Bidenomics

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calbear93
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oski003 said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Unit2Sucks said:

bearister said:

Biden pumps billions in federal funding into Republican and swing states


https://www.axios.com/2024/04/05/biden-half-trillion-dollar-jobs-campaign

President Biden's infrastructure and clean-energy bills are pumping some $250 billion into Republican and swing states, allowing Biden and his cabinet to regularly announce job-creating goodies in places that could help him win re-election.
… "I hate to acknowledge this, as a former governor of Michigan, but we know that all these battery investments are going to red states," Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm told Axios last week.
And as much as some Republicans have criticized Biden's economic programs, "those governors aren't going to want to see the investment the Inflation Reduction Act reversed," Granholm said."

Numerous GOP Congress people who voted against the acts (and other bills) have hypocritically taken credit for bringing spending to their districts. Biden deserves a lot of credit for his landmark legislations which have brought meaningful benefits for all Americans, not just the ones who voted for him.

The March jobs report was another stellar one. 50% more new jobs than expected and unemployment lowered to 3.8% (many worried it would tick above 4%).

The economy is strong and Biden's administration deserves credit for bringing stability back to our country after the chaos of the prior administration. Voters see what is happening which is why Trump and his team are freaking out about the election and trying to generate or invent a black swan event. It's their only hope to bring his brand of malign chaos back to our country.

So, the question now is whether swing state voters will believe the economic numbers or their lying eyes.


They will probably vote based on their personal situation. If they personally had better economic opportunities and circumstances prior to Biden, they will believe the Democrats are liars.
One thing the employment data shows is that illegal immigrants are not taking jobs away.

Instead, we are hitting a sweet spot where the job market is strong without significant inflationary pressures because of not only increased labor supply to meet with more job demand but also labor efficiencies.

At the end of the day, what will make or break people's experience in this otherwise positive economy will be inflation (which has not be settled) and debt / interest burden.

So, let's drop this illegal immigration is killing jobs for Americans. it is creating a significant burden on local and state budgets, and blue cities are seeing the cost of illegal immigration on provision of services and temporary housing. But job argument was a dumb argument from the beginning. And that's why true conservatives are always in favor of more robust legal immigration.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:



At the end of the day, what will make or break people's experience in this otherwise positive economy will be inflation (which has not be settled) and debt / interest burden.
Are you talking about perception or reality?

I agree that there is still a perception that inflation remains high and of course there are a lot of innumerate people who are smart enough to point out that inflation is cumulative but either disingenuous or too dumb to realize that so is wage growth. Obviously you aren't in that camp.

The reality is that wage growth has been above inflation for more than a year and at the time of the election it will likely be close to 2 years. Inflation is ~3-3.5% (vs Fed's 2% target) and wage growth seems to be consistently above 4% (much higher than it was during Obama's tenure or during the "best economy in the history of the world."

As dajo always points out, the media always undermines the strength of the economy during democratic administrations and gush about the economy during GOP ones. In part it's because the "liberal" media is always trying to appear unbiased while conservative media DGAF. If Trump were president right now and the economy were doing as well as it is, he would hold a news conference every day proclaiming himself the best economic POTUS in history and the media would be singing his praises. With Biden every time there is good news we hear "and why that's bad for Biden." Of course, if Trump were POTUS, we would be in year 8 of total chaos, none of the landmark legislation that Biden passed would have been drafted and we would still be two weeks away from infrastructure week and a draft of the GOP healthcare plan. And, of course, the instability induced by his stable genius would have a negative impact on the business community.



I don't think that's why you continually take a dim view on the strength of our economy, but I do think your view is overly pessimistic. At some point the worm will turn and we will face a recession. That's the nature of a cyclical economy.

But to this point, Biden has managed through at least 3 different "recessions." The first was the recession that wasn't. Heritage grandstanding on it here. Turns out Biden and his economists were right. This was the first time Biden pad a price for a recession that never happened.

The second was the 2023 recession that so many economists predicted with "100% certainty." Bloomberg economists here. Second time Biden paid the price for a recession that never happened.

Finally, Biden's steady hand (including largely letting the Fed do its thing) appears to have given us the soft landing that many economists proclaimed could never happen. Inflation has come down from north of 9% to almost 3% with no job loss. In fact, we saw continued wage growth and massive job gains. This month's 300k jobs report marks over 15M jobs created during Biden's 3 years in office. Obama's economy added 2.7M jobs per year. Trump's dropped to 2.2M before COVID hit. Biden's produced 5M per year, while battling inflation and interest rate spikes we haven't seen in decades, if ever.

Time and time again we've seen breathless articles and predictions about how bad Biden's economy was about to be, and time and time again they have been proven wrong.

Big C
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dajo9 said:

President Jobs Biden is the best President of our lifetime.

There is a great chart in this clip of swing state voters overwhelmingly saying their state economies are good but the national economy is bad. The anti-Biden propaganda from corporate news that caused this is immense.
https://www.threads.net/@allinwithchris/post/C5XD2zLqT6T/?xmt=AQGzIWMhMDA3cwiZ8vUBq_PUbxElbu5t3OBXVwER8ihEXw

2nd to FDR, for me...
Eastern Oregon Bear
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Big C said:

dajo9 said:

President Jobs Biden is the best President of our lifetime.

There is a great chart in this clip of swing state voters overwhelmingly saying their state economies are good but the national economy is bad. The anti-Biden propaganda from corporate news that caused this is immense.
https://www.threads.net/@allinwithchris/post/C5XD2zLqT6T/?xmt=AQGzIWMhMDA3cwiZ8vUBq_PUbxElbu5t3OBXVwER8ihEXw

2nd to FDR, for me...
Wow! You don't look a day over 78!
Big C
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Big C said:

dajo9 said:

President Jobs Biden is the best President of our lifetime.

There is a great chart in this clip of swing state voters overwhelmingly saying their state economies are good but the national economy is bad. The anti-Biden propaganda from corporate news that caused this is immense.
https://www.threads.net/@allinwithchris/post/C5XD2zLqT6T/?xmt=AQGzIWMhMDA3cwiZ8vUBq_PUbxElbu5t3OBXVwER8ihEXw

2nd to FDR, for me...
Wow! You don't look a day over 78!

Thanks. Virtue has its privilege.
bearister
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The U.S. unemployment rate has remained below 4% for 26 months


https://www.axios.com/2024/04/05/us-unemployment-rate-fed-inflation-jobs-report

"If you went into a lab and tried to design the perfect jobs report, you'd have a hard time coming up with something better than the one the Labor Department issued Friday.

The U.S. labor market isn't merely not faltering. Rather, it is getting stronger but in ways that aren't likely to raise excessive inflation alarm bells at the Federal Reserve.
Strong job creation in March coincided with an expanding labor force and moderate wage growth pretty much an ideal situation for both workers and inflation-wary central bankers and investors."
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
DiabloWags
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Gas prices continue to surge.
$6.09 at Chevron in WC for Premium today.

The 3:2:1 crack spread for refiners has widened to $30 a barrel, up about 33% since Jan. 1st.

Note: Its estimated that disruptions in the Red Sea have added $2 a barrel to crack spreads given the longer voyage around the Cape of Good Hope, pushing up demand fir diesel.

Crack Spread:

Refining Yield = 2 barrels of gas + 1 barrel of low sulpher diesel - cost of 3 barrels of WTI crude oil.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
DiabloWags
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Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks
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DiabloWags said:

Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89



I'm sure you could also find a basket of commonly purchased groceries which have much lower inflation. It's just cherrypicking because the media is desperate to attack the strength of the economy.
DiabloWags
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Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89



I'm sure you could also find a basket of commonly purchased groceries which have much lower inflation. It's just cherrypicking because the media is desperate to attack the strength of the economy.

Doesn't sound like you do your own grocery shopping.
Anyone that does would adamantly disagree with your claim.

Read the article that sourced the data from NielsonIQ and get back to me.

Either that, or head down to your local Safeway and let me know how much you pay for a half-gallon of Lucerne milk, a carton of eggs, a tomato, a honey crisp apple, an artichoke, a bag of Lays chips, a loaf of Orowheat bread, a pound of ground round, 8 oz of Genoa salami, a jar of Best Foods Mayo, a can of Friskies cat food, a 16 lb. bag of Purina Cat Food, a package of Bounty or Brawny paper towels, and a 20 lb. box of Arm & Hammer kitty litter.

Free link:

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/inflation-food-price-of-groceries-2024-5010700b?st=4osds99ed5w8oxw&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink











"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks
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DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89



I'm sure you could also find a basket of commonly purchased groceries which have much lower inflation. It's just cherrypicking because the media is desperate to attack the strength of the economy.

Doesn't sound like you do your own grocery shopping.
Anyone that does would adamantly disagree with your claim.

Read the article that sourced the data from NielsonIQ and get back to me.

Either that, or head down to your local Safeway and let me know how much you pay for a half-gallon of Lucerne milk, a carton of eggs, a tomato, a honey crisp apple, an artichoke, a bag of Lays chips, a loaf of Orowheat bread, a pound of ground round, 8 oz of Genoa salami, a jar of Best Foods Mayo, a can of Friskies cat food, a 16 lb. bag of Purina Cat Food, a package of Bounty or Brawny paper towels, and a 20 lb. box of Arm & Hammer kitty litter.

Free link:

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/inflation-food-price-of-groceries-2024-5010700b?st=4osds99ed5w8oxw&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink












Are you suggesting we replace the CPI or PCE with this basket of goods? Nothing in your argument counters my point that this is an exercise in cherry-picking. I'm not saying that this specific basket has outstripped inflation, but I am suggesting that it's misleading data. Even during times of low inflation you can cherry pick. What's the point?

For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.
Big C
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Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89



I'm sure you could also find a basket of commonly purchased groceries which have much lower inflation. It's just cherrypicking because the media is desperate to attack the strength of the economy.

Doesn't sound like you do your own grocery shopping.
Anyone that does would adamantly disagree with your claim.

Read the article that sourced the data from NielsonIQ and get back to me.

Either that, or head down to your local Safeway and let me know how much you pay for a half-gallon of Lucerne milk, a carton of eggs, a tomato, a honey crisp apple, an artichoke, a bag of Lays chips, a loaf of Orowheat bread, a pound of ground round, 8 oz of Genoa salami, a jar of Best Foods Mayo, a can of Friskies cat food, a 16 lb. bag of Purina Cat Food, a package of Bounty or Brawny paper towels, and a 20 lb. box of Arm & Hammer kitty litter.

Free link:

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/inflation-food-price-of-groceries-2024-5010700b?st=4osds99ed5w8oxw&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink












Are you suggesting we replace the CPI or PCE with this basket of goods? Nothing in your argument counters my point that this is an exercise in cherry-picking. I'm not saying that this specific basket has outstripped inflation, but I am suggesting that it's misleading data. Even during times of low inflation you can cherry pick. What's the point?

For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.

The price for this grocery basket covers a five-year period. How much has the CPI increased over the past five years? (asking)

EDIT: overall inflation over the past 5 years is about 25%, according to info on another thread... less, but not hugely less

The grocery price increases are real. Then there's the "shrinkflation" where Safeway's $5 carton of mixed greens suddenly went from 16 oz to 11 oz... and they tried to distract people's attention by showing how the new packaging was more eco-friendly.

The fact that we are talking about groceries in general, that's what is being cherrypicked (assuming that this category has increased more than the general CPI). Unfortunately, people notice the price of groceries and gas, usually once a week or more.

dajo9
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Since 2019 inflation is up 18.0% and hourly wages are up 19.6%. The rest is clickbait.
https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-1913-
oski003
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dajo9 said:

Since 2019 inflation is up 18.0% and hourly wages are up 19.6%. The rest is clickbait.
https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-1913-


Did you know the black-footed cat is the world's deadliest cat?
dajo9
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You'll never believe how high these grocery store conglomerate profits are soaring
NEXT->
https://www.threads.net/@karilakestwat/post/C5dwRDbL6X4/?xmt=AQGz4yV1hFYoOlJ-exuTMD71PN8EgjZFaho2ZWBl8lzhuQ
Oakbear
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"2nd to FDR, for me..."

Well, I sure would put HST above Biden and probably Ike, but after that all I can say it is amazing how well the USA has done with what only can be described as mediocre leaders, just shows how powerful our capitalistic system is

sad that a senile Biden is even in consideration for 2nd best president to fdr
DiabloWags
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Big C said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Per the WSJ from Friday, Page #A2:

$100.30 of commonly purchased groceries in 2019 now costs $136.89



I'm sure you could also find a basket of commonly purchased groceries which have much lower inflation. It's just cherrypicking because the media is desperate to attack the strength of the economy.

Doesn't sound like you do your own grocery shopping.
Anyone that does would adamantly disagree with your claim.

Read the article that sourced the data from NielsonIQ and get back to me.

Either that, or head down to your local Safeway and let me know how much you pay for a half-gallon of Lucerne milk, a carton of eggs, a tomato, a honey crisp apple, an artichoke, a bag of Lays chips, a loaf of Orowheat bread, a pound of ground round, 8 oz of Genoa salami, a jar of Best Foods Mayo, a can of Friskies cat food, a 16 lb. bag of Purina Cat Food, a package of Bounty or Brawny paper towels, and a 20 lb. box of Arm & Hammer kitty litter.

Free link:

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/inflation-food-price-of-groceries-2024-5010700b?st=4osds99ed5w8oxw&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink












Are you suggesting we replace the CPI or PCE with this basket of goods? Nothing in your argument counters my point that this is an exercise in cherry-picking. I'm not saying that this specific basket has outstripped inflation, but I am suggesting that it's misleading data. Even during times of low inflation you can cherry pick. What's the point?

For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.

The price for this grocery basket covers a five-year period. How much has the CPI increased over the past five years? (asking)

EDIT: overall inflation over the past 5 years is about 25%, according to info on another thread... less, but not hugely less

The grocery price increases are real. Then there's the "shrinkflation" where Safeway's $5 carton of mixed greens suddenly went from 16 oz to 11 oz... and they tried to distract people's attention by showing how the new packaging was more eco-friendly.

The fact that we are talking about groceries in general, that's what is being cherrypicked (assuming that this category has increased more than the general CPI). Unfortunately, people notice the price of groceries and gas, usually once a week or more.




It's ironic that someone is talking about "cherrypicking" of groceries when core CPI excludes food and energy because they are deemed to be too volatile. Clearly, indexes reflecting inflation can be "cherrypicked" as well.

FWIW, I never stated anything about grocery prices being EQUATED with CPI or replacing the CPI. I never even mentioned CPI in my original post..But thats what the Biden apologists are suggesting/implying.

Last time I checked, $1 in 2019 is now $1.21 today.
According to the BLS.

In other words, a dollar today only buys 82.645% of what it could buy in 2019.

Clearly grocery prices (on average) have exceeded the increase in CPI and "shrinkflation" is very real. Biden even mentioned the latter during the SOTUS.

Or have you not noticed that a bag of Lays chips is only 8 ounces and the Fresh Express bagged salad is down to 11 ounces?

I cant even believe that people are even arguing about this. But I guess some people have Biden on the Brain and they dont want anyone to be critical of Sleepy Joe. So they resort to conflating a strong economy with grocery inflation???

I never made any comparison of the sort.




"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
DiabloWags
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Unit2sucks said:



For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.


Again, it sounds like you never read the WSJ article which was THE SOURCE for the articles that were posted in the media as your "clickbait" (ie. NY Post) three days ago.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks
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DiabloWags said:

Unit2sucks said:



For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.


Again, it sounds like you never read the WSJ article which was THE SOURCE for the articles that were posted in the media as your "clickbait" (ie. NY Post) three days ago.



I did read the article, even the part that said that the cherry-picked basket of groceries has decreased in price in the past year. The article pointed out a number of specific items (including cherries!) which have gone down in price.

I don't have cats so I have no idea what kitty litter costs but I do shop in grocery stores quite regularly and know that there are like a lot more grocery items than were referenced in the article.

This article doesn't change the fact that inflation is abating and wage growth is still strong.
Lets Go Brandon 19
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Unit2Sucks
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Unit2Sucks said:

DiabloWags said:

Unit2sucks said:



For what it's worth, I do buy groceries and while a lot of things we buy are more expensive, many have remained stable. CPI and PCE take this into account. Murdoch's WSJ wrote an article about a different basket of goods. How is this newsworthy? And, by the way, multiple people posted this same article, so obviously it has been successful click-bait.


Again, it sounds like you never read the WSJ article which was THE SOURCE for the articles that were posted in the media as your "clickbait" (ie. NY Post) three days ago.



I did read the article, even the part that said that the cherry-picked basket of groceries has decreased in price in the past year. The article pointed out a number of specific items (including cherries!) which have gone down in price.

I don't have cats so I have no idea what kitty litter costs but I do shop in grocery stores quite regularly and know that there are like a lot more grocery items than were referenced in the article.

This article doesn't change the fact that inflation is abating and wage growth is still strong.

FTC recently studied the increase in grocery prices and found that, in part, it was due to large retailers taking advantage of the pandemic supply-chain problems to increase their profit margins, which remain higher now than they were pre-pandemic. That's how the free market, with oligarchical elements, operates.

Quote:

F.T.C. officials also argued that consumers are still "facing the negative impact of the pandemic's price hikes," given that retailers' profits remain elevated.

Using public data on profits in the grocery retail industry, the F.T.C. found that in the first three quarters of 2023, food and beverage retailer revenues reached 7 percent over total costs. That was up from more than 6 percent in 2021 and the most recent peak of 5.6 percent in 2015.

"These elevated profit levels warrant further inquiry by the commission and policymakers," the report read.


bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bear2034
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Based on today's CPI inflation report, inflation is....hot.
Unit2Sucks
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Maybe Ron should move out of state like half a million unhappy Floridians in 2022.

bear2034
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What is it, three or four consecutive months now of worse than expected inflation numbers?
DiabloWags
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Larry Summers Says CPI Raises Chances That Fed's Next Move Is to Hike

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-10/summers-says-have-to-seriously-consider-next-fed-move-is-a-hike

The supercore services gauge has accelerated.
Not good.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
DiabloWags
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Homeownership affordability fell to its lowest level since the 1980's last year as mortgage rates surged to a 23-year high last year and home prices set new records.

Never mind surging home insurance rates over the last several years and property tax rates that always go up, not down.

My water district rates have gone up. Republic Services just raised garbage/recycling prices 20% for this year, and (national) electricity rates have increased 29.4% since January 2021. Never mind the increases here in California by PG&E over the last several years, including another 13% for 2024.

After March's CPI report, mortgage rates are back at 7%.

Its not a surprise that Consumer Confidence continues to languish far below pre-Covid levels.

Aside from lowering prescription drug prices and slashing student debt, there's not much Biden or his Administration can do. Grocery prices are mosly out of the administration's control.

Even the Fed's forecast of 3 rate cuts (from earlier this year) that sparked a massive stock market rally seem like pure fantasy after 3 months of very "sticky" inflation rates.

The only thing that I see Biden and Dems able to secure votes on this November is on the Abortion debate.

Will it be enough though?

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
dajo9
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Manufacturing boom, record duration of low unemployment, and growing real wages but some people only fixate on negative. This is the best economy since the 1990s.
DiabloWags
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dajo9 said:

Manufacturing boom, record duration of low unemployment, and growing real wages but some people only fixate on negative. This is the best economy since the 1990s.


Perhaps for the socio-economic sectors that are owners of assets like real estate (having locked in low mortgage rates) and stocks that have increased in value since last November. But there are OTHER VOTERS out their that are renters, commuters, and dont own any stocks.

You cant just keep BLAMING the lethargic Consumer Confidence rate on the Media.

One starts to sound like a Trumper repeatedly yapping about "Fake News" when that position is taken.

This is a big problem for the Administration.

Its why his polling numbers are so low (tied with Trump) relative to an egotistical clown who is facing 4 different lawsuits for felonies.



"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
dajo9
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DiabloWags said:

dajo9 said:

Manufacturing boom, record duration of low unemployment, and growing real wages but some people only fixate on negative. This is the best economy since the 1990s.


Perhaps for the socio-economic sectors that are owners of assets like real estate (having locked in low mortgage rates) and stocks that have increased in value since last November. But there are OTHER VOTERS out their that are renters, commuters, and dont own any stocks.

You cant just keep BLAMING the lethargic Consumer Confidence rate on the Media.

One starts to sound like a Trumper repeatedly yapping about "Fake News" when that position is taken.





Soft data polling is politicized. If Trump became President tomorrow his supporters would cause consumer confidence to surge. It has lost its meaningfulness.

This economy is working for people who work. Jobs are booming, real wages are up, manufacturing is returning to America. Data shows the lower tiers are having the best real wage gains.
DiabloWags
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dajo9 said:

Manufacturing boom, record duration of low unemployment, and growing real wages but some people only fixate on negative. This is the best economy since the 1990s.


And yet if we had followed the advice of your two most favorite and quoted liberal "economists" of Bob Reich and Paul Krugman ... who repeatedly argued against rate hikes by the Fed, where do you think current inflation rates would be?
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
DiabloWags
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dajo9 said:



Soft data polling is politicized. If Trump became President tomorrow his supporters would cause consumer confidence to surge. It has lost its meaningfulness.

This economy is working for people who work. Jobs are booming, real wages are up, manufacturing is returning to America. Data shows the lower tiers are having the best real wage gains.


In a WSJ poll of voters in 7 Swing States last month, 74% of respondents said inflation has moved in the wrong direction in the past year.

Even Ron Klain, Biden's former Chief of Staff has criticized the president for (in his view) focusing too much on his efforts to fix the nation's infrastructure and not enough on prices, according to Politico at a recent event where Klain's remarks were recorded.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

DiabloWags said:

dajo9 said:

Manufacturing boom, record duration of low unemployment, and growing real wages but some people only fixate on negative. This is the best economy since the 1990s.


Perhaps for the socio-economic sectors that are owners of assets like real estate (having locked in low mortgage rates) and stocks that have increased in value since last November. But there are OTHER VOTERS out their that are renters, commuters, and dont own any stocks.

You cant just keep BLAMING the lethargic Consumer Confidence rate on the Media.

One starts to sound like a Trumper repeatedly yapping about "Fake News" when that position is taken.





Soft data polling is politicized. If Trump became President tomorrow his supporters would cause consumer confidence to surge. It has lost its meaningfulness.

This economy is working for people who work. Jobs are booming, real wages are up, manufacturing is returning to America. Data shows the lower tiers are having the best real wage gains.
Agreed, if you look at the data shared by the Conference Board about their latest consumer confidence survey, you can see how far divorced it is from reality.

Quote:

Indeed, average 12-month inflation expectations came in at 5.3 percentbarely changed from February's four-year low of 5.2 percent. Recession fears continued to trend downward both in write-in responses and as measured by consumers' Perceived Likelihood of a US Recession over the Next 12 Months. Meanwhile, consumers expressed more concern about the US political environment compared to prior months."

As you can see, for the past 4 years consumers have expected inflation to be above 5.3%. I guess you coulkd argue that it was a reasonable fear in 2020 and obviously it turned out to be true for a 2-year period from mid-2021 to mid-2023, but at this point is anyone expecting inflation to jump above 5% again?

Quote:

Present Situation
Consumers' assessment of current business conditions fell slightly in March.
  • 19.5% of consumers said business conditions were "good," down from 20.4% in February.
  • 17.2% said business conditions were "bad," down from 17.7%.
Consumers' appraisal of the labor market was more positive in March.
  • 43.1% of consumers said jobs were "plentiful," up from 42.8% in February.
  • 10.9% of consumers said jobs were "hard to get," down from 12.7%.

This is one of, if not the best, labor market any of these consumers have ever seen and yet the data suggests otherwise.

The politicization of consumer sentiment has been studied and it's what you would expect.

Quote:

The findings indicate a significant boost to consumer morale when their affiliated party won elections, particularly following presidential elections where there was a change in the presidential party, such as those in 1992, 2000, 2008, and 2016. As anticipated, consumer sentiments showed an inverse pattern between Democrats and Republicans. When a Democrat won the presidency, Democrats' positive sentiments rose while Republicans' positive sentiments declined, and vice versa when a Republican won.
If you look at the chart, the swing in republican sentiment is larger, no doubt fueled by media narratives, including the typical outsized influence of Fox News, which continues to produce the most out of touch viewers. The swings in republican sentiment in the study look more extreme than the democratic ones.

There was a study done on what happened to Fox News viewers when they were paid to switch to CNN for a month, and ... they became less poorly informed and their extreme positions moderated.

Quote:

By the end of September, the CNN watchers were less likely to agree that: "It is an overreaction to go out and protest in response to the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin" and less likely to believe that: "If Joe Biden is elected President, we'll see many police get shot by Black Lives Matter activists", when compared with their peers who continued watching Fox News.

The CNN switchers were also, as Bloomberg's Matthew Yglesias reported, 10 points less likely to believe that Joe Biden supporters were happy when police officers get shot, and 11 points less likely to believe that it is "more important for the President to focus on violent protests than the coronavirus pandemic".

In addition the CNN viewers were 13 points less likely than the Fox News viewers to agree that: "If Joe Biden is elected President, we'll see many more police get shot by Black Lives Matter activists."

In an email interview, Kalla said he and Broockman had not necessarily expected people's opinions to change.

"I think the most surprising finding is that shifting people's media diets from Fox News to CNN for a month had any effect," Kalla said.

The people in the experiment, Kalla said, were "overwhelmingly pro-Trump Republicans". Given Trump had spent much of his presidency bashing CNN a regular chant at his rallies was "CNN sucks!" the results are particularly surprising.

"A lot of people might expect this audience to completely resist what CNN had to say, but we see people learning what CNN was reporting and changing their attitudes, too. It is therefore surprising that watching CNN had any impact at all in this experiment," Kalla said.
DiabloWags
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Inflation expectations are rising.
And these numbers were well BEFORE the March CPI data.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/newsevents/news/research/2024/20240311#:~:text=Median%20inflation%20expectations%20remained%20unchanged,the%20five%2Dyear%20ahead%20horizon.


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Unit2Sucks
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DiabloWags said:

Inflation expectations are rising.
And these numbers were well BEFORE the March CPI data.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/newsevents/news/research/2024/20240311#:~:text=Median%20inflation%20expectations%20remained%20unchanged,the%20five%2Dyear%20ahead%20horizon.



You think people without high school diplomas are meticulously evaluating CPI data?

Quote:

Median inflation expectations remained unchanged at 3.0% at the one-year horizon, increased to 2.7% from 2.4% at the three-year ahead horizon, and increased to 2.9% from 2.5% at the five-year ahead horizon. The increases in both the three-year ahead and five-year ahead measures were most pronounced for respondents with at most high school degrees.

The Fed's target is 2% but it's only been that way since 2012. It's essentially a made up number. 3% is a reasonable level of inflation to have and closer to what we have had historically. When you look at the data over the last several decades, we were most frequently in the 3-4% range, where we are now. People are freaked out because they are being told to be freaked out. If we see inflation continue to rise for unexpected reasons, it will certainly present a problem but it's not time to ring the alarm bells yet. Remember that economists have been incorrectly predicting economic doom and gloom for the near future during Biden's entire term. I posted the other day on the several projected recessions including one that was predicted to occur with 100% certainty.
 
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