The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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8:09p, 12/21/23
^The truth that the George Orwell Ministry of War has been covering up for a while now:


Not all British sources are lying though, the truth is starting to seep through:


and in NATOland as well:





On one hand NATO sources are claiming Ukraine has only lost a few thousand men, and on the other you have Ukraine kicking off a new campaign to send 500,000 men and women to the front, with people like General Hodges urging them to get on with it already.

This latest campaign has already started, there's been a surge in videos of Ukrainian gang-press patrols going on urban safaris hunting for preys all across the country, often using camouflage, like this ambulance below commandeered as paddy wagon. Unfortunately the press-ganging squads usually get their man.


Sometimes the hunted holds on and lives another day... That's a good wife!



and that's a great sister:


and thank god for kevlar:


Gang-press squad spots a great Leopard tank driver prospect at a strip mall:



With fewer men remaining, and little enthusiasm from those remaining,

...the Kiev government is getting more creative, with a new marketing campaign reaching out to the family segment





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bear2034
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In reply to Zippergate • 10:55p, 12/21/23
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to bear2034 • 9:58a, 12/22/23
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
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sycasey
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:40a, 12/22/23
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).
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dajo9
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In reply to sycasey • 10:42a, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).
Yep. Hatred of Trump has fueled record breaking turnout.
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 10:57a, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?
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bearister
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In reply to oski003 • 11:02a, 12/22/23
Maybe because Americans have become shiftless and refuse to do the work that immigrants will do.
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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to dajo9 • 11:06a, 12/22/23
dajo9 said:

Bill Clinton's policies of national healthcare, welfare reform (in place and largely untouched), government spending restraint and deficit reduction (name a Democratic President since Clinton who hasn't lowered the deficit), crime bill (completely unnecessary in our current low crime era), higher taxes on the rich, and defense of Medicare / Medicaid are very much at home in today's Democratic Party.
Donald Trump agrees. Of course this was before Obama embarrassed him and he started pretending to be a conservative because those were the only people dumb enough to think he wasn't a moron.

Trump definitely didn't sound like a smart guy in this clip (he's always been a dumb blowhard) but he sounds a hell of a lot less incomprehensible than he has in the last few years.

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oski003
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In reply to bearister • 11:23a, 12/22/23
bearister said:
Maybe because Americans have become shiftless and refuse to do the work that immigrants will do.


I agree that many Americans blame other people for their own problems when they simply won't do the hard work required to be successful.
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bearister
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In reply to oski003 • 11:40a, 12/22/23
Think of the life time employment with good pay and benefits to be made in the trades and the response of our youth:

F that, I want to follow my passion and become an Influencer (or substitute any other item on the endless list of passions that no employer is willing to issue a paycheck for).
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 12:00p, 12/22/23
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 12:08p, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
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blungld
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In reply to oski003 • 12:45p, 12/22/23
oski003 said:
So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The way you post makes it clear you are not interested in actual responses or answers, you just want to ask leading questions with an air of smug derision. Good job doing internet!
The Bear will not quilt, the Bear will not dye!
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oski003
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In reply to blungld • 12:54p, 12/22/23
blungld said:
oski003 said:
So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The way you post makes it clear you are not interested in actual responses or answers, you just want to ask leading questions with an air of smug derision. Good job doing internet!


I certainly hope he can clarify the contradiction his answers have created. Thanks.
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Biden Sucks 7
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In reply to sycasey • 1:15p, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.
People don't want to have babies because of the disastrous U.S. economy. When people needed them to work the family farm, Americans had lots of babies. Now they look at the cost of living, the cost of child care, having to have both parents work to survive economically, the cost of college, and the crappy economy and many people say "I don't want to bring a child into this ****ty world." Or maybe they only have 1 kid instead of the 3 they might have had if it wasn't so expensive.

Bidenomics, making the country ****tier so that people don't want to have kids.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 1:16p, 12/22/23
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The overall population of the Earth has kept on growing, yes. The relative proportions of young people vs. old people in a given country can also vary within that framework. Hope this helps.
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 1:35p, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The overall population of the Earth has kept on growing, yes. The relative proportions of young people vs. old people in a given country can also vary within that framework. Hope this helps.


We aren't talking about the world. The increase in votes for Biden was attributed to population growth, and I asked how that balanced with the need to allow unfettered illegal immigration. Some folks have given on point responses on this matter. Thanks.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 1:36p, 12/22/23
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The overall population of the Earth has kept on growing, yes. The relative proportions of young people vs. old people in a given country can also vary within that framework. Hope this helps.


We aren't talking about the world. The increase in votes for Biden was attributed to population growth, and I asked how that balanced with the need to allow unfettered illegal immigration. Some folks have given on point responses on this matter. Thanks.
The population of a country can also increase while still having relatively too many older people in it, hope this helps.
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oski003
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In reply to sycasey • 1:39p, 12/22/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The overall population of the Earth has kept on growing, yes. The relative proportions of young people vs. old people in a given country can also vary within that framework. Hope this helps.


We aren't talking about the world. The increase in votes for Biden was attributed to population growth, and I asked how that balanced with the need to allow unfettered illegal immigration. Some folks have given on point responses on this matter. Thanks.
The population of a country can also increase while still having relatively too many older people in it, hope this helps.


If the voting population increased (citizens 18+) between 2016 and 2020 then that would mean this decrease in babies had to have happened only recently. Hope that helps you.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 8:48p, 12/22/23
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
bear2034 said:
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


And Joe Biden received millions of more votes than any of these amigos.
Population growth will do that.
Population growth and higher turnout (thanks to Trump).


Why do we need an open border if we have such great population growth?

I don't advocate for an "open border," but if you're asking a serious question about why the need for immigration, it's because Americans aren't having enough babies and our population is aging. Gonna need a younger workforce pretty soon.


So, there was population growth until 20 years ago, but now we stopped having babies?
The overall population of the Earth has kept on growing, yes. The relative proportions of young people vs. old people in a given country can also vary within that framework. Hope this helps.


We aren't talking about the world. The increase in votes for Biden was attributed to population growth, and I asked how that balanced with the need to allow unfettered illegal immigration. Some folks have given on point responses on this matter. Thanks.
The population of a country can also increase while still having relatively too many older people in it, hope this helps.


If the voting population increased (citizens 18+) between 2016 and 2020 then that would mean this decrease in babies had to have happened only recently. Hope that helps you.
Yes, Millennials were a fairly large generation and Gen-Z is not. There's something of a generational cliff coming that will likely need to be covered by immigration.

Anyway, if you want to continue our discussion of immigration policy let's move it out of the Ukraine thread.
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dimitrig
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In reply to bearister • 8:51p, 12/22/23
bearister said:
Think of the life time employment with good pay and benefits to be made in the trades and the response of our youth:

F that, I want to follow my passion and become an Influencer (or substitute any other item on the endless list of passions that no employer is willing to issue a paycheck for).


The trades are constantly being undercut by illegals and people who hire them to do work without permits.
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Big C
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11:39p, 12/22/23

As a country gets more educated and affluent, its citizens are going to want to work less. And its women are going to want to have less kids, because that's work, too.

This is just a natural progression.
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Cal88
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In reply to Big C • 6:58a, 12/23/23
Big C said:

As a country gets more educated and affluent, its citizens are going to want to work less. And its women are going to want to have less kids, because that's work, too.

This is just a natural progression.

That's not what's really been happening though, middle class purchasing power has been steadily declining. Women today are forced to work as double incomes are needed just to get by and acquire the basic necessities - housing, healthcare, 2 cars, education etc.

Fewer women are having kids for two reasons, out of economic forces (too expensive), and for cultural reasons related to the societal devaluation of motherhood. Women have been conditioned to believe that their worth comes from their careers and in that perspective marital tasks and duties have become a burden. This has led to western middle aged childless women being one of the most unhappy and depressed segment of the population.

https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6874-11-47

In any case, this is a good discussion but is off-topic.
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bearister
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In reply to Cal88 • 7:25a, 12/23/23
Which is not an easy maneuver to execute: The off topic post on the Off Topic Board.

*Some say it is comparable to pulling off The Triple Lindy.

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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to Big C • 9:30a, 12/23/23
Big C said:

As a country gets more educated and affluent, its citizens are going to want to work less. And its women are going to want to have less kids, because that's work, too.

This is just a natural progression.


Sure but that's not the reason Russia has been suffering a massive demographic crisis for the last few decades. In the 90's there was a period of population decline due to low birth rates (with I believe the highest abortion rates in the world) and high male mortality (with a spike in deaths from alcoholism). That crisis has led to a smaller generation of child bearing age people right now.

Putin called this criss the biggest problem facing Russia about 20 years ago. At some point they started paying people to have children, which helped for a bit until they invaded Crimea.

We've talked about this before in this thread but the fact that Russias birth rate is low and no one wants to move there is an obvious problem for Putin.

And to be clear, the reasons for Russia's decline are not because people are becoming more educated and affluent lol. The fact that they've sent so many men off to fight in a dumb war is a factor of course.

And this is all a reason why Russia is stealing Ukrainian children.

Here's a recent article but they are legion of them. This is a well studied crisis in Russia. https://fortune.com/europe/2022/12/03/declining-birth-rate-population-russia-millennials-gen-z-blame-putin-covid-ukraine-invasion/amp/
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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 1:16p, 12/23/23
Unit2Sucks said:
Big C said:

As a country gets more educated and affluent, its citizens are going to want to work less. And its women are going to want to have less kids, because that's work, too.

This is just a natural progression.


Sure but that's not the reason Russia has been suffering a massive demographic crisis for the last few decades. In the 90's there was a period of population decline due to low birth rates (with I believe the highest abortion rates in the world) and high male mortality (with a spike in deaths from alcoholism). That crisis has led to a smaller generation of child bearing age people right now.

This is a truly remarkable paragraph, in that, everything you wrote here is actually true! It bears highlighting that occasion, 214 pages into this thread.

Quote:
Putin called this criss the biggest problem facing Russia about 20 years ago. At some point they started paying people to have children, which helped for a bit until they invaded Crimea.
Reverting back to U2S's absurd notions about Russia. As if tens of millions of Russian women said, "not tonight Ivan, we've just invaded Crimea"!!!

In reality, Russia's current birth rate, while still below replacement, is among the highest in Europe. Its fertility rate of 1.82 places Russia at the top of Europe, just above France and Ireland.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate

https://www.statista.com/statistics/612074/fertility-rates-in-european-countries/


Quote:
We've talked about this before in this thread but the fact that Russias birth rate is low and no one wants to move there is an obvious problem for Putin.

And to be clear, the reasons for Russia's decline are not because people are becoming more educated and affluent lol. The fact that they've sent so many men off to fight in a dumb war is a factor of course.

And this is all a reason why Russia is stealing Ukrainian children.

Here's a recent article but they are legion of them. This is a well studied crisis in Russia. https://fortune.com/europe/2022/12/03/declining-birth-rate-population-russia-millennials-gen-z-blame-putin-covid-ukraine-invasion/amp/


Russia isn't stealing Ukrainian children, that's wartime propaganda. There are millions of Ukrainian refugees in Russia, and many orphanages, and most of the people in the Donbass and other regions affected by the war have relatives in Russia, it makes sense to evacuate children there. As well Ukraine has been the European hub of human trafficking and other sordid trades like organ trafficking, weapons trafficking etc.

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bearister
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6:18p, 12/23/23
Su-34 Fighter: Fresh Batch Of German Patriot Missiles Likely Behind 'Shooting Down' Of RuAF's Fullback Jets?

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/3-russian-su-34-fighters-shot-down-6-aviators-killed-as-patriot/amp/



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Unit2Sucks
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In reply to bearister • 7:03p, 12/23/23
bearister said:
Su-34 Fighter: Fresh Batch Of German Patriot Missiles Likely Behind 'Shooting Down' Of RuAF's Fullback Jets?

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/3-russian-su-34-fighters-shot-down-6-aviators-killed-as-patriot/amp/
There is still a lot happening at the front. Will be interesting to see if this is a recurring threat to SU-34s from Ukraine and if it will force Russia to make any strategic shifts. In the short term, there are reports that they've grounded the planes.

The big question hanging over everything is whether the US will abandon Ukraine due to MAGA. If we do, Ukraine will fall and the humanitarian crisis will only get worse. If appears that if we continue to back Ukraine fully, Russia is going to have trouble claiming an outright victory - but we have put Ukraine in a terrible spot due to inaction. They should have had F-16s a year ago.

There is a candidate who wants to oppose Putin in the 2024 election but so far his bureaucrats are preventing her from being on the ballot. Her platform is centered on ending the war in Ukraine. I suspect if she gains any notoriety, she will fall out of a window or drink the wrong tea.

There is some odd chatter in the press right now. Europeans are both saying that Putin wants (and is offering a ceasefire) with current positions maintained and that he is going to try to take on Europe next fall. I think there's virtually no chance he expands the front to Europe because he's so completely exposed just trying to maintain positions across the front in Ukraine. Any attempt to expand would result in a colossal defeat. I suspect it's a false flag that his team is putting out there in order to get people to give Ukraine up out of fear. The bigger problem remains that MAGAs in the US have fallen so deep into the Russian disinformation sphere that they would rather support Putin than freedom.

If only this bizarre story below were to get around in the magasphere, we would probably have the MAGAts backing Ukraine all the way.


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Cal88
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In reply to Unit2Sucks • 8:45p, 12/23/23
Unit2Sucks said:
bearister said:
Su-34 Fighter: Fresh Batch Of German Patriot Missiles Likely Behind 'Shooting Down' Of RuAF's Fullback Jets?

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/3-russian-su-34-fighters-shot-down-6-aviators-killed-as-patriot/amp/
There is still a lot happening at the front. Will be interesting to see if this is a recurring threat to SU-34s from Ukraine and if it will force Russia to make any strategic shifts. In the short term, there are reports that they've grounded the planes.

The big question hanging over everything is whether the US will abandon Ukraine due to MAGA. If we do, Ukraine will fall and the humanitarian crisis will only get worse. If appears that if we continue to back Ukraine fully, Russia is going to have trouble claiming an outright victory - but we have put Ukraine in a terrible spot due to inaction. They should have had F-16s a year ago.

There is a candidate who wants to oppose Putin in the 2024 election but so far his bureaucrats are preventing her from being on the ballot. Her platform is centered on ending the war in Ukraine. I suspect if she gains any notoriety, she will fall out of a window or drink the wrong tea.

There is some odd chatter in the press right now. Europeans are both saying that Putin wants (and is offering a ceasefire) with current positions maintained and that he is going to try to take on Europe next fall. I think there's virtually no chance he expands the front to Europe because he's so completely exposed just trying to maintain positions across the front in Ukraine. Any attempt to expand would result in a colossal defeat. I suspect it's a false flag that his team is putting out there in order to get people to give Ukraine up out of fear. The bigger problem remains that MAGAs in the US have fallen so deep into the Russian disinformation sphere that they would rather support Putin than freedom.

If only this bizarre story below were to get around in the magasphere, we would probably have the MAGAts backing Ukraine all the way.

Nearly every statement here is wrong.

-Just one "hellduck" Su-34 has been acknowledged to have crashed, it is not yet established if it was an AA missile (likely but not certain).

-Ukraine is going to lose the war, regardless of the level of NATO support. The sooner it is over, the fewer the casualties (now consisting mainly of older Ukrainian dads). Russia has complete military escalatory dominance in Ukraine, Obama cited this reason for him not having intervened in Crimea in 2014.

-Putin has over 80% support at home, Russia is winning the war, casualties have been relatively low and their economy is doing well.

-Putin is no longer offering a cease fire with the current borders, that ship has sailed. He has recently hinted that Russia will absorb most of the rest of russophone areas including Kharkov and possibly Odessa. Russia is now pressing its military advantage and requiring regime change in Kiev and complete neutrality/demilitarization. They might even request a change in ideology, including the removal of Bandera statues. He won't settle for a Minsk-type agreement any more.

Gen. Milley was right in calling for a settlement after Ukraine regained Kherson and Kharkov territory last year, that was the time for Ukraine to capitalize for a more favorable settlement. He got a lot of flak for that at the time.

-There's virtually no chance Putin will expand to the rest of Europe: true!

-Burisma was owned by oligarch Kolomisky, Zelensky's former patron and handler. If the Russian ties with Burisma alleged by that vlogger were even remotely true, the story would have certainly blown up long ago.
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bearister
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11:19a, 12/26/23
Huge blow for Putin and Russia as Ukraine destroys another warship in Black Sea | World | News | Express.co.uk


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1849117/putin-ukraine-destroys-russian-warship-black-sea
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Cal88
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In reply to bearister • 12:14p, 12/26/23
bearister said:
Huge blow for Putin and Russia as Ukraine destroys another warship in Black Sea | World | News | Express.co.uk


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1849117/putin-ukraine-destroys-russian-warship-black-sea

It's a bit of an exaggeration to call that a huge blow, that loss representing roughly 0.25% of the Russian Navy tonnage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Navy

The main military hardware news item this month is the introduction of a squadron of donated Dutch F-16s. We're going to start seeing air to air combat between F-16s and Su-35s early next year, though the Russians are going to rely primarily on their air defense. I would guess the pilots of these F-16s are going to be NATO volunteers from the US, Netherlands, Poland Romania etc as the F-16 is a difficult/quirky jet to master, with its short side stick and reclined pilot position.



The main side issue that the F-16 will bring is the usage of foreign bases in Poland or Romania as staging ground. Unlike Ukraine's Mig29s which can operate out of short improvised dirt strips, the F-16s need long pristine concrete runways to operate due to their low ventral air intake which would suck in small foreign objects and wreck its engine. The Russians have signaled their intention to bomb these foreign bases in case Ukrainian F-16s operate from there, which could trigger a conflict escalation.

Back to the big picture in this war - going into 2024, Ukraine is stretched very thin and is relying on increasingly older troops:



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movielover
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:07a, 12/27/23
Zippergate said:
The irony is, Bill Clinton's policies--welfare reform, government spending restraint and deficit reduction, the crime bill, etc--would be abhorrent to the current Democratic party.


Dick Morris - triangulation.
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movielover
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In reply to Zippergate • 11:11a, 12/27/23
"Makes for a nice slogan, but you can't have a welfare state funded only by the rich. Look at Sweden. Everyone pays into the system, unlike here where around 50% pay nothing despite extracting massive benefits. It's unsustainable and will end very badly as it did for the Peronists."

Sounds more like a flat tax. Interesting.
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 11:30a, 12/27/23
Now U2S, seeing Ukraine is losing on four fronts (History Legends), claims child trafficking is a huge deal?

This is probably the most informed some have been - in real time - given the Internet, and Twitter (Elon Musk). Our multiple ME wars bled one into another, Obama was droning constantly, but a lot was hidden. Then Wikileaks unloads, and Julian Assange becomes a CIA target (apparently Pompeo discussed killing him).

I read a claim somewhere that we've killed over a Million people the last several decades? I'm so tired of war.

FTR, I've met several Ukranians here... and I don't even ask about the war, especially recent arrivals.
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dimitrig
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In reply to movielover • 11:44a, 12/27/23
movielover said:
"Makes for a nice slogan, but you can't have a welfare state funded only by the rich. Look at Sweden. Everyone pays into the system, unlike here where around 50% pay nothing despite extracting massive benefits. It's unsustainable and will end very badly as it did for the Peronists."

Sounds more like a flat tax. Interesting.


In the US everyone also pays into the system in the form of payroll taxes

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