calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

concordtom said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

---

Maybe we should ask the scientists. They say elementary schools should be open.

---

And you think that is enough? The scientists said we didn't need masks because it wouldn't help and COVID-19 was not an airborne spread contagion but that we should wipe down our groceries. Then they said you only need cloth masks. Then they said wear mask all the time unless you can be six feet apart. Then they said wear mask indoors even if you are six feet apart because the virus stays airborne and travels. Then they said wear double mask. Until the family is vaccinated and there is herd immunity, I am not sending my kids into a crowded indoor space. It wasn't that long ago when CNN and MSNBC were mocking red states for opening up schools and how that was causing death for elders in the family and for teachers. Now it's OK even though we have a more contagious strain? If there is one thing that has been clear, the scientist are learning more everyday and getting things wrong everyday as well. I don't blame them but I am not blindly following the latest guess and putting my family at risk.

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

What if not enough teachers (or none) feel safe coming to work?

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

What if not enough teachers (or none) feel safe coming to work?

---

This is a lot of "what if's" that I don't think will come to pass. I know because schools are already open in other places and there isn't a place where ALL the teachers have refused to return.

But sure, in this unlikely scenario I guess you can't reopen.

sycasey said:

---

calbear93 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

concordtom said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

---

Maybe we should ask the scientists. They say elementary schools should be open.

---

And you think that is enough? The scientists said we didn't need masks because it wouldn't help and COVID-19 was not an airborne spread contagion but that we should wipe down our groceries. Then they said you only need cloth masks. Then they said wear mask all the time unless you can be six feet apart. Then they said wear mask indoors even if you are six feet apart because the virus stays airborne and travels. Then they said wear double mask. Until the family is vaccinated and there is herd immunity, I am not sending my kids into a crowded indoor space. It wasn't that long ago when CNN and MSNBC were mocking red states for opening up schools and how that was causing death for elders in the family and for teachers. Now it's OK even though we have a more contagious strain? If there is one thing that has been clear, the scientist are learning more everyday and getting things wrong everyday as well. I don't blame them but I am not blindly following the latest guess and putting my family at risk.

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Why is this about giving people a choice? Shut down small businesses because science says it will kill people if we allow people to choose whether to risk it but open schools and give people a chance to choose because science says there is no risk? We have to shut down businesses because lives are more important than money but now that we have a deadlier strain, we need to open up the businesses because our economy cannot survive otherwise? And how do we go from keep everyone home to we now have the highest death rate but 25% capacity is somehow the magic number? Just stick with it and apply some reasonable standard for why the those scientist make these decisions even if for the sake of credibility.

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

What if not enough teachers (or none) feel safe coming to work?

---

This is a lot of "what if's" that I don't think will come to pass. I know because schools are already open in other places and there isn't a place where ALL the teachers have refused to return.

But sure, in this unlikely scenario I guess you can't reopen.

---

Yeah, but what I am really getting at is the following:

1) If not enough teachers return are you okay with your kid being in a class with, say, 60 other students? 80? 100? Do you think that's a productive learning environment compared to whatever your kid is doing now?

2) Would you FORCE teachers to return to the classroom, perhaps requiring vaccinations as a condition to avoid 1)?

It's nice and all to think that parents should have a choice, but should teachers/staff also have a choice?

It SOUNDS LIKE you think teachers/staff should have a choice. I don't think it is at all improbable that not all teachers/staff would want to return so are you willing to live with the consequences of that?

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

BTW, I find this statement mildly disturbing.

Your most important criteria for a teacher for your child is his/her willingness to work during a pandemic?

It sounds like you are looking for a day care and not an educator.

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

What if not enough teachers (or none) feel safe coming to work?

---

This is a lot of "what if's" that I don't think will come to pass. I know because schools are already open in other places and there isn't a place where ALL the teachers have refused to return.

But sure, in this unlikely scenario I guess you can't reopen.

---

Yeah, but what I am really getting at is the following:

1) If not enough teachers return are you okay with your kid being in a class with, say, 60 other students? 80? 100? Do you think that's a productive learning environment compared to whatever your kid is doing now?

2) Would you FORCE teachers to return to the classroom, perhaps requiring vaccinations as a condition to avoid 1)?

It's nice and all to think that parents should have a choice, but should teachers/staff also have a choice?

It SOUNDS LIKE you think teachers/staff should have a choice. I don't think it is at all improbable that not all teachers/staff would want to return so are you willing to live with the consequences of that?

---

I can't control what other people think. My position is that elementary schools should be open, and I would take action to support that. If not enough other people have come around to my position for school reopening to be possible, so be it. I think they're wrong, but so be it.

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

I dunno. Why are you not educating your kids?

---

I'm not sure I understand your question - maybe you can clarify. My kids are currently being educated through distance learning - I'm hoping they are offered in-person school because distance learning (especially for the 6 year old) is not a great experience.

sycasey said:

---

I can't control what other people think. My position is that elementary schools should be open, and I would take action to support that. If not enough other people have come around to my position for school reopening to be possible, so be it. I think they're wrong, but so be it.

---

My position is that I should have a pony.

What kind of action would you take to support reopening schools?

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I can't control what other people think. My position is that elementary schools should be open, and I would take action to support that. If not enough other people have come around to my position for school reopening to be possible, so be it. I think they're wrong, but so be it.

---

My position is that I should have a pony.

What kind of action would you take to support reopening schools?

---

What the CDC recommends.

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

I dunno. Why are you not educating your kids?

---

I'm not sure I understand your question - maybe you can clarify. My kids are currently being educated through distance learning - I'm hoping they are offered in-person school because distance learning (especially for the 6 year old) is not a great experience.

---

You said:

"So why are we not educating our kids?"

That is my (admittedly glib) response. We are educating our kids. I don't know any schools that are closed. Maybe the distance learning thing doesn't suit you or your child.

If you don't like distance learning you have a few options:

1. Educate your kids yourself. I realize not everyone is willing or able to do this.

2. Enroll your kids in one of the private/parochial schools that are open.

3. Move to a state/area where schools are open. Before you laugh, I know people who have done just that - temporarily moved somewhere where schools were open because they thought that was important.

These options do require some effort and/or expense on you part. However, they do exist.

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

Then put him in class with a teacher who will come to work. I'm not picky.

---

BTW, I find this statement mildly disturbing.

Your most important criteria for a teacher for your child is his/her willingness to work during a pandemic?

It sounds like you are looking for a day care and not an educator.

---

I find your last sentence a little offensive. I can't speak for sycasey, but I agree with his viewpoints.

Elementary school in my view is not just about academics - I believe social-emotional growth is just as important. There is no way to recreate social-emotional growth through distance learning. This can only happen when kids are around each other physically.

My 6 year old hasn't been around other classmates in nearly a year, so yes, I'd be happy to have my children in a classroom, even if it wasn't with their "regular" teacher. I'm not looking for day care.... I'm looking for my child to stop saying their best friend is a stuffed animal.

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

I dunno. Why are you not educating your kids?

---

I'm not sure I understand your question - maybe you can clarify. My kids are currently being educated through distance learning - I'm hoping they are offered in-person school because distance learning (especially for the 6 year old) is not a great experience.

---

You said:

"So why are we not educating our kids?"

That is my (admittedly glib) response. We are educating our kids. I don't know any schools that are closed. Maybe the distance learning thing doesn't suit you or your child.

If you don't like distance learning you have a few options:

1. Educate your kids yourself. I realize not everyone is willing or able to do this.

2. Enroll your kids in one of the private/parochial schools that are open.

3. Move to a state/area where schools are open. Before you laugh, I know people who have done just that - temporarily moved somewhere where schools were open because they thought that was important.

These options do require some effort and/or expense on you part. However, they do exist.

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

75bear said:

---

I find your last sentence a little offensive. I can't speak for sycasey, but I agree with his viewpoints.

Elementary school in my view is not just about academics - I believe social-emotional growth is just as important. There is no way to recreate social-emotional growth through distance learning. This can only happen when kids are around each other physically.

My 6 year old hasn't been around other classmates in nearly a year, so yes, I'd be happy to have my children in a classroom, even if it wasn't with their "regular" teacher. I'm not looking for day care.... I'm looking for my child to stop saying their best friend is a stuffed animal.

---

Your kid isn't going to become a serial killer because he missed a year of school.

If you think social interaction is important then form a playgroup with other like-minded parents. Your kid must have had some friends prior to this pandemic.

If your kid is JUST entering school for the first time and has no playmates then he/she won't know the difference.

I get it if this was to be the new norm, but it's not. This will pass and your kid won't be any worse for wear.

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

---

This is exactly what I've thought for the past year - "just wait a few months." But the months turn into more months, and more months, and now we're at a year. From what I'm hearing, CA public schools might not even have in-person classes in Fall '21.

So should CA parents just wait 2 years to be offered in-person school? At some point, enough is enough. All the other states in our country have figured out how to offer some in-person classes. All the local private and parochial schools offer in-person classes. Why can't we figure out how to offer some in-person class for CA public school families who want it?

I honestly think it's going to take a lawsuit to kick start some action, because there's no will by any of the parties in California who have power to make this happen.

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

I can't control what other people think. My position is that elementary schools should be open, and I would take action to support that. If not enough other people have come around to my position for school reopening to be possible, so be it. I think they're wrong, but so be it.

---

My position is that I should have a pony.

---

I also have to say that I find your framing of the issue here a bit disturbing. When did a decent public education become a "pony?" This is schooling our tax dollars are meant to pay for. You have the nerve to ask why we don't just educate our kids ourselves. Because that's not part of the social contract, that's why.

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

---

This is exactly what I've thought for the past year - "just wait a few months." But the months turn into more months, and more months, and now we're at a year. From what I'm hearing, CA public schools might not even have in-person classes in Fall '21.

So should CA parents just wait 2 years to be offered in-person school? At some point, enough is enough. All the other states in our country have figured out how to offer some in-person classes. All the local private and parochial schools offer in-person classes. Why can't we figure out how to offer some in-person class for CA public school families who want it?

I honestly think it's going to take a lawsuit to kick start some action, because there's no will by any of the parties in California who have power to make this happen.

---

Let's be more specific.

Your kid missed 2 or maybe 3 months out of the last school year and now all of this one. That's not 2 years of instruction, especially given that there has been distance learning.

Anyway, it's a school year and some change - not 2 years.

All things considered:

Big deal.

That's why there's no hue and cry. It's not some politically motivated conspiracy against you and your kid. Lots of people are suffering and their lifestyles have been altered.

You are already halfway through the school year. Do you think going back to school in March is going to make some huge difference?

There might even be benefits to it downstream that you have not appreciated. When your kid enters the global workforce and telecommutes to work it will all seem very normal to him/her.

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

---

This is exactly what I've thought for the past year - "just wait a few months." But the months turn into more months, and more months, and now we're at a year. From what I'm hearing, CA public schools might not even have in-person classes in Fall '21.

So should CA parents just wait 2 years to be offered in-person school? At some point, enough is enough. All the other states in our country have figured out how to offer some in-person classes. All the local private and parochial schools offer in-person classes. Why can't we figure out how to offer some in-person class for CA public school families who want it?

I honestly think it's going to take a lawsuit to kick start some action, because there's no will by any of the parties in California who have power to make this happen.

---

Let's be more specific.

Your kid missed 2 or maybe 3 months out of the last school year and now all of this one. That's not 2 years of instruction, especially given that there has been distance learning.

Anyway, it's a school year and some change - not 2 years.

All things considered:

Big deal.

That's why there's no hue and cry. It's not some politically motivated conspiracy against you and your kid. Lots of people are suffering and their lifestyles have been altered.

You are already halfway through the school year. Do you think going back to school in March is going to make some huge difference?

There might even be benefits to it downstream that you have not appreciated. When your kid enters the global workforce and telecommutes to work it will all seem very normal to him/her.

---

Let's enter some actual data into this discussion. Studies indicate that prolonged loss of schooling (especially among younger children) will have long-lasting negative effects on average.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/21/21223585/school-closure-impact-students-children

https://www.educationnext.org/price-students-pay-when-schools-are-closed/

https://voxeu.org/article/long-term-effects-school-closures

That's what I'm worried about, for my kid and all the other kids his age.

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

---

This is exactly what I've thought for the past year - "just wait a few months." But the months turn into more months, and more months, and now we're at a year. From what I'm hearing, CA public schools might not even have in-person classes in Fall '21.

So should CA parents just wait 2 years to be offered in-person school? At some point, enough is enough. All the other states in our country have figured out how to offer some in-person classes. All the local private and parochial schools offer in-person classes. Why can't we figure out how to offer some in-person class for CA public school families who want it?

I honestly think it's going to take a lawsuit to kick start some action, because there's no will by any of the parties in California who have power to make this happen.

---

Let's be more specific.

Your kid missed 2 or maybe 3 months out of the last school year and now all of this one. That's not 2 years of instruction, especially given that there has been distance learning.

Anyway, it's a school year and some change - not 2 years.

All things considered:

Big deal.

That's why there's no hue and cry. It's not some politically motivated conspiracy against you and your kid. Lots of people are suffering and their lifestyles have been altered.

You are already halfway through the school year. Do you think going back to school in March is going to make some huge difference?

There might even be benefits to it downstream that you have not appreciated. When your kid enters the global workforce and telecommutes to work it will all seem very normal to him/her.

---

Let's enter some actual data into this discussion. Studies indicate that prolonged loss of schooling (especially among younger children) will have long-lasting negative effects on average.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/21/21223585/school-closure-impact-students-children

https://www.educationnext.org/price-students-pay-when-schools-are-closed/

https://voxeu.org/article/long-term-effects-school-closures

That's what I'm worried about, for my kid and all the other kids his age.

---

Except schools are not closed!

dimitrig said:

---

sycasey said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

75bear said:

---

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, we've thought about all 3 of those options. We're fortunate that we can even consider some of them. I'm sick to my stomach that 97% of families in our district and other similar ones in CA don't have the option to do any of the 3 ideas you mention.

---

There is another option which is to just wait another few months until schools open again...

It's not like this is some permanent condition.

---

This is exactly what I've thought for the past year - "just wait a few months." But the months turn into more months, and more months, and now we're at a year. From what I'm hearing, CA public schools might not even have in-person classes in Fall '21.

So should CA parents just wait 2 years to be offered in-person school? At some point, enough is enough. All the other states in our country have figured out how to offer some in-person classes. All the local private and parochial schools offer in-person classes. Why can't we figure out how to offer some in-person class for CA public school families who want it?

I honestly think it's going to take a lawsuit to kick start some action, because there's no will by any of the parties in California who have power to make this happen.

---

Let's be more specific.

Your kid missed 2 or maybe 3 months out of the last school year and now all of this one. That's not 2 years of instruction, especially given that there has been distance learning.

Anyway, it's a school year and some change - not 2 years.

All things considered:

Big deal.

That's why there's no hue and cry. It's not some politically motivated conspiracy against you and your kid. Lots of people are suffering and their lifestyles have been altered.

You are already halfway through the school year. Do you think going back to school in March is going to make some huge difference?

There might even be benefits to it downstream that you have not appreciated. When your kid enters the global workforce and telecommutes to work it will all seem very normal to him/her.

---

Let's enter some actual data into this discussion. Studies indicate that prolonged loss of schooling (especially among younger children) will have long-lasting negative effects on average.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/21/21223585/school-closure-impact-students-children

https://www.educationnext.org/price-students-pay-when-schools-are-closed/

https://voxeu.org/article/long-term-effects-school-closures

That's what I'm worried about, for my kid and all the other kids his age.

---

Except schools are not closed!

---

This is addressed in the articles. The studies find that distance learning is no substitute, especially for younger children. These negative effects will linger.

Teachers should be offered vaccinations well before schools open. Every reasonable effort should be made to make the conditions at school as safe as possible (including operating at 50% capacity, initially). Most teachers will want to return, under this scenario. If a teacher has a documented underlying condition, maybe they get an option to teach the kids whose parents want them to remain in distance learning. Still short of teachers? Vaccinate me and I will unretire for a few months. (They can thank me by naming one of those SF schools after me!)

Most of the world agrees that having kids in school is important. Studies have shown that schools have not been major transmitters of the virus, especially the younger grades. Last March-April and the past three months may have been bad times to have kids in school in California because COVID was rising dramatically, but it's coming down now and will keep doing so as more and more people develop immunity (from the vaccine or actually having had the virus).

Let's do this.

This thread is like every social interaction I was forced to endure last summer. In New Jersey, school districts were given great leeway. That allowed every parent to become a master second guesser over everything our district was planning.

Our district planned every day elementary attendance and rotating days for middle and high school. Families could opt for every day remote and IEP kids could opt for every day in class. Everybody at school wears a mask. Very complicated very confusing. Everybody had an opinion. It made having conversations in the community a total bore because everybody was an expert and everybody predicted doom and gloom.
I was skeptical too. The district was trying to do the best it could in an uncertain and dangerous situation.

It has worked out very well. Studies show open schools don't lead to an increase in infections.

dajo said:

---

Studies show open schools don't lead to an increase in infections.

---

The data seems to show that this is true for elementary schools, although not for high schools and colleges. In fact, young adults are linked to more spreading events than any other age group.

That is not to say that little kids (under 12) don't contract COVID and give it to other people. They do. They just do so at a lower rate than older kids and adults do

However, no one has a good explanation for why this would be so. There are some guesses and there are some theories, but there is no real science behind it. It's just what has been observed and there's still not a lot of data available.

When infection surges in the community at large, it surges in schools as well. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that parents may prefer to keep their kids home and staff may prefer to stay home as well.

My stance in this thread is that I don't think it is fair to force teachers back to school just because some fraction of parents (generally about half when school districts have given a choice to parents) want to send their kids to school.

If enough of the faculty and staff relative to the number of children desires to return to school then go ahead and open up, but that should be the driver until more faculty and staff can be vaccinated - not the desires of pushy parents.

Looks like there is some groundswell of public pressure starting up. Here's an article about it:

dimitrig said:

---

dajo said:

---

Studies show open schools don't lead to an increase in infections.

---

The data seems to show that this is true for elementary schools, although not for high schools and colleges. In fact, young adults are linked to more spreading events than any other age group.

That is not to say that little kids (under 12) don't contract COVID and give it to other people. They do. They just do so at a lower rate than older kids and adults do

However, no one has a good explanation for why this would be so. There are some guesses and there are some theories, but there is no real science behind it. It's just what has been observed and there's still not a lot of data available.

When infection surges in the community at large, it surges in schools as well. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that parents may prefer to keep their kids home and staff may prefer to stay home as well.

My stance in this thread is that I don't think it is fair to force teachers back to school just because some fraction of parents (generally about half when school districts have given a choice to parents) want to send their kids to school.

If enough of the faculty and staff relative to the number of children desires to return to school then go ahead and open up, but that should be the driver until more faculty and staff can be vaccinated - not the desires of pushy parents.

---

Teachers and staff that work at schools that are planning to reopen should go to the front of the vaccination lines.

In my near-20 years of teaching, I certainly encountered the occasional parent that was unreasonable and a complete "PITA". That said, the vast majority were quite reasonable and most supportive. While parents may need to defer to health professionals and education professionals, if they seem "pushy", we all need to realize that they are stakeholders in the education process.

dimitrig said:

---

dajo said:

---

Studies show open schools don't lead to an increase in infections.

---

The data seems to show that this is true for elementary schools, although not for high schools and colleges. In fact, young adults are linked to more spreading events than any other age group.

That is not to say that little kids (under 12) don't contract COVID and give it to other people. They do. They just do so at a lower rate than older kids and adults do

However, no one has a good explanation for why this would be so. There are some guesses and there are some theories, but there is no real science behind it. It's just what has been observed and there's still not a lot of data available.

When infection surges in the community at large, it surges in schools as well. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that parents may prefer to keep their kids home and staff may prefer to stay home as well.

My stance in this thread is that I don't think it is fair to force teachers back to school just because some fraction of parents (generally about half when school districts have given a choice to parents) want to send their kids to school.

If enough of the faculty and staff relative to the number of children desires to return to school then go ahead and open up, but that should be the driver until more faculty and staff can be vaccinated - not the desires of pushy parents.

---

I'm not sure if you're referring to me when you say pushy parents. But I agree with you that any teacher that doesn't want to teach in-person shouldn't be forced to. At some point in the future (when vaccinations have been offered, numbers are low, etc) all teachers will have to go back to the classroom or else look for another job. But that won't be until the Fall or even 2022. I just don't understand why in the meantime we can't have teachers and kids who want to be in-person do that and teachers and kids who want to distance learn do that. Seems like a perfect solution for everyone... a win-win.

We also seem to agree that elementary schools are lower risk. So I'm not sure if we're talking past each other, or if you just place low value on in-person education, or if it's something else.

Are you a teacher? Parent? Other? You don't have to answer, but I'm just curious where your perspective comes from.

Big C said:

---

Teachers should be offered vaccinations well before schools open. Every reasonable effort should be made to make the conditions at school as safe as possible (including operating at 50% capacity, initially). Most teachers will want to return, under this scenario. If a teacher has a documented underlying condition, maybe they get an option to teach the kids whose parents want them to remain in distance learning. Still short of teachers? Vaccinate me and I will unretire for a few months. (They can thank me by naming one of those SF schools after me!)

Most of the world agrees that having kids in school is important. Studies have shown that schools have not been major transmitters of the virus, especially the younger grades. Last March-April and the past three months may have been bad times to have kids in school in California because COVID was rising dramatically, but it's coming down now and will keep doing so as more and more people develop immunity (from the vaccine or actually having had the virus).

Let's do this.

---

Thank you for your very positive message, Big C. And more importantly, thank you for your many years of service as a teacher!

Kids -school shopping ? Clothes & Backpacks it's not July/Aug

I know some parents don't have the time or money to prepare kids to attend in class sessions for 2-3 months ...

Just a thought

Anarchistbear said:

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Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

---

Washington Football Team High School.
Oh wait. Washington had slaves.

Football team high school.
Oh wait. Football causes CTE brain damage.

Team high school.

dajo9 said:

---

This thread is like every social interaction I was forced to endure last summer. In New Jersey, school districts were given great leeway. That allowed every parent to become a master second guesser over everything our district was planning.

Our district planned every day elementary attendance and rotating days for middle and high school. Families could opt for every day remote and IEP kids could opt for every day in class. Everybody at school wears a mask. Very complicated very confusing. Everybody had an opinion. It made having conversations in the community a total bore because everybody was an expert and everybody predicted doom and gloom.
I was skeptical too. The district was trying to do the best it could in an uncertain and dangerous situation.

It has worked out very well. Studies show open schools don't lead to an increase in infections.

---

My wife and I are party poopers. We are opting to school remote from home. And we don't want them going to large parties like Halloween or New Years.

But other groups of their friends have had blowouts and then a bunch of them come down with the virus at these spreader events.

The kids don't die, but they surely pass it on to others and others and others, and somewhere down the line a grandparent dies.

We are doing our wartime part to keep the BF2's, Hanky's, and Minots of the world alive so they can watch foxnews and tell me I'm dumb and wrong and that the virus is a hoax designed to ruin Trump.

Well, he's out of office, but my kids are still home.
Enjoy you day, folks.

dimitrig said:

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sycasey said:

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I support schools giving parents a choice on whether or not to return to physical school.

I would send mine to school.

---

Do the teachers/aides/etc also get a choice?

What if your child's teacher chooses not to?

---

I am sure they favor having 30 kids breathe on them for 45 minutes, then rotate a new block of kids for period 2, then again for period 3, and so on.