Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

117,492 Views | 2424 Replies | Last: 14 hrs ago by Unit2Sucks
BearForce2
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oski003
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"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

dimitrig
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oski003 said:

"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

Honest question:

Is it a problem for antibodies to drop in the absence of infection? I would expect them to drop.

The idea behind the vaccines is that they prime our bodies to produce antibodies more quickly, no?



sycasey
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dimitrig said:

oski003 said:

"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

Honest question:

Is it a problem for antibodies to drop in the absence of infection? I would expect them to drop.

The idea behind the vaccines is that they prime our bodies to produce antibodies more quickly, no?

From what I understand, yes, that's exactly right. Antibodies will always drop over time. The important thing is that your cells remember the infection and how to fight it next time. Lowers your risk by a lot.
oski003
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dimitrig said:

oski003 said:

"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

Honest question:

Is it a problem for antibodies to drop in the absence of infection? I would expect them to drop.

The idea behind the vaccines is that they prime our bodies to produce antibodies more quickly, no?




I agree that the vaccines offer much longer protection against the secondary but incredibly important endpoint of protecting against severe disease. I just don't like how other safer vaccine technologies were shelved allegedly because of the antibodies produced by Pfizer and Moderna's mRNA vaccines. These vaccines pack a punch and aren't protecting against infection for very long. They definitely work better than no vaccine and no previous exposure. They've saved lives.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

dimitrig said:

oski003 said:

"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

Honest question:

Is it a problem for antibodies to drop in the absence of infection? I would expect them to drop.

The idea behind the vaccines is that they prime our bodies to produce antibodies more quickly, no?




I agree that the vaccines offer much longer protection against the secondary but incredibly important endpoint of protecting against severe disease. I just don't like how other safer vaccine technologies were shelved allegedly because of the antibodies produced by Pfizer and Moderna's mRNA vaccines. These vaccines pack a punch and aren't protecting against infection for very long. They definitely work better than no vaccine and no previous exposure. They've saved lives.

So is your premise that other vaccines would prevent infection any better than the current ones? Given how transmissible Omicron has proven to be, I'm skeptical of that.
oski003
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

dimitrig said:

oski003 said:

"Pfizer's Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds."

"antibodies detected in participants' blood dropped "rapidly" from 76% four weeks after the second shot to 53% at weeks eight to 10 and 19% at weeks 12 to 14, the researchers found."

Get ready for more call outs from work because of fourth dose side effects from intolerant mRNA vaccines. Go big pharma. Thanks for allowing one single covid vaccine platform (a tech approved for the first time ever because of an emergency pandemic) in the United States.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2022/05/13/pfizers-covid-vaccine-protection-against-omicron-fades-just-weeks-after-second-and-third-doses-study-finds/?sh=7984125332af

Honest question:

Is it a problem for antibodies to drop in the absence of infection? I would expect them to drop.

The idea behind the vaccines is that they prime our bodies to produce antibodies more quickly, no?




I agree that the vaccines offer much longer protection against the secondary but incredibly important endpoint of protecting against severe disease. I just don't like how other safer vaccine technologies were shelved allegedly because of the antibodies produced by Pfizer and Moderna's mRNA vaccines. These vaccines pack a punch and aren't protecting against infection for very long. They definitely work better than no vaccine and no previous exposure. They've saved lives.

So is your premise that other vaccines would prevent infection any better than the current ones? Given how transmissible Omicron has proven to be, I'm skeptical of that.


No, other vaccine techs are
1) Safer;
2) More Tolerable; and
3) More durable.

The misleading statements and biased decisions by our former FDA leaders, who now work for bio hedge funds, seed funds, or big pharma, has increased vaccine hesitancy, despite the prevailing view of vocal BI of the vaccine hesitant as deplorable and anti-science. When JnJ had transverse myelitis in their P3, they should have been shut down. However, America needed a one shot vaccine and JnJ claimed it worked and was safe. It is not.
Moderna shot two has moderate to severe side effects in a majority of people getting it with the occasional very serious lasting side effects, such as what happened to Maddie Gray. Efficiency, which has been exaggerated, was measured in two dose regimens (fully vaccinwted).
Side effects data was broken down per dose. Oh, it is safe because this only happens per 100,00 doses!
Well, buckwheat, you need two doses to be protected.
therefore, it happens per every 50,000. Peoplee need a choice and proper warnings, especially after the first two doses. Instead, we have only mRNA in the United State almost three years after Covid originated. Instead, we have created people who are injured and we have increased distrust and vaccine hesitancy. And, yes, I believe mRNA vax cause more myocarditis than the other techs because I believe the vax transfection is not just local to the skin and muscles like vaccines are supposed to be. I believe spike protein gets to the heart and liver.
Unit2Sucks
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A lot of misinformation and conspiracy theorizing when the real problem is that Novavax couldn't solve its production problems. They either needed to figure it out like Moderna or partner with a company that knew how to get things done like Biontech did with Pfizer. This hasn't helped with 003's investment in Novavax stock but it's reality.

We needed vaccines we could get in massive amounts and that we could trust in early 2021. The makers who showed up saved hundreds of thousands of American lives and. I'll ions worldwide. Novavax showed up a day late and a buck short.

Sounds like Novavax has figured it out and is able to produce enough doses for us to get a sense as to how safe and effective it really is in the real world with Omicron. Hopefully it lives up to promise and they can ship hundreds of millions of doses if and when we need another booster.

For me personally, I have no plans to get another booster. If circumstances change or my schedule requires me to travel for an extended period, I would likely boost as a precautionary measure. Ditto if a new strain comes out with a more dangerous profile and a booster would help. Otherwise, I haven't seen any reason to boost right now.
oski003
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The *******s gave it all to Pfizer and JnJ so the U.S. can be oversupplied with soon to be expiring vaccines.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-launch-public-private-partnership-speed-covid-19-vaccine-treatment-options

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/barda-emergent-biosolutions-reach-628m-contract-to-manufacture-covid-19-vaccine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/news/india/serums-adar-poonawalla-urges-joe-biden-lift-embargo-on-covid-vaccine-raw-material-exports/amp-11618568692382.html
oski003
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NEW: FDA authorized Covid booster dose for young kids without convening their external expert panel.



Last time the expert panel presented data, commentary & voted on the first booster rollout, there was a damning 16-2 vote of 'NO' to approve boosters for 16+ yrs, other than elderly & immunocompromised
I guess that's why they canned the committee meeting this time.
oski003
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The greedy ****s at Pfizer care more about money than actually helping people, per the usual.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18/pfizer-s-tight-paxlovid-rein-stymies-drug-combination-research?s=07

They did this same thing to shut down covid vaccine competition. Neither Pfizer nor Moderna would let their vaccines be used in comparison trials. ****ing *******s and the ugly politicians who help them.
smh
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here's the best OT covid thread, soooo..

Title: too many Americans are still in covid denial
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/19/covid-million-americans-dead-complacency-ideology

byline Michael Gerson (old school Republican / covid survivor)
Quote:

When Johns Hopkins University announced that the United States had surpassed 1 million deaths from covid-19, I was recovering from my first (and hopefully last) bout of the disease. I had prepared as much as I could shout-out to Pfizer so the infection passed like a nasty flu. Earlier in the crisis, an immunocompromised man in his late 50s, as I am, might have ended up in the hospital, on a ventilator, a coin flip away from eternity.

In a way, I now feel more connected with people whose lives have been touched by covid. But of course, many lives have not been just touched but crushed by the disease. The cost of 1 million friends and relatives lost during the past 27 months resists summary and comparison. There is no adequate scale on which to measure this mass of grief..

..Now imagine yourself part of a country seeking to help the United States with its covid-19 crisis. You are trying to deliver a miraculous vaccine that deters most infection and nearly guarantees freedom from severe disease. The key, as always, is adherence. But there is a powerful Red Faction dominant in much of the country that is partial to quack treatments, distrustful of modern medicine and resistant to vaccines (and mask-wearing) as a point of political pride.

Surely, over time, the Red Faction would witness the health benefits of three or four jabs of a needle. Surely it would refuse to take health advice from wacko politicians and unreliable community healers. Surely the stigma would fade as the vaccine proved safe and effective. But no..

Does this Red Faction have contempt for its elders, as indicated by who has taken the brunt of the casualties?

Is this country prepared for any crisis requiring communal action?

There is another question that seems the most unexpected, at least to me. Since death rates for vaccinated people are fully 20 times lower than than for the unvaccinated, what force, what faith, what ideology has led a large portion of the country to live so recklessly? We are dealing with a form of polarization that is stronger than self-preservation a kind of populism that causes populists to die.

Yet most Americans still float down covid river, living in denial of the rocks ahead: new variants, long covid, continuing deaths. Who would have predicted that so many people's response to an existential crisis should be folk cures and complacency.
muting 174 handles, turnaround is fair play
Unit2Sucks
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Over 300,000 American lives would have been saved if more people had been vaccinated.

Quote:

NPR examined COVID deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which most Americans could find a vaccine if they wanted one. Those living in counties that voted 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.26 times the death rate of those that went by the same margin for Biden. Counties with a higher share of Trump votes had even higher mortality rates.

The scale of the preventable loss of life is staggering. According to a recent analysis by Brown University, nearly 320,000 lives nationwide could have been saved if more people had chosen to get vaccinated. The Brown analysis also shows a partisan split in how those preventable deaths are distributed. States that went most heavily for Trump including Wyoming and West Virginia have among the highest rates of preventable deaths, while states that voted heavily for Biden such as Massachusetts and Vermont had among the lowest.

"How you vote should not predict whether you die of COVID," says Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Brown University School of Public Health. The social causes of the divide are complex, but the immediate reason is dead simple: Trump-leaning counties have far lower vaccination rates than those that went for President Biden. NPR's analysis showed that the gap was 21 points, with 81% of adults vaccinated in heavily-Biden counties compared to 60% of adults in counties that went for Trump.

According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals are 10 times less likely to die from a COVID-19 infection than the unvaccinated.

Nuzzo says she sees the partisan divide in COVID deaths as one of the major failures of public health messaging in this pandemic. "Public health advice about vaccines often says, 'Talk to your doctor,'" Nuzzo says. But many people don't have one.
Sebastabear
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Unit2Sucks said:

Over 300,000 American lives would have been saved if more people had been vaccinated.

Quote:

NPR examined COVID deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which most Americans could find a vaccine if they wanted one. Those living in counties that voted 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.26 times the death rate of those that went by the same margin for Biden. Counties with a higher share of Trump votes had even higher mortality rates.

The scale of the preventable loss of life is staggering. According to a recent analysis by Brown University, nearly 320,000 lives nationwide could have been saved if more people had chosen to get vaccinated. The Brown analysis also shows a partisan split in how those preventable deaths are distributed. States that went most heavily for Trump including Wyoming and West Virginia have among the highest rates of preventable deaths, while states that voted heavily for Biden such as Massachusetts and Vermont had among the lowest.

"How you vote should not predict whether you die of COVID," says Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Brown University School of Public Health. The social causes of the divide are complex, but the immediate reason is dead simple: Trump-leaning counties have far lower vaccination rates than those that went for President Biden. NPR's analysis showed that the gap was 21 points, with 81% of adults vaccinated in heavily-Biden counties compared to 60% of adults in counties that went for Trump.

According to the CDC, vaccinated individuals are 10 times less likely to die from a COVID-19 infection than the unvaccinated.

Nuzzo says she sees the partisan divide in COVID deaths as one of the major failures of public health messaging in this pandemic. "Public health advice about vaccines often says, 'Talk to your doctor,'" Nuzzo says. But many people don't have one.

I've long felt that one of America's greatest strengths is it's relentless focus on its weakness. We are, hands down, the most self-critical people on the planet. Go to the least developed parts of Europe or Asia or South America and talk to them. They would never in a million years say the stuff about their country that Americans say about the U..S. every day. Even if by every objective measurement they are poorer, weaker and less educated than we are.

I think this is why the rest of the world has a somewhat distorted and negative view of the U.S. They read what we say about ourselves continuously and think this place must be a complete disaster. Even though our military could literally take on the rest of the world and win, our healthcare system is the one the wealthiest people in the world seek out when they are sick and our economy is the largest and most successful in the history of the planet,

But sometimes this self criticism and analysis goes haywire. We are trained to question and challenge everything and believe that's our God given right and even duty. But when you question the worth of a vaccine that was essentially a miracle to the extent you won't take it even to save your own life, you aren't being a good American. You are just being an idiot.
MinotStateBeav
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Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Sebastabear
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MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Unit2Sucks
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Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.


I love when conservatives like Minot bring up that at some point Kamala was skeptical of the vaccine because she didn't trust Trump. Minot is proudly unvaxxed and should be thankful for Kamala inspiring him but instead he criticizes her. Or wait, could it be, just maybe, that conservatives (who make up the vast majority of unvaccinated adults) don't actually base their decisions off a thing that Kamala said that they wouldn't even know existed other than from right wing hit pieces.

Kamala eventually became satisfied that Trump wasn't pushing through unsafe vaccines on his own and supported vaccination efforts. Those efforts saved hundreds of thousands of lives. But still the disingenuous campaign continues.
oski003
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Long but informative, even if you disagree with it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/?fbclid=IwAR0wdNKLT7dTU_grp25QIjVGaoRL4_9Ij0jkWP7V5DJ_VEcpY78e7Z2ZZyc
BearForce2
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Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
AunBear89
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And yet both are fully vaxxed and encourage others to do the same.

Maybe you don't understand the term "anti vaccine" - we will add to the very long list.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
BearNIt
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BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.
BearForce2
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BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what vaccines do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.

Monkeypox is coming and they will use that to control people because it sounds scarier.
AunBear89
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
BearNIt
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BearForce2 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what vaccines do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.

Monkeypox is coming and they will use that to control people because it sounds scarier.
Because the government doesn't have enough to do with COVID, Baby formula, Ukraine, the stock market, inflation, and fending off the crazies that want to destroy Democracy and our Republic. *** are you talking about?
MinotStateBeav
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BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what vaccines do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.

Monkeypox is coming and they will use that to control people because it sounds scarier.
Because the government doesn't have enough to do with COVID, Baby formula, Ukraine, the stock market, inflation, and fending off the crazies that want to destroy Democracy and our Republic. *** are you talking about?
"Baby Formula shortage, stock market crashing, inflation, fending off the crazies" yep sounds like a democrat administration is in office.
AunBear89
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MinotStateBeav said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what vaccines do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.

Monkeypox is coming and they will use that to control people because it sounds scarier.
Because the government doesn't have enough to do with COVID, Baby formula, Ukraine, the stock market, inflation, and fending off the crazies that want to destroy Democracy and our Republic. *** are you talking about?
"Baby Formula shortage, stock market crashing, inflation, fending off the crazies" yep sounds like a democrat administration is cleaning up after a Republican administration.


FIFY
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
calbear93
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BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.
Most people are vaccinated and boosted so we need to stop focusing on case count and more on hospitalization and death. If the spike in hospitalization and death rates is as before, the vaccine does not work. But I believe it does, so I am not fearful that COVID spike this fall as people travel more will be a return of full hospital beds and people dying left and right similar to 2020. I am fully vaccinated with two boosters, keep myself in good shape, eat clean, etc. I am not afraid of COVID or what the spike will do to availability in hospital. Yes, COVID still is a ***** even for those vaccinated but people I know who were vaccinated and had COVID didn't go to the hospital and recovered after three or four days of brutal fatigue.

At least where I live, vaccination rate is closing in on almost 90%. We need to trust science and trust the vaccine. But we also need to stop shaming people who choose not to get vaccinated.

Yes, it is baffling why there are people who choose not to get vaccinated. But there are those who allow themselves to get obese, those who smoke, those who do drugs, those who drink too much, does who smoke pot, etc. So be it. People are free to risk harming their health or risking death. And most of us have moved on from the fallacy that those unvaccinated are killing us or spreading COVID.

I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
I don't disagree that the vaccine is not very effective over time on infection, but they should be effective in preventing serious cases that require hospitalization or death. Otherwise, vaccine doesn't work. I believe it does.

Almost everyone around me other than my family has had COVID. Fully aware that it is still a pain. But it is a choice between risking that pain vs. limiting my life. It is always a balancing act, with different people having different risk calculation.

For me with no young kids now, I am fully back to travelling, dinner out with my friends, and even training martial arts again. If I get it, I will stay isolated for a week, but I trust science and the vaccine that it will protect me. But if I am not at high risk of severe illness from COVID, I would rather live my life as before.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
I don't disagree that the vaccine is not very effective over time on infection, but they should be effective in preventing serious cases that require hospitalization or death. Otherwise, vaccine doesn't work. I believe it does.

Almost everyone around me other than my family has had COVID. Fully aware that it is still a pain. But it is a choice between risking that pain vs. limiting my life. It is always a balancing act, with different people having different risk calculation.

For me with no young kids now, I am fully back to travelling, dinner out with my friends, and even training martial arts again. If I get it, I will stay isolated for a week, but I trust science and the vaccine that it will protect me. But if I am not at high risk of severe illness from COVID, I would rather live my life as before.
Yes it sounds like you have a different set of tradeoffs but again it's not about fear. You're retired and seem to be balancing personal health with life enjoyment. Other people have to balance financial and economic well-being or other factors as well. Keeping my kids in school is of paramount importance and to keep them in school they have to be COVID free. It's not the end of the world if I have to miss time to care for a sick child but I would prefer not to. For people with hourly comp, COVID could be costly indeed.

The issue I have is with the narrative that "fear" is driving decision making rather than people rationally taking stock of their situation and making the best decision for themselves. Are there some people making irrational decisions? Certainly, both in taking extreme precautions or exposing themselves needlessly to risk. But at this point I know better than to second guess most people who have had 2+ years to figure out where they want to be on the risk curve.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
Not disagreeing with your prudence here, but in fairness I would also note that in some cases this prudence is simply being forced more by overly cautious COVID policies than the actual danger posed to anyone involved.

I'll just provide my own example: I have one kid in first grade in public school, another three-year-old in a private nursery school, and since the oldest is on the spectrum he's supposed to get behavioral therapists coming to work with him several times a week.

The COVID rules are completely different for these three organizations. The public schools stayed closed/remote longer (too long IMO), but since they've been back they say your kid can go to school even with minor symptoms, as long as you have a negative test. The private nursery school wants a negative test AND for the kid to be symptom-free for at least 24 hours before returning. Practically speaking, this pretty much means my kid is missing minimum two days as soon as she has a sniffle. The therapy specialists, meanwhile, need negative tests AND a doctor's confirmation AND for everyone in the house to be symptom free before they'll send someone over (this despite the fact that all the specialists are vaccinated). This basically means my kid hasn't gotten any behavioral therapy in the last three weeks as colds (not COVID) have cycled through various members of the household.

This makes it pretty much impossible for my wife and I to keep consistent schedules. I want to be careful, but in all honesty jumping through these hoops makes me want to say "f*** it" and have no restrictions at all. Adults can get vaxxed and kids under five are at very low risk. Who are we protecting?
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
Not disagreeing with your prudence here, but in fairness I would also note that in some cases this prudence is simply being forced more by overly cautious COVID policies than the actual danger posed to anyone involved.

I'll just provide my own example: I have one kid in first grade in public school, another three-year-old in a private nursery school, and since the oldest is on the spectrum he's supposed to get behavioral therapists coming to work with him several times a week.

The COVID rules are completely different for these three organizations. The public schools stayed closed/remote longer (too long IMO), but since they've been back they say your kid can go to school even with minor symptoms, as long as you have a negative test. The private nursery school wants a negative test AND for the kid to be symptom-free for at least 24 hours before returning. Practically speaking, this pretty much means my kid is missing minimum two days as soon as she has a sniffle. The therapy specialists, meanwhile, need negative tests AND a doctor's confirmation AND for everyone in the house to be symptom free before they'll send someone over (this despite the fact that all the specialists are vaccinated). This basically means my kid hasn't gotten any behavioral therapy in the last three weeks as colds (not COVID) have cycled through various members of the household.

This makes it pretty much impossible for my wife and I to keep consistent schedules. I want to be careful, but in all honesty jumping through these hoops makes me want to say "f*** it" and have no restrictions at all. Adults can get vaxxed and kids under five are at very low risk. Who are we protecting?
Yes, I think you are taking a different lens to the issue. You and I have similar reasons to be very careful not to get COVID as it would be disruptive to your entire family.

Talking about what policies institutions should have right now is a whole other story. My school until a few weeks ago required vaccination card + negative PCR test within 72 hours to attend a 15 minute event at school which is why I have not been attending any events. My wife and I skipped a few events recently because we weren't willing to go get multiple PCR tests in order to walk around the classroom. They've since updated the policy to only require vaccine + negative antigen test which is a lot easier.
Zippergate
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Paul Marik, second most cited ICU doctor in the world

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1529440539472302080/pu/vid/880x496/JfzFu06SlZQydSvi.mp4?tag=14

"This is a humanitarian crisis"
"crime against humanity"

Said nothing about the phony COVID vaccine efficacy data or the fraudulent vaccine clinical trials but I'm sure he could have.

Now go get another booster because the vaxx has compromised your immunity.
Unit2Sucks
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Zippergate said:

Paul Marik, second most cited ICU doctor in the world

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1529440539472302080/pu/vid/880x496/JfzFu06SlZQydSvi.mp4?tag=14

"This is a humanitarian crisis"
"crime against humanity"

Said nothing about the phony COVID vaccine efficacy data or the fraudulent vaccine clinical trials but I'm sure he could have.

Now go get another booster because the vaxx has compromised your immunity.
hahahaha. Are you still pushing last year's Ivermectin scam? Haven't the grifters moved on to new ones? I hear forsythia is the best.
calbear93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

BearNIt said:

BearForce2 said:

Sebastabear said:

MinotStateBeav said:

Kamala Harris while running to be VP..
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
Stupidity doesn't care what your party affiliation is. Nor does the disease.
Both Biden and Kamala were anti-vaxxers.
I would hope that responsible person would do their due diligence before taking any new medication to see if that medication is right for them. If you choose not to get the vaccine nor mask when appropriate then hold on to your sack as the virus will continue to mutate because that's what viruses do. The fall is coming and we are going to see increases in infections and those that are not vaccinated and refuse to wear a mask are going to wish they had done both. Hospitals aren't relaxing as if COVID is over, they are preparing for the fall.


I personally am done with fear tactics on COVID. I will get boosters whenever CDC recommends another, but I am living my life without fear of COVID irrespective of whether someone chooses not to be vaccinated or what the case rate is.
I don't think "fear" is the right lens to look at things through. The reason certain elements brought "fear" into the equation is because they equate toughness with strength.

I'm still very concerned about COVID because it has a potential to impact my life and those around me if I'm not careful. My daughter missed a school camping trip due to a positive COVID test which we believe was a false positive. Nonetheless she missed almost a week of school and we had to protect my other kid so he wouldn't miss school. Similarly, we have to protect our elderly parents who otherwise enjoy spending time with the kid. We also carpool with one kid for soccer practices which potentially exposes 2 other families to whatever my family has (and vice versa) in addition to what happens at school.

I would also note that I've seen both vaccinated and unvaccinated family members suffer hard cases of Omicron recently. A 30 year old vaccinated and boosted family member is on week 3 of her infection and still having nasty headaches which makes it impossible for her to concentrate or work. An unvaccinated family member had Omicron in January, lost half her hair and is still struggling with brain fog 5 months later.

Having a positive test result brings a number of repercussions that I would like to avoid. I consider taking health precautions to be prudent not fearful.
Not disagreeing with your prudence here, but in fairness I would also note that in some cases this prudence is simply being forced more by overly cautious COVID policies than the actual danger posed to anyone involved.

I'll just provide my own example: I have one kid in first grade in public school, another three-year-old in a private nursery school, and since the oldest is on the spectrum he's supposed to get behavioral therapists coming to work with him several times a week.

The COVID rules are completely different for these three organizations. The public schools stayed closed/remote longer (too long IMO), but since they've been back they say your kid can go to school even with minor symptoms, as long as you have a negative test. The private nursery school wants a negative test AND for the kid to be symptom-free for at least 24 hours before returning. Practically speaking, this pretty much means my kid is missing minimum two days as soon as she has a sniffle. The therapy specialists, meanwhile, need negative tests AND a doctor's confirmation AND for everyone in the house to be symptom free before they'll send someone over (this despite the fact that all the specialists are vaccinated). This basically means my kid hasn't gotten any behavioral therapy in the last three weeks as colds (not COVID) have cycled through various members of the household.

This makes it pretty much impossible for my wife and I to keep consistent schedules. I want to be careful, but in all honesty jumping through these hoops makes me want to say "f*** it" and have no restrictions at all. Adults can get vaxxed and kids under five are at very low risk. Who are we protecting?
I think that the main point is everyone has different circumstances and risk tolerance. I am in a situation where I stopped listening to COVID warnings and COVID rates. I am fully vaccinated and double boosted. I also am not going to bifurcate people from vaccinated or unvaccinated. All of the assumptions we had early on as to whether vaccine will be effective in preventing infection turned out to be wrong, all of the assumptions as to whether the unvaccinated in a local area are preventing herd immunity when this is a global condition is wrong just like shaming the unvaccinated who are dealing with their one risk tolerance is wrong, and those who may still think we can implement a mask policy, shut sectors down, or keep unvaccinated out are wrong such like China's zero COVID policy is insane. I am however convinced from what I have seen that vaccines are damned powerful at preventing hospitalization. I can deal with a week of feeling sick, and I trust the vaccines and the science. I also don't have to worry about young kids being forced to stay at home.

So, just for me, I am done listening to any new guidance or update other than approvals for new booster. I suspect parents who have to deal with kids going to school, etc. have different risk tolerance (and probably more risk tolerance than they did a year ago). I will take the boosters and take risks like I do when I choose to drive, fly to far away places on vacation, spar, etc. I am personally done being afraid of COVID, and I will deal with it if I get it and, if I am still hospitalized after having gotten four shots, I will just give Fauci the finger.
 
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