaly: 2020's red states have higher murder rates


https://www.axios.com/2023/01/27/murder-rate-high-trump-republican-states

tequila4kapp said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

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It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

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But that makes democrat policies look like doo doo and therefore is misinformation and should be banned.

tequila4kapp said:

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dimitrig said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

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It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

---

Is that why San Francisco's crime totals and violent crime totals were lower in 2022 than 2017, 2018 or 2019?

Which cities defunded police? Did Jacksonville? They are a red city in a red state suffering from rising crime rates, unlike the democrat run cities that Fox News agitprop wants you to talk about. Jacksonville has about 3x as many murders as SF despite being a similar sized city.

Is it possible that the policy decisions you are questioning don't actually correlate that closely to crime rates?

I'm just asking questions because you seem to have all the answers.

Unit2Sucks said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

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Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

---

It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

---

Is that why San Francisco's crime totals and violent crime totals were lower in 2022 than 2017, 2018 or 2019?

Which cities defunded police? Did Jacksonville? They are a red city in a red state suffering from rising crime rates, unlike the democrat run cities that Fox News agitprop wants you to talk about. Jacksonville has about 3x as many murders as SF despite being a similar sized city.

Is it possible that the policy decisions you are questioning don't actually correlate that closely to crime rates?

I'm just asking questions because you seem to have all the answers.

---

Crime statistics are going to be lower if a subset of crimes are not charged and prosecuted.

I don't have all the answers. But some of this is common sense. Drug use requires money. Addicts/habitual users commonly don't have money to support their habits and turn to theft type crimes to support their habits. The fact they are not prosecuted means they get to keep doing more of it. Sure, it is possible there's no correlation between the policy decisions and crime but that is extraordinarily improbable.

We can site statistics all we want. Major retailers are leaving long established locals in The City and publicly saying it is because of crime. That is actually happening in numerous cities. I do not recall this ever happening, much less on the scale we see today. I mean, it is possible there is a conspiracy among large retailers to voluntarily give up there (presumably) long time profitable locations. Or maybe crime is a real problem.

What cities defunded the police? Is that a real question? New York, Minneapolis/St Paul, Austin, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, Chicago (I think), to name a few.

Look at Nordstrom, Union Square, Oakland. Dozens of drug stores have closed. Target just announced there will be multiple closings in major urban cities, including Northern California.

Both the City and Oakland are several hundred officers short of full staffing, and recruiting classes are anemic even though there are many scheduled retirements in the pipeline. Which means without a major push, things will get worse.

tequila4kapp said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

---

It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

---

Is that why San Francisco's crime totals and violent crime totals were lower in 2022 than 2017, 2018 or 2019?

Which cities defunded police? Did Jacksonville? They are a red city in a red state suffering from rising crime rates, unlike the democrat run cities that Fox News agitprop wants you to talk about. Jacksonville has about 3x as many murders as SF despite being a similar sized city.

Is it possible that the policy decisions you are questioning don't actually correlate that closely to crime rates?

I'm just asking questions because you seem to have all the answers.

---

Crime statistics are going to be lower if a subset of crimes are not charged and prosecuted.

I don't have all the answers. But some of this is common sense. Drug use requires money. Addicts/habitual users commonly don't have money to support their habits and turn to theft type crimes to support their habits. The fact they are not prosecuted means they get to keep doing more of it. Sure, it is possible there's no correlation between the policy decisions and crime but that is extraordinarily improbable.

We can site statistics all we want. Major retailers are leaving long established locals in The City and publicly saying it is because of crime. That is actually happening in numerous cities. I do not recall this ever happening, much less on the scale we see today. I mean, it is possible there is a conspiracy among large retailers to voluntarily give up there (presumably) long time profitable locations. Or maybe crime is a real problem.

What cities defunded the police? Is that a real question? New York, Minneapolis/St Paul, Austin, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, Chicago (I think), to name a few.

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Sorry, I didn't realize you were using "defund" the police to refer to increasing police budgets.

LA increased their police budget by over $100M.
NYC increased their police budget too.
Seattle did too.
Chicago did too.

I'm getting tired of looking all of these up - why don't you tell us which cities have actually "defunded" the police and how that has led to an increase in crime. And maybe while you are at it you can explain why all of these red cities in red states which have the policies you favor (like Jacksonville, which I mentioned earlier) continue to suffer higher crime rates.

I thought you were an expert on this stuff but it is beginning to sound like you have fallen for Fox News agitprop.

Increase funding now...for what? You can't hire enough cops because nobody wants to work as a cop in those cities now. These cops aren't dumb, they see they'll be hung out to dry if a dude dies of a drug OD while being placed under arrest. It'll cause a riot, they get hung out to dry and tried for murder. Even doing exactly as they were trained. They'll be George Floyded.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Increase funding now...for what? You can't hire enough cops because nobody wants to work as a cop in those cities now. These cops aren't dumb, they see they'll be hung out to dry if a dude dies of a drug OD while being placed under arrest. It'll cause a riot, they get hung out to dry and tried for murder. Even doing exactly as they were trained. They'll be George Floyded.

---

Is that why violent crime and murders are down in San Francisco and why the murder rate in Minneapolis was lower in 2022 than it was the year Floyd was murdered by a racist cop who illegally voted in Florida? Or perhaps why 7 of the top 10 states with highest murder rates are red states?

I thought you guys were saying that defunding the police (by increasing funding) was the culprit.

I'm beginning to wonder if you guys have any idea what you are talking about.

Testimony this morning from cops in Chicago. I have more btw to refute anything you're going to say if you want. So please..continue.

dimitrig said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

---

It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

---

Is that why San Francisco's crime totals and violent crime totals were lower in 2022 than 2017, 2018 or 2019?

Which cities defunded police? Did Jacksonville? They are a red city in a red state suffering from rising crime rates, unlike the democrat run cities that Fox News agitprop wants you to talk about. Jacksonville has about 3x as many murders as SF despite being a similar sized city.

Is it possible that the policy decisions you are questioning don't actually correlate that closely to crime rates?

I'm just asking questions because you seem to have all the answers.

---

Crime statistics are going to be lower if a subset of crimes are not charged and prosecuted.

I don't have all the answers. But some of this is common sense. Drug use requires money. Addicts/habitual users commonly don't have money to support their habits and turn to theft type crimes to support their habits. The fact they are not prosecuted means they get to keep doing more of it. Sure, it is possible there's no correlation between the policy decisions and crime but that is extraordinarily improbable.

We can site statistics all we want. Major retailers are leaving long established locals in The City and publicly saying it is because of crime. That is actually happening in numerous cities. I do not recall this ever happening, much less on the scale we see today. I mean, it is possible there is a conspiracy among large retailers to voluntarily give up there (presumably) long time profitable locations. Or maybe crime is a real problem.

What cities defunded the police? Is that a real question? New York, Minneapolis/St Paul, Austin, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, Chicago (I think), to name a few.

---

How much does it cost to incarcerate someone?

LA County spends $90K per year per inmate. That's a lot of diapers stolen from Target.

Republicans are willing to spend money to lock people up but won't spend any money on social programs to help keep people out of jail.

These corporations should also ask themselves if they are socially responsible or what they could be doing. They are supposedly members of the community, but when the going gets tough they leave instead of helping to solve the problem

---

By not locking them up, it leads to more violent crime. The recidivism rate for crime in Chicago is 89%. People that don't get locked up, never get locked up because the victims refuse to testify against somebody out with no bail. They just get re-victimized. Maybe it's not a "muh corporations" problem. What can "muh corporations" do to keep voters from voting for more extreme DAs, Judges, and Mayors. They're just going to leave because you voters are nuts.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Testimony this morning from cops in Chicago. I have more btw to refute anything you're going to say if you want. So please..continue.

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You think a Gym Jordan political stunt at the fraternal order of police HQ is a mic drop lol?

This is exactly the sort of agitprop I assume you fall for. He should be helping avoid a government shutdown but instead he's focused on more hand waving and misdirection. If Gym cared about crime he wouldn't have looked the other way on sexual abuse in the team he coached.

Chicago certainly has crime problems, but it's not because they defunded the police.

Unit2Sucks said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

Apparently Seattle is a hellscape but no one (that Fox News could find) seems to realize it.

Fox News tried to do a bunch of scary man-on-the-street interviews about crime. It didn't go well. pic.twitter.com/49PVjwgFBB

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 26, 2023

---

It's not Seattle, but my nephew lived in Tacoma until recently and someone tried to steal his car. It was parked under his apartment building. The only reason they didn't take it was because he rarely drives it and the battery was dead so it wouldn't start. They still screwed up the ignition and steering wheel.

Crime happens everywhere. I don't know why Republicans try to politicize it but I suspect they think they can scare weak-minded elderly people into voting for them.

---

Because it correlates to policy decisions to legalize hard drugs, defund police, stop prosecuting "small" crimes and virtually eliminate bail.

---

Is that why San Francisco's crime totals and violent crime totals were lower in 2022 than 2017, 2018 or 2019?

Which cities defunded police? Did Jacksonville? They are a red city in a red state suffering from rising crime rates, unlike the democrat run cities that Fox News agitprop wants you to talk about. Jacksonville has about 3x as many murders as SF despite being a similar sized city.

Is it possible that the policy decisions you are questioning don't actually correlate that closely to crime rates?

I'm just asking questions because you seem to have all the answers.

---

Crime statistics are going to be lower if a subset of crimes are not charged and prosecuted.

I don't have all the answers. But some of this is common sense. Drug use requires money. Addicts/habitual users commonly don't have money to support their habits and turn to theft type crimes to support their habits. The fact they are not prosecuted means they get to keep doing more of it. Sure, it is possible there's no correlation between the policy decisions and crime but that is extraordinarily improbable.

We can site statistics all we want. Major retailers are leaving long established locals in The City and publicly saying it is because of crime. That is actually happening in numerous cities. I do not recall this ever happening, much less on the scale we see today. I mean, it is possible there is a conspiracy among large retailers to voluntarily give up there (presumably) long time profitable locations. Or maybe crime is a real problem.

What cities defunded the police? Is that a real question? New York, Minneapolis/St Paul, Austin, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, Chicago (I think), to name a few.

---

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using "defund" the police to refer to increasing police budgets.

LA increased their police budget by over $100M.
NYC increased their police budget too.
Seattle did too.
Chicago did too.

I'm getting tired of looking all of these up - why don't you tell us which cities have actually "defunded" the police and how that has led to an increase in crime. And maybe while you are at it you can explain why all of these red cities in red states which have the policies you favor (like Jacksonville, which I mentioned earlier) continue to suffer higher crime rates.

I thought you were an expert on this stuff but it is beginning to sound like you have fallen for Fox News agitprop.

---

Your links show information about increases to 2022 and 2023 budgets. Links to 2020 budgets in the heat of the defund the police movement are shown below. Just as I said they did, back in 2020 - during the height of DFP movement - each city reduced police spending. The fact they increased budgets 3 years later is an obvious indication they found defunding the police didn't work; crime increased and people/politicians believed more police officers were needed.

Los Angeles: https://abc7.com/defund-the-police-lapd-los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti/6289037/#:~:text=LOS%20ANGELES%20(KABC)%20%2D%2D%20The,in%20opposition%20to%20the%20decision.

NYC: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/nyregion/nypd-budget.html

Seattle: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattles-botched-experiment-with-defund-the-police-now-could-mean-unwinding-10000-tows/

Chicago: there are assorted articles about the mayor's 2020 budget requesting an 80M "reallocation" of money from the police budget to other departments; then articles where she and the next mayor walk it back.