dajo9 said:

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bear2034 said:

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JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Kamala Harris backs President Biden's 44.6% capital gains tax proposal, the highest in history.

The proposal also includes a 25% tax on unrealized gains for high-net-worth individuals. pic.twitter.com/ERw22lgRqq

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) August 20, 2024

Anyone here qualified for Kamala's new proposal for taxes on unrealized capital gains?

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Unlikely anyone here qualifies for either rate. You have to have income above $1M to have the 44.6% capital gains rate. Assets above $100M for the unrealized gains tax.

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If the capital gain isn't adjusted for inflation, and I assume it wouldn't be, you'd end up with some very high effective rates. For example, if you bought the S&P the day Biden took office and sold it today, you end up with a effective tax rate of 98.4%, by comparing the inflation-adjusted gain to the tax, which is on the nominal gain.

I assume we'll get inflation under control, but even at low inflation I'd worry that the effective rate would distort investment decisions.

LudwigsFountain said:

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dajo9 said:

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bear2034 said:

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JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Kamala Harris backs President Biden's 44.6% capital gains tax proposal, the highest in history.

The proposal also includes a 25% tax on unrealized gains for high-net-worth individuals. pic.twitter.com/ERw22lgRqq

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) August 20, 2024

Anyone here qualified for Kamala's new proposal for taxes on unrealized capital gains?

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Unlikely anyone here qualifies for either rate. You have to have income above $1M to have the 44.6% capital gains rate. Assets above $100M for the unrealized gains tax.

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If the capital gain isn't adjusted for inflation, and I assume it wouldn't be, you'd end up with some very high effective rates. For example, if you bought the S&P the day Biden took office and sold it today, you end up with a effective tax rate of 98.4%, by comparing the inflation-adjusted gain to the tax, which is on the nominal gain.

I assume we'll get inflation under control, but even at low inflation I'd worry that the effective rate would distort investment decisions.

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The creative ways you guys come up with to fear for the plight of the super rich is very amusing to me. I mean, I'm rich. But I have no fear of paying these taxes because these taxes are for the really, really rich. Maybe calbear93 and diablowags are sweating it out - I don't know.

But let's play your game. If you want to call inflation part of the tax rate, the number I come up with is 75%. But of course, that is bad finance with either of our numbers because it ignores opportunity costs. One of the benefits of the stock market is that it is more likely to protect you from inflation than say, bonds or cash (results may vary). The investment decision vs. bonds or cash is still there because of the opportunity costs which is negative returns.

In your scenario, the million dollar income earner has S&P 500 after tax inflation adjusted returns of 14% under the Biden / Harris plan (and that's only if the tax is not inflation adjusted which - who knows). As opposed to a 26% return under current law. I hope the super rich will survive.

If you want to complain about inflation and taxes you are misdirecting your anger, which should be pointed at Donold Trump. His 2017 tax plan included a stealth tax increase at all income levels that the corporate media ignores. The tax law sunsets at 10 years except primarily for two provisions. Anything lasting over 10 years had to be revenue neutral. One provision, Trump's corporate tax decrease is permanent law. How did he offset the cost of that and keep it revenue neutral? A 2nd provision changed the inflation adjustment of the income tax brackets, slowing them down at all levels of income. That is effectively a tax increase on all of us. So you are out here worrying about the super wealthy and ignoring the guy with his hand in your pocket.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/27/573556101/taxpayers-may-feel-a-bite-from-a-new-way-of-tracking-inflation

dajo9 said:

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LudwigsFountain said:

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dajo9 said:

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bear2034 said:

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JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Kamala Harris backs President Biden's 44.6% capital gains tax proposal, the highest in history.

The proposal also includes a 25% tax on unrealized gains for high-net-worth individuals. pic.twitter.com/ERw22lgRqq

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) August 20, 2024

Anyone here qualified for Kamala's new proposal for taxes on unrealized capital gains?

---

Unlikely anyone here qualifies for either rate. You have to have income above $1M to have the 44.6% capital gains rate. Assets above $100M for the unrealized gains tax.

---

If the capital gain isn't adjusted for inflation, and I assume it wouldn't be, you'd end up with some very high effective rates. For example, if you bought the S&P the day Biden took office and sold it today, you end up with a effective tax rate of 98.4%, by comparing the inflation-adjusted gain to the tax, which is on the nominal gain.

I assume we'll get inflation under control, but even at low inflation I'd worry that the effective rate would distort investment decisions.

---

The creative ways you guys come up with to fear for the plight of the super rich is very amusing to me. I mean, I'm rich. But I have no fear of paying these taxes because these taxes are for the really, really rich. Maybe calbear93 and diablowags are sweating it out - I don't know.

But let's play your game. If you want to call inflation part of the tax rate, the number I come up with is 75%. But of course, that is bad finance with either of our numbers because it ignores opportunity costs. One of the benefits of the stock market is that it is more likely to protect you from inflation than say, bonds or cash (results may vary). The investment decision vs. bonds or cash is still there because of the opportunity costs which is negative returns.

In your scenario, the million dollar income earner has S&P 500 after tax inflation adjusted returns of 14% under the Biden / Harris plan (and that's only if the tax is not inflation adjusted which - who knows). As opposed to a 26% return under current law. I hope the super rich will survive.

If you want to complain about inflation and taxes you are misdirecting your anger, which should be pointed at Donold Trump. His 2017 tax plan included a stealth tax increase at all income levels that the corporate media ignores. The tax law sunsets at 10 years except primarily for two provisions. Anything lasting over 10 years had to be revenue neutral. One provision, Trump's corporate tax decrease is permanent law. How did he offset the cost of that and keep it revenue neutral? A 2nd provision changed the inflation adjustment of the income tax brackets, slowing them down at all levels of income. That is effectively a tax increase on all of us. So you are out here worrying about the super wealthy and ignoring the guy with his hand in your pocket.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/27/573556101/taxpayers-may-feel-a-bite-from-a-new-way-of-tracking-inflation

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My only point is that if you change a tax rate for one type of investment relative to others, you're going to change investment decisions at the margin. I never said I was worried about the super rich and I'm not; I'm sure they'll continue to do just fine. I do worry about how this tax might change investment decisions, because I'm not smart enough to know whether it will be beneficial or not.

Here's how I got 98%. SP goes from 3853 to 5635 for a gain of 1782 and tax of 795. 5635 adjusted for 20.9% cumulative inflation yields an adjusted figure of 4657 for an adjusted gain of 804.

The median U.S. worker is better off by $1,400 since 2019. Thank you President Biden.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna168579

bear2034 said:

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The Democrats threw out Biden with the trash at the DNC.

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More dumbass BS from bear2034.

No GDP comparison. And never mind that 3.1 million jobs were lost during Trump 's term.

Youre not very smart.
Youre perpetually dumb.

President Biden's worst year for jobs was better than Donold's best year

Donold's Great Depression of 2024 Watch:

2nd quarter GDP has been revised up to 3.0% growth. The "bloody" (per sealion003) stock market activity posted a new record high for the Dow Jones. I prefer the S&P 500 which did not hit a record high last week. The S&P 500 is still bloody, I presume.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-29/us-economy-expands-at-revised-3-rate-on-resilient-consumer?srnd=homepage-americas

oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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More dumbass BS from bear2034.

No GDP comparison. And never mind that 3.1 million jobs were lost during Trump 's term.

Youre not very smart.
Youre perpetually dumb.

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Covid caused the job loss, you old fool.

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What caused the pandemic to be a lot worse than it should've been?

GoOskie said:

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oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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More dumbass BS from bear2034.

No GDP comparison. And never mind that 3.1 million jobs were lost during Trump 's term.

Youre not very smart.
Youre perpetually dumb.

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Covid caused the job loss, you old fool.

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What caused the pandemic to be a lot worse than it should've been?

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Lying Democrats and Stupid Republicans

DiabloWags said:

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More dumbass BS from bear2034.

No GDP comparison. And never mind that 3.1 million jobs were lost during Trump 's term.

Youre not very smart.
Youre perpetually dumb.

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Bro, you've resorted to using dajo's distorted line of thinking now. This is what happens when you pay money to read Peggy Noonan.

oski003 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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More dumbass BS from bear2034.

No GDP comparison. And never mind that 3.1 million jobs were lost during Trump 's term.

Youre not very smart.
Youre perpetually dumb.

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Covid caused the job loss, you old fool.

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He's only regurgitating what he hears in his own bubble.

bearister said:

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tRumponomics explained:

Trump plans would add $5.8 trillion to national debt


https://www.axios.com/2024/08/28/trump-harris-national-debt-election

pic.twitter.com/G1Tj9tQKHV

— mike luckovich (@mluckovichajc) August 28, 2024

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They are both economic disasters.

More tax cuts and more free stuff.

Like drug addled idiots with parents' credit cards on a weekend binge in Vegas.

But capital gains tax on unrealized capital gains? Why? Are we going to allow deduction for unrealized capital loss? Set basis again every year? Inflation adjustment? Bankrupt CA when there is the next market correction?

Price increase limits on free market commercial transactions?

Raise taxes on corporations and reinvite corporate inversions, especially in the midst of Pillar 2 of GloBE? Now that we are having other countries at least raise taxes to a minimum rate, we are going to trip over ourselves to destroy all that progress to avoid countries from recruiting global corporations and dare them to reorganize outside the US?

Even if I vote for Harris (because Trump has to go), I will be more inclined to vote for more conservative folks in Congress. I cannot allow these economic morons to keep relitigating failed policies.

Not that Republicans are any better with no backbone to reform Social Security and Medicare and to increase personal income tax.

bear2034 said:

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JUST IN: $2.8 trillion asset manager Goldman Sachs fires 1,300 employees.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) August 30, 2024

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I guess you weren't paying attention when Elon Musk took over Twitter.

calbear93 said:

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bearister said:

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tRumponomics explained:

Trump plans would add $5.8 trillion to national debt


https://www.axios.com/2024/08/28/trump-harris-national-debt-election

pic.twitter.com/G1Tj9tQKHV

— mike luckovich (@mluckovichajc) August 28, 2024

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They are both economic disasters.

More tax cuts and more free stuff.

Like drug addled idiots with parents' credit cards on a weekend binge in Vegas.

But capital gains tax on unrealized capital gains? Why? Are we going to allow deduction for unrealized capital loss? Set basis again every year? Inflation adjustment? Bankrupt CA when there is the next market correction?

Price increase limits on free market commercial transactions?

Raise taxes on corporations and reinvite corporate inversions, especially in the midst of Pillar 2 of GloBE? Now that we are having other countries at least raise taxes to a minimum rate, we are going to trip over ourselves to destroy all that progress to avoid countries from recruiting global corporations and dare them to reorganize outside the US?

Even if I vote for Harris (because Trump has to go), I will be more inclined to vote for more conservative folks in Congress. I cannot allow these economic morons to keep relitigating failed policies.

Not that Republicans are any better with no backbone to reform Social Security and Medicare and to increase personal income tax.

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Very few politicians, at least those that get covered by the media and thus get elected, discuss openly these dire problems that face this country. It's disheartening.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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bear2034 said:

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JUST IN: $2.8 trillion asset manager Goldman Sachs fires 1,300 employees.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) August 30, 2024

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I guess you weren't paying attention when Elon Musk took over Twitter.

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The snowflakes left on their own, Elon fired the rest who weren't doing anything or didn't want to come into the office to work. You never paid attention to anything.

When people ask me why I own Bitcoin I just send them this video of Kamala Harris explaining how to fix inflation.pic.twitter.com/gfbCHH1DhR

— The ₿itcoin Therapist (@TheBTCTherapist) August 31, 2024

Just stick with Vanguard ETF's so you don't have to worry about it.

GoOskie said:

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Seems on point for you to be posting something from a crypto bro. trumpers and scams go hand in hand.

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When it gets to the point where even you are seriously posting about bitcoin, then I'll take it as indicator that it's the top of the cycle and offload some coin for profit taking.

bear2034 said:

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GoOskie said:

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Seems on point for you to be posting something from a crypto bro. trumpers and scams go hand in hand.

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When it gets to the point where even you are seriously posting about bitcoin, then I'll take it as indicator that it's the top of the cycle and offload some coin for profit taking.

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So says the guy that's never once shared how much Bitcoin he owns after having been repeatedly asked.
But hey, everyone is a massive BALLER on the internet.

Yawn.

All you need to start is to own a single Satoshi. One hundred million of them make up a single bitcoin. Or, buy one of the handful of bitcoin ETFs from your brokerage firm.

wifeisafurd said:

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Typical dinner with friends: Listen to all the problems I have with Joe Biden, and why I will vote for him when he runs against Trump again...

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I am happy when I can discuss politics (or anything for that matter) with friends. I don't care who they vote for. I may have different opinions but that's just what they are. I've known many of my friends for far longer than I've known their political views. The fact that we are still friends means way more than who or what they are voting for.
I hope you have friends that are voting for some different things/people than you. That's a part of a rich life, in my opinion.