Vaccine Redux - Vax up and go to Class

203,938 Views | 3382 Replies | Last: 20 hrs ago by Cal88
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."


If someone has a heart attack or stroke with covid, covid caused it. If someone has such within days of getting the vaccine, it is assumed to be natural causes. No further investigation necessary!
Hey, I think the "with Covid" deaths are overreported too. But they're still more reliable than VAERS.
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Yeah, I get it. You are enamored with shiny data that appears to say what you desperately believe, but you're not interested in examining it critically to determine what it really is saying.

Quote:

I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births.
OK, then we have a vast increase in stillbirths reported to the VAERS database, not in the total universe of real world stillbirths. I'm not sure that means much of anything.


oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Yeah, I get it. You are enamored with a pretty graph that appears to say what you desperately believe, but you're not interested in examining it critically to determine what it really is saying.

Quote:

I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births.
OK, then we have a vast increase in stillbirths reported to the VAERS database, not in the total universe of real world stillbirths. I'm not sure that means much of anything.




ROFL . For the third time, I could care less about the graph. Get help.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Yeah, I get it. You are enamored with a pretty graph that appears to say what you desperately believe, but you're not interested in examining it critically to determine what it really is saying.

Quote:

I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births.
OK, then we have a vast increase in stillbirths reported to the VAERS database, not in the total universe of real world stillbirths. I'm not sure that means much of anything.




ROFL . For the third time, I could care less about the graph. Get help.

Earlier in the thread, you said the vaccines cause excess stillbirths. What data support that claim?
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Yeah, I get it. You are enamored with a pretty graph that appears to say what you desperately believe, but you're not interested in examining it critically to determine what it really is saying.

Quote:

I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births.
OK, then we have a vast increase in stillbirths reported to the VAERS database, not in the total universe of real world stillbirths. I'm not sure that means much of anything.




ROFL . For the third time, I could care less about the graph. Get help.
Yeah, I went back and edited out that comment about the graph and made it about the data. Since you don't seem to care about either one, I'm not sure what the point of posting that tweet was. If you had a point.
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?

I'm going to share my personal experience here: Everybody I know -- little kids to Seniors, talkin' hundreds of people -- got vaxxed and nobody had any problems... including they never got serious COVID.
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."
Exactly! You can find all kinds of things that suddenly increased around 2020. It does not mean that the Covid vaccine caused it. Around here, we've had heat waves that hit 112-117 the last two summers and Europe has had similar events. It happened right after the Covid vaccines were released. However, I'm extremely confident that the Covid vaccines don't cause heatwaves.


Maybe covid 19 itself caused the hot summers. Have you thought of that? On a serious note, comparing actual correlations and causations to ridiculous imaginary hypotheses is bush league crap. It just goes to show that you aren't taking this seriously. If you can't take it seriously, you shouldn't opin on the topic.
The whole premise of the miscarriage/stillbirth graph is so badly flawed that it's clear that you aren't serious about having an honest discussion. You still haven't given us the critical missing information about that graph, so no one can give it an honest analysis. As a scientist, if I presented that chart as you did, I'd be spending the rest of my presentation answering questions about it.


Covid 19 causes excess still births. mRNA covid vaccines cause excess stillbirths. Because of such, stillbirths post vax are being reported when they weren't before. Nobody considered that a vaccine would cause a stillbirth until now. Vaccines were much safer until now. The graph exaggerates the incidences of still birth. The fact that you are accusing me of not specifically defending a graph that I didn't even post or directly defend is mind boggling. Pay attention. It is not my chart.
You still haven't provided any proof that Covid or vaccines cause excess stillbirths, just your opinion that it does. The tweet is missing needed information like the source of the data, though you claim it is from VAERS. Who did the graph and was it part of a bigger publication? All very useful to understand what the authors are trying to say. You also haven't explained why a graph that was so ridiculously low for 30 years is suddenly accurate in the last two years. By the way, since we're in November 2022, it appears stillbirths are way down from 2021, probably around 40%. Why? Also, 2000-3500 stillbirths.in the US is regrettable, but fewer than I would have expected. Assuming this is about the US. The plot doesn't even explain what the population being measured is. The US? The world? Keokuk, Iowa? It's hard to assess those numbers when you don't even know if it happened among 200,000 people, 330,000,000 people or 6,000,000,000 people.


What are you talking about? I could care less about the graph. I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births. Do you understand better now?
Yeah, I get it. You are enamored with a pretty graph that appears to say what you desperately believe, but you're not interested in examining it critically to determine what it really is saying.

Quote:

I am assuming these are VAERS reported still births, not all still births.
OK, then we have a vast increase in stillbirths reported to the VAERS database, not in the total universe of real world stillbirths. I'm not sure that means much of anything.




ROFL . For the third time, I could care less about the graph. Get help.

Earlier in the thread, you said the vaccines cause excess stillbirths. What data support that claim?


Actually, I am having some trouble here. CDC shows 21,000 miscarriages in 2020 but only 8,000 in a separate data set from March 2020 to September 2021. On the other hand, other countries, such as the UK, show an increase in stillbirth rate from 2020 to 2021. US scientists have posted a few recent studies indicating that covid vaccines neither increase the chance of miscarriage nor stillbirth. I won't make conclusions one way or another.
movielover
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
movielover said:




The spike protein causes clotting and myocarditis/pericarditis. I am very skeptical of any study that denies any causation between covid infection and those serious conditions.
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

movielover said:



The spike protein causes clotting and myocarditis/pericarditis. I am very skeptical of any study that denies any causation between covid infection and those serious conditions.

The difference between the infection and the mRNA vaccine is that in the former, the spike protein is attached to the virus, while in the latter, it is loose and travelling in the bloodstream on its own.

Myocarditis and other ailments from the spike protein took off right after the rollout of the vaccines. In the ~1 year gap between the pandemic and the vaccine rollout, it was a marginal phenomenon.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have zero medical expertise. Are these two articles examples of Big Pharma disinformation?


"Myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination was most common in males ages 16 to 24. Cases tended to occur within several days after the second mRNA vaccine dose. Most people who developed myocarditis or pericarditis had mild cases and recovered completely after treatment." Sep 13, 2022
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-vaccines

COVID-19 infection poses higher risk for myocarditis than vaccines | American Heart Association


https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Eastern Oregon Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

I have zero medical expertise. Are these two articles examples of Big Pharma disinformation?


"Myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination was most common in males ages 16 to 24. Cases tended to occur within several days after the second mRNA vaccine dose. Most people who developed myocarditis or pericarditis had mild cases and recovered completely after treatment." Sep 13, 2022
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-vaccines

COVID-19 infection poses higher risk for myocarditis than vaccines | American Heart Association


https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines

The studies didn't come from disgraced professors or renegade YouTube channels and the lack of anecdotal PROOF is disturbing, so I'd say you can't trust these findings.
calbear93
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

bearister said:

I have zero medical expertise. Are these two articles examples of Big Pharma disinformation?


"Myocarditis and pericarditis after vaccination was most common in males ages 16 to 24. Cases tended to occur within several days after the second mRNA vaccine dose. Most people who developed myocarditis or pericarditis had mild cases and recovered completely after treatment." Sep 13, 2022
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-vaccines

COVID-19 infection poses higher risk for myocarditis than vaccines | American Heart Association


https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines

The studies didn't come from disgraced professors or renegade YouTube channels and the lack of anecdotal PROOF is disturbing, so I'd say you can't trust these findings.


"Most" or "many" are pretty scary qualifiers. And most clinical
studies are about odds and probability and deviations. Having said that, this is all about individual risk tolerance. While I hated talk of vaccine mandate, I am all for people making their own decisions on vaccine and living with the consequences, including the consequences of not getting vaccinated. If people have not made up their minds yet, they never will. Wasted calories to convince one way or the other.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?


There is a simple fix for this:


"Fish gotta eat same as worms."
-Commodore Josey Wales

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:



There is a simple fix for this:


"Fish gotta eat same as worms."
-Commodore Josey Wales


Thi$ would never have happened if they were all vaccinated with pfizer'$ new Omicron $pecific vaccine exactly 30 day$ prior to $ailing.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If it has been reduced to a bad cold then there is nothing here to see. If it causes issues in Aussie healthcare system then that is a….

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

If it has been reduced to a bad cold then there is nothing here to see. If it causes issues in Aussie healthcare system then that is a….




I have never heard of a bad cold killing 1,500 Americans a week, or 3,000 as Unit2 says.
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

bearister said:

If it has been reduced to a bad cold then there is nothing here to see. If it causes issues in Aussie healthcare system then that is a….




I have never heard of a bad cold killing 1,500 Americans a week, or 3,000 as Unit2 says.

That's about twice the usual average deaths from the flu, assuming the 1,500/wk stays yearround.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

bearister said:

If it has been reduced to a bad cold then there is nothing here to see. If it causes issues in Aussie healthcare system then that is a….




I have never heard of a bad cold killing 1,500 Americans a week, or 3,000 as Unit2 says.


My comment was in anticipation of those who would counter that cruise ship story with, "So what if 800 aboard have Covid? Only deaths and hospitalizations matter."

My major concern is healthcare workers. Everybody else is responsible for their own safety.

If you are in a risk group and don't engage in safety precautions, then at least have the common decency to die in your own bed watching Hee Haw reruns and coughing out lung oysters and chicken puddin.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Australia follows policy of some European countries by advising against mRNA shots for people under 30 due to increased risks of heart damage:

Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."


If someone has a heart attack or stroke with covid, covid caused it. If someone has such within days of getting the vaccine, it is assumed to be natural causes. No further investigation necessary!
Hey, I think the "with Covid" deaths are overreported too. But they're still more reliable than VAERS.
So we have this massive spike in death and disease recorded in VAERS and it is correlated with the vaxxines. Call me crazy but I think it would be a good idea to investigate if there was causation as well.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."


If someone has a heart attack or stroke with covid, covid caused it. If someone has such within days of getting the vaccine, it is assumed to be natural causes. No further investigation necessary!
Hey, I think the "with Covid" deaths are overreported too. But they're still more reliable than VAERS.
So we have this massive spike in death and disease recorded in VAERS and it is correlated with the vaxxines. Call me crazy but I think it would be a good idea to investigate if there was causation as well.

Pretty sure those things are being investigated. Why would you think they aren't?
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Age-std mortality rates in England by vaxx status 1/22-5/22


Excess death across Europe: 2018 - 2022


Child mortality in England by vaxx status

source of the data:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1january2021and31may2022/referencetable06072022accessible.xlsx

Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

2) The massive amount of side effects reported in VAERS is normal because VAERS can't be trusted because it was hardly used prior.
Yeah, that's absolutely right. Ironically, Cal88 (in his attempt to fearmonger) has done a great job of demonstrating why VAERS isn't reliable. Does anyone really believe the number of stillbirths/miscarriages really went up 3000x in 2020? That the rate of such was so low prior to that? No, I don't think so.

That number only jumps because a whole lot of people became more aware of VAERS in 2020. There was a new vaccine that a bunch of people took at the same time (with multiple doses) and a massive publicity campaign around them. The primary reason you're seeing so many new reports in VAERS is because of response bias.

Now, that doesn't mean that the vaccines lack side effects and that we might need to learn more about them. But the VOLUME of reports doesn't mean anything, if you're comparing to years past.

Do you think that the skyrocketing rate of heart injuries among professional athletes right after the vax rollout also is a manifestation of some kind of a cognitive bias?
Do you also have a chart for that or is it just anecdotes?


Hank Aaron died within days of receiving his covid shot. He was 86, died in his sleep, and it was determined to be death from natural causes. Who is going to chart that?
An 86 year old man dying in his sleep? Why would anyone think that was unusual?


It is so easy to disregard the causation, right? If they are old, it is natural. If they are young, they probably had covid at some point or would have had covid at some point and would have been ill regardless.
If causation could actually be demonstrated, then that would be something. Your statement did not demonstrate it. It's the basic definition of "correlation is not causation."


If someone has a heart attack or stroke with covid, covid caused it. If someone has such within days of getting the vaccine, it is assumed to be natural causes. No further investigation necessary!
Hey, I think the "with Covid" deaths are overreported too. But they're still more reliable than VAERS.
So we have this massive spike in death and disease recorded in VAERS and it is correlated with the vaxxines. Call me crazy but I think it would be a good idea to investigate if there was causation as well.

Pretty sure those things are being investigated. Why would you think they aren't?
Maybe you will find this satisfying but I don't in light of all that has transpired over the last few years.

CDC vaccine safety monitoring - Epoch Times

The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has acknowledged publicly for the first time that the agency gave false information about its COVID-19 vaccine safety monitoring.Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the agency's director, said in a letter made public on Sept. 12 that the CDC did not analyze certain types of adverse event reports at all in 2021, despite the agency previously saying it started in February 2021."CDC performed PRR analysis between March 25, 2022, through July 31, 2022," Walensky said. "CDC also recently addressed a previous statement made to the Epoch Times to clarify PRR were not run between February 26, 2021, to September 30, 2021."Walensky's agency had promised in several documents, starting in early 2021, to perform a type of analysis called Proportional Reporting Ratio (PRR) on reports submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which it helps manage.But the agency said in June that it did not perform PRRs. It also said that performing them was "outside th[e] agency's purview."Confronted with the contradiction, Dr. John Su, a CDC official, told The Epoch Times in July that the agency started performing PRRs in February 2021 and "continues to do so to date."But just weeks later, the CDC said Su was wrong."CDC performed PRRs from March 25, 2022 through July 31, 2022," a spokeswoman told The Epoch Times in August.Walensky's new letter, dated Sept. 2 and sent on Sept. 6 to Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), shows that Walensky is aware that her agency gave false information.'Lacked Any Justification'Walensky's letter included no explanation of why that happened.The letter "lacked any justification for why CDC performed PRRS during certain periods and not others," Johnson, the top Republican on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Subcommittee on Investigations, told Walensky in a response."You also provided no explanation as to why Dr. Su's assertion … completely contradicts the CDC's [initial] response … as well as your September 6, 2022, response to me," he added.He demanded answers from the CDC on the situation, including why the CDC did not perform PRRs until March and why the agency misinformed the public when it said no PRRs were conducted.The CDC and Walensky did not respond to requests for comment."At no time have any CDC employees intentionally provided false information," a CDC spokesperson, when correcting the agency's previous responses, told The Epoch Times via email in August.The spokesperson claimed that the false information was given because the CDC thought The Epoch Times and Children's Health Defense, which received the first response, were asking about a different type of analysis called Empirical Bayesian data mining. But both The Epoch Times and Children's Health Defense specifically listed PRRs in their queries.StonewallingThe CDC has still not provided the results of the PRRs that were performed to The Epoch Times. It also did not provide them to Johnson. The Food and Drug Administration, which has conducted Empirical Bayesian data mining on Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System reports, recently refused to provide any of the results to the Epoch Times.Walensky alleged in the new letter that Empirical Bayesian data mining is more reliable, and that the PRR results "were generally consistent with EB data mining, revealing no additional unexpected safety signals.""However, because of your failure to provide these analyses to Congress and to the American people, the public cannot verify your assertion," Johnson said.He added that the CDC's "overall lack of transparency is unacceptable particularly in light of CDC's inconsistent statements on this matter."


sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Epoch Times? No, I don't find that satisfying.
DiabloWags
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Epoch Times? No, I don't find that satisfying.
I told him that about 15 pages ago on this thread.
Another far-right piece of media trash that has religious ties.

More Kool-Aid please!

Porsche . . . "There is no substitute."
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Epoch Times? No, I don't find that satisfying.
ROFL. Russia Russia Russia. Some people have short memories.
sycasey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Epoch Times? No, I don't find that satisfying.
ROFL. Russia Russia Russia. Some people have short memories.
What? Epoch Times isn't Russian.
Zippergate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sycasey said:

Zippergate said:

sycasey said:

Epoch Times? No, I don't find that satisfying.
ROFL. Russia Russia Russia. Some people have short memories.
What? Epoch Times isn't Russian.
Like I said, short memories. Let's try another one...
"has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation."
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.