The Non-Yogi Israel-Palestine war thread

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bearister
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LIVE: Israel launches missile attack on Isfahan in response to Iran assault | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/4/19/live-israel-launches-missile-attack-in-response-to-iran-assault
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Palestinian Chicken
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Unit2Sucks said:

bearister said:


Here we go.


https://abc7news.com/israel-gaza-updates-israeli-missiles-hit-a-site-in-iran/14691392/
Pretty ballsy move. Will be interesting to see how the Biden and Iran react. Especially right before we were going to write a multi billion dollar check to Israel.
I hope all you Biden voters have young sons in those prime draft ages so you can finally get some skin in the game for your breathless war advocacy


movielover
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I read earlier today that we gave Bibi the green light to have new Military moves against Hamas, in a new area, in lieu of striking Iran. I guess they want both. Ugh.

Iran previously said if they were hit again, they would respond quickly.

It seems like Israel really wants a broader war, and wants to pull us into it.

MinotStateBeav
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cbbass1
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Israel & U.S. might be finding out -- the hard way (like Ukraine) -- that they're overconfident in their military competence, and underestimated their opponent.

The Missiles of April - Iran's retaliatory attack on Israel will go down in history as one of the greatest victories of this century.

Checkmate - The Iranian defeat of the US-Israeli missile defense architecture has global security consequences.

God help us.
cbbass1
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Vocabulary Update:

Two words that you might see more often in discussions of International Relations: Vassal and Suzerain.

Discussing the relationships between States, the subordinate is a Vassal, of Vassal State, and the Suzerain is the dominant state.

Examples:
  • "The United States is a suzerain; the nations of the EU and NATO are its vassal states."
  • "Israel is a suzerain, while the United States is its vassal state."
Cal88
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It is becoming increasingly clear as to what side in this conflict are the real terrorists.


cbbass1
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sycasey said:

Seems like Iran just wanted to do something that looks tough but wouldn't actually provoke a war.
Iran was very specific about what they wanted to do, and they did it. The signal they were sending is, "Nowhere is safe. We can hit anything, even your most protected military sites."

The various wars that the U.S. has been fighting over the previous years have taught potential U.S. enemies exactly how to defeat the U.S. military at its weakest points.

Iran, and Hamas, know exactly how, and how deep, to build their tunnels to be impervious to "bunker-buster" bombs.

And Iran & the Houthis know how to evade the Iron Dome & Patriot missile defenses. Just send cheap drones at them until they run out of ammo. Why do you think Hamas launches cheap, weak rockets over the wall? They're not doing it to hurt anyone -- they're doing it to use up Iron Dome ammo. This is why the U.S. shot down so many of the Iranian drones -- so Israel could save their ammo.

What also became obvious from Ukraine is that the U.S. may have the most expensive military, but our "defense" contractors are over-financialized. They're far more focused on profits and share buybacks than supplying weapons. They still can't produce anywhere near as many artillery rounds as they need, and they're still looking for subcontractors to set up manufacturing. They're still years away from being able to produce what they need. And soon, the anti-missile interceptors will be in short supply. Iran can produce drones way cheaper & faster than the U.S. can supply interceptors.

Israel & Jordan are likely to find out how vulnerable they are -- the hard way.


Quote:

The targets Iran struck -- two air bases in the Negev desert from which aircraft used in the April 1 attack on the Iranian consulate had been launched, along with several Israeli air defense sites -- were directly related to the points Iran was trying to make in establishing the scope and scale of its deterrence policy. First, that the Iranian actions were justified under Article 51 of the UN Charter; Iran retaliated against those targets in Israel directly related to the Israeli attack on Iran, and second, that Israeli air defense sites were vulnerable to Iranian attack. The combined impact of these two factors is that all of Israel was vulnerable to being struck by Iran at any time, and that there was nothing Israel or its allies could do to stop such an attack.

This message resonated not only in the halls of power in Tel Aviv, but also in Washington, DC, where US policy makers were confronted with the uncomfortable truth that if the US were to act in concert with Israel to either participate in or facilitate an Israeli retaliation, then US military facilities throughout the Middle East would be subjected to Iranian attacks that the US would be powerless to stop.



Unit2Sucks
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Unit2Sucks said:

bearister said:


Here we go.


https://abc7news.com/israel-gaza-updates-israeli-missiles-hit-a-site-in-iran/14691392/


Pretty ballsy move. Will be interesting to see how the Biden and Iran react. Especially right before we were going to write a multi billion dollar check to Israel.
It looks like the Israeli strike was intended to "get the last word" but also to de-escalate. Similar to Iran's 2 yards and a cloud of dust response that caused no damage but on a much smaller scale.

Iran says they have no retaliation planned and dismissed the attack entirely, even pretending that it was an internal strike. Israeli hardliners are disappointed in the scale of the attack and it appears international pressure (eg Biden) had the intended effect. The US expected Israel to issue some sort of reprisal and although they may not have known exactly when or where, they weren't caught by surprise that it would be something like this.

All of the excessive handwringing over this escalating into WWIII or putting the US at some sort of risk was just more hysteresis fueled by Russian disinformation (from Kremlin tools like convicted pedophile Scott Ritter who is likely the subject of Putin Kompromat given his predilections) and wishful thinking by radicalized anti-Americans.

From Times of Israel:
Quote:

Iran has no plan for immediate retaliation against Israel, a senior Iranian official said Friday, as officials in Jerusalem indicated that an alleged drone attack on a city south of Tehran was meant to send a signal rather than cause damage.

The Iranian official also cast doubt on whether Israel was behind the attack in Isfahan, despite comments from some Israeli politicians practically accepting responsibility.

Together with a subdued response from official Iranian media organs, the senior official's comments indicated that Tehran may be uninterested in risking war to make good on threats that it would attack Israel should it retaliate for a weekend missile and drone attack, and was seeking a way to avoid being held to the bellicose promises.

"The foreign source of the incident has not been confirmed," the Iranian official said on condition of anonymity.

"We have not received any external attack, and the discussion leans more toward infiltration than attack."
Quote:

"It's important Iran understand that when it acts against us, we have the ability to strike any point and we can do enormous damage we have a capable air force and the US on our side," former national security adviser Eyal Hulata told Army Radio.

The Israeli response was thought to have been tempered by international pressure to make sure that the reply did not further escalate tensions.

"Nobody wants war with Iran right now," Netanyahu confidant Natan Eshel was quoted saying by journalist Ben Caspit. "We proved to them that we can infiltrate and strike within their borders and they weren't able to inside ours. The messages are more important than the grandstanding. We currently have more important tasks both in Gaza and Lebanon.
Quote:

"It's good for us that the Iranians are telling this narrative, that it was drones, birds, just a field outside of Isfahan," Zvika Haimovitch, a former commander of the IDF air defense array, told Channel 12. He said both countries were allowing each other "room for cover and denial," which would enable the situation to de-escalate.

"It's too early to say that it's over," former national security adviser Ephraim Halevy told Army Radio. "But there's a difference between the Iranian attack and the Israeli response which is intended to send a message and not result in widespread and significant [damage]."

However, CNN quoted a regional intelligence source as saying that direct state-to-state strikes between Israel and Iran were "over," and assessed that Iran would not respond.
sycasey
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If the US really wanted to defeat Iran militarily they almost certainly could. It just wouldn't be worth all the destruction, lost life, and expense. Iran knows this and doesn't actually want a direct war. They just want to poke.
cbbass1
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sycasey said:

If the US really wanted to defeat Iran militarily they almost certainly could. It just wouldn't be worth all the destruction, lost life, and expense. Iran knows this and doesn't actually want a direct war. They just want to poke.
It's true that Iran really doesn't want direct war. But they're not about to lay back & absorb the bombing of their Consulate, the assassination of their physicists on Iranian territory, and let Bibi push them around like he pushes Biden.

Iran's attack wasn't a "poke". It was to establish deterrence.

Israel's counter-counter attack was a "poke." It was Bibi saying, "F--- your deterrence. We'll do what we want, and the U.S. & Western media will back us up 100%. We DARE you to attack us."

On U.S. ability to defeat Iran -- If they resorted to nuclear weapons, then yes. But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.

On top of that, if it escalates, the next step is for Iran to close the Strait of Hormuz. The Houthis, of course, will close the Bab al Mandab Strait. ALL shipping will be shut down. That means $10/gallon gasoline during an election year -- IF you can find it. Food and products disappear from store shelves.

All U.S. warships will be sitting ducks. Iran has way more cheap drones than the warships have interceptors. How will they be re-supplied? What's our inventory & our production capacity?

China & Iran have a mutual defense agreement. What happens to the U.S. when China stops shipping products to the U.S.?

We can't supply enough weapons to Ukraine. Even if Congress passes the $60 Billion, there are no 155mm artillery shells on the shelf. What few we have are now in Israel, for their war with Hezbollah.

IF China decides to move on Taiwan, there's not much that the U.S. can do. We simply don't have the production capacity to support simultaneous wars in Ukraine, Gaza, Northern Israel/Lebanon, Iran, and Taiwan.

For a ground war with Iran, it would take 8 months for the U.S. to move troops & materiel in place.

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve has 17 days of oil remaining.

Then the questions arise:
  • How are you going to pay for that?
  • Who are you going to get to fight this war?

At this point, the world will be U.S. & Israel vs the BRICS. Europe, Japan, S. Korea, & Australia will realize that the U.S. has no ability to defend them, and that their best move is to remain neutral

The USD is not likely to survive as the world's reserve currency. Foreign investors in U.S. equities & real estate will likely try to cash out, so they don't suffer the same fate as the Russian oligarchs & have their $$ stolen. The U.S. will default on its Treasuries.

With the corporate/Western media demonization shifting to Iran, my concern is that the U.S. NeoCons are the most likely to use nuclear weapons in a first strike, and use their media dominance to blame everything on Iran. Their reliable pattern is to always double down.
movielover
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Colonel Douglass McGregor argues that China won't move on Taiwan - that they already have friendly relations, and if we cut off trade with China - raw materials and purchasing finished goods - they're cooked.

How cheap are the cheapo Iranian drones?

Our 44 4 star Generals and Admirals still can't figure out how to create a surge capacity in ammunition, nor build a stockpile.

McGregor says going forward there are two types of ships - submarines & targets.
CaliforniaEternal
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This man is incredible. The mullahs can go left but themselves.

Unit2Sucks
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cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
movielover
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A new attack.





dajo9
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Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
movielover
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They could make gas $10 a gallon real quick.
Cal88
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dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

Iran has thousands of advanced missiles, this is not Saddam's army or arsenal. They can hit any number of US bases in the region, or anything that floats in the gulf or Arabian Sea nearby.

Ships are especially vulnerable because their missile stock is finite, and the phalanx guns can't handle salvoes with multiple warheads coming down.
sycasey
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dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

Well, that's the thing. We "won" in Iraq. Saddam went down. It just wasn't worth it.
dajo9
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sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

Well, that's the thing. We "won" in Iraq. Saddam went down. It just wasn't worth it.


Did we win? We humiliated ourselves with our conduct and set our international relations way back.
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
Palestinian Chicken
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Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
From the man who thought Ukraine was winning
Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

Well, that's the thing. We "won" in Iraq. Saddam went down. It just wasn't worth it.


Did we win? We humiliated ourselves with our conduct and set our international relations way back.


You can't "win" a forever war. We've proven that multiple times.

The ridiculous point that he made was that Iran is holding all the cards, can hit any target they want and can defend against our (and Israel's) attacks. That's nonsense. If we wanted to turn Iran to glass, we have the offensive capability to do so.

Iran might be able to land a few punches, but the US (and Israel) would come over the top with overwhelming force by air. We obviously have no interest in boots on the ground kicking down doors in Iran but our air superiority is not in doubt.

Just so we are all clear, I expect someone is bound to show up with Russian propaganda to claim otherwise. Feel free to fact check my posting history and that person's posting history.

sycasey
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dajo9 said:

sycasey said:

dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.


The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

Well, that's the thing. We "won" in Iraq. Saddam went down. It just wasn't worth it.


Did we win? We humiliated ourselves with our conduct and set our international relations way back.
In the narrow sense of toppling the existing government, yes. But as you note, the cost of doing so was not worth the effort.
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
I mean, this guy was also in here talking about how Russia clearly had the strongest military in Europe, right before they started struggling to advance in Ukraine, so I don't know why anyone should listen to his military analysis. (And as I have noted many times, he also kept on claiming that Russia would never actually invade Ukraine, even after the invasion had already begun.)
movielover
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What country in the EU is stronger, today?

Its correct Russia started out slower, and their military may have been the same size (manpower) or less than NATO-US-trained Ukraine. Some claim Putin just wanted to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table, Biden even said a small incursion would be OK, but that didn't work.

So Russia geared up, added to its robust manufacturing capabilities, while France can't even outfit the 20,000 men Macron wants to send to Ukraine.

bear2034
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dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.
movielover
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Was it officially Pullout Interruptus?
dajo9
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bear2034 said:

dajo9 said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
The Iraq War is the guide here. I don't know about winning a war with Iran. Doubtful. Unless you think we won the war with Iraq. Here's the deal. We could **** up Iran just like we ****ed up Iraq. Lots of dead people. Iran could not **** us up like that. I'm against being involved in the Middle East.

The sons and daughters of the deplorables are done being involved the Middle East too. I know you think Biden should deserve more credit for pulling out of Afghanistan but because he pulled out in reverse order, he'll never get the credit due to the loss of life and billions of dollars of equipment that could have been easily avoided.


The deplorables voted to send their children to Iraq. I'm glad they've come around to my side on that issue.
"The rules were that you were not going to fact check"
MAGA
Unit2Sucks
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sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
I mean, this guy was also in here talking about how Russia clearly had the strongest military in Europe, right before they started struggling to advance in Ukraine, so I don't know why anyone should listen to his military analysis. (And as I have noted many times, he also kept on claiming that Russia would never actually invade Ukraine, even after the invasion had already begun.)
They also like to tell us that Russia isn't in Europe (when it suits them), that way when they make claims about some place being the worst in Europe, they can exclude Russia from consideration. Putin88 used to do that when he claimed Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe even though Russia is more corrupt.

As for the strongest individual military, it doesn't really matter on an individual basis because NATO is clearly superior in the aggregate. At this point, Russia's military has been sufficiently weakened, particularly on the personnel side, so while they are rearming, they are not going to be anywhere near their pre war strength for quite some time.

This post will be met with breathless responses from shills, including quotes from one US official about Russia "re-constituting" but the Pentagon estimates Russia is more like 7 years away. And that is to get back to pre war strength that we all know wasn't sufficient to take on NATO in any meaningful capacity.

Russia's true threat is combining military aggression with corruption/misinformation/interference. The most valuable asset they have has proven to be their influence with Trump and the GOP, which they used to cut off US aid for the last year. If the US had continued to support Ukraine as we had been, the war would have been relatively static over the last 6 months. If the US had stepped up from day one and sent more sooner, who knows how many lives could have been spared.

The shills will respond to this with misinformation pointing to articles that say Ukraine is currently in bad shape as if it somehow contradicts the people who say that losing US support badly impacted Ukraine's war effort. Had Russia not received support from Iran, NK and China, the war would have been an even bigger disaster for Putin.

I note that under no circumstances would the notion of "victory" ever really made sense for Ukraine, because Putin places no value on Russian personnel and he would have continued to engage in the war, and lied about his successes, regardless of what was happening on the ground. We've all seen that over the last 2 years. We should have allowed Ukraine to strike Russia much earlier in the war because that may have caused Putin to lose support before the escalation of commitment which has occurred as Russia has been mired in this extensive and massively costly military campaign. War is not a zero sum game and both Russia and Ukraine have suffered greatly for Putin's ego.
oski003
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Unit2Sucks said:



Russia's true threat is combining military aggression with corruption/misinformation/interference. The most valuable asset they have has proven to be their influence with Trump and the GOP, which they used to cut off US aid for the last year. If the US had continued to support Ukraine as we had been, the war would have been relatively static over the last 6 months...

The "shills" will respond...



With facts, such as the fact that the U.S. sent 11 billion to Ukraine in July and August of 2023, as well as 330 million in September 2023 as well as 200 million in December 2023. Keep accusing people of being shills and spouting firehouses of falsehoods though!
movielover
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NATO is stronger than Russia? Says who?

Apparently you aren't aware or are being purposefully disingenuous about NATO, the EU, & Uncle Sam scavenging the world for artillery shells and ammunitions.

Then you purposefully mistate Putins reckless regard for life. Indeed, Russia starts with shelling positions, then send in drones, then more shelling, and then they eventually send in ex cons to ferret out the remaining opposition. Recently they started using glide bombs to clear out trenches. Over a year ago an inside Western military analysis detailed the lopsided kill ratio in Russia's favor.

Ukraine is irreparably broken, and we're sending more young people to be slaughtered in a Fool's Errand. Given the West's hopeless position, we continue to read suggestions of using 'tactical nukes'.

I guess UKR will have to lose another 100-200K men bc of Biden's poor election position.
Cal88
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Unit2Sucks said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

cbbass1 said:

But in a conventional war, Iran is holding all the cards. They've already shown that they can hit any target they want inside Israel, even when they give the U.S. & Israel days to prepare.



I stopped reading after this. And then I had a good laugh for a few minutes.

You are so deep in misinformation you have no idea which way is up. You pretty much have everything backwards.
I mean, this guy was also in here talking about how Russia clearly had the strongest military in Europe, right before they started struggling to advance in Ukraine, so I don't know why anyone should listen to his military analysis. (And as I have noted many times, he also kept on claiming that Russia would never actually invade Ukraine, even after the invasion had already begun.)
They also like to tell us that Russia isn't in Europe (when it suits them), that way when they make claims about some place being the worst in Europe, they can exclude Russia from consideration. Putin88 used to do that when he claimed Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe even though Russia is more corrupt.


Russia was 3 times richer per capita than Ukraine before the start of the war in '22. Ukraine was and is far more corrupt than Russia. Ukraine started out as the richest, most advanced, most industrialized state in the USSR then fell into a decrepit oligarchy in the 90s, and stayed there, while in Russia Putin mopped up the oligarchs, paid up the state debt incurred by Yeltsin and invested heavily into their infrastructure. Zelensky is the product of one of the worst oligarchs in EE, Kolomoisky, who also funded several fascist militias.




Quote:

As for the strongest individual military, it doesn't really matter on an individual basis because NATO is clearly superior in the aggregate. At this point, Russia's military has been sufficiently weakened, particularly on the personnel side, so while they are rearming, they are not going to be anywhere near their pre war strength for quite some time.

This post will be met with breathless responses from shills, including quotes from one US official about Russia "re-constituting" but the Pentagon estimates Russia is more like 7 years away. And that is to get back to pre war strength that we all know wasn't sufficient to take on NATO in any meaningful capacity.



This statement was by deputy Secretary of State Campbell, he is, however, lying here, Russia is far stronger now than it was 2 years ago. They went from a 20th century army to the most advanced army in the world in terms of drone usage, world's best land army today, and are building more tanks, more shells and more drones than all of NATO combined - many times over in fact. Russia's standing army is twice the size it was before the war, and they are highly experienced in 21st century tactics.

I would say that Russia is "taking on NATO in a meaningful way today", in fact they have been kicking NATO butt. You have to be, like U2S, in a completely different planet to not understand this, people who still believe that Russia is going to run out of ammo, that their tanks and equipment is crap, that their leadership is incompetent etc...



Russia Has Ground Down Ukraine's Army and Defeated NATO's Doctrine | Col. Jacques Baud
movielover
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The numbers I've read says Russia's army has tripled in size. Logic would suggest they're rotating men, so they'll eventually have a million men with live experience.

In what world would RUS not seek a beneficial relationship with Iran, NK, China, India, and maybe Turkey?
bearister
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movielover said:


……..I guess UKR will have to lose another 100-200K men bc of Biden's poor election position.




Trump's post came the day after he praised Poland, following a meeting at Trump Tower in New York with Polish President Andzrej Duda."
https://www.reuters.com/world/donald-trump-says-ukraines-survival-is-important-us-2024-04-18/


So Duda must have convinced tRump that Putin is Westward Ho! That being the case, you can't vote for tRump either. RFK Jr.?

*Yes, I know that the invasion would never have occurred if statesman tRump was in the Oval; and the late Vincent Bugliosi would have convinced that unanimous jury to convict OJ instead of acquitting him; and Terry Malloy coulda been a contenda, but the invasion did take place and tRump made that statement.
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Cal88
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movielover said:

The numbers I've read says Russia's army has tripled in size. Logic would suggest they're rotating men, so they'll eventually have a million men with live experience.

In what world would RUS not seek a beneficial relationship with Iran, NK, China, India, and maybe Turkey?

The Russian army is still growing, by about 25,000 troops per month, from volunteers. New personnel gets several months of training before being shipped out to the front, with troops rotating.

Historically speaking, Russia has been an archenemy of Iran/Persia and China. The Russian empire carved out Azerbaijan and Manchuria/Vladivostok from these countries. US policies however have solidified their alliance.
 
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