What's your guys opinion on the Nord Stream explosion?

23,663 Views | 305 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by movielover
sycasey
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Ursine said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
Seems these days that whenever a story is written that someone else doesn't like, the plan is to attack the person who wrote it rather than the claims being made. I see that tactic on social media quite a lot, especially by politicians.

This particular story seems to come from one source and a lot of bad stories have been written the last several years based on anonymous sources. On the plus side, there is a lot of detail in the story.

Just providing context. I think that, given the thin sourcing here, we should wait for further confirmation.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."


sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."
I understand why he might not want to name sources. But he also has no physical evidence. No memos, photos, emails, anything. This article has a very compelling story, but there's no way for anyone to verify it.

At one time Hersh exposed actual conspiracies, it's true (when he reported on Abu Ghraib, he had an actual government report in hand). In more recent times he's seemingly turned to making them up himself. Read this:

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

Now, does any of that prove he's WRONG about this? No. I just can't take his word for it alone. Frankly, I think the fact that no editor at a real publication would take this story from a well-known journalist and he had to publish it on a personal Substack blog should raise some red flags right off the bat.
movielover
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(On YouTube today some former military yack claims we want to go to war with China in 2025 to prevent them from surpassing our dominance.)
Cal88
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cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."

Great post.

The only point I would disagree with is Russia attacking US powerplants and infrastructure, they've been very conservative and prudent so far. I think the only sabotage operations they've carried so far in NATO territory were the explosions/fires in a Bulgarian munitions plant, and very recently, a drone factory in Latvia. Both of these plants supplied Ukraine directly.

The Russians are winning, they have a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO, and they are waging the kind of war that suits them, on their frontyard. So they will not do anything rash.
dimitrig
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Cal88 said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."

Great post.

The only point I would disagree with is Russia attacking US powerplants and infrastructure, they've been very conservative and prudent so far. I think the only sabotage operations they've carried so far in NATO territory were the explosions/fires in a Bulgarian munitions plant, and very recently, a drone factory in Latvia. Both of these plants supplied Ukraine directly.

The Russians are winning, they have a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO, and they are waging the kind of war that suits them, on their frontyard. So they will not do anything rash.


Russia has "a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO?"

That's news. What makes you think that?

sycasey
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."

Great post.

The only point I would disagree with is Russia attacking US powerplants and infrastructure, they've been very conservative and prudent so far. I think the only sabotage operations they've carried so far in NATO territory were the explosions/fires in a Bulgarian munitions plant, and very recently, a drone factory in Latvia. Both of these plants supplied Ukraine directly.

The Russians are winning, they have a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO, and they are waging the kind of war that suits them, on their frontyard. So they will not do anything rash.


Russia has "a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO?"

That's news. What makes you think that?



"Unnamed sources."
movielover
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The UK reportedly is down to one day's projectiles (6,000?). Germany's military was reportedly strong two decades ago, not today. Both Ritter and McGregor say Poland has the strongest military in Western Europe. Don't forget these are war weary countries who rely on us to defend them. We've got 100,000 personnel there, possibly 50,000 combat troops.

NATO stockpiles understandably being depleted. And the Green Energy Crisis has shuttered a lot of heavy industry. (Thank you, Joe Biden.)
sycasey
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More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
Cal88
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dimitrig said:

Cal88 said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."

Great post.

The only point I would disagree with is Russia attacking US powerplants and infrastructure, they've been very conservative and prudent so far. I think the only sabotage operations they've carried so far in NATO territory were the explosions/fires in a Bulgarian munitions plant, and very recently, a drone factory in Latvia. Both of these plants supplied Ukraine directly.

The Russians are winning, they have a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO, and they are waging the kind of war that suits them, on their frontyard. So they will not do anything rash.

Russia has "a larger military industrial base and scaling capacity than NATO?"

That's news. What makes you think that?

Covered in this landmark article titled "Return of Industrial Warfare" which came out last Summer from a leading British military think tank, article which I've already posted several times on this thread.

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/return-industrial-warfare

Russia is also producing around 300-400 new tanks (mostly T-90s) per year, in addition to a few hundred more refurbished T-72s, though that capacity might have been further scaled up. They are also producing over 10,000 shells a day, which is more than the current production capacity of all of NATO combined. They've also set up several drone factories.

Basically the West is hampered by its military philosophy which emphacizes high-end, expensive systems that aren't easily mass-produced. This is partly the result of the US relying heavily on air superiority in wars against weaker foes, and partly the result of a gradually deteriorating MIC procurement system.

movielover
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Our Generals also left over $50 Billion in military gear in Afghanistan. (I do have third-hand knowledge of how we destroyed some items there. But the number of brand-new, never-used vehicles, weapons, ammo, etc was staggering.)
Ursine
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sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
sycasey
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Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/

The article there is not on Bellingcat.
sycasey
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Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
Or was that "ALWAYS attack the source?"
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
Interesting article.

Bloomfield, the author, recounts the methods that Hersh used when he was researching the My Lai Massacre -- find the retirement parties for generals, and talk to retired generals who knew a lot & shared a lot. Hersh was a genius, and he got to the bottom of what was happening.

Needless to say, what worked well in the 1970s for reporting on conspiracies & cover-ups doesn't work at all today. All organizations, especially the U.S. Government, circle their wagons, hunt down leaks, and punish those who stray from their accepted corporate narratives.

And in case you haven't noticed, the media landscape has changed since the 1970s. No media organization today can tolerate having a reporter like Hersh on their payroll, because they would lose sponsors and/or lose access. This is why so many investigative reporters publish on Substack. There, they can write for, and be supported by, their readers directly, rather than having to go through a layer of corporate-sponsored editing.

IMO, there's never been a more challenging time for understanding what's really happening in the world. This is because so many people are lying, and the people who have the greatest influence are the most likely to lie -- because they have the greatest incentive ($$$) to lie.

When the talking head is sponsored by oil companies or "defense" contractors, they're probably lying to me about Ukraine or the Nordstream 2 pipeline. They're NOT going to bite the hand that feeds them. So reader/viewer/listener-sponsored reporting & analysis is a prerequisite for me.

I also have to remind myself that NO ONE gets everything right, and EVERYONE gets at least one thing wrong. You just can't afford to dismiss what one reporter says because they got one other thing wrong. If they're hitting the mark 80% or 90% of the time, it's better to read what they're saying, rather than dismissing it.

Hersh might be wrong on Syria (I'm still figuring that one out), but he's spot on with the Nordstream sabotage. Sure, he's using anonymous sources, but in his business, anonymous sources are the only ones available who know what really happened.

So, in addition to Hersh's very detailed [albeit anonymously-sourced] account, we have:
  • Biden's promise at his 2/7/2022 press conference in Germany to "end" Nordstream 2 if Russia invades
    ;
  • A growing movement within Germany to end sanctions against Russia, and get Russian LNG thru Nordstream (which would weaken NATO & embarrass the U.S.)
  • SoS Blinken's description of the "opportunities" that the sabotage of Nordstream would provide;
  • Deputy SoS Nuland's glee that Nordstream was "a hunk of metal at the bottom of the ocean" during her conversation with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) in a recent Senate hearing;
  • Former UK PM Liz Truss's text message to SoS Blinken, 1 minute after the detonation of the C4, that "It's done"
  • Sweden's refusal to share any of its investigation findings / evidence with Russia -- on the sabotage of their (Russia's) pipeline!

Just so we can see it all in one place, here's the U.S./Biden administration/corporate denial:
  • We didn't do it; Russia did.
  • Anyone who thinks we did it is a Putin apologist.

IF you're thinking that the U.S. would never attack an ally like Germany, you're in fantasy land. The Neocon war-criminal architects of U.S. foreign policy will stop at nothing to achieve their goal, which is the weakening of both Russia & China, by military force, so that the U.S. will remain the world's only super-power.





cbbass1
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sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

sycasey said:

cbbass1 said:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

The New York Times called it a "mystery," but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret until now.

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

So much for the "moral high ground" and claiming to be the "good guys."

IF you were believing the Biden/U.S. foreign policy stories on what happened with the Nordstream sabotage & why, you were fooled.


Seymour Hersh (a once great journalist) has increasingly become a conspiracy theorist in recent years.

He's claimed the Bin Laden raid was an elaborately staged con, and that Assad never used Sarin gas on his own people in Syria (again, he claims a US-led false flag conspiracy).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

I think we need more than his unnamed sources to be sure of this one.
You do realize that if he names his sources inside the U.S. intelligence community, their careers are over, if not their lives.

You also have to realize that anyone in the corporate media who validates his writing will also be labeled a "Putin apologist".

Hersh has been a "conspiracy theorist" for his entire career in journalism. He quite literally exposes actual conspiracies that OUR government participates in, using OUR tax dollars, in OUR name. His work is exactly why we have a 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. How else do we come to know what OUR government is doing, if not for his unnamed sources??

The Neocon war criminals who took over the U.S. foreign policy, intelligence, and defense establishments in 2001, and who remain in place today, are no friend of the American People. They're continuing their quest for world dominion, trying to keep the U.S. as a unipolar superpower in an increasingly multipolar world. They've been planning this war in Ukraine for well over 20 years, but they have most Americans convinced that Russia is the aggressor.

We can now expect many more attacks on U.S. power plants & energy infrastructure, thanks to the Neocon bozos who wanted to penalize Germany for buying gas from Russia.

This is all about keeping Russia from having close ties with Europe, and keeping them from having influence as a world power. As many have said, the U.S. will fight Russia "down to the last Ukrainian."
I understand why he might not want to name sources. But he also has no physical evidence. No memos, photos, emails, anything. This article has a very compelling story, but there's no way for anyone to verify it.

At one time Hersh exposed actual conspiracies, it's true (when he reported on Abu Ghraib, he had an actual government report in hand). In more recent times he's seemingly turned to making them up himself. Read this:

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

Now, does any of that prove he's WRONG about this? No. I just can't take his word for it alone. Frankly, I think the fact that no editor at a real publication would take this story from a well-known journalist and he had to publish it on a personal Substack blog should raise some red flags right off the bat.
No editor at a "real publication" (i.e., corporate-sponsored) is going to publish anything that goes against the U.S.- "good guys" / Russia - "bad guys" narrative. There's too much $$$ at stake.

If you only read "real publications," you're missing out on the truth.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.

There is far more conclusive evidence of Ukraine using chemical weapons in the war right now, dropping nerve agents on Russian troops, but somehow the Zelensky government fans don't care.
sycasey
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cbbass1 said:

If you only read "real publications," you're missing out on the truth.


And also, clearly, if you only trust "alternative" sources you are also going to be led down some rabbit holes.

I think you're too far gone at this point. One would think that being proven so obviously wrong about Russia not wanting to invade Ukraine would have taught you a bit of humility, but apparently not. The Hersh article confirms your priors, so you treat it as gospel despite the numerous issues with it.
sycasey
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Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.

There is far more conclusive evidence of Ukraine using chemical weapons in the war right now, dropping nerve agents on Russian troops, but somehow the Zelensky government fans don't care.

If there's so much evidence then you should be able to share it with us.
MinotStateBeav
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sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.

There is far more conclusive evidence of Ukraine using chemical weapons in the war right now, dropping nerve agents on Russian troops, but somehow the Zelensky government fans don't care.

If there's so much evidence then you should be able to share it with us.
Maybe use your fingers and see it for yourself, not his job to link to disgusting war crimes.
sycasey
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MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.

There is far more conclusive evidence of Ukraine using chemical weapons in the war right now, dropping nerve agents on Russian troops, but somehow the Zelensky government fans don't care.

If there's so much evidence then you should be able to share it with us.
Maybe use your fingers and see it for yourself, not his job to link to disgusting war crimes.
Oh I did. The problem is that the only evidence I could find was:

1. Russian state media
2. Twitter accounts named things like "Someguy45494345" sharing an unverified video

Is there more?
bearister
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My opinion:


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
movielover
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Not propoganda.

Germany Declares No Russian Involvement in Nord Stream Attack

https://www.telesurtv.net/news/Germany-Declares-No-Russian-Involvement-in-Nord-Stream-Attack-20230204-0002.html
movielover
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DiabloWags said:

Cal88 said:



Right, and this removes a huge asset for the Russians in terms of their economic and political leverage over Germany, the key EU country. Why would they do that? And why would they blow it off in a most destructive manner, which will insure it won't be repaired this season?



This pipeline was most likely never going to be re-opened anyway. Why?

Because Russia is losing this War badly and the EU knows it and has no reason to negotiate with the Russians and remove sanctions. The sanctions will remain. The pipeline would have remained closed .... with or without sabotage.



This didn't age well.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

MinotStateBeav said:

sycasey said:

Cal88 said:

sycasey said:

Ursine said:

sycasey said:

More on Hersh:



ALWAYS consider the source.
I did. Bellingcat?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/bellingcat-intelligence-agencies-launders-talking-points-media/276603/
Also: MintPress News?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
Quote:

MintPress News has reposted content from Russian state media outlets RT and Sputnik, and is listed as a "partner" of PeaceData, a Russian fake news site run by the Internet Research Agency. A report from New Knowledge includes MintPress News as part of the "Russian web of disinformation,"and the site has published fake authors attributed to the GRU, the Russian military intelligence agency. MintPress News defended Russia's invasion of Crimea, claiming Ukraine's post-revolution government was "illegitimate."

The site ran numerous stories sympathetic to Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The false information published by MintPress News attracts communities, including some Twitter users, that support Assad and the Russian government.
Yup, sounds about right.

I'll just lay it out here: any outlet that publishes these ridiculous denials about Assad using chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war is automatically discredited in my book. There is no logical reason to believe these conspiracy theories, and it's a frankly disgusting attempt to run cover for a despot and war criminal. MintPress has done it, and so has Hersh. I don't find either of them credible.

There is far more conclusive evidence of Ukraine using chemical weapons in the war right now, dropping nerve agents on Russian troops, but somehow the Zelensky government fans don't care.

If there's so much evidence then you should be able to share it with us.
Maybe use your fingers and see it for yourself, not his job to link to disgusting war crimes.
Oh I did. The problem is that the only evidence I could find was:

1. Russian state media
2. Twitter accounts named things like "Someguy45494345" sharing an unverified video

Is there more

I've posted this video in the other thread is of a Ukrainian officer and his team putting those improvised drone delivery systems, attaching the canisters to the quad drones. They also show that these canisters are stored in their freezer.



There's video footage from a small quad drone, similar to the ones above, dropping a canister on a Russian soldier hiding in a creek that released a gas on impact, following which the soldier who was near the gas cloud went into a series of spasmic convulsions with his head fully immersed in the water for a minute or two then drowned.

Too gruesome to post here, it will ruin your day, but it is still available now on Twitter is you search for "Ukraine chemical weapons". Here is a still from the video, taken right after the canister is dropped from the quadcopter:


Another video by the same Ukrainian officer, showing the canisters in the freezer and what might be their casings lined up with the drones:



^The sardonic laugh at the end is very revealing here...

Also:



sycasey
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So it's unverified videos from Twitter randos, got it.
movielover
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movielover
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Cal88
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sycasey said:

So it's unverified videos from Twitter randos, got it.

The first video was clearly made by that Ukrainian army officer, who identified himself, the fact that this video was picked up from his Telegram account and retweeted by "Twitter randos" is irrelevant as to the authenticity of the original video.

The video of that quad weapon being used to good effect, delivering death from above to a Russian soldier hiding in that creek, is also all too real, or perhaps do you think it's staged?

As well these videos have been posted by Ukrainian soldiers as a boast, they are celebrating their use of this new type of weapon on the Bakhmut front. Eventually they will get the message from Kiev that they should no longer go public on their use of chemical weapons, we're not likely to see a lot more of this. That's why it's important to acknowledge what is happening while the guards of the perps are down.
Unit2Sucks
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movielover said:


Remember when you claimed recently that you knew how to evaluate credibility? Well, you've fallen for propaganda once again. I don't fact check every single time you get duped because it would be a full time job but this one is so laughably and obviously false that only a bad faith troll or someone with a boiled brain could hold this position.

This picture is from when Obama was a senator and visited a warehouse holding decommissioned artillery shells. There are no chemical weapons in the picture and there is zero reason to believe that the US has any involvement with any chemical weapons in Ukraine. The claim you are amplified is entirely baseless and only serves the interest of Putin.

You clearly have no capability of differentiating fact from fiction and if you were engaging in good faith here you would acknowledge your perception gap and try to do better. But we all know that's not going to happen and that you will continue to spread any pro-Putin message you find.

If you really cared about the use of chemical weapons, you would be concerned about Russia's use of phosphorus bombs and other chemical weapons but like your fellow Russian shills, you are only interested in criticizing Ukraine.

I do want to be clear - I abhor the use of chemical weapons and we should encourage the investigation and punishment of anyone using them. The absolute last person on the planet who can complain about Ukraine using chemical weapons is Putin. He does not abide by Geneva conventions and this illegal war was predicated on BS and is a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty, but if we want to use the idiotic "real politic" answer, he end this war tomorrow and prevent his combatants from exposure to chemical warfare.
movielover
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Peace talks with no preconditions. Now.
Cal88
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Amen.
Unit2Sucks
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movielover said:

Peace talks with no preconditions. Now.
Or what, you will continue to get duped by and amplify Russian propaganda?

You're pushing a fake Russian talking point, one of many that you knowingly or unwittingly amplify regularly in this forum.

Putin isn't interested in peace and never has been. He's violated multiple peace treaties with Ukraine and you aren't in a position to credibly evaluate their decision-making. Everyone wants "peace" but it means different things to different people.

Putinists like yourself support Putin in his aim to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty through a direct annexation of the parts of Ukraine most economically favorable to him and the relegation of the rest into a puppet state he can control. Ukrainians believe they have a right to self-governance and a right to exist as a people and culture. You don't particularly care about any of that and just naively pretending that peace talks with "no preconditions" is likely to lead to some sort of lasting peace is just ignoring reality.



oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:

movielover said:

Peace talks with no preconditions. Now.
Or what, you will continue to get duped by and amplify Russian propaganda?

You're pushing a fake Russian talking point, one of many that you knowingly or unwittingly amplify regularly in this forum.

Putin isn't interested in peace and never has been. He's violated multiple peace treaties with Ukraine and you aren't in a position to credibly evaluate their decision-making. Everyone wants "peace" but it means different things to different people.

Putinists like yourself support Putin in his aim to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty through a direct annexation of the parts of Ukraine most economically favorable to him and the relegation of the rest into a puppet state he can control. Ukrainians believe they have a right to self-governance and a right to exist as a people and culture. You don't particularly care about any of that and just naively pretending that peace talks with "no preconditions" is likely to lead to some sort of lasting peace is just ignoring reality.






Well, Ukraine was a puppet state of Russia prior to the NATO supported Maidan and arming of Ukraine. Russia basically had those things before NATO helped them break away. After the anti-Russian revolt in Kiev, Russia was able to secure Crimea almost immediately, given it is heavily Russian and had their naval base there. The Donbass was then under contention and NATO was helping Ukraine scale up to take it back. Yes, Russia wants to "keep" it because of its industrial capacity. I suppose peace to them would include getting those territories " back."
 
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