OT: Duke Climate Change Study

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jyamada
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OdontoBear66;842488926 said:

To keep it simple there is only one thing that ever made me crossover and that was the Vietnam War. My thinking is so embedded in fiscal conservatism (and I emphasize fiscal) plus anti Union (since shortly after Taft Hartley Act) feelings. Then throw is a strong dash of fear of "more" government of any type (whether war making by one side, or social giveaways by the other) and it would be a hard thing to ever change party sides politically. But that does not mean I do not cherish our environment, feel women should have a choice (total) in theirs lives, despise our tolerance of enemies who proclaim intolerance of us, do not try to "give back" in any way I can, etc., etc. I only give this example to show that each side is not all one thing or another. I do not care if you disagree with everything I believe in, but do not categorize me as a Tea Partier, or and Ultra Liberal, neither of which I come even close to.

Oh, and if you have the inclination, please explain to me how someone who is adamantly against abortion can be for the death penalty, and then the total converse: adamantly against the death penalty, for allowance of abortion? Some things transcend political boundaries and parties and defy logic.


I think we're more alike than not. Go Bears!
bearister
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OdontoBear66;842488926 said:

...Oh, and if you have the inclination, please explain to me how someone who is adamantly against abortion can be for the death penalty, and then the total converse: adamantly against the death penalty, for allowance of abortion?


I always take the bait to come up with an argument on demand:

Someone who is in favor of the death penalty and against abortion might argue that a fetus is an innocent human not deserving of termination whereas a person convicted of a capital crime is not innocent and is deserving of termination.

Someone who is against the death penalty but in favor of abortion might argue that it is wrong to take another person's life, even if they commit a capital crime but that abortion is not taking a life because a fetus is not a human being or that even if a fetus is a human being (they would have to admit that they don't know for sure one way or the other) that it is a justified termination of a human life.
68great
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jyamada;842488911 said:

What would it take to make you cross over to the other side? Social issues? Economic issues? You say you did well with Clinton....I assume you meant in the market and your net worth. Were you a bit nervous with your finances at the end of GWBush's reign? I was extremely nervous and worried that I might lose all my money that was sitting in the bank. How about under Obama? Have you made up all your losses and some? My mistaken belief for the past 20-30 years was that the republicans were better for the economy. I'm a social liberal but if I truly felt the economy would be so much better and for my own selfish reasons, my own finances would be better under a republican, I might consider voting for a republican. Personally, I've seen no signs of my own finances and the country as a whole, doing better under republican rule. Maybe it's just a coincidence. I don't know but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I tell all my republican friends and acquaintances that they're probably better off financially with a democrat in the White House than a republican. They tell me no way....it's the republican congress that did this or the president is just a figure head and can't do much for the economy etc. Bottom line, democrats in the White House have historically done better that republicans, at least over the past 80-90 years. I was always under the impression that republicans were more into the finances and economy. Why wouldn't most republicans switch over if there was a pretty good chance that their financial situation would improve under a democrat?


On social issues I am a liberal. On international issues I am a realist (i.e. we need a strong military since there are a lot of people who would do us harm but a good realist will use the militiary only as a last resort. Cooperation is better where possible.)
On econmic issues I used to think that in certain areas the Dems were better and on other areas the Repubs were better.
So I saw it as a good thing on economic issues that control of the White House and Congress swung between the Dems and the Repubs.

At the time the Repubs as a group were a rational lot. Supported Social Security, Public education, public services, solid infrastructure, civil rights, and strong business.

But over time I began to conclude that the Country is better off overall when more people are better off ecomomically.
Better for the poor and Middle Class and better for the Rich whose wealth will grow faster if the Poor and Middle Class are better off.
Tax policy has an impact on making sure that the wealth does not get trapped at the top. The 1950's 1960's were the best time for the US population and that was a time of high prosperity and high standard of living for ALL and high taxes.

At the same time i saw the Repubs becoming more and more of a party of "Devil take the hindmost" "If you are poor, you deserve to be poor." "Who needs public education, all my kids went to private school." "If you want an abortion now, too bad you should have said 'No' then."

Then the Repubs (or a large segment") went crazy for ideological reasons: (i)shutting down the Congress if they did not get their way; (ii) freezing government credit (iii) refusing to increase taxes for any purpose even those they supported (all at a time when wealth disparity is highest it has been since the Gilded Age); (iv) attempting to seriously dismantle the safety net of social security and health care and unemployment insurance.

When the latest crash occurred who was bailed out: the Rich, stockholders and the banks.
In the late 1980's when the Savings and Loan crash hit, who took the brunt of the hit: the Rich, stockholders and the banks.

So at present the Dems are the party of the good economy and the Repubs are against it. For me the choice is clear. And you can count me as a person with an above average annual income.
sycasey
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68great;842488966 said:

On social issues I am a liberal. On international issues I am a realist (i.e. we need a strong military since there are a lot of people who would do us harm but a good realist will use the militiary only as a last resort. Cooperation is better where possible.)
On econmic issues I used to think that in certain areas the Dems were better and on other areas the Repubs were better.
So I saw it as a good thing on economic issues that control of the White House and Congress swung between the Dems and the Repubs.

At the time the Repubs as a group were a rational lot. Supported Social Security, Public education, public services, solid infrastructure, civil rights, and strong business.

But over time I began to conclude that the Country is better off overall when more people are better off ecomomically.
Better for the poor and Middle Class and better for the Rich whose wealth will grow faster if the Poor and Middle Class are better off.
Tax policy has an impact on making sure that the wealth does not get trapped at the top. The 1950's 1960's were the best time for the US population and that was a time of high prosperity and high standard of living for ALL and high taxes.

At the same time i saw the Repubs becoming more and more of a party of "Devil take the hindmost" "If you are poor, you deserve to be poor." "Who needs public education, all my kids went to private school." "If you want an abortion now, too bad you should have said 'No' then."

Then the Repubs (or a large segment") went crazy for ideological reasons: (i)shutting down the Congress if they did not get their way; (ii) freezing government credit (iii) refusing to increase taxes for any purpose even those they supported (all at a time when wealth disparity is highest it has been since the Gilded Age); (iv) attempting to seriously dismantle the safety net of social security and health care and unemployment insurance.

When the latest crash occurred who was bailed out: the Rich, stockholders and the banks.
In the late 1980's when the Savings and Loan crash hit, who took the brunt of the hit: the Rich, stockholders and the banks.

So at present the Dems are the party of the good economy and the Repubs are against it. For me the choice is clear. And you can count me as a person with an above average annual income.


This is also how I see it. At one time you could find reasonable disagreement between parties, but lately the Republican Party has become the party of inflexible ideologues. A party that basically exists only to grind government to a halt, not to operate it sensibly. (NOTE: Here I am not talking about rank-and-file voters, but rather the party leadership who controls message and strategy. Though I do think that some of those who continue to vote Republican should try to open their eyes about what their party has become.)
bearister
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sycasey;842488976 said:

This is also how I see it. At one time you could find reasonable disagreement between parties, but lately the Republican Party has become the party of inflexible ideologues. A party that basically exists only to grind government to a halt, not to operate it sensibly. (NOTE: Here I am not talking about rank-and-file voters, but rather the party leadership who controls message and strategy. Though I do think that some of those who continue to vote Republican should try to open their eyes about what their party has become.)


The Republican Presidential Primary Debates promise to be nothing short of a circus sideshow. It should be great theater.




SRBear
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I hate the fact that there is poverty in this country.
It's horrible people have to live in neighborhoods that require bars on windows and doors and wonder when the next bullet takes out one of their children.
It stinks that public education leaves so many behind.
It's hard to understand how gangs can rule neighborhoods and no one can stop them.
I don't like giving money away to other countries just so they might like us....f them.
We should not be world police. (Though, I thought the south park guys puppet movie was pretty funny)
I don't like giving money away to people who don't work and are able bodied. There should be plenty they can do to help around their neighborhoods while looking for work. If they want to suck the teat, they should help maintain the beast.
I think it's sad that people walk their dogs with $10k collars after coming from a $200 dollar grooming past a homeless person.
I'm for choice, but it shouldn't be birth control for those too lazy to practice safe sex.
Do we really need a new governmental agency every time something comes up?
Finally...can we just find some politicians who are actually in it for their constituents. Seems they all have two faces.
bearister
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SRBear;842488987 said:

I hate the fact that there is poverty in this country.
It's horrible people have to live in neighborhoods that require bars on windows and doors and wonder when the next bullet takes out one of their children.
It stinks that public education leaves so many behind.
It's hard to understand how gangs can rule neighborhoods and no one can stop them.
I don't like giving money away to other countries just so they might like us....f them.
We should not be world police. (Though, I thought the south park guys puppet movie was pretty funny)
I don't like giving money away to people who don't work and are able bodied. There should be plenty they can do to help around their neighborhoods while looking for work. If they want to suck the teat, they should help maintain the beast.
I think it's sad that people walk their dogs with $10k collars after coming from a $200 dollar grooming past a homeless person.
I'm for choice, but it shouldn't be birth control for those too lazy to practice safe sex.
Do we really need a new governmental agency every time something comes up?
Finally...can we just find some politicians who are actually in it for their constituents. Seems they all have two faces.


I think we are politically aligned.
OdontoBear66
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SRBear;842488987 said:

I hate the fact that there is poverty in this country.
It's horrible people have to live in neighborhoods that require bars on windows and doors and wonder when the next bullet takes out one of their children.
It stinks that public education leaves so many behind.
It's hard to understand how gangs can rule neighborhoods and no one can stop them.
I don't like giving money away to other countries just so they might like us....f them.
We should not be world police. (Though, I thought the south park guys puppet movie was pretty funny)
I don't like giving money away to people who don't work and are able bodied. There should be plenty they can do to help around their neighborhoods while looking for work. If they want to suck the teat, they should help maintain the beast.
I think it's sad that people walk their dogs with $10k collars after coming from a $200 dollar grooming past a homeless person.
I'm for choice, but it shouldn't be birth control for those too lazy to practice safe sex.
Do we really need a new governmental agency every time something comes up?
Finally...can we just find some politicians who are actually in it for their constituents. Seems they all have two faces.


Sounds pretty good to me.
dajo9
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OdontoBear66;842488926 said:

To keep it simple there is only one thing that ever made me crossover and that was the Vietnam War. My thinking is so embedded in fiscal conservatism (and I emphasize fiscal) plus anti Union (since shortly after Taft Hartley Act) feelings.


What it means to be a fiscal conservative is a mystery to me. The most conservative people in office during my lifetime have been the most reckless fiscally. Just look at what is going on in Kansas right now.

I am strongly fiscally responsible. I believe in modest debt (some Federal debt is good for the capital markets) and taxing to pay for what we want. Defense, education, infrastructure, social security, healthcare. Clinton, Bush Sr, and Obama have been very responsible. Reagan and GWB were very reckless. Ask a conservative which of those they dislike the most.
FCBear
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I for one am truly excited for Global Warming...
GB54
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Republicans should be jumping with joy if Clinton wins. They will control both houses and last time this happened with a Clinton President they got a balanced budget, welfare reform, tax cuts, repeal of Glass Steagall, Defense of Marriage Act and a war on crime. Clinton was the best Republican President since Reagan. Hillary will be the second best plus she'll bust balls all over the Middle East
BearGoggles
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OaktownBear;842488899 said:

You do realize, right that people on both sides of the political spectrum can come up with an equivalent list about any politician on the other side based on items reported by whatever their favorite news organization is. And by the way, on what Nixon "didn't dare do" there are 18 minutes of daring to do that people might take up with you.

Like it or not, Clinton is a big favorite to win and the Republicans know that and that is why they are pushing these mini-scandals already. Democratic women will vote for her in droves. The Black vote that she lost to Obama will come back to her. The Clinton's ground game and political savvy added to the presidential year elections when the Democratic base actually shows up make her formidable in the general. She will win unless the Republicans can find a scandal to mortally wound her. The above ain't gonna get it done.


You have mischaracterized the purpose of my post - look what I was responding too. It was the assertion that the Clintons "had done nothing wrong." I wasn't suggesting that that some Republicans don't do the same types of things. However, I "call wrong" when I see it and it is foolilsh to assert Clilntons' recent actions are not wrong. And I certainly wasn't defending Nixon, only pointing out that if he were a Clinton, he would have destroyed all of the tapes.

I have no problem with Hillary running. She is the most conservative democrat by far - if elected she will be much more centrist than any other candidate (or for that matter Obama). If a conservative can't win, my choice is Hillary (hopefully that will give you pause). She is pandering to the far left, but when elected, I bet she's moderate (and hawkish).

I disagree that she is a shoe in. A lot will depend on if the republicans nominate a quality candidate and if Clinton continues to make mkistakes and run a lethargic campaign. Obviously, the economy and foreign, policy will play a part. I do agree that if she runs a good campaign and the economy is ok, she's likely to win.
sycasey
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BearGoggles;842489202 said:

A lot will depend on if the republicans nominate a quality candidate


Well, that's the trouble for them.
BearGoggles
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sycasey;842488976 said:

This is also how I see it. At one time you could find reasonable disagreement between parties, but lately the Republican Party has become the party of inflexible ideologues. A party that basically exists only to grind government to a halt, not to operate it sensibly. (NOTE: Here I am not talking about rank-and-file voters, but rather the party leadership who controls message and strategy. Though I do think that some of those who continue to vote Republican should try to open their eyes about what their party has become.)


Are you familiar with Harry Reid? He basically shut down the senate for 6 years by prohibiting amendments to bills and preventing votes. When McConnell took over, he restored regular order which afforded the minority dems the rights (mostly procedural) Reid had denied republicans.

There are obstructionists on both sides. And I assure you, there are ideologically inflexible dems too. People tend to see the party the agree with as reasonable and the party they disagree with as obstructionist.
dimitrig
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goldenokiebear;842488858 said:

Increased coal burning as "green" against nuclear, that's priceless.


It is. France is in the same predicament. LOL.
BearGoggles
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dajo9;842489041 said:

What it means to be a fiscal conservative is a mystery to me. The most conservative people in office during my lifetime have been the most reckless fiscally. Just look at what is going on in Kansas right now.

I am strongly fiscally responsible. I believe in modest debt (some Federal debt is good for the capital markets) and taxing to pay for what we want. Defense, education, infrastructure, social security, healthcare. Clinton, Bush Sr, and Obama have been very responsible. Reagan and GWB were very reckless. Ask a conservative which of those they dislike the most.


You do realize Obama has run the largest deficits in history (with partial credit to GWB for 2009) with no end in sight ($500B deficits projected going forward)? Not sure how responsible that is.

I would define fiscally responsible as spending what you have. By that standard, only Clinton qualifies, though he had the lucky fortune of presiding over the peace cold war dividend, inheriting a recovering economy and presiding over the tech bubble (which he had nothing to do with). Partial credit to Clinton for having decent economic policies that didn't mess those things up and not going crazy in spending the surplus (though the Gingrich led republican congress probably wouldn't have let him).

GWB was not a fiscal conservative. He enacted Medicare Part D (prescriptions) and fought two wars "off the books". Absolutely horrible on that front and many conservatives said so at the time (myself included).

The problem is that no politician - of either party - wants to make the hard choices necessary to (nearly) balance the budget. That would require true leadership and telling voters that either taxes need to go or spending cut. The will only do that when we can no longer borrow/service our debt (arguably the same thing), at which point is will be too late.
sycasey
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BearGoggles;842489212 said:

There are obstructionists on both sides. And I assure you, there are ideologically inflexible dems too. People tend to see the party the agree with as reasonable and the party they disagree with as obstructionist.


The current Congress is historically obstructionist. The numbers back that up.
GivemTheAxe
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BearGoggles;842489225 said:

You do realize Obama has run the largest deficits in history (with partial credit to GWB for 2009) with no end in sight ($500B deficits projected going forward)? Not sure how responsible that is.

I would define fiscally responsible as spending what you have. By that standard, only Clinton qualifies, though he had the lucky fortune of presiding over the peace cold war dividend, inheriting a recovering economy and presiding over the tech bubble (which he had nothing to do with). Partial credit to Clinton for having decent economic policies that didn't mess those things up and not going crazy in spending the surplus (though the Gingrich led republican congress probably wouldn't have let him).

GWB was not a fiscal conservative. He enacted Medicare Part D (prescriptions) and fought two wars "off the books". Absolutely horrible on that front and many conservatives said so at the time (myself included).

The problem is that no politician - of either party - wants to make the hard choices necessary to (nearly) balance the budget. That would require true leadership and telling voters that either taxes need to go or spending cut. The will only do that when we can no longer borrow/service our debt (arguably the same thing), at which point is will be too late.


You do realize that Prez Obama had to deal with the most severe recession since the Great Depression which had a lot to do with the deficits.
He faced a more difficult task than Sonny did taking over for Tedford. (Imagine my inserting a Cal football reference on this Global Warming and Politics Board. Mea culpa. It won't happen again. Please don't ban me from this board.)
Vandalus
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sycasey;842489232 said:

The current Congress is historically obstructionist. The numbers back that up.


They are also the do nothing congress.

dajo9
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BearGoggles;842489225 said:

You do realize Obama has run the largest deficits in history (with partial credit to GWB for 2009) with no end in sight ($500B deficits projected going forward)? Not sure how responsible that is.

I would define fiscally responsible as spending what you have. By that standard, only Clinton qualifies, though he had the lucky fortune of presiding over the peace cold war dividend, inheriting a recovering economy and presiding over the tech bubble (which he had nothing to do with). Partial credit to Clinton for having decent economic policies that didn't mess those things up and not going crazy in spending the surplus (though the Gingrich led republican congress probably wouldn't have let him).

GWB was not a fiscal conservative. He enacted Medicare Part D (prescriptions) and fought two wars "off the books". Absolutely horrible on that front and many conservatives said so at the time (myself included).

The problem is that no politician - of either party - wants to make the hard choices necessary to (nearly) balance the budget. That would require true leadership and telling voters that either taxes need to go or spending cut. The will only do that when we can no longer borrow/service our debt (arguably the same thing), at which point is will be too late.


Obama inherited a deficit of $1.3 trillion. It is now down to $0.5 trillion dollars, which sounds scary big if you don't know your federal budget numbers but is really 2.6% of gdp, which is about what you want it to be. A healthy treasury market with adequate supply is good for the capital markets.

My biggest complaint about Obama is that he focused too much on deficit reduction during the recession when he should have spent more on a temporary basis to increase jobs. Now that the recession is over the deficit is right where it should be.

In regards to Clinton's surplus, Al Gore was right. We should have put money aside for future social security and Medicare payments. But we all know how that turned out..
jyamada
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GB54;842489154 said:

Republicans should be jumping with joy if Clinton wins. They will control both houses and last time this happened with a Clinton President they got a balanced budget, welfare reform, tax cuts, repeal of Glass Steagall, Defense of Marriage Act and a war on crime. Clinton was the best Republican President since Reagan. Hillary will be the second best plus she'll bust balls all over the Middle East


Let's not confuse our right wing brothers with facts, GB!
68great
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GB54;842489154 said:

Republicans should be jumping with joy if Clinton wins. They will control both houses and last time this happened with a Clinton President they got a balanced budget, welfare reform, tax cuts, repeal of Glass Steagall, Defense of Marriage Act and a war on crime. Clinton was the best Republican President since Reagan. Hillary will be the second best plus she'll bust balls all over the Middle East


I wouldn't crow over the repeal of Glass Steagall since that was a big factor behind the Great Recession.
Sure let's have some more of that.
GB54
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68great;842489425 said:

I wouldn't crow over the repeal of Glass Steagall since that was a big factor behind the Great Recession.
Sure let's have some more of that.


Hey, those are Senator Clinton's constituents!
BearGoggles
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sycasey;842489232 said:

The current Congress is historically obstructionist. The numbers back that up.


I suspect your comment was directed at the prior congress in which Harry Reid was the Senate Majority Leader. The numbers back up the fact that the prior congress was historically obstructionist. The current congress - the 114th - was sworn in 4 months ago.

In the current congress, with republicans in control of the Senate and house and the restoration of regular order (which provides the dems their historical minority rights), there have already been more bipartisan action than the prior congress. Off the top of my head, since the republicans gained control of both houses, there has been bipartisan compromises on the budget, debt ceiling, keystone (had modest dem support), the Iran nuclear agreement, cybersecurity, human trafficking, and a permanent fix to the medicare doctor payment problem. They have also restored the committee budgeting process which again affords minority party input and produces a bipartisan budget. Are there still disagreements, some of which will not be bridged? Of course. Ted Cruz will do his thing, just like there are dems who will take extreme/obstructionist positions on union and abortion issues.

All of that is in stark contrast to when Harry Reid ran the senate. Again, there are obstructionists on BOTH sides.

I would also point out that, historically, presidents have taken a role in proposing/crafting litigation that has bipartisan congressional support. President Obama has completely abdicated that role and let Reid and Pelosi pursue a partisan agenda (again, with Reid denying republicans the ability to amend bills or bring bills to a vote). That was their prerogative, but it was no surprise the republicans opposed. The dems forced through a series of laws - Obamacare comes to mind - that did not have popular support. Even if you support the policy behind laws, it should come as no surprise that politicians elected on a platform against those laws will in fact obstruct them.
sycasey
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BearGoggles;842489525 said:

I suspect your comment was directed at the prior congress in which Harry Reid was the Senate Majority Leader. The numbers back up the fact that the prior congress was historically obstructionist. The current congress - the 114th - was sworn in 4 months ago.

In the current congress, with republicans in control of the Senate and house and the restoration of regular order (which provides the dems their historical minority rights), there have already been more bipartisan action than the prior congress. Off the top of my head, since the republicans gained control of both houses, there has been bipartisan compromises on the budget, debt ceiling, keystone (had modest dem support), the Iran nuclear agreement, cybersecurity, human trafficking, and a permanent fix to the medicare doctor payment problem. They have also restored the committee budgeting process which again affords minority party input and produces a bipartisan budget. Are there still disagreements, some of which will not be bridged? Of course. Ted Cruz will do his thing, just like there are dems who will take extreme/obstructionist positions on union and abortion issues.

All of that is in stark contrast to when Harry Reid ran the senate. Again, there are obstructionists on BOTH sides.

I would also point out that, historically, presidents have taken a role in proposing/crafting litigation that has bipartisan congressional support. President Obama has completely abdicated that role and let Reid and Pelosi pursue a partisan agenda (again, with Reid denying republicans the ability to amend bills or bring bills to a vote). That was their prerogative, but it was no surprise the republicans opposed. The dems forced through a series of laws - Obamacare comes to mind - that did not have popular support. Even if you support the policy behind laws, it should come as no surprise that politicians elected on a platform against those laws will in fact obstruct them.


So you are accusing a DEMOCRAT of being obstructionist when there is a Democratic President whose agenda he would prefer to serve. That's an interesting way to look at things.
concordtom
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Big C_Cal;842850746 said:

After Al Gore invented the Internet and the "lock box", IIRC, he flew around on a chartered jet to lecture people about the environment. If Shocky takes commercial flights, well, the plane probably would've flown anyway, so no harm done.

Yeah, we all know that climate science stuff is absurd. As proof, I'm looking out my window in between sentences. It's about 72 degrees (East Bay), clear skies, everything looks great (and I challenge any bleeding-heart liberals to refute this).


So, are you telling me that this isn't happening?





I think the scientists have come up with ample DATA to tell us that there IS a warmer planet these days.
Do you dispute?
GB54
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concordtom;842850777 said:

So, are you telling me that this isn't happening?





I think the scientists have come up with ample DATA to tell us that there IS a warmer planet these days.
Do you dispute?


FAKE Scientists. SAD.
NVBear78
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concordtom;842850777 said:

So, are you telling me that this isn't happening?





I think the scientists have come up with ample DATA to tell us that there IS a warmer planet these days.
Do you dispute?


No, he is saying man didn't cause it because the earth's temperature, the earth's weather and the earth's glaciers have always fluctuated.

And more importantly the actions by the UN, the Paris Acord etc amount to a huge "tax" on the world economy with absolutely zero effect on the climate. Like peeing in the ocean.

The money wasted could be spent a million better ways.
NYCGOBEARS
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NVBear78;842850799 said:

No, he is saying man didn't cause it because the earth's temperature, the earth's weather and the earth's glaciers have always fluctuated.



What used to take tens of thousands of years, mankind has done in a hundred. God did not create the earth in seven days either.
dajo9
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NVBear78;842850799 said:

No, he is saying man didn't cause it because the earth's temperature, the earth's weather and the earth's glaciers have always fluctuated.

And more importantly the actions by the UN, the Paris Acord etc amount to a huge "tax" on the world economy with absolutely zero effect on the climate. Like peeing in the ocean.

The money wasted could be spent a million better ways.


Sad to see so many Americans just wave the white flag when confronted with a problem. Can't do anything about climate. Can't do anything about healthcare. Can't do anything about wealth inequality. Our grandparents would be embarrassed of us.
NYCGOBEARS
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dajo9;842850802 said:

Our grandparents would be embarrassed of us.

Barry Goldwater would be called a snowflake today.
chazzed
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dajo9;842850802 said:

Sad to see so many Americans just wave the white flag when confronted with a problem. Can't do anything about climate. Can't do anything about healthcare. Can't do anything about wealth inequality. Our grandparents would be embarrassed of us.


...and our grandchildren will be up a creek because of our recklessness.
NVBear78
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dajo9;842850802 said:

Sad to see so many Americans just wave the white flag when confronted with a problem. Can't do anything about climate. Can't do anything about healthcare. Can't do anything about wealth inequality. Our grandparents would be embarrassed of us.


The really comical thing about this response is that the biggest public proponents of alleged "human caused climate change", i.e. Obama, Al Gore and Leonardo De Caprio are guys with the greatest use of private jets and the largest carbon footprints. If this is real why do they act as they do...

ps. Lots we can and should do about all the things you noted we just happen to have different opinions as to what that should be...
dajo9
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NVBear78;842850808 said:

The really comical thing about this response is that the biggest public proponents of alleged "human caused climate change", i.e. Obama, Al Gore and Leonardo De Caprio are guys with the greatest use of private jets and the largest carbon footprints. If this is real why do they act as they do...

ps. Lots we can and should do about all the things you noted we just happen to have different opinions as to what that should be...


Your attempts at petty takedowns of climate activists expose your weakness on the real discussion
ducky23
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NVBear78;842850808 said:

The really comical thing about this response is that the biggest public proponents of alleged "human caused climate change", i.e. Obama, Al Gore and Leonardo De Caprio are guys with the greatest use of private jets and the largest carbon footprints. If this is real why do they act as they do...

ps. Lots we can and should do about all the things you noted we just happen to have different opinions as to what that should be...


This could be a really dumb questions (since I have no knowledge of the subject at all) but how exactly would Obama be able to fly coach?

How would the security work? Where would the secret service sit? I guess it wouldn't cause a semi commotion if Obama were to walk thru an airport?

All the effort it would take Obama to fly commercial, it would probably be more green to just fly private.
 
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