heartofthebear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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heartofthebear said:

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Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.

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I'm a centrist, and I did think Trump ran more moderate if not left of Clinton on various issues. The revisionists seem to forget how the election went. Trump was all over the place philosophically and won a lot of votes on the fact that Clinton was a bought and sold by Wall Street and those countries that contributed to the Clinton foundation. The latter played right into Trump's America First dogma. There was always Trump saying that, I don't usually agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is right about [then fill it in]

How Donald Trump is running to the left of Hillary Clinton ...www.chicagotribune.com nation-world ct-trump-cli...

Pssst...Trump: You Won By Running to Clinton's Left ...progressive.org dispatches pssst...trump-won-runnin...

Clinton was an open book and that worked against her. Trump was veiled and Clinton seemed to focus on the sins of being a businessman, which was a bit bizarre coming from a woman who had made a fortune on Wall Street speaking tours. We knew Trump had an ego, but no one really got his narcissistic personality (maybe the Chinese did), a horrible administrator that can't retain people (strange for a guy who ran a big company), and all the other things that make him toxic that you point out, regardless of policy (though his policies seem ill defined other than he goosed the economy with spending and tax cuts).

In any event, Biden will be the next President, and it is time to move on from Hillary Clinton.

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I actually thought Trump was a moderate. I did not know he would galvanize a white supremisist movement and allow them to become so militant. Nor did I think he would form the justice department as a means to allow partisan corruption. Those are the things I think of when I use the word toxic.

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I think it well beyond even that. He is petty, such as denying fire relief funds.

bearister said:

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Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are interesting research projects. Both f@ucking weirdos.

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Hey Dajo thinks that is sexism. If they were weird guys we would call them unique individuals. How dare you?

BTW, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, graduated from Harvard Med schools and had a successful internal medicine practice for 25 years. She became a Green because she though Main Street Democrats were beholden to Wall Street interests and would not pass legitimate campaign reform. You call weirdo, but many posters on this weirdo site would actually agree with her views and activism. You might not like her views, but she is a good speaker, and intelligent, and she is principled enough in those views to protest and be arrested. Reducing her to fing weirdo stars may say more about you.

Guddard is the Olliie North of Hawaii. Great accomplishment. First Hindu woman in congressman, major in the armed forces, lot of medals, I think the youngest woman elected the House, etc. Than again she has done some non-conformist things for a Democrat, including working for an anti-gay organization, and she is a hawk on foreign affairs. You may not want to call her a fing weirdo to her face, since she will kick your arse (she is a marital arts teacher). Since this is Hilary thread, you might dwell on that Gabbard resigned as DNC vice chair on February 2016, in order to endorse Sanders for the nomination for President of the United States, .she was the first congresswoman to endorse Sanders, even gave the nominating speech putting his name forward at the 2016 Democratic Convention. Sounds like you may be doing Hilary's bidding big guy.

wifeisafurd said:

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bearister said:

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Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are interesting research projects. Both f@ucking weirdos.

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Hey Dajo thinks that is sexism. If they were weird guys we would call them unique individuals. How dare you?

BTW, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, graduated from Harvard Med schools and had a successful internal medicine practice for 25 years. She became a Green because she though Main Street Democrats were beholden to Wall Street interests and would not pass legitimate campaign reform. You call weirdo, but many posters on this weirdo site would actually agree with her views and activism. You might not like her views, but she is a good speaker, and intelligent, and she is principled enough in those views to protest and be arrested. Reducing her to fing weirdo stars may say more about you.

Guddard is the Olliie North of Hawaii. Great accomplishment. First Hindu woman in congressman, major in the armed forces, lot of medals, I think the youngest woman elected the House, etc. Than again she has done some non-conformist things for a Democrat, including working for an anti-gay organization, and she is a hawk on foreign affairs. You may not want to call her a fing weirdo to her face, since she will kick your arse (she is a marital arts teacher). Since this is Hilary thread, you might dwell on that Gabbard resigned as DNC vice chair on February 2016, in order to endorse Sanders for the nomination for President of the United States, .she was the first congresswoman to endorse Sanders, even gave the nominating speech putting his name forward at the 2016 Democratic Convention. Sounds like you may be doing Hilary's bidding big guy.

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Instead of realizing your sexism (b**ch) or the sexism upstream that I also noted (dumb blonde) you just keep going with the cool guy deflection act. Yes, it works on an off topic football board. In real life though, you're just sexist.

You're not a moderate. You're a sexist establishment conservative. There is so little support for your worldview that Trump just took your party and trashed it. That doesn't make you a moderate. It makes you voiceless. Who is running for President this year that supports your worldview? 2016? Nobody.

wifeisafurd said:

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BTW, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, graduated from Harvard Med schools and had a successful internal medicine practice for 25 years. She became a Green because she though Main Street Democrats were beholden to Wall Street interests and would not pass legitimate campaign reform.

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She's right, of course.

dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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bearister said:

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Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are interesting research projects. Both f@ucking weirdos.

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Hey Dajo thinks that is sexism. If they were weird guys we would call them unique individuals. How dare you?

BTW, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, graduated from Harvard Med schools and had a successful internal medicine practice for 25 years. She became a Green because she though Main Street Democrats were beholden to Wall Street interests and would not pass legitimate campaign reform. You call weirdo, but many posters on this weirdo site would actually agree with her views and activism. You might not like her views, but she is a good speaker, and intelligent, and she is principled enough in those views to protest and be arrested. Reducing her to fing weirdo stars may say more about you.

Guddard is the Olliie North of Hawaii. Great accomplishment. First Hindu woman in congressman, major in the armed forces, lot of medals, I think the youngest woman elected the House, etc. Than again she has done some non-conformist things for a Democrat, including working for an anti-gay organization, and she is a hawk on foreign affairs. You may not want to call her a fing weirdo to her face, since she will kick your arse (she is a marital arts teacher). Since this is Hilary thread, you might dwell on that Gabbard resigned as DNC vice chair on February 2016, in order to endorse Sanders for the nomination for President of the United States, .she was the first congresswoman to endorse Sanders, even gave the nominating speech putting his name forward at the 2016 Democratic Convention. Sounds like you may be doing Hilary's bidding big guy.

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Instead of realizing your sexism (b**ch) or the sexism upstream that I also noted (dumb blonde) you just keep going with the cool guy deflection act. Yes, it works on an off topic football board. In real life though, you're just sexist.

You're not a moderate. You're a sexist establishment conservative. There is so little support for your worldview that Trump just took your party and trashed it. That doesn't make you a moderate. It makes you voiceless. Who is running for President this year that supports your worldview? 2016? Nobody.

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So here is the hypocrite that has nothing to say to the guy that called the women without any provacatioin f'ing weirdos, while we watch "Creepy Joe" (complete with website) Biden vs Donald "Personality Disorder" Trump play out. Name call all you want.

" You may not want to call her a fing weirdo to her face, since she will kick your arse (she is a marital arts teacher)."

wifeisafurd said:

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dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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bearister said:

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Jill Stein and Tulsi Gabbard are interesting research projects. Both f@ucking weirdos.

---

Hey Dajo thinks that is sexism. If they were weird guys we would call them unique individuals. How dare you?

BTW, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard, graduated from Harvard Med schools and had a successful internal medicine practice for 25 years. She became a Green because she though Main Street Democrats were beholden to Wall Street interests and would not pass legitimate campaign reform. You call weirdo, but many posters on this weirdo site would actually agree with her views and activism. You might not like her views, but she is a good speaker, and intelligent, and she is principled enough in those views to protest and be arrested. Reducing her to fing weirdo stars may say more about you.

Guddard is the Olliie North of Hawaii. Great accomplishment. First Hindu woman in congressman, major in the armed forces, lot of medals, I think the youngest woman elected the House, etc. Than again she has done some non-conformist things for a Democrat, including working for an anti-gay organization, and she is a hawk on foreign affairs. You may not want to call her a fing weirdo to her face, since she will kick your arse (she is a marital arts teacher). Since this is Hilary thread, you might dwell on that Gabbard resigned as DNC vice chair on February 2016, in order to endorse Sanders for the nomination for President of the United States, .she was the first congresswoman to endorse Sanders, even gave the nominating speech putting his name forward at the 2016 Democratic Convention. Sounds like you may be doing Hilary's bidding big guy.

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Instead of realizing your sexism (b**ch) or the sexism upstream that I also noted (dumb blonde) you just keep going with the cool guy deflection act. Yes, it works on an off topic football board. In real life though, you're just sexist.

You're not a moderate. You're a sexist establishment conservative. There is so little support for your worldview that Trump just took your party and trashed it. That doesn't make you a moderate. It makes you voiceless. Who is running for President this year that supports your worldview? 2016? Nobody.

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So here is the hypocrite that has nothing to say to the guy that called the women without any provacatioin f'ing weirdos, while we watch "Creepy Joe" (complete with website) Biden vs Donald "Personality Disorder" Trump play out. Name call all you want.

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F'ing weirdo isn't sexist. Insulting a woman isn't sexist. You guys really don't get it, even still, after all this time.

heartofthebear said:

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concordtom said:

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For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!

Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.

Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?

Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.

So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???

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I didn't think there was anything wrong with Hillary.
But I am a progressive, and there was not very much right with her either.
The whole span from Bill to Al Gore to Obama and then Hillary convinced me that the Democrats were committed to centrism and that doesn't work for me. Nor do I think it works for the country and the world.

Also, I think it is poor political strategy for the Democrats to come up with candidates that are not enough contrast with the Republicans. I believe it is that strategy that gave rise to Reagan, the Bushes and Trump. Biden also is not much of a contrast to your average Republic but Trump has become so toxic that Biden will likely succeed anyway. If Hillary was running now, she would probably be just about as popular anyway because of how bad Trump has gotten. But Biden has a much more popular personality that Hillary did in 2016. Biden is more human and less arrogant in his attitude. Clinton did not handle the Bernie movement well and many gave her the finger during the election. Biden was smarter and worked better to keep from alienating the progressive vote.

Finally, the country is changing. It took 4 years of Trump, the coronavirus and blatant climate change for the country to wake up to the fact that progressive policies are the best policies for the future of our planet. 4 additional years of Bernie campaigning helped to bring progressive issues into the narrative. Now the media embraces them more than in 2016. 4 years ago, Trump actually seemed more progressive on many issues. Now that illusion is completely blown up. Trump speaks to his base only, even though it is about 30% of the public. Another percentage of Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what, just because they hate Democrats. But Trump will not be getting any other vote this time, unlike last time.

I do not buy the constant BS about Hillary that comes out Fox news et. al. But I do think she is somewhat corrupt in the sense that her foreign policy is too militaristic and she is too steeped in corporate backing for my liking.

I hope that answered your question.

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Good answer. Thank you for the contribution. I'm on board, and agree. I change the GOP registration for Indep. long ago. But I never voted D until Obama. I think I skipped a couple of elections before, can't remember. I did want Gore, for his environmental stance (wife read his book in early 90's in college) but I wasn't really sold on him. I was "open" to an R in 2016, but then when Trump showed up, NO WAY!!!! And since then, he's (and the spineless GOP who have showed horribly, like dog***** on the sidewalk) pushed me likely into a lifelong D position. I cannot believe that the R party has gone where they have gone. It's just shocking to me.

Bernie is for free education? Well, now I am too, because there's no way other than lack of education that people should be supporting Trump. We have shown ourselves to be too stupid.

Thanks again for your thoughts, an add.

dajo9 said:

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You folks who are here accusing Hillary of committing the crime of erasing subpoenad emails. What is the evidence?

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Crickets

concordtom said:

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For 4 years I've heard how 2016 was a choice between two very unlikeable candidates. And sure, Hillary was no June Cleaver, but she was smart, passionate, and experienced. Works for me!

Knocks against were were mysterious and made up in my mind.

Benghazi, please!
Whitewater and options trading profits? Escaped me.
Email server in unsecured closet? Stupid but not disqualifying.
Email content? There was nothing there, right?
Stand by your cheating husband? Personal choice, no?

Meanwhile, compared to 2016 Trump, she WAS June Cleaver, and compared to 2020 Trump, that favorability rating only improves, big time. Hillary as Jesus, our woulda been, coulda been savior! If only, we'd have avoided these last 4 years of endless insults and crimes, hypocrisy and waywardness.

So tell me, why was she so unlikeable again???

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Clinton and her supporters love to blame everyone else for her loss. The fact is that she ran against the most hated, weakest candidate ever to run for President and lost and that was her fault. I think she would have been a very competent President. She was a terrible candidate and part of that is because of arrogance.

Did being a woman hurt her? Yes. Cry me a river. That is a known quantity going in. I might feel some sympathy for her if her campaign didn't dogwhistle and flat out whistle whistle the hell out of the 2008 primary. They thought Obama was a joke because he was Black. They didn't see the danger there when he was the only candidate that could beat her. Then when they saw the danger, they played the "he can't win because he's Black" card hard. When that didn't work, they switched to he's too extreme. They played the Reverend Wright card. That was the Clinton campaign, not the Republicans. Only Obama came out and did something Clinton could never do. Effectively respond. If Hillary Clinton were a man running against a woman, the campaign would have played the anti-woman card just as hard as the Republicans.

Have the Republicans slammed her every chance they get? Yes. Ask McGovern about that. Ask Willie Horton. Ask Al Gore about inventing the internet, only he never said that or anything close to it. Ask Kerry about having his distinguished military record swiftboated. Ask Obama about being a Muslim and birtherism. Please. She didn't face anything any Democrat doesn't face. And the Clintons have always, more than any other Democrat, given as good as they got on the dirty politics game.

She lost because whatever you think about their governing, the Clintons have always acted like they could get away with anything. Attacks that hurt are the ones that dovetail right in to what the public already thinks. Did Republicans lie about the email situation? Yes. Did she open herself up to it by keeping her own server because why the eff should she have to do what everyone else does? Yes. But to be clear, if they didn't have emails, they would have had other things like the Clinton Foundation. I don't care if they never touched a dime, (and I don't think they did). You can't solicit donations from powerful people around the world, including leaders, when you know you are going to run for President. That was pure Clinton. Who cares about appearance of propriety. We'll win anyway.

This is why she lost. The Midwest hates her. This is why they hate her.

1. I don't stay at home baking cookies
2. I don't just stand by my man.

Start with that. She had years to do something, anything, to make up for that. It was a slap in the face to their way of life. She had so many opportunities to show she learned from that. She didn't. For instance, Bill cheating is a good way to say " you know I said I don't stand by my man, but push came to shove and I did. I did because I realize that love and family were important to me."

Never made one ounce of effort to fix that. It was a big "I think I'm better than you" message that she left hanging there. Then:

3. She doubles down on "I'm better than you" with "basket of deplorables".
4. The email crap which she could have prevented, is one more "I can get away with anything, and I do" story.

And if you are better than people, you think you know what is best for them without considering their opinion. People don't like that. She didn't respect them

Then to compound things, she ignored them, both on message and actually physically. She had three states she needed to win. She took them for granted. She did the equivalent of having a 7 point lead in basketball with 3 to play and chucking 3's because you want to beat the spread. They were so worried about having a mandate that they didn't do what they needed to do to win.

Her fault. Any realistic Democratic candidate would have won.

Is Trump guilty of pretty much all of the same shyte? Yes. Only some people didn't get that yet. And people in key states were sick of it from her. I think she might have become a popular President at least among Democrats and Independents. But as a candidate, she sucked.

The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

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I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

BearForce2 said:

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sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

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I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

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Upstate is definitely Republican country.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York

sycasey said:

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BearForce2 said:

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sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

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I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

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Upstate is definitely Republican country.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York%2C_2018_results_by_district.svg/1200px-United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York%2C_2018_results_by_district.svg.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York

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Which is, of course, irrelevant for a Senator. It only matters for Congressmen.

Watchdog Man said:

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sycasey said:

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BearForce2 said:

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sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

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I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

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Upstate is definitely Republican country.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York

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Which is, of course, irrelevant for a Senator. It only matters for Congressmen.

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Try to follow the discussion next time, kid.

....but you have to admit, she schlonged Mittens pretty good. Much of your reasoning is flawed because it all passes through a Mittens Bitterness Filter first. Less people would have died if Hillary was POTUS instead of tRump and you have put forth no valid counter argument to that contention.

bearister said:

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....but you have to admit, she schlonged Mittens pretty good. Much of your reasoning is flawed because it all passes through a Mittens Bitterness Filter first. Less people would have died if Hillary was POTUS instead of tRump and you have put forth no valid counter argument to that contention.

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You're debating with somebody using the term Hitlery

sycasey said:

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BearForce2 said:

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sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

---

I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

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Upstate is definitely Republican country.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York

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Chris Mullin said on Warriors pregame that even West Chester county is considered "upstate" to him.

This guy agrees upstate is anything NOT one of the boroughs.

This video says upstate is nyc plus westchester and rocklin counties

These guys debate whether upstate includes the Hudson valley

Maybe the GOP should trade:
You get Puerto Rico as a state, we get NY Upstate as a state.

sycasey said:

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BearForce2 said:

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sycasey said:

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The funny thing is that when Hillary was Senator from New York, she made the effort to go to all the various upstate counties on a "listening tour" and talk to people directly about their concerns. She managed to maintain popularity there (yes, NY is a blue state but she was never threatened at all for her seat). Yet there was very little of that in her Presidential campaigns. It's a bit baffling. It's like she knew exactly what to do but didn't do it.

---

I'm not familiar with upstate NY but do those counties typically vote blue or was she reaching out to the deplorables?

---

Upstate is definitely Republican country.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_New_York

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I used to live in upstate NY and for the most part it is rural farm land. Most of upstate NY is run by republicons except for a few cities like Ithaca, Rochester and Buffalo.

Whoever you are, nothing you post can be taken with any seriousness, even if it is absolutely true.
Your credibility, like Trump's, is completely shot.
You are men just yelling and pissing in the wind.

Spell check! It's Rockland County and Westchester County. Both liberal BTW. Hillary lives in Westchester.

As I said, nothing you say matters.
Could be taken out of context.
Could have not been said at all.
Could be in reference to someone else.
If it's from you, I'm not listening.

Because, you are a party to THIS:
These are your peeps. Go hang out with them.

I agree with Chelsea. White supremacists should be banned from twitter.

Hillary Clinton is trending. Just gonna... leave this right here...😂😂😂 pic.twitter.com/cFEH1dje0d

— il Donaldo Trumpo (@PapiTrumpo) October 12, 2021

Trump, Clinton clash over the e-mails: "if you were in the private sector, you'd be put to jail"

bearister said:

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tRump is an unindicted multiple felon, and HRC is not.

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Trump had 4 years to have his Justice Deparment investigate and find charges to file against Hillary Clinton. I wonder why he never got around to doing that?

He just did Eastern...On his last day in office, he ordered the DOJ to de-classify everything relating to the Russian collusion story. So far, the Biden DOJ has refused this presidential request. Can you guess why????Everyone who follows politics knows that the Russian story was manufactured and paid for by the Hillary campaign and the DNC. The fact that you don't know this either means you know and don't care or you really don't know in which case I'm deeply concerned about your reading/viewing habits.

Same goes for you CT. You either know and don't care or you really don't know in which case you should confine your statements to 'international economics."