Golden One said:
blungld said:
Golden One said:
Unit2Sucks said:
Yes, I'm sure history will prove that I was the crazy one and that Trump was a great president.
Your first sentence above is correct! Congratulations! That's the first true comment you've made in a heckuva long time.
Hand on the Bible, do you really believe that or you just doing the back and forth arguing? You really believe that Trump will be considered a great president and that he has not only accomplished a lot, but that what he has accomplished is good, and that there are things he has done that improved the country that are not just ongoing trends of the nation that he had little to do with and would have been true no matter the president? I really want to know your answer to that. Do you REALLY think Trump is a great president and will be considered so in the future?
Yes, I really believe what I've posted. I never said that Trump would be considered a great President. I'm not sure that we've had a great President in the last 50 years, except possibly Reagan. I do think Trump has done a good job against consistent and vocal obstructionism from the Democrats. There have been a lot of fake attacks lodged against , like Russia collusion and the whole Mueller investigation, which was a complete ruse. I've detailed many of Trump's accomplishments during his first 3 1/2 years (as have other posters), and I won't repeat them here.
From where I sit, I can't see a single policy that has been good for the nation or a single result that has improved the country that he gets credit for. There have been some things done by Congress--that he actually was forced to support, and a lot of riding the economy left to him by Obama.
Please read the detailed list of accomplishments posted by me and others in prior posts.
The only thing I see that perhaps he gets credit is a spike in the stock market, but that was at a tremendous cost to the overall economic health of the country, benefitted a few, benefited him and his donors, and was artificially stimulated through corporate socialism and criminal de-regulation and speculation on an inflated and roller-coastering market (can you say insider trading?). The stock market did not rise on the tremendous health of the overall economy and a rise in innovation and expansion of consumer wealth and health of the middle class, this was a gambit by the donor-class.
The phenomenal rise in the stock market doesn't affect a few, it affects anyone with a 401K Plan or a pension plan. That means it benefits most Americans. It doesn't help Democrats on welfare or the permanent jobless, which are in the Democrat base.
So I really have no clue what it is you celebrate about him and why you think he would be seen as a great president. Instead I see a known criminal, an unindicted co-conspirator, an impeached president, who has not accomplished anything, who lies to his people, who uses propaganda and force to control his people, who breaks laws, who is self serving, favors cronyism and nepotism, whose incompetence has cost the lives of over 100K Americans, who destroys allies and stands with dictators, and has brought the country to hatred of one another in a tribal society. This is not name calling, this is an accurate description.How do you stand with this?
Clinton was impeached legitimately. Trump was impeached falsely in a 100% partisan effort without merit. Regarding nepotism, see Biden (Joe and Hunter). The current societal conflict has largely been created by the widespread Trump Derangement Syndrome conceived and perpetuated by Democrats, especially Pelosi and Schumer. It actually started by Hillary Clinton, when she referred to Trump supporters as "deplorables". And cut out that cra*p about Trump costing the lives of over 100K Americans. You know well that those deaths were caused by the COVID-19 virus, which Trump did not create or cause. In fact, if Trump had followed the path recommended by leading Democrats, including Biden, Pelosi, and Schumer, the loss of lives would have been much greater. They strongly criticized him and called him xenophobic when he quickly shutdown travel from China and Europe. Those moves saved countless lives. Trump has actually done quite a good job dealing with the virus. If he deserves any criticism it's for following too blindly the advice of Fauci and other so-called experts, who changed their recommendations with alarming frequency.
You want to act like his response to COVID doesn't count, but that was the test of his presidency. He failed. He made it worse. He owns the economic collapse and the deaths, because a better response from him mitigates all of that.This isn't about Obama, but as an example, he was handed the worst economic collapse since Great Depression and he SOLVED it. He didn't make it worse or say that doesn't count.Where he started and where he ended was miles apart on a huge upward swing. Trump started up and is ending down, but that doesn't count? He has no responsibility?
You're completely wrong about COVID. If you want to see a poor response to the virus, look at New York and New Jersey--both run by Democrat governors. Cuomo, especially, did a terrible job. He is directly responsible for thousands of deaths by sending infected people into nursing homes. Cuomo, who is no supporter of Trump, actually commended and thanked Trump more than once for his COVID response that saved the state of New York from a real disaster. So did the Democrat governor of New Jersey and Gavin Newsom. The way Trump responded with fully-staffed hospital ships, construction of temporary hospital capacity, manufacture of ventilators, production and distribution of PPE, and Operation Warp Speed (which will result in one or more vaccines in record time) are all phenomenal achievements that only the most blind of leftists would even try to denigrate. Trump gets an "A" for his COVID response.
I 100% believe that if your mind was blanked, and you just opened your eyes today and there were not such things as political parties, you would see Trump exactly as I see him and only do not see him clearly because the R next to his name and the indoctrination of your news sources.
I assure you that my mind is wide open. As a former Democrat, I don't follow political labels. I adhere to a political philosophy that promotes freedom, liberty, individual initiative and responsibility, and respect for others of all races, ethnicities and creeds. I recognize that that philosophy runs afoul of the beliefs of most leftists. That's their problem, not mine.
Liberalism is a mental illness.
Thank you for the civil response. There is no real point in responding to your individual points. We are dealing with two different sets of facts.
That said, I have to editorialize on one assumption. I honestly do not understand how you can believe what you you wrote about Trump's response to COVID. I don't follow the logic that if you can identify a Democrat governor (why are you always fishing for party?) who you think did something wrong with the virus, then it exonerates Trump for not having a national coordinated response like every other first world country. I assure you if Clinton were president there would have been a science-driven response, an organized national effort, and the number of deaths here would look a lot more like the rest of the world. We are an outlier in our results, because we have an outlier leader who took no responsibility, did NOT have a national response, downplayed if not disregarded the science, and treated the pandemic as a political threat rather than a public health emergency.
May I please make a suggestion, or request? Can you stop calling people who disagree with you lefties and saying we suffer from TDS and that our beliefs are a mental illness? Ultimately it does not matter what you say, but you are one small part of a larger problem that is dividing the country.
You can see that I am an articulate person. I am not a total fool. I am a successful American who has a family and runs businesses. I went to Cal a university you love. I had to have some intelligence to be accepted there. And these things are true of all the people you debate here. So how about you teat us with respect? Feel free to advocate for your opinions, but that doesn't mean simply mock other people. That is not an actual position. What you have here are a lot of very smart and accomplished people who have come to different conclusions and analysis than you. That doesn't mean we are crazy, or sick, or have a syndrome, it means that thoughtful people can disagree. It might also be a signal to you that there is something to what we are saying that is worth considering. Calling someone else crazy is a lazy form of debate, but more importantly what it says about you is that opposition opinion is threatening and if you treated it as equal it might be persuasive and so the emotional shortcut is to call it crazy so that you are justified in ignoring it.
There is no such thing as TDS. There is no virus infecting over 50% of Americans brains. You can disagree with the sentiment or have a different opinion, but the anger you see are regular Americans feeling that one man is getting away with lying and cheating and corrupting the country and they are angry about it. You disagree. But if you did think those things wouldn't you be angry too? And wouldn't you be more angry if instead of being heard, other people patronized you and said your anger is just you being crazy?
So when in Berkeley we had the Free Speech Movement, agree or disagree, but they were angry about Vietnam and injustice, they didn't have War Derangement Syndrome. They had something legitimate to be angry about and they expressed it to get attention and marshal change. When the Civil rights movement happened they didn't have White Power Derangement Syndrome, they wanted racial justice. Women's suffragettes were not "hysterical" they wanted equality. It has always been the norm that those who stand against protest or changes in society try to dismiss the protests as illegitimate and crazy. This is what is happening now too.
So, as I have said, have your own opinions. State them as opinions and not facts. Don't speak for others and say what they believe or what they want to do (you miss characterize what BLM is and what Liberals want in almost every post). We are smart, we can tell you what we want or what we stand for if you ask us and then you can disagree if you want and say what it is you think and believe.
But the repeated pattern here is you make extreme statements that mock the opposition and say what they believe and who they are without asking first and without really stating who you are or what you believe. Then when others try and clarify their actual position, you either change the subject, mock that response, name call, don't respond, or try and turn it around and accuse them of calling you names or telling you what to think. Yes, that is a pretty broad generalized description, but you get the point.
The easy response to this post would be to search through my words and find something hypocritical in them. I am sure there are hypocrisies so I am already conceding that. I am also conceding that Democrats are not perfect. That our actions don't always match with our ideals. And that every poster on BI has at some point done the very things I am describing as unproductive. And that you are called names on these boards. I call you OneNote for example (I will however point out that the names directed at you came AFTER many many posts by you of name calling others and OneNote is not exactly a viscous attack) But, all hypocrisy you can find aside, I am making this request of YOU. I am asking YOU if you are willing to take responsibility for what you post and try and change the tenor of the discourse, not for you to find someone else (myself included) who has been discourteous so therefore you can be too.
It is my OPINION (see it's not a fact, it's what I think which might be interesting for you to consider that someone thinks this) that you are one of the most unfair antagonistic posters on the board. I think you pick fights and name call rather than share insights that might change other's opinions by the weight of their logic or cogency. Most of your posts simply mock people for thinking something different than you (but you are not the worst offender). I don't believe that you really would act this way to people in person. And I don't think you really want to just "win" debates because you were able to shut the other person up or not hear something you disagree with or might make you think. I don't think you really think shouting down opposition is winning.
So please, as a gesture of trying to make the OT boards a better place and some small gesture of de-participating in the tribalism and fracture of the country, would you please remove the footer saying liberalism is a mental illness and stop calling us lefties, and not use terms like TDS? I guarantee you will receive the same treatment in response if you make these changes and also change your tone. Thank you.
