Somebody is standing in deep yogurt.

alarsuel said:

---

Matz Stockman can't be the secret name everyone is excited about, can it? Does that indicate the coaching staff doesn't expect "Secret Transfer X"?

---

No, he's not the guy. As to what the staff's expectation is, I don't know but they have expected other guys to come that haven't, so what they are thinking doesn't seem all that important.

Yogi Bear said:

---

alarsuel said:

---

Matz Stockman can't be the secret name everyone is excited about, can it? Does that indicate the coaching staff doesn't expect "Secret Transfer X"?

---

No, he's not the guy. As to what the staff's expectation is, I don't know but they have expected other guys to come that haven't, so what they are thinking doesn't seem all that important.

---

It would be pretty politically incorrect if we stacked our roster for next year with better talent than San Francisco, so it makes sense to me.

Dear Socal: ?????????

UrsaMajor said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

dear uc berk grad: can you not walk and chew gum at the same time??

---

FYI, the original LBJ quote was "fart and chew gum at the same time."

---

Quote:

---

To think I just read this thread to find out the status of the purported grad transfer. That was one tough read.

---

And I'm shocked nobody has yet once screamed "OT!"
This was one of the best diversions yet (not really, cause nobody yet mentioned Trump - ooops.)

can travis austin make a 3

calgo430 said:

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can travis austin make a 3

---

Don't know....but Paris Austin can....not a steady diet of 3's but he has to be respected...What I mean is, they can't back off him like they did against Sam Singer....

bearmanpg said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

can travis austin make a 3

---

Don't know....but Paris Austin can....not a steady diet of 3's but he has to be respected...What I mean is, they can't back off him like they did against Sam Singer....

---

Hey, all I know is, last time I was on Travis Air Force Base, I thought I was in Paris. Easy to confuse the two!

Big C said:

---

bearmanpg said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

can travis austin make a 3

---

Don't know....but Paris Austin can....not a steady diet of 3's but he has to be respected...What I mean is, they can't back off him like they did against Sam Singer....

---

Hey, all I know is, last time I was on Travis Air Force Base, I thought I was in Paris. Easy to confuse the two!

---

I guess you meant the Paris airport, the name of which I have forgotten.

The other guy with two first/last names, Reid Travis(?) just left town, and now we have another one arriving, Paris Austin (?). I hope I got the names right.

bearmanpg said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

can travis austin make a 3

---

Don't know....but Paris Austin can....not a steady diet of 3's but he has to be respected...What I mean is, they can't back off him like they did against Sam Singer....

---

The numbers are not promising.

Career 3P%:

Sam Singer: 27.5%

Paris Austin: 23.2%

In his last season at Boise, Austin shot threes at 21.2%

This is pretty abysmal. Maybe Austin has greatly improved in his year with the Cal coaches or over the summer, but I think most teams will not play him tight up in his face beyond the three point line, until he proves them different.

Personally, I could care less if he makes any threes. What I want to see is if he can make some assists, finish at the basket, and play some defense on the opposing PG. And I want to see Wyking install an offense which can give Austin room to operate, and get players moving without the ball to get open for his passes.

SFCityBear said:

---

bearmanpg said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

can travis austin make a 3

---

Don't know....but Paris Austin can....not a steady diet of 3's but he has to be respected...What I mean is, they can't back off him like they did against Sam Singer....

---

The numbers are not promising.

Career 3P%:

Sam Singer: 27.5%

Paris Austin: 23.2%

In his last season at Boise, Austin shot threes at 21.2%

This is pretty abysmal. Maybe Austin has greatly improved in his year with the Cal coaches or over the summer, but I think most teams will not play him tight up in his face beyond the three point line, until he proves them different.

Personally, I could care less if he makes any threes. What I want to see is if he can make some assists, finish at the basket, and play some defense on the opposing PG. And I want to see Wyking install an offense which can give Austin room to operate, and get players moving without the ball to get open for his passes.

Don't you think that a 3-point threat opens up the passing lanes?

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

SFCityBear said:

---

Personally, I could care less if he makes any threes.

---

I want every perimeter player to be able to shoot threes at a decent rate. Bigs, I don't care. I want them near the hoop to rebound the ball.

Yogi Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

Personally, I could care less if he makes any threes.

---

I want every perimeter player to be able to shoot threes at a decent rate. Bigs, I don't care. I want them near the hoop to rebound the ball.

---

That means you have to have serviceable bigs. So far we are looking at a frosh center who will have limited playing time, a 6'8 frosh Kelly, who looks athletic, but rough, and another 6'8" soph who played limited time on a horrible team last year, and averaged 1.5 points and 1.6 rebounds. So this team better have wings and guards draining shots, because they likely are not getting any meaningful production inside.

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

So much in life is a question of degree

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

mikecohen said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

---

Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

SFCityBear said:

---

mikecohen said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

---

Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

---

Yeah, well, Oscar says a lot of things.

I saw tBig O and the Bearcats play many nationally televized games on Saturdays. He and Jerry West (uWestVa) were something to behold.

SFCityBear said:

---

mikecohen said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

---

Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

---

I agree that assists are awarded differently than in "O"s day; today taking a dribble or 2 as long as they aren't moves to evade a defender usually still gets called an assist. We can debate whether or not it should be.

I'm pretty sure even Robertson would get an assist on a fast break if he made a great pass and the shooter took one step to jump...

GMP said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

mikecohen said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

---

Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

---

Yeah, well, Oscar says a lot of things.

---

What's that supposed to mean?

joe amos yaks said:

---

I saw tBig O and the Bearcats play many nationally televized games on Saturdays. He and Jerry West (uWestVa) were something to behold.

---

I too really looked forward to watching those Bearcat games on Saturdays. TV was just beginning to telecast games, and the Missouri Valley Conference was my first glimpse of players and teams from outside the Bay Area during the regular season. Oscar was an incredible player. Bradley and Drake were two of Cincinnati's opponents in a strong conference. I don't think I saw Jerry West on TV until the NCAA Final in 1959. We were lucky to have Bill Russell and KC Jones in the Bay Area so we could see them in person. Their games in the NCAA were not televised out here. And Cal played a game with Kansas and Wilt Chamberlain at Harmon so we could see him in person. The only time I got to see film of other players from the rest of the country was at the Saturday matinee at the Haight Theatre, where amongst the cartoons and the movies, the Warner-Pathe Newsreel sometimes had a 10 second clips of Tom Gola, Robin Freeman, or Bevo Francis (who scored 100 points in a game). All that for a 10 cent ticket. As soon as we bought a TV, I quit going to the Saturday matinees, and stayed home to watch Oscar work his magic in the Bearcat games.

UrsaMajor said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

mikecohen said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

south bender said:

---

SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

---

Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

---

In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

---

But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

---

Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

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I agree that assists are awarded differently than in "O"s day; today taking a dribble or 2 as long as they aren't moves to evade a defender usually still gets called an assist. We can debate whether or not it should be.

I'm pretty sure even Robertson would get an assist on a fast break if he made a great pass and the shooter took one step to jump...

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I prefer easily understandable and easy to apply rules, without so much subjectivity involved. How does the statistician know why a player took a dribble? Maybe he had to dribble or take a step because he did not get a good pass from the passer. Maybe he took a dribble or a step to regain control or rhythm. Or to take a dribble or step to give him a higher leap for a dunk?

When the shot is a perimeter shot, how do you judge that one? I'm a traditionalist, so I don't believe an assist should ever be given for passing to a player for a three, because a three is a much lower percentage shot. The three is much more about the shooter than the pass, and depends much more on the skill of the shooter than the skill of the passer. But they give assists for threes now, so if the shooter takes a dribble, how do you determine why he took the dribble? I've seen shooters take a dribble to evade a defender, but I have seen them bounce the ball to get in rhythm, or to adjust for an inaccurate pass. Or maybe it is just a habit.

The game has changed to hand out more participation awards, and liberalizing of the criteria for what is an assist is just another of those. It is one more device to make it impossible to honestly compare the achievements of past players with present ones, statistically.

I do remember Robin Freeman of Ohio State. God never sculpted a more pure shooter. I refuse to apologize if I've 'offended" any atheists or agnostics on this site. As Judge Jeannine is fond of saying, " put on your big boy pants and deal with such a harsh, unforgiving world. I will, however, weep with you as I seem to have an overabundance of tissues. Robin came to play against Cal on both Friday and Saturday nights. he scored 23 in the first game on seven field goals and nine free throws. Thge following night, he poured in 34 points. Remember, in those halcyon days there was njo shot-clock and no three point shot. Robin had at least two of his fingers sliced off in a bizarre accident and that was the end of his pure jump-shooting. I don't believe Robin was taller than 5'10.

The "split-finger" works in baseball and billiards, not in hoops.

Bradleyu 1959-62 -- w/ Chet Walker:

• 1959-60 -- 27-2
• 1960-61 -- 21-5
• 1961-62 -- 21-7

uCin 1957-60 -- w/ tBig O:

• 1957-58 -- 25-3
• 1958-59 -- 26-4
• 1959-60 -- 28-2

uCin joined the MVC in 1957.

TBradley Braves finished second to tSt Louie Billikens (w/ Bob Ferry) with a 22-7 record in 1956-57.

Bradleyu was putting up impressive winning records while always finishing #2 in the MVC year after year.

SFCityBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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mikecohen said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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south bender said:

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SFCB,

You have to care if he can make some threes with enough accuracy so as to spread the court. If he cannot, the defense can sag and clog things for the entire offense.

Curry's range is a significant factor that makes him, arguably, the most important offensive player in the NBA.

Austin does not have to be Curry--who is?--but without posing any danger for the defense from the college 3, he will have limited success at Cal.

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Tyrone Wallace couldn't make many threes (career 29.2%), and neither could Jaylen Brown (at Cal, 29.4%), and they found ways to get inside and score or dish if they chose to pass. Even a player with all the defects of a Don Coleman, who could barely make a three to save his life (career 23.6%), was able to penetrate easily and find open spaces from which to shoot or dish. Defenders left all three of these players alone on the perimeter, because they could not shoot threes, and it did not seem hamper them in any way to be able to penetrate and I saw many, many passing opportunities to open teammates for all of them. All three played with a shoot-first mentality, either their own, or directed to shoot first by their coach, and when they penetrated they looked mostly to score the ball.

Last season, Cal had a point guard, Darius McNeill, who could really shoot threes,, even though his shooting tailed off to 35.3%, and yet it apparently did not open passing lanes for him, as he averaged a miserable 2.2 assists. It was not all his fault, as teammates did not move well without the ball, but he was not able to penetrate much or create much. I don't want to see Cal going with a point guard like this again. I'd rather have one who could penetrate and create, and not have so much confidence in his three that he neglects his primary duties of creating and running offense in favor of shooting his own threes. We are not going to find another Stephen Curry soon, and we don't need that level of talent to win games in college. This isn't the NBA.

I agree with you it would be nice or perhaps ideal that Austin be able to shoot threes, but if he shows he can penetrate and make things happen without having a three, that is still fine with me.

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In order to count as an assist, the person receiving the pass has to score.

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But, even before that, he would have to catch the ball, hold onto it, and not lose his dribble.

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Player A passes the ball to player B. If player B then has to take a dribble before he shoots, then technically, to my mind, he was not open, and player A should not be awarded an assist. If player B needed to dribble the ball before making his shot, then he is the one creating the shot, not Player A who first passed the ball to him, and Player A is not awarded an assist. Maybe with some very liberal statisticians, Player A might get an assist, but I don't think that is correct.

In Oscar Robertson's day, when the NBA first began awarding assists, Oscar said that if he passed to a player, and the player took EVEN ONE STEP after receiving the ball to make his shot, then Oscar said he would not have been awarded an assist on the basket.

---

I agree that assists are awarded differently than in "O"s day; today taking a dribble or 2 as long as they aren't moves to evade a defender usually still gets called an assist. We can debate whether or not it should be.

I'm pretty sure even Robertson would get an assist on a fast break if he made a great pass and the shooter took one step to jump...

---

I prefer easily understandable and easy to apply rules, without so much subjectivity involved. How does the statistician know why a player took a dribble? Maybe he had to dribble or take a step because he did not get a good pass from the passer. Maybe he took a dribble or a step to regain control or rhythm. Or to take a dribble or step to give him a higher leap for a dunk?

When the shot is a perimeter shot, how do you judge that one? I'm a traditionalist, so I don't believe an assist should ever be given for passing to a player for a three, because a three is a much lower percentage shot. The three is much more about the shooter than the pass, and depends much more on the skill of the shooter than the skill of the passer. But they give assists for threes now, so if the shooter takes a dribble, how do you determine why he took the dribble? I've seen shooters take a dribble to evade a defender, but I have seen them bounce the ball to get in rhythm, or to adjust for an inaccurate pass. Or maybe it is just a habit.

The game has changed to hand out more participation awards, and liberalizing of the criteria for what is an assist is just another of those. It is one more device to make it impossible to honestly compare the achievements of past players with present ones, statistically.

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There were a couple of backwards, through-the-legs-bounce passes to Steph running just-in-time to the corner along the baseline - and, with the passes being by bigs (Bell, for sure, maybe also West), they also become screeners behind whom Steph took the corner three. He may not even have finished running to the spot when he first touched the ball. The Ws do a lot of that sort of stuff, e.g., guys flashing between 25 and 90 degrees across a not-un-crowded lane, and still moving when they get the ball, sometimes a fair distance. If those passes aren't assists, then . . . .

dear Mr. cohen; You went to High School in the City: Let me guess; Washington, Lincoln or Lowell?????What year???

in case you're wondering, I've been authorized by Mr. mueller to get this info---just in case additional info is needed against you-know-who.

helltopay1 said:

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dear Mr. cohen; You went to High School in the City: Let me guess; Washington, Lincoln or Lowell?????What year???

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If it's me to whom you are referring, I did not go to High School in the City.

My bad. Is that a sentence?