OT: What to do about the Russians?

52,177 Views | 672 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by Unit2Sucks
gobears725
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joe yaks;842839108 said:

Good grief. That's the kind of thinking that lost the election for the DNC.


im not being that serious and no id never advocate for literacy tests but in general i do believe that trumps ability to manipulate low IQ voters(see above post by burritos lol) is why we're(the country, not the DNC) in the position we are in. cant say i like people that truly are that stupid though.

If it were truly left up to the educated in this country to make the call, I think it would have been Sanders vs Cruz/Rubio. All of which would be better than what we have now.
sycasey
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OdontoBear66;842839112 said:

I spoke of my feelings about the Benghazi matter after watching the Rice/HRC talking points, not the Benghazi investigation or situation at all. When Rice went on TV shortly thereafter (five or six Sunday morning shows) and talked of the video I felt she was lying, just like dajo and you probably think the Trump team is lying about the Russia matter. I was equating my suspicions at that time to what I suspect are yours. I was not equating the Benghazi situation to the Russia situation for that only opens a can of worms and argument again (which I think I indicated).


Fair enough. When I first heard the story from Rice and the seeming contradictions later, I also found it fishy.
okaydo
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joe amos yaks
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gobears725;842839118 said:

im not being that serious and no id never advocate for literacy tests but in general i do believe that trumps ability to manipulate low IQ voters(see above post by burritos lol) is why we're(the country, not the DNC) in the position we are in. cant say i like people that truly are that stupid though.

If it were truly left up to the educated in this country to make the call, I think it would have been Sanders vs Cruz/Rubio. All of which would be better than what we have now.


Go Bernie and thrive.
sp4149
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I suppose we can't handle the truth about Benghazi. But the CIA had 100 heavily armed mercenaries next door engaged in a covert op that could have wiped out the protestors and terrorists before they got started. The State Department took one for the team but the CIA could have saved the Ambassador but their hands were dirty and they did nothing. We fight a lot of our overseas conflicts with mercenaries; they made off with billions in Iraq, but when it comes to protecting our State Department overseas only two out of a hundred were willing, and they were late to the show.


sycasey;842839120 said:

Fair enough. When I first heard the story from Rice and the seeming contradictions later, I also found it fishy.
BearNIt
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Did Comey tell Trump he was not under investigation at a dinner and two other times? Did Trump asked for Comey's loyalty but was declined? The explanation of Comey's firing has come unraveled as reports indicate that the Deputy A.G. threatened to quit if the administration didn't stop pushing the narrative that that he pushed for Comey's firing. It sounds like every Trump and their associates is under investigation at this point. What are they hiding, and what are they afraid of? Who will testify first, Flynn or Manafort?
BearChemist
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BearNIt;842839144 said:

Did Comey tell Trump he was not under investigation at a dinner and two other times? Did Trump asked for Comey's loyalty but was declined? The explanation of Comey's firing has come unraveled as reports indicate that the Deputy A.G. threatened to quit if the administration didn't stop pushing the narrative that that he pushed for Comey's firing. It sounds like every Trump and their associates is under investigation at this point. What are they hiding, and what are they afraid of? Who will testify first, Flynn or Manafort?


That dinner happened the dat after Sally Yates called WH counsel regarding Flynn. Trump's big mouth just keeps spitting out clues, must be fun being on his staff.
dajo9
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Now our President is tweeting ominous messages to the recently fired Director of the FBI. What a statesman.
Bobodeluxe
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"He's a showboater. He's a grandstander."
NYCGOBEARS
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Bobodeluxe;842839175 said:

"He's a showboater. He's a grandstander."

Trumpy will not abide being upstaged.
Bobodeluxe
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"James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!"
GB54
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Grandstanding Trash Talking Comey is the Richard Sherman of law enforcement
Bobodeluxe
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ECONOMIST: Priming the pump?
TRUMP: Yeah, have you heard it?
ECONOMIST: Yes.
TRUMP: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good.
dajo9
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Trump has firmly established grounds for impeachment in the last 24 hours:
Obstruction of Justice, by saying he fired Comey over the Russia investigation
Intimidation of a Witness, by threatening Comey who is now a witness to the above

I'm not in any rush though. I prefer to move slowly and gather up the whole crowd. As long as we have a fair investigation making progress I am good. At this point it is pretty clear where this is headed. I wouldn't want to be a GOP representative holding Trump's water in 2018.
BearNIt
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Clapper when interviewed indicated regarding Trump investigation that if there was a possibility that it would devolve into a criminal investigation that he would defer to the FBI. It was outside his scope to to clear anyone from criminal wrongdoing. He also confirms that Comey was invited by the White House for dinner and that Comey expressed his uneasiness with the invitation and the optics of the FBI attending such a dinner. Why would Trump tweet a threat regarding Comey and suggest that he had been recorded?
Unit2Sucks
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Will "a few exceptions" be the new "alternative facts"? Waiting for Assad to say he has never used chemical weapons, with a few exceptions

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/333105-trump-lawyer-claims-his-tax-returns-show-no-income-from-russia-with
BearChemist
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Unit2Sucks;842839203 said:

Will "a few exceptions" be the new "alternative facts"?


Cal Football have gone to Rose Bowl every year, with a few exceptions.
socaliganbear
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Yep... the Clapper defense can pretty much be put to bed. He flat out doesn't know, or so he says.
85Bear
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gb54;842839179 said:

grandstanding trash talking comey is the richard sherman of law enforcement


lol
calbear93
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BearNIt;842839201 said:

Clapper when interviewed indicated regarding Trump investigation that if there was a possibility that it would devolve into a criminal investigation that he would defer to the FBI. It was outside his scope to to clear anyone from criminal wrongdoing. He also confirms that Comey was invited by the White House for dinner and that Comey expressed his uneasiness with the invitation and the optics of the FBI attending such a dinner. Why would Trump tweet a threat regarding Comey and suggest that he had been recorded?


Because you are witnessing what may be the most incompetent WH staff in the history advising a president who doesn't like to listen to advice.
dajo9
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calbear93;842839211 said:

Because you are witnessing what may be the most incompetent WH staff in the history advising a president who doesn't like to listen to advice.


I'm sure Trump will pivot any day now
okaydo
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calbear93;842839211 said:

Because you are witnessing what may be the most incompetent WH staff in the history advising a president who doesn't like to listen to advice.


Nonsense. After watching 18 seasons of The Apprentice, I can affirm that Trump is really skilled at hiring the best people. For example, in Season 12. Everybody watching would've picked Clay Aiken. But Trump new better and tapped Arsenio Hall as his apprentice.
Bears2thDoc
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dajo9;842839181 said:

Trump has firmly established grounds for impeachment in the last 24 hours:
Obstruction of Justice, by saying he fired Comey over the Russia investigation
Intimidation of a Witness, by threatening Comey who is now a witness to the above

I'm not in any rush though. I prefer to move slowly and gather up the whole crowd. As long as we have a fair investigation making progress I am good. At this point it is pretty clear where this is headed. I wouldn't want to be a GOP representative holding Trump's water in 2018.


Start buying the popcorn....
The Republicans, to save their own skin, will eventually start impeachment proceedings.
Trump will resign, Pence will take the helm.
The Russian investigation continues to ramp up.
2018 mid terms will give the House of Reps to the Dems.
The investigation will implicate Pence and his new VP
Pence will be impeached.
New VP will resign.
Welcome the first woman president of the United States......... Madam President Nancy Pelosi.
calbear93
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I will say this. If the Democrats abandon its identity politics, speech censorship driven by political correctness and protection of feelings, class war and hostility toward Christians, they have a prime opportunity in the comings four years to be the governing party. Trump and the Republican congressmen's cowardice have opened the door to a swing in momentum and governance. If Democrats revert back to to platitudes, political correctness, cowering to special interest groups (whether labor or specific minority groups at the cost of inclusion of everyone), and blaming the rich, then they deserve what they get. However, if they appeal to the greater value of all of us being Americans (not black, white, gay, straight, etc), all of us being driven by self-determination and accountability, basic human decency and compassion for each other (not as a means of punishing the rich but as a means of helping our neighbors), then the Republicans deserve to be booted out for their cowardice and putting policy before country. I have a feeling that the Democrats will revert to far left than to greater inclusion. They will rely on aging of the baby boomer generation instead of realizing that there are more conservative young people now that there have been in a long time. I don't care which party ends up getting it, but most of us want those who put America before choosing sides or party.
dajo9
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Bears2thDoc;842839215 said:

Start buying the popcorn....
The Republicans, to save their own skin, will eventually start impeachment proceedings.
Trump will resign, Pence will take the helm.
The Russian investigation continues to ramp up.
2018 mid terms will give the House of Reps to the Dems.
The investigation will implicate Pence and his new VP
Pence will be impeached.
New VP will resign.
Welcome the first woman president of the United States......... Madam President Nancy Pelosi.


I don't think Trump would ever resign. That is incredibly out of character for him. But I was thinking the same thing about President Nancy Pelosi this morning, by potentially a double impeachment of Trump and Pence (pending what evidence comes out regarding Pence). That would be described by the right as a coup d'tat. If justice brought things down that road I think Pelosi would have the good character to announce she would not run for re-election in 2020 - sort of a George Washington statesperson moment. Of course we are way, way down the speculative road at this point. Would be ironic if we got our first woman President after all though.
okaydo
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calbear93;842839216 said:

I will say this. If the Democrats abandon its identity politics, speech censorship driven by political correctness and protection of feelings, class war and hostility toward Christians, they have a prime opportunity in the comings four years to be the governing party. Trump and the Republican congressmen's cowardice have opened the door to a swing in momentum and governance. If Democrats revert back to to platitudes, political correctness, cowering to special interest groups (whether labor or specific minority groups at the cost of inclusion of everyone), and blaming the rich, then they deserve what they get. However, if they appeal to the greater value of all of us being Americans (not black, white, gay, straight, etc), all of us being driven by self-determination and accountability, basic human decency and compassion for each other (not as a means of punishing the rich but as a means of helping our neighbors), then the Republicans deserve to be booted out for their cowardice and putting policy before country. I have a feeling that the Democrats will revert to far left than to greater inclusion. They will rely on aging of the baby boomer generation instead of realizing that there are more conservative young people now that there have been in a long time. I don't care which party ends up getting it, but most of us want those who put America before choosing sides or party.


Hillary lost because her potential voters weren't enthusiastic for her in the way they were enthusiastic for Obama. Trump won because his potential voters were enthusiastic about him.

It had nothing to do with all those liberal stereotypes you identity.

Obama endorsed gay marriage in the summer of 2012 ... and went on to win a majority of the votes and the Electoral College.

Obama and Hillary were each more Christian than Trump, who's basically not Christian at all. AT ALL. He's the antithesis of Christianity.

And yet Trump was elected.

It is the Republicans, not the Dems, who are reliant on the aging and dying Baby Boomer population.

A lot of those old people who voted for Trump will be dead in November 2020.

Meanwhile, a lot of the young people born at the end of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 -- who are more likely to be liberal and accepting of other "identities" -- will be voting for the first time. These young people grew up in a world where it's frowned upon to grab women's vaginas without permission.

As I showed upthread, all the anti-Trump people need to do is unite behind one candidate.

And, as I pointed out earlier, we're only in the 24th month of the Daily Trump Drama. There will be 42 months to go. By then, me thinks that the country will be exhausted by all this.
calbear93
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okaydo;842839221 said:

Hillary lost because her potential voters weren't enthusiastic for her in the way they were enthusiastic for Obama. Trump won because his potential voters were enthusiastic about him.

It had nothing to do with all those liberal stereotypes you identity.

Obama endorsed gay marriage in the summer of 2012 ... and went on to win a majority of the votes and the Electoral College.

Obama and Hillary were each more Christian than Trump, who's basically not Christian at all. AT ALL. He's the antithesis of Christianity.

And yet Trump was elected.

It is the Republicans, not the Dems, who are reliant on the aging and dying Baby Boomer population.

A lot of those old people who voted for Trump will be dead in November 2020.

Meanwhile, a lot of the young people born at the end of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 -- who are more likely to be liberal and accepting of other "identities" -- will be voting for the first time. These young people grew up in a world where it's frowned upon to grab women's vaginas without permission.

As I showed upthread, all the anti-Trump people need to do is unite behind one candidate.

And, as I pointed out earlier, we're only in the 24th month of the Daily Trump Drama. There will be 42 months to go. By then, me thinks that the country will be exhausted by all this.


Okaydo - stop thinking only about the presidency. Think why the Republicans gained in both houses when they were more at risk. But I agree that what you posted is consistent with what I am hearing from my Democrat friends. I have a feeling that they will waste this opportunity to take both the WH and the Congress that Trump is handing to them.

And I said nothing about gay marriages. As long as churches are not forced to perform gay marriages, I am fine with the government recognizing gay marriages. What I am saying is that catering to specific groups (identify politics engaged in by the Democrats, especially HRC) will not work for the Democrats. Most Americans want to be viewed as, and view other Americans as, just Americans...not the white group, black group, women, men, gay, straight. I want a candidate who says we can do great things together...kind of what Obama said when he first ran and Kennedy said that inspired a whole generation. Not ...we will make sure you...a special group...will be emphasized in my administration.

Also, look at this article.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservative-generations/

The Democrats thought that the Republicans had no chance with the increase in minority voters and younger generation. What you don't get is that most people are generally conservative - if you consider conservative as self-determination and self-reliance, accountability, fiscal responsibility. Even if neither party is really conservative, at least the Republicans fake it more during election.
Strykur
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calbear93;842839222 said:

Also, look at this article.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservative-generations/

The Democrats thought that the Republicans had no chance with the increase in minority voters and younger generation. What you don't get is that most people are generally conservative - if you consider conservative as self-determination and self-reliance, accountability, fiscal responsibility. Even if neither party is really conservative, at least the Republicans fake it more during election.


Not only that, take a look at this:



The younger millennial set is not disenchanted with the left per se, but they are wary of conforming to existing political and popular culture norms. If you want to be non-conformist, edgy and anti-establishment, what better stance to take than be a pro-Trumper?
dajo9
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calbear93;842839222 said:


The Democrats thought that the Republicans had no chance with the increase in minority voters and younger generation. What you don't get is that most people are generally conservative - if you consider conservative as self-determination and self-reliance, accountability, fiscal responsibility. Even if neither party is really conservative, at least the Republicans fake it more during election.


In regards to what I bolded, the Democrats were thinking in terms of the popular vote and we were correct about that. Hillary beat Trump by 3 million votes. Trump threaded the needle to win the electoral college. It still remains that the Republican candidate has won only one Presidential popular vote contest in the last 7 elections. The Republican Party has a problem at the Presidential level even before the Trump humiliation.

As far as the rest of the traits you describe, I relate to and support all of them. Unfortunately, life is more complicated than just living by those platitudes.
GB54
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dajo9;842839226 said:

In regards to what I bolded, the Democrats were thinking in terms of the popular vote and we were correct about that. Hillary beat Trump by 3 million votes. Trump threaded the needle to win the electoral college. It still remains that the Republican candidate has won only one Presidential popular vote contest in the last 7 elections. The Republican Party has a problem at the Presidential level even before the Trump humiliation.

As far as the rest of the traits you describe, I relate to and support all of them. Unfortunately, life is more complicated than just living by those platitudes.


Hillary Clinton wasn't thinking of the popular vote that would make her a complete moron. She was thinking of ways to win the electoral college
okaydo
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calbear93;842839222 said:

Okaydo - stop thinking only about the presidency. Think why the Republicans gained in both houses when they were more at risk. But I agree that what you posted is consistent with what I am hearing from my Democrat friends. I have a feeling that they will waste this opportunity to take both the WH and the Congress that Trump is handing to them.

And I said nothing about gay marriages. As long as churches are not forced to perform gay marriages, I am fine with the government recognizing gay marriages. What I am saying is that catering to specific groups (identify politics engaged in by the Democrats, especially HRC) will not work for the Democrats. Most Americans want to be viewed as, and view other Americans as, just Americans...not the white group, black group, women, men, gay, straight. I want a candidate who says we can do great things together...kind of what Obama said when he first ran and Kennedy said that inspired a whole generation. Not ...we will make sure you...a special group...will be emphasized in my administration.

Also, look at this article.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/health/millennials-conservative-generations/

The Democrats thought that the Republicans had no chance with the increase in minority voters and younger generation. What you don't get is that most people are generally conservative - if you consider conservative as self-determination and self-reliance, accountability, fiscal responsibility. Even if neither party is really conservative, at least the Republicans fake it more during election.


Young people and minority voters weren't enthusiastic about Clinton, which is why Bernie Sanders and the 3rd party candidates did so well.

That paper you linked to gets something wrong: it describes millennials as having been born between 1980 and 1994. In fact, millennials are called "millennials" because they are the first generation to enter adulthood in the new millennium. (those born in 1982 and later).

(Sorry -- it's my pet peeve when people get millennials' starting birth year wrong.)

Somebody born in 1980 turns 37 this year ... they are pushing 40 and are already going grey (such as 1980-born Chris Pine). They would've been in high school at the same time (two classes below) the new president of France.

The article also states, "millennials are more likely to identify as conservative than either Generation Xers or Baby Boomers were at the same age." But weren't Gen Xers and Baby Boomers defined by being super-liberal when they were young?
calbear93
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okaydo;842839230 said:

]


OK, part of me hopes that the Democrats don't change their tactics because I think any party having both the WH and Congress is dangerous. You can rationalize this any way you want and talk about popular vote versus electoral college. All I will say is that, however, you want to dissect this, the Democrat's tactics resulted in DONALD TRUMP winning the presidency even with many Republicans like me abandoning my party and voting for HRC. Let that sink in truly before you guys think you are good with the status quo in tactics.
socaliganbear
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Strykur;842839223 said:

Not only that, take a look at this:



The younger millennial set is not disenchanted with the left per se, but they are wary of conforming to existing political and popular culture norms. If you want to be non-conformist, edgy and anti-establishment, what better stance to take than be a pro-Trumper?


You really just linked the InfoWars guy. Dear lord.

The logic that leads anyone to believe that being pro a socialite manhattanite (ultra coastal elite) who inherited wealth and a major family name is either edgy or counter culture is incredible.

Trump is not counter culture, he's has spent a life time sucking up to the prevalent culture. He's just loud.
Strykur
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socaliganbear;842839234 said:

You really just linked the InfoWars guy. Dear lord.


But he is not wrong. Even you agree with him.
GB54
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The Democrats have a "rest of the country" problem. They do well in urban areas and both coasts but need to reinvigorate their base in the Midwest and capitalize on the changing South. Nationally, they are a disaster, having lost 1000 federal and local seats nationwide, they control 16 governors and 14 state legislatures. The way back is not through identity politics, they already have those votes and I'm not sure they drive elections. Hell, a majority of white working class women voted for Trump against the women candidate. The Democrats have to return to their roots. Promote universal health care, tax capital, increase corporate taxes, fight for jobs, unions and, yes, a guaranteed income. One of the blessing of this election was getting rid of the Clinton's and their globalization horses$it. It says something when people swallow Trump's anti- corporate diatribes because they know Hillary is always dropping to her knees in front of big bills
 
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