What's your guys opinion on the Nord Stream explosion?

29,422 Views | 314 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by AunBear89
Unit2Sucks
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concordtom said:




If they cause the meltdown of that nuclear power plant….
Russia already created a massive ecological disaster when they blew up the Kakhovka Dam. It was a despicable terrorist act because the disaster of the war was going so poorly. Destroying Ukraine (in particular, Ukraine's ability to compete with Russia for European trade, given their superior positioning) has always been among their primary objectives.

The Russian shills used to pretend that Ukraine blew up the dam lol, but I think they've since moved on to new gaslighting.

Unfortunately for the people of Ukraine and surrounding areas, the destruction of the dam has been and remains catastrophic.
Quote:

Assessing environmental harm in the midst of a war in which the Dnipro itself delineates more than 300 kilometers of the front line is not easy. But Osadchyi and other Ukrainian researchers have been sobered by what they've found so far. The toll includes heavy damage to a unique sturgeon breeding facility, flooding of nature reserves and agricultural land, and a death blow to countless organisms adapted to brackish estuaries near the confluence of the Dnipro and the Black Sea. Billions of mussels are rotting on the former reservoir's desiccated lakebed. And the Kakhovka's destruction has added a new wrinkle to a puzzle that arose earlier in the war: the unexplained deaths of dolphins and porpoises in the Black Sea off Ukraine's southern coast.

Such ecological miseries pale in comparison with the atrocities Russian forces have committed against Ukrainians during a nearly 2-year war that has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. But when the long and grinding war finally ends, Ukrainians will confront environmental damage that extends well beyond the Dnipro to widespread chemical contamination of agricultural fields and forests from shelling, the wanton destruction of protected areas, and the laying of innumerable mines that experts say will take decades to clear.

"The environmental cost of the war has been immense," says Sergei Mosyakin, director of the M.G. Kholodny Institute of Botany, part of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine (NAS). "The ecocide that Russia has inflicted on our country will be studied for generations to come."

Don't worry, the pro-Putin shills will come by to re-iterate that Ukraine actually did this (despite Russia being so good at war there is no way Ukraine could do it) and that this ecological disaster is actually great because there have been some interesting positive developments. So you should thank Russia for the good stuff, while blaming Ukraine for blowing it up. The firehose of falsehoods isn't predicated on consistency.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

concordtom said:




If they cause the meltdown of that nuclear power plant….
Russia already created a massive ecological disaster when they blew up the Kakhovka Dam. It was a despicable terrorist act because the disaster of the war was going so poorly. Destroying Ukraine (in particular, Ukraine's ability to compete with Russia for European trade, given their superior positioning) has always been among their primary objectives.

The Russian shills used to pretend that Ukraine blew up the dam lol, but I think they've since moved on to new gaslighting.

Unfortunately for the people of Ukraine and surrounding areas, the destruction of the dam has been and remains catastrophic.
Quote:

Assessing environmental harm in the midst of a war in which the Dnipro itself delineates more than 300 kilometers of the front line is not easy. But Osadchyi and other Ukrainian researchers have been sobered by what they've found so far. The toll includes heavy damage to a unique sturgeon breeding facility, flooding of nature reserves and agricultural land, and a death blow to countless organisms adapted to brackish estuaries near the confluence of the Dnipro and the Black Sea. Billions of mussels are rotting on the former reservoir's desiccated lakebed. And the Kakhovka's destruction has added a new wrinkle to a puzzle that arose earlier in the war: the unexplained deaths of dolphins and porpoises in the Black Sea off Ukraine's southern coast.

Such ecological miseries pale in comparison with the atrocities Russian forces have committed against Ukrainians during a nearly 2-year war that has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. But when the long and grinding war finally ends, Ukrainians will confront environmental damage that extends well beyond the Dnipro to widespread chemical contamination of agricultural fields and forests from shelling, the wanton destruction of protected areas, and the laying of innumerable mines that experts say will take decades to clear.

"The environmental cost of the war has been immense," says Sergei Mosyakin, director of the M.G. Kholodny Institute of Botany, part of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine (NAS). "The ecocide that Russia has inflicted on our country will be studied for generations to come."

Don't worry, the pro-Putin shills will come by to re-iterate that Ukraine actually did this (despite Russia being so good at war there is no way Ukraine could do it) and that this ecological disaster is actually great because there have been some interesting positive developments. So you should thank Russia for the good stuff, while blaming Ukraine for blowing it up. The firehose of falsehoods isn't predicated on consistency.

Pathetic.

Ukraine official Anton Gerashchenko, one of your favorite sources, whom you have quoted over a dozen times in this thread, Anton, the guy who was one of the founders of the Ukraine Kill List, actually boasted about Ukraine bombing that dam with US-sourced HIMARS!!!

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/107414/replies/2178196






dajo9
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Genocide Joe said:

dajo9 said:

oski003 said:

dajo9 said:

oski003 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

Who could POSSIBLY want to thwart an international investigation of the Nordstream sabotage??
What is there to investigate? Russia is stronger than ever according to the handlers who provide information to very knowledgeable posters on BI. With all of Russia's new strength and success, they should be thankful for whoever did them the courtesy of blowing up NS. You know, with the butterfly effect and all that, Russia might not be the strongest and free-est nation in the world were it not for the benevolence of the saboteurs.

You seem to be plugged into certain streams of Russian disinformation but you have to get the firehose directly if you really want to understand what's going on in the world.
The investigation is to determine who blew up the pipeline.
Sounds like an internal matter for Russia and Germany
Russia blames the UK, US, and Ukraine. US has denied it, despite Biden saying he was going to shut it down before it blew up. Both Russia and the US have lied quite a bit. Germany has kept silent. It blew up a year and a half ago. Perhaps the truth will come out at some point.
Why do you care?
Because when the United States causes the largest man-made environmental disaster in history for geopolitical ends, they should be held accountable for it. But that's okay. Everyone who would hold Biden accountable for it at the ballot box already knows the U.S. did it and the ones who know who would hold him accountable, but would vote for him anyway are hypocrites, just like they're hypocrites about the failed proxy war in Ukraine that Russia won and the genocide in Gaza that was funded by U.S. weapons and foreign aid.
I'm glad you have it all figured out. No need for an investigation.
cbbass1
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Russia, China, and Brazil continue to push for an independent UN investigation to determine who did the Nord Stream sabotage. The U.S. and its satellites continue to obstruct, deny, and delay.

Immediately after the Nordstream sabotage, U.S. corporate propagandists were united in blaming it on Putin & Russia, despite the lack of any Motive for Russia to destroy their key source of income.

The U.S. called for its client states, Sweden, Denmark, & Germany, to investigate. A year and a half later, Sweden & Denmark have ended their investigations, saying that "There was not the necessary basis for prosecuting a criminal case in Denmark."

Today's AP report on the Danish Nord Stream investigation

Sweden concluded its investigation on Feb 7th, claiming that it did not have jurisdiction (!!). They did, however, conclude that the sabotage was "deliberate" and done by a "state actor".

None of the investigations to date have made any statements about the "preponderance of evidence", or where their investigations might be leaning.

Anyone familiar with criminal investigations knows that in addition to physical evidence, you look for 3 things: Means, Motive, and Opportunity. The 'Motive' part clearly points to the U.S. Not only did Biden say that "We will end it" in a press conference; but U.S. LNG suppliers also made a killing by selling their gas to Europe at inflated prices -- and killing the EU's economy in the process.

With Sweden & Denmark ending their investigations, only the German investigation remains. If we assume that Sweden, Denmark, and Germany are under the thumb of the U.S., and are loathe to cast any doubt or blame on their overlords, we can expect a similar announcement from the Germans.

Please note that most of the UN Security Council members who abstained from the vote on the UN Resolution calling for an independent UN investigation did so because they expressed confidence that the investigations in Sweden, Denmark, and Germany would identify the perpetrator. Since that ship has sailed, we can expect Russia (the primary victim), China, and Brazil to introduce a new Security Council resolution calling for an independent UN investigation.

I wonder what lame excuses the Security Council members who previously abstained will give this time?

Security Council Rejects Draft Resolution Establishing Commission to Investigate Sabotage of Nord Stream Pipeline
dajo9
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I believe Russia is still investigating also. Why do you have so little faith in their investigative abilities? Or do you think they are a puppet state of the U.S. also? Which is it? Is Russia a puppet or incompetent?
bear2034
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Happy Earth Day.
Cal88
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Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Lets Go Brandon 8
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Unit2Sucks said:

concordtom said:




If they cause the meltdown of that nuclear power plant….
Russia already created a massive ecological disaster when they blew up the Kakhovka Dam.

(rest of U2Sucks' war propaganda deleted)

cbbass1
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dajo9 said:

I believe Russia is still investigating also. Why do you have so little faith in their investigative abilities? Or do you think they are a puppet state of the U.S. also? Which is it? Is Russia a puppet or incompetent?
Neither.

Maybe you can tell me how they get access to the explosion sites, especially now that Sweden is on its way to becoming a NATO member. Do you think that they can just go there, drop anchor, deploy a mini-sub, and gather evidence without being fired on as NATO 'enemy' intruders?

Even if they do get permission from NATO to pull up with a Russian Navy ship in a Danish/Swedish/EU/NATO Economic Zone, what good is their investigation going to be if they're investigating the crime scene over a year after the fact? No one can take those findings seriously. The "crime scene" has long since been compromised.

The more important questions are:
  • What evidence has been uncovered thus far?
  • Who restricted access to the sabotage sites immediately following the explosions?
  • Who is working toward transparency and full disclosure, and who is opposing it?


Unit2Sucks
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cbbass1 said:

dajo9 said:

I believe Russia is still investigating also. Why do you have so little faith in their investigative abilities? Or do you think they are a puppet state of the U.S. also? Which is it? Is Russia a puppet or incompetent?
Neither.

Maybe you can tell me how they get access to the explosion sites, especially now that Sweden is on its way to becoming a NATO member. Do you think that they can just go there, drop anchor, deploy a mini-sub, and gather evidence without being fired on as NATO 'enemy' intruders?

Even if they do get permission from NATO to pull up with a Russian Navy ship in a Danish/Swedish/EU/NATO Economic Zone, what good is their investigation going to be if they're investigating the crime scene over a year after the fact? No one can take those findings seriously. The "crime scene" has long since been compromised.

The more important questions are:
  • What evidence has been uncovered thus far?
  • Who restricted access to the sabotage sites immediately following the explosions?
  • Who is working toward transparency and full disclosure, and who is opposing it?

I'm curious - what is the primary source of your concern? As I mentioned before, we've been told (by the same people who seem to form the source of a lot of your opinions) that Russia is doing better than ever and is one of the strongest countries in the world, with so many advantages over sh&tholes like the US.

The "loss" of a non-operational pipeline doesn't appear to have negatively impacted Russia at all. Germany and the rest of Europe doesn't seem to care either. Given that none of the nordstream pipelines were operational, and Russia was and remains under sanctions, they weren't going to go online anyway (at least not while Russia remains a criminal pariah state).

So while I understand the generalized desire to determine what happened, why is it that you are more focused on investigating a non-operating energy pipeline than any other number of disputed events concerning Russia over the past few years? I mean, Russia still denies wrongdoing for Flight 17 and I don't see any of the concern trolls up in arms over that. As I type this I realize that discord servers are lighting up with scores of propaganda garbage which will probably appear in this thread shortly.
dajo9
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So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?
oski003
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dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?


Who is worried for Russia? Do you have a link?
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?

Because we always need an outside boogeyman. Basic straussian neocon chicanery. Commies, muslim terror, and now big bad Russia/Chyna.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?

Because we always need an outside boogeyman. Basic straussian neocon chicanery. Commies, muslim terror, and now big bad Russia/Chyna.


Who is "we" ?
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?

Because we always need an outside boogeyman. Basic straussian neocon chicanery. Commies, muslim terror, and now big bad Russia/Chyna.

Who is "we" ?

Me, and yo momma.
dajo9
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Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

Cal88 said:

dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?

Because we always need an outside boogeyman. Basic straussian neocon chicanery. Commies, muslim terror, and now big bad Russia/Chyna.

Who is "we" ?

Me, and yo momma.


It sure isn't we Americans
Cal88
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We, the most heavily propagandized people in the world.
AunBear89
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oski003 said:

dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?


Who is worried for Russia? Do you have a link?

That's such a good question, fauxinquisitivetroll003!

Lots of alleged Americans worried for Russia here:
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/107414
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

oski003 said:

dajo9 said:

So many Americans so worried for Russia. Why is that?


Who is worried for Russia? Do you have a link?

That's such a good question, fauxinquisitivetroll003!

Lots of alleged Americans worried for Russia here:
https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/107414



Where do these alleged Americans show they are worried for Russia if they lose a war? Can you show any specific posts in this 225 page thread?
AunBear89
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Keep moving the goalposts, conservativeshill003.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

Keep moving the goalposts, conservativeshill003.


What goal post was moved?
Zippergate
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O003, that's the signal that the authoritarian left has moved the goalposts. Simplest way to know what they're up to is to observe what they accuse the other side of.
movielover
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It's a pretty small number of who could do it, avoid detection, and wanted to do it.
cbbass1
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Cal88 said:

We, the most heavily propagandized people in the world.
Absolutely.

And the propaganda machines are in overdrive, desperately trying to convince U.S. taxpayers and voters that approving $60 Billion to send the last few no-so-willing and not-so-able Ukrainians into battle, and $14 Billion to facilitate Israel's genocide & ethnic cleansing, are more important to We The People than spending that money on improving OUR lives.
bear2034
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On January 27, 2022, Under-Secretary of State Victoria Nuland stated, "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward."

On February 7, 2022, President Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it." When asked by the reporter how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it.

On September 30, 2022, immediately following the terrorist attack on the pipeline, Secretary of State Antony Blinken declared that the destruction of the pipeline is "also a tremendous opportunity. It's a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs."

On January 28, 2023, Under-Secretary Victoria Nuland told Senator Ted Cruz, "I am, and I think the administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea."
movielover
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Causing massive energy inflation in Europe, German burning lignite, releasing massive amounts of Boogie Man CO2 into the air, and thousands of businesses closed and millions struggling to make ends meet.
Cal88
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AunBear89
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There you have it: ironclad proof.













Or, confirmation bias. One or the other.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

There you have it: ironclad proof.













Or, confirmation bias. One or the other.


His information is better than absolutely nothing, which you provide.

dajo9
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oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

There you have it: ironclad proof.













Or, confirmation bias. One or the other.


His information is better than absolutely nothing, which you provide.




I disagree. Nothing is better than unsourced, unreliable information.
AunBear89
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Fortunately, I provided neither. Because I don't care.

The fact that Righties are still bringing this up as a "gotcha", as they feverishly search for real evidence but have to settle for anecdotes, tells us all we need.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

oski003 said:

AunBear89 said:

There you have it: ironclad proof.

Or, confirmation bias. One or the other.

His information is better than absolutely nothing, which you provide.




I disagree. Nothing is better than unsourced, unreliable information.


Except in this case, the information was sourced, from a leading Danish newspaper, with an article quoting a local official (harbor master Nielsen) about abnormal US Navy activity in the area.
AunBear89
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Followed by the leap of logic by the X clown and the BI clown that posted him, that the only thing they could have been doing is blowing up the pipeline.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Cal88
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It's your reflexive (and typically aggressive) denial here of a vital piece of circumstantial evidence from a good source that is weird and clownish.
AunBear89
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Please explain to me why it matters that we find out who did it? Will they be prosecuted? It is it going to help your side or the other side win something?

From an historical perspective it would be informative who did it and how, but pretending like the revelation of specifically who is responsible will accomplish something is clown like. But if you need a win so bad to say "The Americans, led by evil Joe Biden, or George Soros, or the deep state, did it!" then you do you.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
 
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