helltopay1 said:

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ursa: for petes sake, you are way too old to be a hard-core lefty. Praising the NYT???Good Lord. If you were under 45 or so, I could understand---those poor kids have been taught by lefties, socialists and communists all their lives, and, don't know any better---but you??You are what---77 or 78??Good grief!!

---

HTP - you need to get out more and meet people. Not everyone falls into hard-core lefty or hard-core righty. That type of polarization is something called a "Distinction without a Difference" - look it up, it may serve you well.

From your six sentences, help me make sure I got your message straight (in order). . .

1. 'hard-core lefty' is 'bad' and primarily related to age.
2. NYT is 'bad' and mentioning and praising it are the same.
3. You believe in a superior being and believe it to have a positive impact on you.
4. People born after 1975 were subject to a cabal of propagandists that incapacitated their abilities of critical thinking and rational thought. This suggests that you have some idea about what should be done with dangerous element. . .
5. Your concern with Ursa's specific age in years in your penultimate concern.
6. Emotional angst can be a positive.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear MSolives: Touche. There are two things in this world which tempt me to put a noose around my neck: Nancy Pelosi and egotistical self-singers who butcher the Anthem beyond all recognition. These days, when a solo singer starts the Anthem, you can spend 30 minutes in the bathroom, exit the bathroom, and, the damn singer still hasn't finished the damn song. I finally notified the Cal AD, and said, that singers need to be notified in advance to stop butchering the song. Voila!!!!!!the AD obviously agreed with me, because, from then on, either the Anthewm was not sung by an individual performer or it was sung by a chorus. BTW, I much prefer America the beautiful than the Anthem. gotta love Nancy. I know her husband. We played on the same CYO team years ago--her Dad was a mob informer all his public life, and, here she is, telling we poor slobs how to act, think and feel. Only in America.

---

Yes, hard to believe that "poor slobs" will respond to someone with wealth, and no empathy...good thing a person like that could never be President.
I agree about the anthem. Last time I looked, they don't play it before the opera, ballet et. al. Somehow, sports is "required" to have this go on, and yes, it can definitely be butchered.

"... gotta love Nancy. I know her husband. We played on the same CYO team years ago--her Dad was a mob informer all his public life, and, here she is, telling we poor slobs how to act, think and feel. Only in America."

...but let me guess, you are a HUGE Rudy Giuliani fan. His dad, Harold, was a convicted felon, jailbird and money collecting leg breaker for the Mafia....and in Rudy's case, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

stu said:

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1) Why play the anthem at all? Oddly enough I think most of us agree on this point.

2) If we must play the anthem why not let the Straw Hat band do it? Or, as I have seen on rare occasions, let one of the athletes sing it?

3) Why is the anthem all about death and destruction? We could do better.

---

I have never liked the Star Spangled Banner with its disturbing images of bombs bursting in air, etc. Also, it is so hard to sing that even professional singers have a hard time. America the Beautiful with 'brotherhood from sea to shining sea' is much better.

calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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smh said:

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Civil Bear said:

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That poll says nothing about those that oppose Obamacare support the ACA. In fact, if anything it suggests those that do oppose Obamacare (read Repubs) are more likely to know they are one and the same than those that don't oppose it (read dems). That from the right-wing bastion NYTimes

---

of course moore attractive to us doddering Bernie Bros-Sistas is the percentage lusting after european/ commonwealth/ MM style health care.. oh baby oh baby, socialize me baby
# forked predatory health corpse shell games

---

Yes, yes, if only the US had the UK's death rate of those infected with COVID-19 (15.3%) or even Canada's (7.9%) as opposed to our own (3.5%). Traffic would flow much better.

---

I will not get into the inactions of Boris Johnson which mirror Donald Trump's but with less local control.

Deaths lag new cases and spike when they hit nursing homes and/or when concentrated in one location and ICUs get overwhelmed. Canada's new cases peaked on May 3 with 2,760 new cases. However deaths peaked 4 weeks later on May 31 at 222 deaths even though new cases had already dropped to 757. Most of the deaths were tied to outbreaks in nursing homes in and around Montreal. Since then the virus has been brought under control and deaths have dropped:

Yesterday, July 24, Canada recorded 533 new cases and 7 deaths.

Meanwhile on July 24 the US recorded 74,360 new cases and 1,150 deaths.

The geometric increase in new cases in the US mathematically reduces the "deaths per infected" metric due to the lag. As a somewhat extreme example, if new cases are doubling every week and 10% of infected will die in 4 weeks, the "death per infected" will appear to be only 1.25% when it is really 10%.

However, the bigger problem with the current boom in new cases in the US is we are just now seeing ICUs reach capacity in places like Texas and Florida so the underlying death rate is almost inevitably going to ramp up.

There is a reason Canada closed the border with the US. 7 deaths compared to 1,150 deaths? Really not a great argument against Canada.

Oh, and after someone recovers from COVID-19 in Canada there is no medical bill. In the US medical debt was out of control before the pandemic and now...https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/16/coronavirus-hospital-bill-healthcare-america

Really not great to compare the US with Canada on this one.

---

Nice spin. You found a date where the death rate was statistically similar. Yet the overall figures say you are twice as likely to die if you catch COVID-19 in Canada. As for your nursing home excuse, over 40% of the US COVID deaths are linked to them. Had our Mayors opted to use facilities provided by the feds instead of putting COVID positive seniors in nursing homes the US death rate would be even less.

As a green-card carrying Canadian I can assure you the medical care in the US is far superior. Anyone in Canada with a serious illness comes to the US to get treated if they can afford it (please don't make me give out my own family's record in the US v.s Canada). Personally, I'd rather be stuck with a bill than be dead, but that's just me.

---

I did not cherry pick anything. Deaths lag new cases by a month. A country where the new cases are declining rapidly is going to have a higher ratio of deaths over new cases than a country where new cases are climbing rapidly. That is just math.

The virus is the virus. There is no cure. The US does not have any technology for treating it that Canada does not have. Yes, if you can afford it, the US generally has better medical care, especially at the top end. I don't doubt your experience or that of your friends. I have heard the same from my wealthy Canadian relatives. They always get their procedures done when they are at their winter homes in Palm Springs.

However, in the US if you do not have insurance, and cannot prove you can pay, hospitals can turn you away.

Again, 7 people died in Canada yesterday versus 1,150 in the US and it is getting worse:

Houston
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/houston-coronavirus-emergency-rooms/

Mississippi
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-surge-brings-suffering-impoverished-underresourced-mississippi-delta-n1234098?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3UYASU7nptCtwe30pxsyzjQfWimjT0NFVvL3NM1SC3EtzoMCLiSps_gOA

---

My argument has to do with the percentage of COVID related deaths, not the sheer numbers. The rate will differ from time to time as you suggest, but the overall rate is what it is.

I am glad that you are willing to appreciate the US has better medical care. It's something most people that are longing for socialized medicine are unwilling to grasp. For those that can't afford it, there is Medicaid, clinics, and the EMTALA. And for those that say that level of care is not good enough, it's something they should consider along with Medicare and the VA when promoting complete government control of our healthcare system.

Civil Bear said:

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My argument has to do with the percentage of COVID related deaths, not the sheer numbers. The rate will differ from time to time as you suggest, but the overall rate is what it is.

I am glad that you are willing to appreciate the US has better medical care. It's something most people that are longing for socialized medicine are unwilling to grasp. For those that can't afford it, there is Medicaid, clinics, and the EMTALA. And for those that say that level of care is not good enough, it's something they should consider along with Medicare and the VA when promoting complete government control of our healthcare system.

---

The real question is which anthem to sing before getting your healthcare or swapping germs with your neighbors. I'm thinking something like Jimmy Crack Corn (from when America was Great) or from the Stephen Foster repertiore like "Old Folks at Home", "Hard Times Come Again No More"

Dear Bearister. I can play your game. Nancys' Dad was a Mafia informer all his public life. Rudy was very instrumental in getting convictions for the Mob crime bosses. and, during his tenure asa Mayor, drastically reduced crime in NY. Would you like to dispute any of the above??

According to recent surveys, more and more young folks are embracing socialism rather than free enterprise as the ideal model for America. Where do you suppose these young folks are getting the wonderful news about socialism from??Hint: Teachers in grammar school, college, graduate school. In 1969, the ratio of liberal professors to conservative professors was 3-2. Today, it is closer to 50-1. The true figure may be much higher. In addition, grammar and high school teachers are overwhelming liberal and are not above indoctrinating their young satrudents about the evils of America in general and free enterprise in particular. (students). If you don't understand this, you haven't been paying attention. And, I haven't even mentioned the Liberal propaganda practiced by Hollywood 24 hours a day. Try getting a role in Hollywood if you profess contrary views. Hollywood is practicing McCarthyism in reverse. has been for a very long time. Try speaking on a campus ( any campus) if you are a conservative. You will be lucky to escape with your life.

"You will be lucky to escape with your life."

Way to torpedo your already over the top argument. Basically you contend that ALL teachers are filthy Commies and they are brainwashing our kids and that's why certain socialist ideas ( beyond the ones we already embrace like government funded police and fire departments) are gaining traction. AND they want to kill conservative speakers that date to set foot on campus?

Shyte like this might play well with your Facebook friends and your drinking buddies, but it really is crap. Maybe the utter failure of decades of conservatism and Reaganomics and morally bankrupt GOP policies has something to do with the growing appeal of social welfare programs (which is not the same as Socialism).

Can you say "left Wing Nut Case". Only on a UC blog. Socialist "successes" inclide Venezuela, Cuba, Russia. China, most of Africa.

Social Welfare success: Norway, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Canada, South Korea.

And the "socialism" in those countries you list isn't textbook socialism. But you knew that - you just ignore it because it exposes the straw man argument.

helltopay1 said:

---

Dear Bearister. I can play your game. Nancys' Dad was a Mafia informer all his public life. Rudy was very instrumental in getting convictions for the Mob crime bosses. and, during his tenure asa Mayor, drastically reduced crime in NY. Would you like to dispute any of the above??

---

I just watched Fear City. Rudy was a key to developing the legal strategy that took down the mob. He definitely hogged more than his share of the glory for it. By all accounts he did some good things as Mayor. In his old age he appears to be losing the battle to the unethical strands in his DNA. Ask his 3 ex wives what they think of his honor and integrity. In simple terms, he is bent.

Commentary: The case for Rudy Giuliani's disbarment Minnesota Lawyer


https://minnlawyer.com/2019/10/09/commentary-the-case-for-rudy-giulianis-disbarment/

Rudy Giuliani's Pursuit of Money and Power May Cost Trump | Time


https://time.com/5714722/rudy-giuliani-transformation/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5714722/rudy-giuliani-transformation/%3famp=true

The Fog of Rudy - The New York Times


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/15/magazine/rudy-giuliani.html

Nancys' Dad did not have 'mob connections". he was a card-carrying member. He informed to the FBI and local authorities, and, as a result, was never prosecuted. Rudy was a very successful mob crime fighter-----would you or I have the guts to take on the mob???They threatened to kill his wife, and, he still persevered. Would you have persevered if they threatened to kill your wife???And, your complaint is that "he hogged the spotlight"???Big f******. deal. He saved New York then, and, later, saved it again by clamping down on crime as Mayor----but, " he hogged the spotlight." What's more important----saving NY from the Mob, or " hogging the spotlight?" Good grief!!!!You better think that through again--Cal graduate, right???

Is a 'Nancy Pelosi Crime Family' Meme Accurate?


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nancy-pelosi-crime-family/

Well give me what you got because as usual, you are big on talk and zero on citable support. Give me factual support other than gossip from the CYO bench.

helltopay1 said:

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...You better think that through again--Cal graduate, right???

---

Cal and Hastings....and it is a lot more believable I am a Cal grad than that you are. Rudy is a f@ucking crook now, regardless of what he may have been decades ago. He capitulated to the Dark Side.

The New York Times????In the immortal words oof Jack Warden, " what is this---a f****** joke?" The current NYT is 14 feet to the left of Pravda. 50 editorial writers, and not a SINGLE conservative editorial writer.....Keep up with the times---pun intended. No serious follower of objective journalism takes the NYT seriously ever since Sulzberger, the radical Cal grad, took over the reins from his Father. The NYT has always been a liberal organ. It hasn't endorsed a Republican for President since 18790. Today, however, the NYT its not merely "liberal." Since young Sulzbereger took over, it is radical far-left and "diversity" of thought is not tolerated. You can be 'diverse" all you want to, as long as you are not an outspoken conservative. Bari Weiss, who describes herself as moistly liberal, just resigned her editorial post because she was ridiculed for being a jew as well not "woke" enough for the orthodox crowd who bullied her. she said something that most folks know--the NYT disguises their editorials as news, and does not tolerate anything which deviates from their hard-0left radical agenda. Please the 1619 project. written by a NYT celebrity. The essence of the project ( which will soon be taught in Public schools) is that the US was founded in slavery, and the Constitution was written to promote and maintain slavery rather than the greatest document known to man. naturally, she won a Pulitzer Prize for this seditious garbage. Who owns the Pulitzer Prize????Why---the NYT. This is the same NYT/Pulitzer Prize which gave Obama the prize for 'peace" BEFORE he actually took office. bob Hope used to tell jokes---but, there is no bigger joke than the NYT. and, you can tell them I said so!!!!

Once again, you just generically attack the source but not the facts. Provide something more than your stream of consciousness rant that supports your allegations against Thomas D'Alesandro and that supports a counter argument to my contention that as we sit here today Rudy Giuliani is an unethical person that is not to be trusted.


Giuliani Is at Risk of Criminal Exposure": Why Rudy's Ukrainian Adventure Could End His Legal Career | Vanity Fair


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/rudy-giuliani-ukraine-at-risk-of-criminal-exposure
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/09/rudy-giuliani-ukraine-at-risk-of-criminal-exposure/amp


At 78, Buchanan is as mentally agile as he was during his heyday. Each morning at his home in McLean, Virginia, he reads and annotates the print editions of five newspapers. | Andr Chung for POLITICO

Even Pat Buchanan, who is exponentially smarter than you and at least as far Right, knows he can get legitimate facts from The NY Times and WaPo:

" Buchanan reads and annotates copious amounts of news; he begins with Drudge Report and AntiWar.comtwo aggregators of reporting and opinion, one from the right and one from the libertarian-leaning leftbefore weaving his way, red markup pen at the ready, through the print editions of his five preferred newspapers: the New York Times, Washington Post, Washington Times, Wall Street Journal and Financial Times."

The Ideas Made It, But I Didn't' - POLITICO Magazine


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/22/pat-buchanan-trump-president-history-profile-215042

helltopay1 said:

---

The New York Times????In the immortal words oof Jack Warden, " what is this---a f****** joke?" The current NYT is 14 feet to the left of Pravda. 50 editorial writers, and not a SINGLE conservative editorial writer.....Keep up with the times---pun intended. No serious follower of objective journalism takes the NYT seriously ever since Sulzberger, the radical Cal grad, took over the reins from his Father. The NYT has always been a liberal organ. It hasn't endorsed a Republican for President since 18790. Today, however, the NYT its not merely "liberal." Since young Sulzbereger took over, it is radical far-left and "diversity" of thought is not tolerated. You can be 'diverse" all you want to, as long as you are not an outspoken conservative. Bari Weiss, who describes herself as moistly liberal, just resigned her editorial post because she was ridiculed for being a jew as well not "woke" enough for the orthodox crowd who bullied her. she said something that most folks know--the NYT disguises their editorials as news, and does not tolerate anything which deviates from their hard-0left radical agenda. Please the 1619 project. written by a NYT celebrity. The essence of the project ( which will soon be taught in Public schools) is that the US was founded in slavery, and the Constitution was written to promote and maintain slavery rather than the greatest document known to man. naturally, she won a Pulitzer Prize for this seditious garbage. Who owns the Pulitzer Prize????Why---the NYT. This is the same NYT/Pulitzer Prize which gave Obama the prize for 'peace" BEFORE he actually took office. bob Hope used to tell jokes---but, there is no bigger joke than the NYT. and, you can tell them I said so!!!!

---

A Freudian slip by you, or does she really describe herself as "moistly liberal"? You like Bari Weiss, eh? heh heh...

The NY Times isn't "radical left", btw, they have become "woke left". Kind of a Poor Man's SF Chronicle ("poor man's" in terms of degrees to the left, not overall journalism). Too much money involved for any big city newspaper to be radical left.

oh boy---do I have some beach property I'd love to sell you in Utah---

Civil Bear said:

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calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

smh said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

That poll says nothing about those that oppose Obamacare support the ACA. In fact, if anything it suggests those that do oppose Obamacare (read Repubs) are more likely to know they are one and the same than those that don't oppose it (read dems). That from the right-wing bastion NYTimes

---

of course moore attractive to us doddering Bernie Bros-Sistas is the percentage lusting after european/ commonwealth/ MM style health care.. oh baby oh baby, socialize me baby
# forked predatory health corpse shell games

---

Yes, yes, if only the US had the UK's death rate of those infected with COVID-19 (15.3%) or even Canada's (7.9%) as opposed to our own (3.5%). Traffic would flow much better.

---

I will not get into the inactions of Boris Johnson which mirror Donald Trump's but with less local control.

Deaths lag new cases and spike when they hit nursing homes and/or when concentrated in one location and ICUs get overwhelmed. Canada's new cases peaked on May 3 with 2,760 new cases. However deaths peaked 4 weeks later on May 31 at 222 deaths even though new cases had already dropped to 757. Most of the deaths were tied to outbreaks in nursing homes in and around Montreal. Since then the virus has been brought under control and deaths have dropped:

Yesterday, July 24, Canada recorded 533 new cases and 7 deaths.

Meanwhile on July 24 the US recorded 74,360 new cases and 1,150 deaths.

The geometric increase in new cases in the US mathematically reduces the "deaths per infected" metric due to the lag. As a somewhat extreme example, if new cases are doubling every week and 10% of infected will die in 4 weeks, the "death per infected" will appear to be only 1.25% when it is really 10%.

However, the bigger problem with the current boom in new cases in the US is we are just now seeing ICUs reach capacity in places like Texas and Florida so the underlying death rate is almost inevitably going to ramp up.

There is a reason Canada closed the border with the US. 7 deaths compared to 1,150 deaths? Really not a great argument against Canada.

Oh, and after someone recovers from COVID-19 in Canada there is no medical bill. In the US medical debt was out of control before the pandemic and now...https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/16/coronavirus-hospital-bill-healthcare-america

Really not great to compare the US with Canada on this one.

---

Nice spin. You found a date where the death rate was statistically similar. Yet the overall figures say you are twice as likely to die if you catch COVID-19 in Canada. As for your nursing home excuse, over 40% of the US COVID deaths are linked to them. Had our Mayors opted to use facilities provided by the feds instead of putting COVID positive seniors in nursing homes the US death rate would be even less.

As a green-card carrying Canadian I can assure you the medical care in the US is far superior. Anyone in Canada with a serious illness comes to the US to get treated if they can afford it (please don't make me give out my own family's record in the US v.s Canada). Personally, I'd rather be stuck with a bill than be dead, but that's just me.

---

I did not cherry pick anything. Deaths lag new cases by a month. A country where the new cases are declining rapidly is going to have a higher ratio of deaths over new cases than a country where new cases are climbing rapidly. That is just math.

The virus is the virus. There is no cure. The US does not have any technology for treating it that Canada does not have. Yes, if you can afford it, the US generally has better medical care, especially at the top end. I don't doubt your experience or that of your friends. I have heard the same from my wealthy Canadian relatives. They always get their procedures done when they are at their winter homes in Palm Springs.

However, in the US if you do not have insurance, and cannot prove you can pay, hospitals can turn you away.

Again, 7 people died in Canada yesterday versus 1,150 in the US and it is getting worse:

Houston
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/houston-coronavirus-emergency-rooms/

Mississippi
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-surge-brings-suffering-impoverished-underresourced-mississippi-delta-n1234098?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3UYASU7nptCtwe30pxsyzjQfWimjT0NFVvL3NM1SC3EtzoMCLiSps_gOA

---

My argument has to do with the percentage of COVID related deaths, not the sheer numbers. The rate will differ from time to time as you suggest, but the overall rate is what it is.

I am glad that you are willing to appreciate the US has better medical care. It's something most people that are longing for socialized medicine are unwilling to grasp. For those that can't afford it, there is Medicaid, clinics, and the EMTALA. And for those that say that level of care is not good enough, it's something they should consider along with Medicare and the VA when promoting complete government control of our healthcare system.

---

I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

at least Rudy didn't try to unseat a duly elected president--please read the IG's voluminous rep[ort--please read the declassified documents surround the FBI, DOJ, Steele Dossier and the FISA warrants. At lease Rudy didn't spy on a duly-elected president, his family and associates before and after an election. at least Rudy didn't try to set up a decorated war-hero like Mike Flynn. at Least Rucy did not sic the IRS on his political enemies between 2008-2012..remember Lois Lerner???she pled the fifth---who do you think she worked for???Thge man in the moon???at least Rudy did not use the fraudulent Steelke Dossier to launch a politically-inspired mueller investigation..Not fraudulent???How do you explain that ALL 17 members off Mueller' s staff were either democrats or lawyers who had worked on Hillarys' campaign?????Not a single Republican on his staff----you have an explanation, right??at least Rudy didn't trey to impeach a duly-elected President based on the totally, fraudulent , discredited Mueller investigation. At least Rudy didn't cause several FBI and DOJ members to be either fired, demoted or re-assigned because of their nefarious activities trying to unseat a duly-elected President. At least Ruydy didst';t say terrible things about Obama every day for eight years like the 'journalists" at CNN, MSNBC, Wa Po and the NYT do every to the Trump administration. The virus and George Floyd saved Biden and the Democratic party. Absent those two events, and Trump would have won in a landslide. ( best overall economy & stock market in 50 years and no stupid wars. and don't think that honest historians are unaware of the facts listed above. Even Democrats know what the Obama administration tried to do to the incoming administration. Thank God for de-classified e-0mails and de-classified documents and FISA warrants. We now know that all 4 FISA warrants used against Carter OPage were not properly predicated. Did Rudy ever try to fool the FISA court into obtaining fraudulent warrants????what you know ( or choose not to know) and $2.95 won';t get you a cup of coffee at your local diner. Come to think of it, wake up and smell the coffee.

helltopay1 said:

---

oh boy---do I have some beach property I'd love to sell you in Utah---

---

Person Woman Man Camera TV

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

smh said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

That poll says nothing about those that oppose Obamacare support the ACA. In fact, if anything it suggests those that do oppose Obamacare (read Repubs) are more likely to know they are one and the same than those that don't oppose it (read dems). That from the right-wing bastion NYTimes

---

of course moore attractive to us doddering Bernie Bros-Sistas is the percentage lusting after european/ commonwealth/ MM style health care.. oh baby oh baby, socialize me baby
# forked predatory health corpse shell games

---

Yes, yes, if only the US had the UK's death rate of those infected with COVID-19 (15.3%) or even Canada's (7.9%) as opposed to our own (3.5%). Traffic would flow much better.

---

I will not get into the inactions of Boris Johnson which mirror Donald Trump's but with less local control.

Deaths lag new cases and spike when they hit nursing homes and/or when concentrated in one location and ICUs get overwhelmed. Canada's new cases peaked on May 3 with 2,760 new cases. However deaths peaked 4 weeks later on May 31 at 222 deaths even though new cases had already dropped to 757. Most of the deaths were tied to outbreaks in nursing homes in and around Montreal. Since then the virus has been brought under control and deaths have dropped:

Yesterday, July 24, Canada recorded 533 new cases and 7 deaths.

Meanwhile on July 24 the US recorded 74,360 new cases and 1,150 deaths.

The geometric increase in new cases in the US mathematically reduces the "deaths per infected" metric due to the lag. As a somewhat extreme example, if new cases are doubling every week and 10% of infected will die in 4 weeks, the "death per infected" will appear to be only 1.25% when it is really 10%.

However, the bigger problem with the current boom in new cases in the US is we are just now seeing ICUs reach capacity in places like Texas and Florida so the underlying death rate is almost inevitably going to ramp up.

There is a reason Canada closed the border with the US. 7 deaths compared to 1,150 deaths? Really not a great argument against Canada.

Oh, and after someone recovers from COVID-19 in Canada there is no medical bill. In the US medical debt was out of control before the pandemic and now...https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/16/coronavirus-hospital-bill-healthcare-america

Really not great to compare the US with Canada on this one.

---

Nice spin. You found a date where the death rate was statistically similar. Yet the overall figures say you are twice as likely to die if you catch COVID-19 in Canada. As for your nursing home excuse, over 40% of the US COVID deaths are linked to them. Had our Mayors opted to use facilities provided by the feds instead of putting COVID positive seniors in nursing homes the US death rate would be even less.

As a green-card carrying Canadian I can assure you the medical care in the US is far superior. Anyone in Canada with a serious illness comes to the US to get treated if they can afford it (please don't make me give out my own family's record in the US v.s Canada). Personally, I'd rather be stuck with a bill than be dead, but that's just me.

---

I did not cherry pick anything. Deaths lag new cases by a month. A country where the new cases are declining rapidly is going to have a higher ratio of deaths over new cases than a country where new cases are climbing rapidly. That is just math.

The virus is the virus. There is no cure. The US does not have any technology for treating it that Canada does not have. Yes, if you can afford it, the US generally has better medical care, especially at the top end. I don't doubt your experience or that of your friends. I have heard the same from my wealthy Canadian relatives. They always get their procedures done when they are at their winter homes in Palm Springs.

However, in the US if you do not have insurance, and cannot prove you can pay, hospitals can turn you away.

Again, 7 people died in Canada yesterday versus 1,150 in the US and it is getting worse:

Houston
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/houston-coronavirus-emergency-rooms/

Mississippi
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-surge-brings-suffering-impoverished-underresourced-mississippi-delta-n1234098?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3UYASU7nptCtwe30pxsyzjQfWimjT0NFVvL3NM1SC3EtzoMCLiSps_gOA

---

My argument has to do with the percentage of COVID related deaths, not the sheer numbers. The rate will differ from time to time as you suggest, but the overall rate is what it is.

I am glad that you are willing to appreciate the US has better medical care. It's something most people that are longing for socialized medicine are unwilling to grasp. For those that can't afford it, there is Medicaid, clinics, and the EMTALA. And for those that say that level of care is not good enough, it's something they should consider along with Medicare and the VA when promoting complete government control of our healthcare system.

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I will say it one more time so you cannot ignore it: because deaths lag new cases by a month on average, the ratio of deaths over new cases is going to be higher for a country where new case have dropped considerably versus a country where new cases are still increasing rapidly. That is just math. .

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Quote:

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You can keep saying it, but it won't make an appreciable difference in the overall percentages. You would need a spike in new cases relative to the first quarter, an increase in nursing homes getting infected, and the CCUs being overwhelmed to double the death rate, and that just ain't happening. In fact, the percentage of COVID tests coming back positive has held reasonably steady since the initial spike save a relatively slight increase as expected after the initial reopening and all the protest/riot shenanigans, and have already started to drop again nationally. The rate of COVID related hospitalizations have also begun to follow suit and has dropped off over the last two weeks, and the death rate continues to drop like a rock since the initial spike. It helps that the vast majority of those being infected this time around are the least susceptible to die because of it. I bolded "percentage" and "rate" because you (and the media) seem to be fixated on the sheer numbers.

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Edited to add charts

AunBear89, like most "lefties" you don't know *** you are talking about. Countries like Sweden and Canada are not socialist countries. Socialism means "state control of the means of production".

And, like most Righteous Righties, you have crap reading comprehension.

caltagjohnson said:

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AunBear89, like most "lefties" you don't know *** you are talking about. Countries like Sweden and Canada are not socialist countries. Socialism means "state control of the means of production".

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FWIW - 'right' and 'left' come from the French Revolution. The right wanted a return of the Monarchy and the Left wanted Liberty, Fraternity and Equality.

Since I'm not a 'leftie', I know what I'm talking about.

BTW - Sweden and Canada both have a Monarch (but with extremely limited powers).

helltopay1 said:

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at least Rudy didn't try to unseat a duly elected president--please read the IG's voluminous rep[ort--please read the declassified documents surround the FBI, DOJ, Steele Dossier and the FISA warrants. At lease Rudy didn't spy on a duly-elected president, his family and associates before and after an election. at least Rudy didn't try to set up a decorated war-hero like Mike Flynn. at Least Rucy did not sic the IRS on his political enemies between 2008-2012..remember Lois Lerner???she pled the fifth---who do you think she worked for???Thge man in the moon???at least Rudy did not use the fraudulent Steelke Dossier to launch a politically-inspired mueller investigation..Not fraudulent???How do you explain that ALL 17 members off Mueller' s staff were either democrats or lawyers who had worked on Hillarys' campaign?????Not a single Republican on his staff----you have an explanation, right??at least Rudy didn't trey to impeach a duly-elected President based on the totally, fraudulent , discredited Mueller investigation. At least Rudy didn't cause several FBI and DOJ members to be either fired, demoted or re-assigned because of their nefarious activities trying to unseat a duly-elected President. At least Ruydy didst';t say terrible things about Obama every day for eight years like the 'journalists" at CNN, MSNBC, Wa Po and the NYT do every to the Trump administration. The virus and George Floyd saved Biden and the Democratic party. Absent those two events, and Trump would have won in a landslide. ( best overall economy & stock market in 50 years and no stupid wars. and don't think that honest historians are unaware of the facts listed above. Even Democrats know what the Obama administration tried to do to the incoming administration. Thank God for de-classified e-0mails and de-classified documents and FISA warrants. We now know that all 4 FISA warrants used against Carter OPage were not properly predicated. Did Rudy ever try to fool the FISA court into obtaining fraudulent warrants????what you know ( or choose not to know) and $2.95 won';t get you a cup of coffee at your local diner. Come to think of it, wake up and smell the coffee.

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I'm not wasting my time on your Foxed up/trumped points, lies(aka conspiracy theories), but rather to put something that i have discussed with a Presidential Historian friend: there isn't a sitting President in the last 100 years or so of history, who, faced with the Virus, could not have turned that into victory. He speculated that almost every sitting Senator would have turned the Virus into a win.

mbBear said:

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I'm not wasting my time on your Foxed up/trumped points, lies(aka conspiracy theories), but rather to put something that i have discussed with a Presidential Historian friend: there isn't a sitting President in the last 100 years or so of history, who, faced with the Virus, could not have turned that into victory. He speculated that almost every sitting Senator would have turned the Virus into a win.

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Good point. Any ordinary demagogue with half a brain would have overstated the threat then claimed credit for a better-than-expected outcome. I'm just grateful this one hasn't (yet) started a war to gain support among the rally-round-the-flag types.

BTW I don't think this discussion is irrelevant on a sports forum. I see contemporary politics as getting your fans to come out and support the team and doing whatever it takes to win. I'm such as idealist - I thought one point of sports was to move these battles to arenas where the outcomes are of little consequence.

The only reason this thread is on this board is that the OP, who wouldn't be able to find his own a$$ if he used both hands, can't figure out how to navigate his way to the Off Topic Board.*

*Which comes as a huge f@ucking surprise, right?

helltopay1 said:

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oh boy---do I have some beach property I'd love to sell you in Utah---

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Utah beach property.

Civil Bear said:

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July 25
Canada 346 new cases, 3 deaths
USA 65,944 new cases, 985 deaths

How anyone spins this in favor of the US's handling of the virus or as evidence of a superior health care system is mind boggling.

Not surprising coming from Trump, very surprising coming from a Cal grad.

calumnus said:

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July 25
Canada 346 new cases, 3 deaths
USA 65,944 new cases, 985 deaths

How anyone spins this in favor of the US's handling of the virus or as evidence of a superior health care system is mind boggling.

Not surprising coming from Trump, very surprising coming from a Cal grad.

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There was a guy who lived in the dorms when I was a freshman who was the biggest homophobic, redneck, gun-toting hillbilly I ever met at Cal. He lived in one of those three person rooms and one of his roommates was gay, which is how we found out he was a homophobe. His favorite slogan: America! Love it or leave it!