Livestream: Kyle Kyle Rittenhouse trial opening statements

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bearister
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Didn't get access to all of article. He may well be innocent under bad gun laws and other bad laws, but it is noteworthy that the only people shot and killed were shot and killed by an armed teenager from out of state. I wonder if Matt points that out as a problem among all the points he makes that he is the only truly enlightened one in journalism/media.
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oski003
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bearister said:

Didn't get access to all of article. He may well be innocent under bad gun laws and other bad laws, but it is noteworthy that the only people shot and killed were shot and killed by an armed teenager from out of state. I wonder if Matt points that out as a problem among all the points he makes that he is the only truly enlightened one in journalism/media.


Can you elaborate on how Rittenhouse is from out of state? You indicate that this is important in your analysis.
going4roses
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https://medium.com/white-people-4-black-lives/statement-in-response-to-the-acquittal-of-kyle-rittenhouse-76ba22150b44
going4roses
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https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPd2kYyr6/
bearister
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" Rittenhouse, an Illinois resident, has said that he came to Kenosha*to protect businesses after protests erupted in the wake of a police shooting of a Black resident named Jacob Blake. The prosecution has dismissed the assertion, saying Rittenhouse was a "chaos tourist" who acted recklessly." Washington Post

*This is an undisputed fact
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going4roses
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oski003
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bearister said:

" Rittenhouse, an Illinois resident, has said that he came to Kenosha*to protect businesses after protests erupted in the wake of a police shooting of a Black resident named Jacob Blake. The prosecution has dismissed the assertion, saying Rittenhouse was a "chaos tourist" who acted recklessly." Washington Post

*This is an undisputed fact


Objection: either purposely misleading or you truly believe Rittenhouse is an outsider to Kenosha and only read misleading material from your bubble.
MinotStateBeav
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Here's the article

Kyle Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all six charges today, already causing a great exploding of heads in the pundit-o-sphere. Unrest wouldn't be surprising. How could it be otherwise? Colleagues in national media spent over a year telling the country the 18-year-old was not just guilty, but a moral monster whose acquittal would be an in-your-face affirmation of systemic white supremacy.

It used to bother me that journalists were portrayed in pop culture as sniveling, amoral weenies. Take William Atherton's iconic portrayal in Die Hard of "Thornburg," the TV-news creep who gasps, "Tell me you got that!" with orgasmic awe when an explosion rocks the Nakatomi building. I got that I'd seen that face on reporters.

But risking the life of hero John McClane's wife Holly by putting her name on TV, and getting the info by threatening the family nanny Paulina with an immigration raid? We're bad, I thought, but not that bad. I got that it was a movie, but my father was a local TV man, and that one stung a bit.

MSNBC Thursday pulled a Thornburg in real life. Police stopped a man named James Morrison who was apparently following a jury bus, and said he was acting at the direction of a New York-based MSNBC producer named Irene Byon. Even if all you're after is a post-verdict interview, if a jury gets the slightest whiff that the press is searching out their names and addresses, that's clear intimidation. People will worry about the safety of their spouses and children as they're deliberating. Not that it matters to anyone but the defense,
prosecution, judge, jury, and taxpayers, but you're also putting the trial at risk. I've covered plenty of celebrity trials, from Michael Jackson to the Enron defendants, and know the identifying-jurors practice isn't unheard of. However, in a powder-keg case like this, it's bonkers to play it any way but straight.

We've seen Die Hard-level indifference to social consequence from the beginning of this case. The context of the Rittenhouse shootings involved a summer of protests that began after the police killing of George Floyd, and continued in Kenosha after the shooting of Jacob Blake. We saw demonstrations of all types last summer, ranging from solemn candlelight vigils and thousands of protesters laying peacefully on their backs across bridges, to the burning of storefronts and "hundreds" of car thieves stealing "nearly 80" cars from a dealership in San Leandro, California. When the population is on edge, and people are amped and ready to lash out, that puts an even greater onus on media figures to get things right.
In a tinderbox situation like this one, it was reckless beyond belief for analysts to tell audiences Rittenhouse was a murderer when many if not most of them had a good idea he would be acquitted. But that's exactly what most outlets did.

This is separate and apart from the question of whether or not you like Kyle Rittenhouse, or agree with his politics, or if, as a parent, you would want your own teenager carrying an AR-15 into a chaotic protest zone. The huge media error here was of the "Walls are closing in" variety, except the context was far worse. The "Walls are closing in" stupidity raised vague expectations among #Resistance audiences that at some unfixed point in time, Donald Trump would be pushed from office by scandal. In this case, the same people who poured out onto the streets last summer were told over and over that Rittenhouse was guilty, setting the stage for shock and horror if and when the "wrong" verdict came back.

Media figures got every element of this story wrong. As documented by TK contributor Matt Orfalea, the Young Turks alone spat out all sorts of misconceptions with shocking inattention: that Rittenhouse was "shooting randomly at people" after falling down, that he'd fired first, that there was no evidence that anyone had raised a gun at him, among many, many other errors. Belatedly, the show conceded some of these problems. However, they had access to the correct information in most of these cases on the night of the shootings:

The Young Turks showed restraint relative to other outlets. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said Rittenhouse unloaded "about sixty rounds" into the crowd (it was eight), adding in another segment that he "drove across state lines and started shooting people up," and in still another that he was "shooting wildly, running around acting like a rent a cop, trying to protect property in a town he doesn't know." (His father and other relatives live there). John Heilemann on the same channel said Rittenhouse was "arguably a domestic terrorist" who "crossed state lines to go and shoot people." Bakari Sellers, CNN: "The only person who fired shots that night was Kyle Rittenhouse" (he didn't fire first, and protesters actually fired more rounds).

In the early days after the shooting, there were widespread reports that Rittenhouse either was a "militia member" or "thought of himself as a militia member," but these turned out to not be true (he was actually only a member of a Police Explorers program). A well-known politician, squad member Ayanna Pressley, whom I wouldn't by any means characterize as stupid or generally careless, tweeted a slew of accusations paired with a challenge to media outlets to "fix your damn headlines"



This was followed by other politicians making similar comments. Congressman Ted Lieu in September of last year said Rittenhouse "drove across state lines and he murdered two protesters," adding, "Americans of all colors and creeds are seeing that racism and white supremacy are problems we can't ignore." Stacy Abrams said Rittenhouse was "willing to drive across state lines in order to commit murder." Of course, the crowning impropriety, already mentioned in this space, was then-candidate Joe Biden putting Rittenhouse in a campaign ad in which he talked about how Trump "refused to disavow white supremacists" in a debate:


Even just a few days ago, Biden spokesperson Jen Psaki seemingly couldn't be bothered to address this characterization, sighing with impatience and saying, "What I'm not going to speak to right now is an ongoing trial nor the president's past comments."
A scant few outlets bothered to do what The New Yorker did in July of this year, in examining each of these claims one by one. This involved simple things like citing the Anti-Defamation League report covering Rittenhouse:
Quote:

There is to date no evidence that Rittenhouse was involved with the Kenosha Guard or showed up as a result of their call to action. Nor is there evidence of ties to other extremist groups, either militia groups or white supremacist groups. Rittenhouse's social media accounts provided no evidence of ties to extremism prior to the killings.
The New Yorker also took a sober look at the oft-howled objection that Rittenhouse "crossed state lines," as if this were somehow an offense in itself (see the Matt Orfalea video above) and quickly determined that news outlets simply didn't bother to ask a few basic questions about the case:
Quote:

Because he lived in Illinois, people assumed that he had travelled some distance, for nefarious purposes, and had "crossed state lines" with his rifle. (The Rittenhouse apartment was a mile south of the Wisconsin border, and Rittenhouse had been storing his gun in Kenosha, at the house of a friend's stepfather.)
Because of all of these simple factual misconceptions that Rittenhouse was a militia member and a white supremacist who'd traveled a great distance to a town to which he had no connection, then fired first and indiscriminately analysts not only pre-judged Rittenhouse's guilt, but offered advance explanations for any possible acquittal.
Since it was not possible that it was real self-defense, the trial could only be an affirmation of white supremacy's hold on the judicial system. "I know what white people are willing to do to defend white supremacy," is how Nation justice correspondent Elie Mystal put it, in a Democracy Now! appearance that casually explained some of Judge Schroeder's decisions by saying things like, "That's what racists do." There's simply no requirement anymore for substantiating words like "white supremacist" or "racist" in media. We were once terrified to use these words without a lot of backup, but now, we don't distinguish between a person who attends Richard Spencer rallies and, say, a judge with a "God Bless The U.S.A." ringtone, or a member of a Police Explorers program.
There were even outcries about the racial composition of a jury in a case where all the people involved were white. The most common complaint was that Rittenhouse was being judged by a "nearly all-white jury" (that same language was used repeatedly). Congresswoman Cori Bush even tweeted about how "The Judge. The Jury. The Defendant," collectively exhibited "white supremacy in action," even though the Rittenhouse jury wasn't all white. How are news audiences to sort out when media freakouts over jury composition should be taken seriously (e.g. the Ahmaud Arbery case), and when they should be dismissed as ridiculous?
Now Rittenhouse has been found innocent, and surprise, surprise, the immediate reaction is that it can only be explained by white supremacy. To a degree, I don't even blame people who've come to this conclusion, because it's all they've heard for a year: Rittenhouse is a racist murderer who went way out of his way to shoot innocent people, and was given a pass by an evil system. On cue, the reactions are pouring in, as if pre-written:
"This is how the systems conspire to entrench #WhiteSupremacy," tweeted Black Lives Matter. "The verdict in the #KyleRittenhouseTrial is a reminder of the treacherous role that white supremacy and privilege play within our justice system," added NAACP president Derrick Johnson. "The Rittenhouse verdicts are green lights for armed terrorism by the lawless vigilantes of the white supremacy movement," said former Green Party Presidential candidate Howie Hawkins. Even the ACLU responded with the same canned outrage, as reporter Lee Fang noted:


Sometimes bad things happen, and social tensions should run hot, or people maybe should go out on the streets. However, you've got to at least give people the correct picture before you hit "send" on a story likely to encourage this. When I started researching the Eric Garner case, for instance, I was open to the idea that that there was more to the story than what we saw on the video, which appeared at first glance to show a cold-blooded police execution. In the end, I did find there was more to the story: it was actually worse than what the public thought. Among other things, Garner hadn't even been committing the "crime" of selling untaxed cigarettes on the day police ended his life.

Rittenhouse was an opposite case. The more they looked into it, the more reporters should have been able to see this verdict coming, and why. Instead, they picked a sloppy caricature on day one, and dug in. Now, mass audiences will be far more shocked than they should have been, and who knows what problems might arise from that.
BearForce2
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BearForce2
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Get them all.
dajo9
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Right wing hero Kyle Rittenhouse punching a girl
sycasey
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I thought this was a pretty even-handed view on the outcome:



Rittenhouse is no hero; he's an idiot. He was also not guilty of murder by the laws that currently exist in Wisconsin. The laws that allowed him to carry that gun into that protest are also bad.

The points about him "crossing state lines" are technically true but not that material, given that he lives in a border area where people cross state lines for all kinds of things every day. And apparently the gun itself never crossed state lines. Again, doesn't mean he should have been carrying that gun in that situation! But it's important to be angry about the right things.
oski003
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Unsolicited facts about the Rittenhouse trial since it seems half the people commenting (including the media) are wrong about basic facts:

1) Jacob Blake was armed when he was shot and is still alive, despite what was put out there by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (and ABC News who claimed he was killed).

2) Kyle Rittenhouse NEVER crossed state lines with a firearm, despite what Mayor de Blasio put out yesterday.

3) Kyle Rittenhouse did NOT illegally possess a firearm.

4) Kyle Rittenhouse lived a 21-mile drive from Kenosha. He worked there, his father lived there, and several friends lived there.

5) Gaige Grosskreutz, the third individual shot by Rittenhouse, DID illegally possess a firearm (that he pointed at Rittenhouse). He lived over 40 miles from Kenosha and had no discernable connection to the community.

6) If the curfew policy is considered, thousands of people "shouldn't have been there". Dozens, if not hundreds, were armed and dozens, if not hundreds, were actively breaking several laws. Kyle Rittenhouse was not.

7) Several witnesses consistently testified that Rittenhouse and the people he was with were asked to be there by the owners of a used car lot and they were given access to the building. The owners (hilariously) testified otherwise but even the Kenosha detectives indicated in their notes that they thought the owners were lying.

8 ) Rittenhouse voluntarily gave the police access to his phone even after he was informed they had no way to get into it. Apparently he did not have any evidence of militia/Proud Boys/racist/white supremist type stuff despite what you may have heard from a VERY senior government official.

9) The only major witness whose phone the police did not access was Grosskreutz's. The prosecutor mysteriously chose not to even though he had a valid search warrant. Grosskreutz's interview was also mysteriously the only one that was not recorded.

10) Kyle Rittenhouse did not "hunt anyone down." Prior to being charged by Joseph Rosenbaum, his activities that day consisted of removing graffiti from a high school, providing medical aid to demonstrators, and putting out fires.

11) Joseph Rosenbaum was released from a mental hospital that day. He spent his day violating a restraining order, repeatedly calling people the n-word at a BLM rally, starting fires, threatening to kill people, and telling people he "didn't care about going back to jail."

12) Rosenbaum's exact words to Rittenhouse earlier in the day were "if I catch any of you alone, I will kill you."

13) Rosenbaum served about 14 years in prison. He was originally charged with molesting and/or anally raping five 10 year-old boys (if you average their ages). He was indicted for 11 counts of child molestation and ultimately pled to two counts of having sex with a minor. (Editors note: probably the best example of white privilege in this case is Rosenbaum's light sentence)

14) Rosenbaum also spent much of the day hanging out with Joshua Ziminski. Ziminksi has an extensive, violent, criminal record and is currently charged with arson so he was conveniently "unavailable" for trial.

15) Rosenbaum and Ziminski found Rittenhouse alone in a parking lot. Ziminski fired a handgun (most likely illegal) behind Rittenhouse while Rosenbaum leaped out between two cars, threw his hospital bag at Rittenhouse, charged him, and grabbed his gun - before he was tragically shot.

16) Rittenhouse NEVER chased Rosenbaum, despite the prosecutor lying about it in his opening.

17) Rosenbaum was also not really "shot in the back" despite the prosecutor's misleading claim in his opening statement. One of the shots entered his body in upper part of his neck/shoulder/trapezius area and exited through his hip indicating he was diving, lunging or was otherwise horizonal to the gunshot.

18) Rittenhouse ran multiple blocks towards the police, passing dozens if not hundreds of people and did not fire at anyone that did not kick him in the face, hit him on the head with a skateboard, or point a gun at him.

19) Rittenhouse did NOT shoot any black people. He did shoot at the man who kicked him in the face, who according to some reports is African American.

20) The prosecutor abandoned their lying/misleading opening theory that Rittenhouse chased down Rosenbaum and shot him in the back and switched, mid-trial, to a "provocation" theory.

21) This provocation theory was ENTIRELY made possible by the supposedly pro-Rittenhouse judge. Shorthand - the prosecutor received drone footage from an unknown party (that they went out of their way not to look for but still put on one of their witness lists...) on day 5 of the trial. They submitted a different version of that footage to the defense. The defense did not object to admitting the version they received. The government then further manipulated the drone footage and extracted a blurry still photo of a blob that was supposedly Rittenhouse raising his gun (left-handedly despite Rittenhouse's right-handedness). The defense objected to the blob photo for not being true and accurate. The prosecutor's "expert" witness couldn't tell if it was accurate or not but the judge LET IT IN ANYWAY and the blob became the linchpin to the prosecutor's entire case.

22) The supposedly pro-Rittenhouse judge also let the prosecutor disregard the Fifth Amendment and previous evidentiary rulings without consequence.

In the end, I believe two major lessons can be gleaned from this. One, as a humanist I believe all opinions matter...but ignorant opinions matter less, and opinions based on falsehoods matter even less than that. Second, unfortunately you can not trust the legacy media (CNN, MSNBC, Foxnews, and the networks) to be informed about anything political or nuanced. They ALL failed MISERABLY in the coverage of this case.
dajo9
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What happens if the tables are turned and a leftist shoots a right winger in self defense in a street protest?

The police send a hit squad against the leftist, kill him, and the right wing President brags about it.

going4roses
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That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.
oski003
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going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been throw out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.



You don't know any of this to be true.
going4roses
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Based on American History… the writing is on the wall.

Find one case that proves that what I said is not plausible.

Think first are your lenses jaded to pre supposed that reaction?
sycasey
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going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.
oski003
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sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


Is the hypothetical person also local to Kenosha and a police and fire cadet?
dajo9
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sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


If Rittenhouse were black and WITH a group of armed right wingers he would not have been hassled by the police. Association matters.
oski003
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going4roses said:

Based on American History… the writing is on the wall.

Find one case that proves that what I said is not plausible.

Think first are your lenses jaded to pre supposed that reaction?


What you have said is PLAUSIBLE, meaning it is entirely possible that Rittenhouse would have been found guilty if black, although highly unlikely, because he did not break the law. My lenses don't inject race into everything.

Please free to discuss the 22 points I made above as opposed to just screaming, "Racism!", unless that is all you are capable of.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


Is the hypothetical person also local to Kenosha and a police and fire cadet?

Not sure how much that matters? I'm talking about such a person wandering around at night during a dangerous time.
Unit2Sucks
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The Kenosha killer is a punk who fantasized about killing people just a few weeks before he brought an assault rifle to "protect" a used car lot that had already been destroyed.

oski003
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


Is the hypothetical person also local to Kenosha and a police and fire cadet?

Not sure how much that matters? I'm talking about such a person wandering around at night during a dangerous time.
If the police identified this hypothetical armed black person as an ally, they may have let him assist them against the rioters and looters. I don't advocate for the police doing so. I don't think anyone here is saying everyone acted appropriately.
Anarchistbear
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Kenosha is 7% black but downtown Kenosha, overwhelmingly black was and still stands destroyed. Did white supremacists cross state lines to do this? No, just idiots

A protest against police treatment of black people in which no police and no black people were killed- just suburban white guys role playing cops and robbers. Everybody lived out their fantasies- a couple died doing it. Meanwhile downtown Kenosha remains ruined and unchanged after everyone goes home. And nobody will riot after this verdict because nobody no longer gives a ****
blungld
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It is so sad to see so many people bending over backwards to exonerate killing and this kid who is clearly a POS. I get that you want to defend the tribe and make your parsing arguments about guns that distract from the fact that 2 people were killed unnecessarily and the person who did it takes no responsibility and is seemingly proud of it--and god forbid you agree with a liberal in any way, but man. This is what you support? That's the way you want the US to be? These people are your allies? When do you just stand for decency?
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
going4roses
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This part. Shows the depth of the evilness.
tequila4kapp
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dajo9 said:

What happens if the tables are turned and a leftist shoots a right winger in self defense in a street protest?

The police send a hit squad against the leftist, kill him, and the right wing President brags about it.


Your characterization is very unfair.

The leftist (Reinhold) fled from Oregon to Washington, hid in an apartment and when the police arrived (NOT a hit squad - give me an F'ing break) to arrest him he fled to a car brandishing a gun. If he had voluntarily turned himself into the police and gone on trial his attorneys may have received this copy of video and used it in his defense. But since his actions precluded him ever getting a trial the police investigation and subsequent sharing of evidence never happened.

Side note - it would be nice to know if the FBI was flying surveillance drones at the protests. My personal opinion is that is a practice people on the left and right should demand to have more information about. As a general matter just exactly what Federal offenses are potentially going to occur that the FBY is surveilling us?
tequila4kapp
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going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.

We don't even need to get that far. Would a black man have been able to walk down the street toward the police with his hands mostly up without being shot or arrested. To me, that is the point at which people should be able to agree.

To your question... yes, I believe a black man with a well funded defense could / would receive the same result. Most people, black and white, do not have the money to get this good of a defense. I think unfunded white or black people may well have ended up in prison.
tequila4kapp
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going4roses said:

Based on American History… the writing is on the wall.

Find one case that proves that what I said is not plausible.

Think first are your lenses jaded to pre supposed that reaction?
OJ Simpson.
tequila4kapp
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sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.
I'm on board with this.
sycasey
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oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


Is the hypothetical person also local to Kenosha and a police and fire cadet?

Not sure how much that matters? I'm talking about such a person wandering around at night during a dangerous time.
If the police identified this hypothetical armed black person as an ally, they may have let him assist them against the rioters and looters. I don't advocate for the police doing so. I don't think anyone here is saying everyone acted appropriately.
Then it comes down to the question of how likely it is that the cops would have identified a young black dude with a big gun as an ally, during a Black Lives Matter protest. I guess it's not impossible. But it's much less likely. Probably only if they knew him personally.
oski003
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

oski003 said:

sycasey said:

going4roses said:

That being said if the defendant was Black … would he be found not guilty most likely no.

Gun case would not have been thrown out

Mother would have been prosecuted or turned on him.

He would not be celebrating nor out on bail

And funny part is had he been black the victim's could have been Black or White he was going down.

There is no law and order never has been.


IMO a hypothetical black Kyle Rittenhouse carrying that same gun is probably not allowed to stick around long enough to shoot anyone. The cops would have chased him off, arrested him, or shot him themselves if he'd resisted. There wouldn't have been any trial.

Still, to me that's not an argument that Rittenhouse should be found guilty, it's that young Black men should be found guilty less often.


Is the hypothetical person also local to Kenosha and a police and fire cadet?

Not sure how much that matters? I'm talking about such a person wandering around at night during a dangerous time.
If the police identified this hypothetical armed black person as an ally, they may have let him assist them against the rioters and looters. I don't advocate for the police doing so. I don't think anyone here is saying everyone acted appropriately.
Then it comes down to the question of how likely it is that the cops would have identified a young black dude with a big gun as an ally, during a Black Lives Matter protest. I guess it's not impossible. But it's much less likely. Probably only if they knew him personally.


Or if there was correspondence with that person or the person's group prior to the situation getting tense.
MinotStateBeav
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It's hilarious with all these "hypothetical" black men in this thread lol. You do realize you can cite a ton of cases of black men being found not guilty due to self defense right? The same day Rittenhouse was found not guilty..https://news.yahoo.com/jury-acquits-gifford-man-claimed-195415308.html
Unit2Sucks
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So much of this posturing is necessarily based on an incomplete view of the outcome of the trial. We don't yet have any idea of what the jury deliberations were like but 25 hours is a decent amount of deliberation. OJ was acquitted in 4 hours. Chauvin was convicted in 10 hours. Casey Anthony was acquitted in 11 hours.

We don't know whether a different jury would have convicted on at least one charge and of course we will never know whether a more competent prosecution (with a different unbiased judge) would have been able to make a convincing case beyond a reasonable doubt for at least one charge.

The entire trial was a **** show and not exactly a ringing endorsement for the American criminal justice system. I don't think that the jury decision was necessarily wrong because I wasn't in the room and don't know what they were considering, but not guilty on all counts was not the only reasonable outcome here. There is a reason his legal team was pushing for a mistrial as a backup plan.
 
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