I created the thread in off-topic by design. Some folks on the hoops board have complained over the years about non-Cal stuff there.

philbert said:

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Anyway, I certainly didn't think Poole would look like this in year 2. He's the alpha dog of the 2nd unit if he keeps this up.

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Indeed!
Pretty stunning his sudden transformation.
1. Must have realized his career was hanging in the balance.
2. He got right with the Lord.
3. He's saved his career.
4. If he can play like this for the next x years, the W's are in business!
5. If he can play like this, the W's will lose him to another team per salary demand concerns.
6. He's proving the W's brass right for drafting him.
7. *** is happening? He was an immature bust of a pick.

BearForce2 said:

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I can't resist, it's Friday yo.

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Look at you, breaking out the Yo!

You clearly surf the same right wing channels as my uneducated MAGA cousin in TX he sent me a Biden stumble video last night. I responded by asking if he felt Impeachment was in order.







BF2, you MUST watch this one, if only for the technical marvel it is:

This play happened last night.
Oh my goodness, the announcer totally blew the call!!!

Sometimes it just takes non-lottery picks awhile before the light turns on. I'm always hesitant to draw major conclusions on players based on how they look in their rookie seasons with limited PT. I was disappointed when I didn't see marked improvement at the beginning of this season, but Covid likely had an impact. I figured he could shoot outside, but the ability to put it on the floor and score via midrange and layups has been shocking.

philbert said:

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Sometimes it just takes non-lottery picks awhile before the light turns on. I'm always hesitant to draw major conclusions on players based on how they look in their rookie seasons with limited PT. I was disappointed when I didn't see marked improvement at the beginning of this season, but Covid likely had an impact. I figured he could shoot outside, but the ability to put it on the floor and score via midrange and layups has been shocking.

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Well, whatever it is, he looks promising to me for the first time (I didn't watch more than 2 games last year, so...)

I think it's the haircut. He snipped off his "image" and is merely focusing on ball.

Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

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Wiseman is very raw and clearly needs more seasoning. They may be better off in this narrow stretch of games to reach a low playoff seed without him, but long-term they'll want a good big man to have any further championship aspirations with this core, so you have to play him when he's healthy.

In games he's played, here is the W-L record sorted by # of minutes played.

10-7 in the games where he was out with an injury or Covid protocol.
10-4 when he plays 6-18 mins
5-5 when he plays 19-24 mins
3-12 when he plays 25-36 mins

That's really bad!
I guess he only gets the high #'s when the game is a blowout loss by the 4th qtr and coach decides to play him more then. When the game is close, Wiseman is not getting PT at the end. Still, the pattern is clear for my eyes. The team looked great with Toscano-Anderson's energy last night.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wisemja01/gamelog/2021

Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

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You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

On that note, I think the Timberwolves blew it by drafting Anthony Edwards #1. They've only been 14-42 in games he's played.

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Since the All-Star break, Edwards is averaging 24 points, five rebounds, three assists and over a steal a game.

Combative Dick said:

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dimitrig said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

---

You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

On that note, I think the Timberwolves blew it by drafting Anthony Edwards #1. They've only been 14-42 in games he's played.

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Since the All-Star break, Edwards is averaging 24 points, five rebounds, three assists and over a steal a game.

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I guess my sarcasm wasn't obvious enough. I doubted that pick at the time and LaMelo Ball may end up the more impactful player over the long haul, but that guy is going to be a very good player.

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Ah. Yes, I missed the sarcasm but I see it now.

I do wonder how hard they will try to sign Oubre this summer. Because they're way over the cap, a sign and trade isn't likely since that would trigger a hard cap.

"He boasted that the Warriors are playing in a far more sophisticated fashion than the rest of the league. "We've crushed them on the basketball court, and we're going to for years because of the way we've built this team," he said. But what really set the franchise apart, he said, was the way it operated as a business. "We're light-years ahead of probably every other team in structure, in planning, in how we're going to go about things," he said. "We're going to be a handful for the rest of the N.B.A. to deal with for a long time."
-What Happened When Venture Capitalists Took Over the Golden State Warriors By Bruce Schoenfeld, NY Times, March 30, 2016

Warriors record from 2019-2020 to present 43-78 (.551)

dimitrig said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

---

You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

On that note, I think the Timberwolves blew it by drafting Anthony Edwards #1. They've only been 14-42 in games he's played.

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Since the All-Star break, Edwards is averaging 24 points, five rebounds, three assists and over a steal a game.

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And with that, another Yogi account has been deleted, only to be preserved by your response.

philbert said:

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I do wonder how hard they will try to sign Oubre this summer. Because they're way over the cap, a sign and trade isn't likely since that would trigger a hard cap.

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Here's another numerical look at it:
Wiseman started 27 games. Warriors have won just 10 of them.
Wiseman came off the bench in 12 games. Warriors have won 7 of them.

No matter how you look at it, by minutes, by starts, by playing or not playing at all - the less the Warriors put Wiseman in their lineup, the better they do.
I wasn't busting on Wiseman as a bad draft pick. I was merely pointing out that THIS year's team has been doing better without him. I was merely suggesting that we should see them climb in the standings toward that play-in game.

dimitrig said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

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You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

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Mr Combative D is talking apples and oranges just to be combative.

Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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dimitrig said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

---

You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

On that note, I think the Timberwolves blew it by drafting Anthony Edwards #1. They've only been 14-42 in games he's played.

---

Since the All-Star break, Edwards is averaging 24 points, five rebounds, three assists and over a steal a game.

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And with that, another Yogi account has been deleted, only to be preserved by your response.

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Will you be OK?

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So how is it that your entire comment was removed/deleted if your account wasn't deleted? Unless you spawned a new one by the same name?
I suppose they easily can (and do) delete comments, but your comment didn't merit it, so I figured they erased your entire account. Oh well. It's just the game people play.

concordtom said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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dimitrig said:

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Combative Dick said:

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concordtom said:

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Any truth to the observation that W's seem to win when they go small ball with Wiseman on the shelf and lose when they try to tutor him?

Now that the big rookie is out for the season, maybe the W's climb in the standings.

---

You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the fact that Curry (until last night) has been ridiculously hot. The whole fate of the team should be tied to whether 19-year old rookies play or not.

On that note, I think the Timberwolves blew it by drafting Anthony Edwards #1. They've only been 14-42 in games he's played.

---

Since the All-Star break, Edwards is averaging 24 points, five rebounds, three assists and over a steal a game.

---

And with that, another Yogi account has been deleted, only to be preserved by your response.

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Will you be OK?

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So how is it that your entire comment was removed/deleted if your account wasn't deleted? Unless you spawned a new one by the same name?

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That's what he's doing.

Well, that's to be expected given his overall experience with no offseason, limited training camp, and multiple injuries and covid interruptions. I do wish Kerr had just given him lots of minutes just to give him experience. This season is kinda wasted without Klay anyway, so they should've tried to maximize his development.

It's not like they didn't keep playing Oubre through his horrible early start to the season.

philbert said:

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Well, that's to be expected given his overall experience with no offseason, limited training camp, and multiple injuries and covid interruptions. I do wish Kerr had just given him lots of minutes just to give him experience. This season is kinda wasted without Klay anyway, so they should've tried to maximize his development.

It's not like they didn't keep playing Oubre through his horrible early start to the season.

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Well, I think Kerr did exactly that.

Chapter 1: Start him. Usually expected as a #2 pick, and wouldn't have spawned all sorts of media questions if not, and damaged his confidence and emotional connection to team mgmt if not. Gotta start him, and they did.

Chapter 2: He was getting overwhelmed, so they moved him to the bench to decrease the stress. Let him watch the game and get mentally right about the pace and the schemes and the level of competition.
Also, it had become clear he was getting in the way, keeping the team from playing its best, and the W's were wanting a better W/L record in the early part of the season. This might have been the only move where one could argue they were favoring team over Wiseman. But then again, the move to limit minutes was done for mental development, too. So... which was best. Frankly, it's just all coming at him too soon and he's too young to digest and improve at the rate necessary.

Chapter 3: He went out with Covid and wrist. N/A.

Chapter 4: He returns from Covid. The W/L record may have been better with him on the bench, but was admittedly a mess by this time, so Kerr decided to start him and just get him as many minutes as he could handle - geared toward development. Exactly as you were saying. He was improving. They simplified the offense with him and began to run a lot more pick and rolls with him in the roll in order to take advantage of his skillset and get him some confidence buckets. It was working.

Chapter 5: Injured and out.

During his most recent stint before he got injured, his minutes were still pretty limited. He'd sometimes only play in the 1st and 3rd quarters and that was it. Occasionally he'd get to come in during the 2nd and 4th quarters, but it was sporadic. That was even when he'd play well.

philbert said:

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During his most recent stint before he got injured, his minutes were still pretty limited. He'd sometimes only play in the 1st and 3rd quarters and that was it. Occasionally he'd get to come in during the 2nd and 4th quarters, but it was sporadic. That was even when he'd play well.

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He played 10 games since his return, and before his re-injury.
Forget about the 10th game, when he got injured and played few minutes.
So, in those 9 games, he averaged just over 25 minutes.

That's not too bad.
Did you want him to play more?

#1 pick Edwards is at 31 mpg.
#3 pick Ball is at 28 mpg.

You can see the stats for Wiseman's entire draft class here. Click on a player to see their average rather than total # of mins.:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2020.html
Interesting to compare the Advanced metrics in the table below and to the right.

I was thinking of the prior stretch of games where he averaged less than 20 mins/game except in the blowout losses. During that stretch, he definitely should've played more.

The Wiseman injury might end up being good for all concerned. The Warriors, at this point, are better without him. And the young man got enough playing time this season to where he can build on that for the future. Now he can let his body heal, while watching how things go in the NBA and taking it all in.

Of course, the WORST thing would be if he gets reinjured and eventually becomes Old Man Odom Jr.

Awesome game vs Boston this evening.
JTA is a big plus for the team. Stiches in head after diving for ball over the press tables, which turned into a Steph 3.
But Steph rolls his ankle late - not good.

People are missing the best stretch of Steph curry's career.
Another 10 3FG's, 49 pts in win over 76ers.
He now has 21 games with10 3's, 4 in the past week. Klay is second all time with 5. That's just amazing.

Steph is #1 in scoring this year with about 31.5 ppg.

And everyone is freaking about what Steph is doing these last 11 games or so, averaging 40 ppg.

But who wants to take a stab by comparing this to Harden and his 36 ppg in 2018-19?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/gamelog/2019/

Harden scored 30+ in 32 straight games
Steph is at merely 11.

" Steph Curry poured in 49 points (14-28 FG, 10-17 3PT) in a 107-96 win over his brother, Seth, and the East-leading 76ers.

Why it matters: A week after overtaking Wilt Chamberlain as the Warriors' all-time leading scorer, the best shooter in basketball history is hotter than he's ever been.

By the numbers: Curry is the first player in NBA history age 33 or older to score 30+ points in 11 straight games, passing Kobe Bryant.

Last five games: 44.8 points, 9.2 threes, 5.2 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 55.6% FG, 55.4% 3PT, 91% FT.
Month of April: 39.9 points, 6.9 threes, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 55.6% FG, 49.2% 3PT, 90.8% FT
Wild stat: Curry has 26 career games with 10+ made threes, including six this season alone. No other player in NBA history has more than five in their career.

"I've seen Kobe Bryant early in his career, had a stretch where he went nuts. Obviously, Michael Jordan had some stretches where he just scored like crazy, but obviously nobody's ever shot the ball like this ... Even by Steph's own lofty standards, this is above and beyond."
Warriors coach Steve Kerr
What to watch: Curry is on pace to join James Harden, Elgin Baylor, Kobe Bryant (3x) and Wilt Chamberlain (11x) as the only players to average 40 points in a month.

April 21: at Wizards (first Wizards game to allow fans all season!)
April 23: vs. Nuggets
April 25: vs. Kings
April 27: vs. Mavericks
April 29: at Timberwolves"
Axios

Scoring 200 pts in next5 games would be incredible.
But I don't think he can do it.

bearister said:

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" Steph Curry poured in 49 points (14-28 FG, 10-17 3PT) in a 107-96 win over his brother, Seth, and the East-leading 76ers.

Why it matters: A week after overtaking Wilt Chamberlain as the Warriors' all-time leading scorer, the best shooter in basketball history is hotter than he's ever been.

By the numbers: Curry is the first player in NBA history age 33 or older to score 30+ points in 11 straight games, passing Kobe Bryant.

Last five games: 44.8 points, 9.2 threes, 5.2 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 55.6% FG, 55.4% 3PT, 91% FT.
Month of April: 39.9 points, 6.9 threes, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 55.6% FG, 49.2% 3PT, 90.8% FT
Wild stat: Curry has 26 career games with 10+ made threes, including six this season alone. No other player in NBA history has more than five in their career.

"I've seen Kobe Bryant early in his career, had a stretch where he went nuts. Obviously, Michael Jordan had some stretches where he just scored like crazy, but obviously nobody's ever shot the ball like this ... Even by Steph's own lofty standards, this is above and beyond."
Warriors coach Steve Kerr
What to watch: Curry is on pace to join James Harden, Elgin Baylor, Kobe Bryant (3x) and Wilt Chamberlain (11x) as the only players to average 40 points in a month.

April 21: at Wizards (first Wizards game to allow fans all season!)
April 23: vs. Nuggets
April 25: vs. Kings
April 27: vs. Mavericks
April 29: at Timberwolves"
Axios

---

How many MVPs does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many rings does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many NBA Finals MVPs does Curry have?

Curry is a fantastic player and yet he's still overrated.

dimitrig said:

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bearister said:

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" Steph Curry poured in 49 points (14-28 FG, 10-17 3PT) in a 107-96 win over his brother, Seth, and the East-leading 76ers.

Why it matters: A week after overtaking Wilt Chamberlain as the Warriors' all-time leading scorer, the best shooter in basketball history is hotter than he's ever been.

By the numbers: Curry is the first player in NBA history age 33 or older to score 30+ points in 11 straight games, passing Kobe Bryant.

Last five games: 44.8 points, 9.2 threes, 5.2 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 55.6% FG, 55.4% 3PT, 91% FT.
Month of April: 39.9 points, 6.9 threes, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 55.6% FG, 49.2% 3PT, 90.8% FT
Wild stat: Curry has 26 career games with 10+ made threes, including six this season alone. No other player in NBA history has more than five in their career.

"I've seen Kobe Bryant early in his career, had a stretch where he went nuts. Obviously, Michael Jordan had some stretches where he just scored like crazy, but obviously nobody's ever shot the ball like this ... Even by Steph's own lofty standards, this is above and beyond."
Warriors coach Steve Kerr
What to watch: Curry is on pace to join James Harden, Elgin Baylor, Kobe Bryant (3x) and Wilt Chamberlain (11x) as the only players to average 40 points in a month.

April 21: at Wizards (first Wizards game to allow fans all season!)
April 23: vs. Nuggets
April 25: vs. Kings
April 27: vs. Mavericks
April 29: at Timberwolves"
Axios

---

How many MVPs does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many rings does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many NBA Finals MVPs does Curry have?

Curry is a fantastic player and yet he's still overrated.

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Kerr isn't saying Curry is better than Kobe or MJ (though there is an argument for him vs. Kobe), he's saying that none of them have put on a shooting display like Curry is doing now. That's probably true. No one can shoot threes like Steph Curry.

Stanford Jonah said:

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dimitrig said:

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bearister said:

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" Steph Curry poured in 49 points (14-28 FG, 10-17 3PT) in a 107-96 win over his brother, Seth, and the East-leading 76ers.

Why it matters: A week after overtaking Wilt Chamberlain as the Warriors' all-time leading scorer, the best shooter in basketball history is hotter than he's ever been.

By the numbers: Curry is the first player in NBA history age 33 or older to score 30+ points in 11 straight games, passing Kobe Bryant.

Last five games: 44.8 points, 9.2 threes, 5.2 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 55.6% FG, 55.4% 3PT, 91% FT.
Month of April: 39.9 points, 6.9 threes, 6.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 55.6% FG, 49.2% 3PT, 90.8% FT
Wild stat: Curry has 26 career games with 10+ made threes, including six this season alone. No other player in NBA history has more than five in their career.

"I've seen Kobe Bryant early in his career, had a stretch where he went nuts. Obviously, Michael Jordan had some stretches where he just scored like crazy, but obviously nobody's ever shot the ball like this ... Even by Steph's own lofty standards, this is above and beyond."
Warriors coach Steve Kerr
What to watch: Curry is on pace to join James Harden, Elgin Baylor, Kobe Bryant (3x) and Wilt Chamberlain (11x) as the only players to average 40 points in a month.

April 21: at Wizards (first Wizards game to allow fans all season!)
April 23: vs. Nuggets
April 25: vs. Kings
April 27: vs. Mavericks
April 29: at Timberwolves"
Axios

---

How many MVPs does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many rings does Curry have?

How many did Kobe have?

How many NBA Finals MVPs does Curry have?

Curry is a fantastic player and yet he's still overrated.

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Curry changed the NBA game. Kobe is a poor man's Michael Jordan.

Curry is a fantastic player and yet he's still underrated. Kobe is thoroughly overrated. Good player, but selfish.

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Steph Curry is a better offensive player than Kobe Bryant. Much more efficient with his own shooting and also better at getting his teammates involved. Kobe only scored more points per game because he took more shots.

Where Kobe has an argument vs. Steph is that he was clearly a better defender. How much difference that makes is up for debate.

Well you certainly dumped precipitation on that parade.

bearister said:

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Well you certainly dumped precipitation on that parade.

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dimitrig has long been a Debbie Downer when it comes to the Warriors. For evidence, I'd recommend everyone peruse his comments in a 2015 thread, before the Warriors won their first title with Curry.

We'll start with "No chance. Still a weak defensive team."