movielover said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Take the eastern portion, or the whole pie? My take was the former.

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They sent tanks to Kiev. They wanted the whole pie. Only now that they've been beaten back do they only want the eastern portion.

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I've seen several alleged military experts describe this as a perfect feint - to tie up Ukranian military forces. I believe forces retreated and may have made a pincer move in the east - what many have as the true objective. I'm not following it closely. And odds are probably good that we have military "advisors" there.

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Yes, and these are the same "experts" who claimed before the war that Russia wasn't going to invade at all.

They are either shills or idiots.

movielover said:

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sycasey said:

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movielover said:

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Take the eastern portion, or the whole pie? My take was the former.

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They sent tanks to Kiev. They wanted the whole pie. Only now that they've been beaten back do they only want the eastern portion.

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I've seen several alleged military experts describe this as a perfect feint - to tie up Ukranian military forces. I believe forces retreated and may have made a pincer move in the east - what many have as the true objective. I'm not following it closely. And odds are probably good that we have military "advisors" there.

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I've seen this too, and Cal88 tried to make this argument. Again, it's just russian spin. Russia wanted to do a thunder run to the Capital, force Zelensky into exile and have the ukranian government collapse. If successful it would have been a scary and strong display of military muscle, and would have propelled russia into the other invasions I mentioned prior. Unfortunately for Russia they incorrectly predicted what the Ukrainians would do, which was fight back and resist, and zelensky denied western requests to flee. That decision created the modern ukranian nation state and defined it as distinct from russia.

Tactically, if Russia was setting up 'the grand deception' near Kyiv, they would not have left all the equipment behind. You may fake an attack, but when you do you do not lose the amount of equipment that they lost. The benefit does not outweigh the loss.

To date in this war, Russia has been Ukraine's biggest arms supplier by abandoning equipment that lacked fuel or would have slowed down a retreat from front line soldiers. When Russia complains about NATO assistance, remember Russia has given more weapons to Ukraine than all of NATO combined.

Cal88 said:

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Poland doesn't have active neo-nazi battalions in its army, or major monuments recently erected to the glory of SS leaders like Stepan Bandera in its main town squares, or main thoroughfares recently named after their WW2 Ukrainian SS leaders. No country in Europe does, except Ukraine, which has literally many dozens of them.

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So many thoughts. First of all, I am not a Ukrainian apologist nor have I claimed it is perfect nation with perfect people. That doesn't mean that they haven't been unjustly attacked with a BS narrative used to legitimize the invasion and that Ukraine TODAY is pro-West democracy. Are you going to break out American history of lynching if Russia nukes us? Do we and the rest of the world all have it coming for our past crimes...and Russia of all countries is the angelic hand of international justice? Where is your disgust and animus for crimes against the Ukrainians committed at this same time by Hitler and Stalin in far far far worse manifestations and greater numbers. You just skip over that part.

In no particular order, there was a strong German presence in Galicia and many reasons for Ukrainians to serve in German forces that is some combination of: these are jerks in every country, there are power hungry pro-war people (especially young easily manipulated men) in every country, there are those who had German roots, there are those who were forced, and there are those who thought this was best way to survive. And this is/was a fraction of Ukraine.

We have hoards of white men brazenly wearing Nazi paraphernalia across our country and rallying together in white supremacist gatherings, are we a Nazi state? Do their actions characterize our nation? Does their existence mean that we are justifiably attacked? Of course not, and as bad as things you have cited are, it does not make Ukraine a Nazi state or a nation that Russia justifiably attacked.

Russia's invasion had NOTHING to do with Nazis. If anything, Russia would love to adopt those forces into their own military. Why spend so much e-ink trying to convince that Ukrainians are Nazi sympathizers when you and I both know that is total exaggeration and has ZERO NADA NOTHING to do with Russia's invasion.

What exactly are you arguing for? Do you think Ukraine is somehow a failed state or a state that is committing crimes against humanity? A nation that needs to be erased? I don't believe for a second you think that, so why the hell all the pointing out Ukrainian flaws and justification for Russian imperialism? Would be refreshing to hear from you some small mention of Russian evils and their responsibility in this conflict and global instability.

Your posts feel like a historical flex without purpose. Apologist rants that regurgitate TASS speaking points in some effort to be the "smartest guy on the thread" even though you have been shown to be wrong and the thread itself would benefit from you stopping this stubborn dig into your position and a little bit of empathy for good people suffering from the acts of an authoritarian scumbag.

DiabloWags said:

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Why bother engaging with someone that entered into a bet claiming that fentanyl hospitalizations would occur due to Halloween candy being given out in which the terms of the bet (that he himself defined) were for him to leave Bearinsider forever if there were no hospitalizations - - - and yet he welched on the bet and is still here posting.

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I had suspected that movielover was another manifestation of BarelyAmazing. Same incoherence. Same inability to realize when they have been shown to be wrong. Same inability to answer questions and stand by their words. This skipping out on bets is a repeated pattern by the right-wing posters on this board. They vote for liars because they are liars themselves.

blungld said:

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We have hoards of white men brazenly wearing Nazi paraphernalia across our country and rallying together in white supremacist gatherings, are we a Nazi state? Do their actions characterize our nation? Does their existence mean that we are justifiably attacked? Of course not, and as bad as things you have cited are, it does not make Ukraine a Nazi state or a nation that Russia justifiably attacked.

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Our nation supported legal slavery longer than most Western democracies, and we still have many people TO THIS DAY who glamorize and support the war originally fought to maintain the institution of slavery. Monuments to that army still sit in front of our government buildings, many built DECADES after the war ended! Some regional state flags still bear the battle emblem of the pro-slavery army!

Clearly the USA is a country of slavers and deserving of invasion. Roll those tanks in, Mexico.

BREAKING: Liberation of key Ukrainian city of Kherson is in full swing now. Parts of the city are already in Ukrainian control; the Russian flag was taken down at the chief administrative building; RU checkpoints in city center abandoned.

Fighting continues. Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

— Tristan Snell (@TristanSnell) November 3, 2022

sycasey said:

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blungld said:

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We have hoards of white men brazenly wearing Nazi paraphernalia across our country and rallying together in white supremacist gatherings, are we a Nazi state? Do their actions characterize our nation? Does their existence mean that we are justifiably attacked? Of course not, and as bad as things you have cited are, it does not make Ukraine a Nazi state or a nation that Russia justifiably attacked.

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Our nation supported legal slavery longer than most Western democracies, and we still have many people TO THIS DAY who glamorize and support the war originally fought to maintain the institution of slavery. Monuments to that army still sit in front of our government buildings, many built DECADES after the war ended! Some regional state flags still bear the battle emblem of the pro-slavery army!

Clearly the USA is a country of slavers and deserving of invasion. Roll those tanks in, Mexico.

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You're changing topics now. The Democrat Klan is clearly 99.8% gone, with allegedly only 3,000 members left. Haven't been Democrat "slavers" around for over a century. But the Demicrats still had some formervKlan members in positions of power, like Exalted Cyclops Robert Byrd.

You do realize that slavery was and is a worldwide institution, and millions of slaves exist, today, in Africa. What's your grand plan for that? Or how about removing Robert Byrd's name from every civic memorial?

What kind of people do you associate with? I can't recall meeting anyone who "glamorizes" the Civil War. Are you talking about history needs who do reenactments? Quite odd. Yes, some people like and build war monuments. Don't travel to the south, or go riot.

Instead of virtue signaling, how about you write the Cal chancellor and alumni office to cough up the remaining Indian stolen artifacts the campus is supposed to return. (Last I read they still had 80% of the collection.)

https://images.app.goo.gl/MDSZ9RXKWgzRqG6E8

https://images.app.goo.gl/zJx1s8mx89nq1KRF9

Your posts create a new category on the stupid spectrum past willfully ignorant just reserved for you. Why do you even bother to post? We could painstakingly show you everything errant in your posts, attach articles, pictures, court documents, investigative journalism and it would make no difference to you. You are not engaged in dialogue, have no interest in learning, and have no hesitance in misrepresenting reality or even your own sincere thoughts or values (if you still hold any).

It's Democrats who are CURRENTLY the proponents of white supremacy and slavery apologists, really?

There are not widespread white supremacist organizations in the country who use Nazi symbolism, really?

There isn't a deeply culturally embedded celebration of antebellum confederacy and all that went with it (namely slavery) in southern white america, really?

Why don't the Democrats and virtue signaling people try to end slavery, today, in Africa.

movielover said:

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sycasey said:

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blungld said:

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We have hoards of white men brazenly wearing Nazi paraphernalia across our country and rallying together in white supremacist gatherings, are we a Nazi state? Do their actions characterize our nation? Does their existence mean that we are justifiably attacked? Of course not, and as bad as things you have cited are, it does not make Ukraine a Nazi state or a nation that Russia justifiably attacked.

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Our nation supported legal slavery longer than most Western democracies, and we still have many people TO THIS DAY who glamorize and support the war originally fought to maintain the institution of slavery. Monuments to that army still sit in front of our government buildings, many built DECADES after the war ended! Some regional state flags still bear the battle emblem of the pro-slavery army!

Clearly the USA is a country of slavers and deserving of invasion. Roll those tanks in, Mexico.

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You're changing topics now.

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You just figured that out?

Yeah, the point is that the US has plenty of bad history and monuments and other things named after bad people, just like Ukraine. It doesn't mean we still have slavery or that Ukraine is still Nazified or that said history is a justification for someone else to invade.

Obvious.

movielover said:

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Why don't the Democrats and virtue signaling people try to end slavery, today, in Africa.

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Great point! And why don't the GOP and their virtue signalers end the invasion in Russia; or church pedophilia in Italy, UK, and the US; or the spread of AIDS in Africa; or starvation in Ethiopia; or jaywalking in Croatia!

blungld said:

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movielover said:

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Why don't the Democrats and virtue signaling people try to end slavery, today, in Africa.

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Great point! And why don't the GOP and their virtue signalers end the invasion in Russia; or church pedophilia in Italy, UK, and the US; or the spread of AIDS in Africa; or starvation in Ethiopia; or jaywalking in Croatia!

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You're the one bellyaching about a horrid, inhumane, immoral, and reprehensible practice... which was ended 157 years ago in America. Since you're obsessed with the topic, step up for enslaved Africans.

movielover said:

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blungld said:

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movielover said:

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Why don't the Democrats and virtue signaling people try to end slavery, today, in Africa.

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Great point! And why don't the GOP and their virtue signalers end the invasion in Russia; or church pedophilia in Italy, UK, and the US; or the spread of AIDS in Africa; or starvation in Ethiopia; or jaywalking in Croatia!

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You're the one bellyaching about a horrid, inhumane, immoral, and reprehensible practice... which was ended 157 years ago in America. Since you're obsessed with the topic, step up for enslaved Africans.

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This is rich coming from someone who claims the Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan.

movielover said:

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Correct.
I. Famous KKK leaders:

Robert Byrd (D) - Congress
Edward White (D) - Senator; and Chief Justice of the US.
Hugo Black (D) - Senator; Supreme Court Justice
Theodore G. Bilbo (D) - Senator, Gov
John Gordon (D) - Senator
William L. Saunders (D) - NC
Benjamin F. Stapleton (D) - Denver Mayor
David Duke - Dem & Rep
Clarence Morley (R) - CO Gov
Edward L. Jackson (R) - Indiana Gov
Bibb Graves (D) - GA Gov
Clifford Walker (D) - AL Gov
John Tyler Morgan (D)
George Gordon (D)
Edmund Pettus (D)
John W. Morton (D)
John Clinton Porter (D) - Los Angeles mayor

II. Lincoln said the 4 horsemen of the apolocalypse upholding slavery were:

- Roger Tawney (D) - Chief Justice - "Taney infamously delivered the majority opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), ruling that African Americans could not be considered U.S. citizens and that Congress could not prohibit slavery in the U.S. territories."
- Franklin Pierce (D) - "14th president of the US. He believed that the abolitionist movement was a fundamental threat to the unity of the nation; he alienated anti-slavery groups by signing the KansasNebraska Act and enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act.
- James Buchanan (D) - 15th president; "Buchanan intervened to assure the Supreme Court's majority ruling in the pro-slavery decision in the Dred Scott case."
- Steven Douglas (D) - Senator, "foremost advocate of popular sovereignty, which held that each territory should be allowed to determine whether to permit slavery within its borders."
Source: Wikipedia

III. Author Dinesh DSouza:
Dinesh says no Republican in the US owned a slave the year before the civil war. Says all of the slave owners were Democrats.

One exception. Says Ulysses Grant was a Democrat when he inherited a slave on his wife's side; he freed the slave when he became a Republican.

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How many CURRENT Democrats support slavery and white supremacy and homage to the confederacy? How many Republicans?

movielover said:

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Correct.
I. Famous KKK leaders:

Robert Byrd (D) - Congress
Edward White (D) - Senator; and Chief Justice of the US.
Hugo Black (D) - Senator; Supreme Court Justice
Theodore G. Bilbo (D) - Senator, Gov
John Gordon (D) - Senator
William L. Saunders (D) - NC
Benjamin F. Stapleton (D) - Denver Mayor
David Duke - Dem & Rep
Clarence Morley (R) - CO Gov
Edward L. Jackson (R) - Indiana Gov
Bibb Graves (D) - GA Gov
Clifford Walker (D) - AL Gov
John Tyler Morgan (D)
George Gordon (D)
Edmund Pettus (D)
John W. Morton (D)
John Clinton Porter (D) - Los Angeles mayor

II. Lincoln said the 4 horsemen of the apolocalypse upholding slavery were:

- Roger Tawney (D) - Chief Justice - "Taney infamously delivered the majority opinion in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), ruling that African Americans could not be considered U.S. citizens and that Congress could not prohibit slavery in the U.S. territories."
- Franklin Pierce (D) - "14th president of the US. He believed that the abolitionist movement was a fundamental threat to the unity of the nation; he alienated anti-slavery groups by signing the KansasNebraska Act and enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act.
- James Buchanan (D) - 15th president; "Buchanan intervened to assure the Supreme Court's majority ruling in the pro-slavery decision in the Dred Scott case."
- Steven Douglas (D) - Senator, "foremost advocate of popular sovereignty, which held that each territory should be allowed to determine whether to permit slavery within its borders."
Source: Wikipedia

III. Author Dinesh DSouza:
Dinesh says no Republican in the US owned a slave the year before the civil war. Says all of the slave owners were Democrats.

One exception. Says Ulysses Grant was a Democrat when he inherited a slave on his wife's side; he freed the slave when he became a Republican.

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These are all people modern conservatives would want to preserve statues for. It's true that 150 years ago the southern democrats were pro slavery and it's true that only a moron or hyper partisan would fail to acknowledge that the civil rights act led to all the racist southerners switching to the GOP, with whom they remain aligned today in opposition to civil rights and equality. It was well before my time but I recall learning about it in history class.

Robert E Lee was aligned with Democrats but only GOPers consider him a national hero. Maybe some day ML will connect the dots and figure out what is really going on, but we shouldn't hold our breath.

movielover said:

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Northern Democrats supported slavery as well. It wasn't a North - South issue as we were taught in school. Democrats in the north supported slavery; Republicans in the south were against it.

Roger Tawney (D) - Northern, owned slaves
- Franklin Pierce (D) - Northerner
- James Buchanan (D) - Northerner
- Steven Douglas (D) - Northerner

Edward L. Jackson (R) - Indiana Gov - Northerner

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What points do you think you are scoring here?

Democrats have no trouble disavowing confederate slavers, it's modern Republicans who align with the confederacy and consider it their heritage.

This isn't rocket science, the modern party alignment is very different than it was 150 years ago. Only the most disingenuous would pretend that the modern Democratic Party would be aligned with the confederate states which have been deep red for 60 years and have been conservative forever. The party names are far less important than their ideology and the modern GOP's brand of conservativism more closely aligns with the confederacy. The GOP warmly embraced the Dixiecrats when they left the Democratic Party.

This is the dumbest version of hyper partisan gotcha.

Unit2Sucks said:

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movielover said:

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Northern Democrats supported slavery as well. It wasn't a North - South issue as we were taught in school. Democrats in the north supported slavery; Republicans in the south were against it.

Roger Tawney (D) - Northern, owned slaves
- Franklin Pierce (D) - Northerner
- James Buchanan (D) - Northerner
- Steven Douglas (D) - Northerner

Edward L. Jackson (R) - Indiana Gov - Northerner

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What points do you think you are scoring here?

Democrats have no trouble disavowing confederate slavers, it's modern Republicans who align with the confederacy and consider it their heritage.

This isn't rocket science, the modern party alignment is very different than it was 150 years ago. Only the most disingenuous would pretend that the modern Democratic Party would be aligned with the confederate states which have been deep red for 60 years and have been conservative forever. The party names are far less important than their ideology and the modern GOP's brand of conservativism more closely aligns with the confederacy. The GOP warmly embraced the Dixiecrats when they left the Democratic Party.

This is the dumbest version of hyper partisan gotcha.

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I might actually lose a tiny bit of sleep tonight, wondering if there is any chance at all that movielover actually believes that the GOP today is less racist than the Dems on account of the party coalitions in the mid-late 1800s.

Yes, it's sad what has happened to the Republican Party since the Democratic Party rejected the bigots in the 20th century

concordtom said:

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Article discusses the impact on Russia population (births) the war is having.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-catastrophic-missing-men-problem-095508987.html

Basically, you need 2.1 kids per woman to remain a stable population size. But with men leaving for war or to flee war the # or births is 1.2, matching a low achieved on 1999 2000.

Putin is not setting Russia up for future success. People are emigrating, not immigrating. And women left behind are left to compete for the dummies who didn't flee already.

The population decline situation is also affecting Ukraine.

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Russia has stolen thousands of Ukrainian children but that no longer seems to be a viable source for them. Putin is definitely exacerbating the demographic issue in the area through his unprovoked war.

concordtom said:

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Article discusses the impact on Russia population (births) the war is having.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-catastrophic-missing-men-problem-095508987.html

Basically, you need 2.1 kids per woman to remain a stable population size. But with men leaving for war or to flee war the # or births is 1.2, matching a low achieved on 1999 2000.

Putin is not setting Russia up for future success. People are emigrating, not immigrating. And women left behind are left to compete for the dummies who didn't flee already.

The population decline situation is also affecting Ukraine.

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What is bad about negative population growth? I understand that usually the underlying reasons for negative population growth are bad (disease, famine, etc.) but absent a bad underlying reason, I think negative population growth for the world would be a good thing. I think the promotion of population growth comes from the capitalist notion that permanent growth in all things is good. I care more about GDP per capita than I do GDP - but a big company cares more about overall GDP growth because that drives earnings growth.

My wife is doing her part. Only 2 kids.

In reply to Unit2Sucks:

Lots of falsehoods and mischaracterizations here.

If you aren't growing your population through births or immigration, ... - well they were before Trump and the GOP convinced people to commit suicide by COVID by foregoing vaccines.

President Trump actually vociferously pushed "Operation Warp Speed", cut red tape, and used his bully pulpit to produce and manufacture vaccines in record time.

The GOP solution is to prevent all immigration and to reduce social security and other entitlements which will exacerbate poverty.

False. Legal immigration. Not 2 Million illegal immigrants, gang members, human traffickers and drug Mules per year!

Having people remain in the workforce longer is one way to offset the modern increase in life expectancy, but that won't be enough. We are going to continue to see a decline in the workforce participation rate as boomers retired and there are fewer people to replace them.

The only reasonable way out of this problem is immigration but because they don't like brown people,

There you go again, Socialist policies are so disastrous, they have to divide people, play the Race Card, etc, to distract from their epic and historic failures. President Trump is the most popular politician now in South Florida, 70% Latino.

We could cut taxes, cut regulations, increase REAL Wages, pump American oil, get out of the Paris Accord, wipe out inflation, cut housing red tape, build homes, harvest California and Canadian trees (cutting the price of lumber), improve schools, close the border, dramatically reduce fentanyl, open mental wards, ban open drug bazaars ('homeless'), and so much more to make communities liveable and affordable.

the GOP's plan is to force birth and to restrict birth control because many of them believe in the great replacement theory.

I think you need a little walk outside. Sal Alinsky is on the other line.