Didn't the ending of Real Genius also receive heavy criticism from Val Kilmer's rabid fan base? Maybe that's the joke??!!

ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

---

First off, the ending to some kind of wonderful is probably my favorite ending of all time (the end to pretty in pink isn't bad either - omd still believes "if you leave" ruined their careers, but it's still a f'ing great song)

Second, real genius isn't even a John Hughes movie. So I'm not sure whether this twitter guy is trying to be ironic or is just a moron (btw real genius - awesome ending as well).

---

You look good wearing my future.

I actually loved everything about the movie (especially the soundtrack) other than the ending. So, he passes on his dream of going to art school and his tomboy best friend suddenly likes jewelry more than seeing her best friend chase his dreams?

calbear93 said:

---

ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

---

First off, the ending to some kind of wonderful is probably my favorite ending of all time (the end to pretty in pink isn't bad either - omd still believes "if you leave" ruined their careers, but it's still a f'ing great song)

Second, real genius isn't even a John Hughes movie. So I'm not sure whether this twitter guy is trying to be ironic or is just a moron (btw real genius - awesome ending as well).

---

You look good wearing my future. I actually loved everything about the movie (especially the soundtrack) but didn't like the ending. So, he passes on his dream of going to art school so that a tomboy suddenly likes jewelry instead of wanting her best friend to chase his dreams?

---

I mean sure. But I am clearly biased, as Watts was and always will be my dream girl (i tell my wife this all the time). plus, cant help falling in love by lick the tins playing during the end credits is just so awesome.

i'm not sure if john hughes movies are awesome because he's a good writer or just cause he has the uncanny ability to pick amazing music to put in his movies.

ducky23 said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

ducky23 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

---

First off, the ending to some kind of wonderful is probably my favorite ending of all time (the end to pretty in pink isn't bad either - omd still believes "if you leave" ruined their careers, but it's still a f'ing great song)

Second, real genius isn't even a John Hughes movie. So I'm not sure whether this twitter guy is trying to be ironic or is just a moron (btw real genius - awesome ending as well).

---

You look good wearing my future. I actually loved everything about the movie (especially the soundtrack) but didn't like the ending. So, he passes on his dream of going to art school so that a tomboy suddenly likes jewelry instead of wanting her best friend to chase his dreams?

---

I mean sure. But I am clearly biased, as Watts was and always will be my dream girl (i tell my wife this all the time). plus, cant help falling in love by lick the tins playing during the end credits is just so awesome.

i'm not sure if john hughes movies are awesome because he's a good writer or just cause he has the uncanny ability to pick amazing music to put in his movies.

---

That was an awesome cover of Can't Help Falling in Love. As a teenage boy watching that kissing scene in the garage, I know I wished I had a tomboy friend like Watts.

This guy has a more sensible 6-episode final season in this re-write proposal.

Centered around giving the NK a larger, more significant arc that doesn't end in ep 3

GBear4Life said:

---

This guy has a more sensible 6-episode final season in this re-write proposal.

Centered around giving the NK a larger, more significant arc that doesn't end in ep 3

---

GBear4Life said:

---

This guy has a more sensible 6-episode final season in this re-write proposal.

Centered around giving the NK a larger, more significant arc that doesn't end in ep 3

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

sycasey said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

This guy has a more sensible 6-episode final season in this re-write proposal.

Centered around giving the NK a larger, more significant arc that doesn't end in ep 3

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

---

Agree. I read the Lord of the Rings trilogy, but only saw the last movie. All I can remember thinking by the end of the flick was, Angelic-Looking = Good Guys whereas Ugly = Bad Guys... got it.

Dany is about as angelic-looking as one can possibly get.

sycasey said:

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

---

How is what Martin wanted relevant to what many viewers think was an awful final season? The whole point is that what he wanted was stupid and poorly executed by the show runners. That YouTuber offered a final season that in his view did justice to the previous 7 seasons.

You disagree. That's cool.

GBear4Life said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

---

How is what Martin wanted relevant to what many viewers think was an awful final season? The whole point is that what he wanted was stupid and poorly executed by the show runners. That YouTuber offered a final season that in his view did justice to the previous 7 seasons.

You disagree. That's cool.

---

Because he's the artist who originally wrote this story and had an idea in mind for what he wanted to say with it? Seems like this is relevant information for how the story "should" end.

Also, frankly, his idea for Arya is terrible.

sycasey said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

---

How is what Martin wanted relevant to what many viewers think was an awful final season? The whole point is that what he wanted was stupid and poorly executed by the show runners. That YouTuber offered a final season that in his view did justice to the previous 7 seasons.

You disagree. That's cool.

---

Because he's the artist who originally wrote this story and had an idea in mind for what he wanted to say with it? Seems like this is relevant information for how the story "should" end.

Also, frankly, his idea for Arya is terrible.

---

Video guy also seems to be confusing dragon glass with Valarian steel, but whatever.

Honestly I also was less than thrilled with the conclusion of the Jamie story arc the more I thought about it, but I'm not inclined to devour a 12 course meal and several bottles of excellent wine and then tell the chef it was all ruined because the dessert souffl wasn't quite fluffy enough. You have to evaluate the entire experience and I for one felt I got the full value of my entertainment dollar. Probably one of the most if not the most ambitious entertainment projects ever undertaken. All I can say is my compliments to the chef.

sycasey said:

---

GBear4Life said:

---

This guy has a more sensible 6-episode final season in this re-write proposal.

Centered around giving the NK a larger, more significant arc that doesn't end in ep 3

---

I'm sorry, but doesn't any attempt to retrofit the GoT story into the Lord of the Rings template kind of miss the point of what George RR Martin was trying to do? He's specifically stated that he wanted to subvert the typical heroic fantasy story, to go against the classic archetypes of Tolkien. Defeating the White Walkers early and turning Dany (not Cersei) into the actual final villain of the story after a conspicuous fall from grace seems way more in line with what Martin wanted to do.

I do think there were better ways to structure this final season, but this guy seems to miss the whole point of the Martin story.

---

I completely agree with sycasey. It seems like the YouTube dude's main complaint is that the last season didn't fit in neatly with his preconceived formulaic structure. At some point he even put up some ridiculous graph to explain why you can't kill the knight king in season 3 (in my opinion, the problem wasn't killing the night king early, it was that killing the night king apparently had no point)

I have several complaints about the last season, but straying from formula is definitely not one of them. It does seem like he spends the entire video trying to fit his new plot into some lord of the rings structure (which is sad and as sycasey said, is completely opposite from the what the author intended to do with his story)

One thing I did like from his "re-write" was bran going back into the past to find clues to beat the knight king. This is a rather intelligent way of bringing back some of the immense detail from past seasons and bringing that detail back to life. That was one of my problems with the last season. There was just so much detail in the past seasons, but most of it is ignored in the final season. Like the azor ahai prophecy is a pretty big deal in previous episodes. But what? That's all bull***** What was the point of all that?

Martin has created such an amazing world full of such detail and richness. And in my opinion, it went all to waste in the final season. After watching the (not so educational documentary on hbo) it seems like they were too preoccupied with building huge set pieces while forgetting the little things that made the first few seasons great.

I almost feel like once GOT started getting a huge budget, it's a little like adding KD to the warriors (obviously this analogy isn't perfect - as the dubs are still better with KD).

But the point is the same. When they didn't have gobs of money, they had to entertain their audience by concentrating on the story. It seems like once they had an unlimited budget, they could use that money as a crutch and entertain people just with amazing looking set pieces and big battle scenes and millions of extras. But they kinda forgot what made GOT amazing in the first place.

What are your thoughts on this:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/26/18637091/game-of-thrones-targaryen-restoration-daenerys

Isn't the big, underlying problem that GRRM has not added to the story in book form since 2011, instead writing prequels and other stuff? When the HBO series started they had every reason to expect the novels to have been written by the time they got there.

Whatever ending was in the books would be accepted as "gospel."

However, since we all get to opine now, I do think the Night King/Winter is Coming threat should have continued longer with most of Westeros taken and maybe even the Night King on the Iron Throne (or at least find out what he wants) There should have been a lot more treachery and infighting, among the living (both sides) with surprising turns.

Agents of SHIELD and Game Of Thrones were tied on my list of favorite shows. SHIELD has moved ahead. They wrote the last ep of season 5 as the series finale for SHIELD & it was very satisfying for the fans. Then they decided to add seasons 6 & 7, woohoo.

Man, I gave up on SHIELD years ago. It's actually good now?

ducky23 said:

---

I completely agree with sycasey. It seems like the YouTube dude's main complaint is that the last season didn't fit in neatly with his preconceived formulaic structure. At some point he even put up some ridiculous graph to explain why you can't kill the knight king in season 3

---

Yup! I was trying to give the guy a chance until that graph popped up, and then I said, "Uh oh." There are plenty of legit criticisms of the show, but that ain't it chief.

ducky23 said:

---

But the point is the same. When they didn't have gobs of money, they had to entertain their audience by concentrating on the story. It seems like once they had an unlimited budget, they could use that money as a crutch and entertain people just with amazing looking set pieces and big battle scenes and millions of extras. But they kinda forgot what made GOT amazing in the first place.

---

The result kind of looks like that, but I don't think it's about budget. I think it's mostly because there were no more books to adapt, so as TV writers without an existing text to guide them they reverted to doing things that are more visually arresting and spectacular.

I have gone back and started watching from Season 1 again, and yeah, it's very different. In those early episodes it was more of a chamber drama, like Pride & Prejudice or Howard's End or something. Obviously there were more instances of violence and nudity than you'd find in one of those movies, but it was mostly people sitting in rooms, discussing relationships and politics. The later seasons move way faster and have less time for chit-chat.

I don't necessarily think this is bad in and of itself, but I get that the early seasons set an expectation for pacing and detail that wasn't met by the later ones.

ducky23 said:

---

I completely agree with sycasey. It seems like the YouTube dude's main complaint is that the last season didn't fit in neatly with his preconceived formulaic structure. At some point he even put up some ridiculous graph to explain why you can't kill the knight king in season 3 (in my opinion, the problem wasn't killing the night king early, it was that killing the night king apparently had no point)

I have several complaints about the last season, but straying from formula is definitely not one of them. It does seem like he spends the entire video trying to fit his new plot into some lord of the rings structure (which is sad and as sycasey said, is completely opposite from the what the author intended to do with his story)

One thing I did like from his "re-write" was bran going back into the past to find clues to beat the knight king. This is a rather intelligent way of bringing back some of the immense detail from past seasons and bringing that detail back to life. That was one of my problems with the last season. There was just so much detail in the past seasons, but most of it is ignored in the final season. Like the azor ahai prophecy is a pretty big deal in previous episodes. But what? That's all bull***** What was the point of all that?

Martin has created such an amazing world full of such detail and richness. And in my opinion, it went all to waste in the final season. After watching the (not so educational documentary on hbo) it seems like they were too preoccupied with building huge set pieces while forgetting the little things that made the first few seasons great.

I almost feel like once GOT started getting a huge budget, it's a little like adding KD to the warriors (obviously this analogy isn't perfect - as the dubs are still better with KD).

But the point is the same. When they didn't have gobs of money, they had to entertain their audience by concentrating on the story. It seems like once they had an unlimited budget, they could use that money as a crutch and entertain people just with amazing looking set pieces and big battle scenes and millions of extras. But they kinda forgot what made GOT amazing in the first place.

---

Let me qualify my response by saying that everyone is entitled to enjoy the show in their own ways, and no one should feel as if their enjoyment is not valid.

The one aspect I enjoyed about the video was that he was able to make sense of the prior 7 seasons of development within the limitations of the shortened season.

I would be happy with the current ending if the show had dedicated enough episodes and time to turn Dany into a villain after seven seasons of making her a hero.

Therefore, I am not disappointed with the ending in itself. I am disappointed with lack of development in getting from end of Season 7 to the end of Season 8. If they were so set on ending the show the way they did, they should not have dedicated so little time to get from Season 7 to the ending. I am ultimately disappointed with the complete disregard for all of the layers of complexity from seasons 1-6 just so that they can move on to other projects while being faithful to how Martin wanted to end the show.

The one thing I did not like about the video was having Arya wear Jamie's face. That was superfluous and inconsistent.

I am supportive and quite envious of those who enjoyed this season. I am one of those who feel as if my prior seven seasons of investment was not rewarded.

sycasey said:

---

Man, I gave up on SHIELD years ago. It's actually good now?

---

It's the most watched Marvel show (including the Netflix shows) & very popular world wide. It has smart writing and a hard core fan base One of the characters has achieved Avengers level powers.. If you're looking for a palate cleanser after GOT, I'd suggest jumping into season 6 & give it a look. Here's the trailer :

BGolden said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Man, I gave up on SHIELD years ago. It's actually good now?

---

It's the most watched Marvel show (including the Netflix shows) & very popular world wide. It has smart writing and a hard core fan base One of the characters has achieved Avengers level powers.. If you're looking for a palate cleanser after GOT, I'd suggest jumping into season 6 & give it a look. Here's the trailer :

---

Cool, may have to catch up on the stream and see if I can get back into the live S6, I stopped watching after the inhumans storyline, mainly due to time and moving on to other shows.

Of course it was GRRM's idea!

https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/30/game-of-thrones-bran-george-r-r-martin/

okaydo said:

---

Of course it was GRRM's idea!

https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/30/game-of-thrones-bran-george-r-r-martin/

---

I thought this was known. Martin is not even following his own advice.

Okaydo I hope you can find some Cal connections to justify making a Deadwood movie OT thread. I'll probably be the only participant but then it would just be like a basketball game day thread.

Most people aren't against KingBran - but just the path that got us here was so "?!huh!?" noomg***bbqmindblown but in a confused this does not make sense sense.

okaydo said:

---

Of course it was GRRM's idea!

https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/30/game-of-thrones-bran-george-r-r-martin/

---

Yeah, I suspect the final plot outcomes for the major characters were pretty much from GRRM. The route to get there, maybe not.

KenBurnski said:

---

Okaydo I hope you can find some Cal connections to justify making a Deadwood movie OT thread. I'll probably be the only participant but then it would just be like a basketball game day thread.

---

I have found a "Cal" connection. (Olyphant met his wife at USC, but he mentioned that he has kids at Cal Poly and UCSB in one of the many interviews he did this week.)

Well played as usual.

KenBurnski said:

---

Okaydo I hope you can find some Cal connections to justify making a Deadwood movie OT thread. I'll probably be the only participant but then it would just be like a basketball game day thread.

---

Also, obviously...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hbos-deadwood-the-movie-is-the-perfect-end-to-televisions-best-show

A few posts upthread, I posted a couple images from Jamie Lannister and Melisandre's new movie Domino, out today, directed by Brian De Palma (it is apparently terrible.)

Which reminds me:

New York Magazine's Vulture recently listed the 50 best spy movies of all time, and I was struck that No. 2 was the 2006 movie Black Book, starring Melisandre in the lead role as a spy who infiltrates the Nazis, with a brief cameo by (the second) Daario Naharis. That's them pictured below.

https://www.vulture.com/article/best-spy-movies-ever.html

If you haven't seen Black Book already, I urge you to check it out. It's from Basic Instinct, Total Recall, RoboCop and Starship Troopers director Paul Verhoeven.

What is amazing about the movie is Milch wrote the movie's script AFTER being diagnosed with Alzheimers.

MoragaBear said:

---

I got sidetracked a couple seasons ago when 50% of the time, my DISH dvr would only record the last minute of the show and I couldn't find it available anywhere else since it had been over 5 weeks since the episode aired so I eventually gave up watching.

Are past episodes available on Dish On Demand, Netflix or Hulu now?

---

SHIELD season 1 might be available on Amazon or Hulu.
I suspect a lot of Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, Fox & Disney content might be on streaming hold until Disney+ premieres in November.

Even Thanos must bend the knee to Darth Mouse.

I bailed on Agents of SHIELD about three seasons in because I just found the characters too dull and the visual style super-bland. Has it improved on those elements since?