Big Ten Rumored To Be Adding Four Prominent Schools This Week

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/big-ten-expansion-rumors-clemson-florida-state-oregon-washington

Who is Alex Ahrend?

Looking more likely that Cal/Stanford may be searching for a chair when the music stops. Neither school seems to be willing to do what's necessary (go full on pro) to really be competitive nor are they ready to drop money sports and reduce the AD to a club sport level. If Clemson/FSU go to the BIG, that opens a couple of spots in the ACC which is probably a better fit than the MWC even if the geography seems odd. It's too bad there aren't enough peer schools in the region to form a western Ivy League and just exit the rat race, an approach probably better suited to the level of commitment our administration, student body and fan base are able to generate.

wifeisafurd said:

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Who is Alex Ahrend?

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Articles by Alek Arend - AthlonSports.com | Expert Predictions, Picks, and Previews

Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Agreed. If true, I hope SEC says hold my beer and goes after them more. Potentially opening up two more spots in the B10 for West Coast teams along with UW and OU.

I commented on another thread here. I've seen that rumor reported, but I haven't seen it picked up by any of the mainstream sports outlets (The Athletic, ESPN, Fox, etc.). From what I've read, the Clemson/FSU move seems to be predicated on the notion that these schools (and Miami, who wants out to go to the SEC) will find 5 friends and vote -- essentially - to (and this is the part I'm still unclear about) dissolve the GOR or dissolve the ACC entirely. I don't entirely understand what would motivate the other 5 schools to do this, but that seems to be the way this is playing out. The other possibility is that Clemson and FSU will simply pony up the billion dollars - they have deep pocketed alums and may simply see this as a cost/benefit proposition.

If this happens, we are down to the PAC 7, and I see no hope that the four corners schools don't jump to the big 12.

Clemson and Florida State don't have enough money to buy their way out of the ACC's GOR.

SoFlaBear said:

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I commented on another thread here. I've seen that rumor reported, but I haven't seen it picked up by any of the mainstream sports outlets (The Athletic, ESPN, Fox, etc.). From what I've read, the Clemson/FSU move seems to be predicated on the notion that these schools (and Miami, who wants out to go to the SEC) will find 5 friends and vote -- essentially - to (and this is the part I'm still unclear about) dissolve the GOR or dissolve the ACC entirely. I don't entirely understand what would motivate the other 5 schools to do this, but that seems to be the way this is playing out. The other possibility is that Clemson and FSU will simply pony up the billion dollars - they have deep pocketed alums and may simply see this as a cost/benefit proposition.

If this happens, we are down to the PAC 7, and I see no hope that the four corners schools don't jump to the big 12.

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Regarding the ACC. I'd have to think North Carolina and Virginia would be willing to dissolve the agreement if they go to the big and fsu, Clemson, Miami go to the SEC.

Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami.

6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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UNC does not suck at everything else, and their football program has had more success over the last 10 years than Cal has.

But all that is moot. The question is, do people in North Carolina watch college football? Because the same question for the bay area is a resounding no.

The rumor WIAF refers to (and is being widely circulated among sources of low-to-mid credibility) is that Clemson and Florida State will go to the B1G.

juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

BearSD said:

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Clemson and Florida State don't have enough money to buy their way out of the ACC's GOR.

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It would essentially be ESPN funding them so that ESPN could pay them even more or so they could jump to Fox. I just don't see how that happens.

I do think ESPN has a huge incentive to back a PAC/ACC merger that maintains the current ACC GORs, gets more money to the top ACC programs and gets the PAC members numbers that would be greater than the Big 12, creating value in their exclusive La we time slots.

juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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UVa might take umbrage with that comparison to Cal. While I agree that UVa isn't a huge athletics brand, they did win the national championship in men's basketball 4 years ago.

OskiDeLaHoya said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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UVa might take umbrage with that comparison to Cal. While I agree that UVa isn't a huge athletics brand, they did win the national championship in men's basketball 4 years ago.

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So what? The UC Berkeley Bears made the first round of the tourney in the last decade.

I remind everyone these are rumors.

calumnus said:

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BearSD said:

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Clemson and Florida State don't have enough money to buy their way out of the ACC's GOR.

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It would essentially be ESPN funding them so that ESPN could pay them even more or so they could jump to Fox. I just don't see how that happens.

I do think ESPN has a huge incentive to back a PAC/ACC merger that maintains the current ACC GORs, gets more money to the top ACC programs and gets the PAC members numbers that would be greater than the Big 12, creating value in their exclusive La we time slots.

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There has been constant debate among lawyer types if contractual ambiguities result in a loophole out of the GOR (or a reduced payment), sufficient to at least have a litigation position that the ACC can't fight financially especially if State AG's hit the ACC with antitrust suits. Maybe there is a negotiated settlement. BTW, if you do the google search, there are many articles about the "ACC 7" that want out of the conference. It isn't just Clemson and FSU.

wifeisafurd said:

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I remind everyone these are rumors.

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Exactly. And rumors need to be evaluated, do they make sense? While most college football fans would naturally think "Of course if it is four, FSU and Clemson are in" the fact is their rights are locked up. The ACC and ESPN is not releasing them to go to the Big 10 and Fox. So it seems highly dubious. Much better chance if it is 4, Cal and Stanford are in.

calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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I remind everyone these are rumors.

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Exactly. And rumors need to be evaluated, do they make sense? While most college football fans would naturally think "Of course if it is four, FSU and Clemson are in" the fact is their rights are locked up. The ACC and ESPN is not releasing them to go to the Big 10 and Fox. So it seems highly dubious. Much better chance if it is 4, Cal and Stanford are in.

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What makes sense to me is FSU, Clemson and Miami to the SEC and NC and another of the ACC 7 to the B1G.

What actually makes the most sense to me is if there is B1G expansion that involves four teams, they are from the Pac, Udub, Oregon, Furd and Cal . They provide a western pod for UCLA and USC, not to mention 4 large TV markets that a streamer would love, thereby bringing to the B1G media deal to get even more money. This obviously would require Fox's blessing. Fox has refused to be involved in the Pac media negotiations, which is rather interesting.

Forgot media deals, we need to sell the whole conference to the Saudi's. Klaviknoff should be sent to Saudi Arabia and not allowed to return until the remaining Pac members are all flush with cash. Then we can finally buy out all our dead contracts and hire some winners.

BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

---

Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

---

I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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Fox has refused to negotiate with the Pac-12 since USC and UCLA announced for the B1G. It definitely feels like they are trying to orchestrate the Pac-12's demise. Fox apparently doesn't mind paying the Big XII more if they poach the worst Pac-12 teams.

berserkeley said:

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BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

---

Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

---

I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

---

"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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Fox has refused to negotiate with the Pac-12 since USC and UCLA announced for the B1G. It definitely feels like they are trying to orchestrate the Pac-12's demise. Fox apparently doesn't mind paying the Big XII more if they poach the worst Pac-12 teams.

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Between Fox not being willing to talk to us, ESPN offering one conference 3x the value of anyone else they work with, and ESPN undercutting the Pac on one of their potential media partners (CW), you almost start to get the feeling that ESPN/Fox resent the Pac. I can't help but think they resent the Pac network. The Pac was the only conference that created their own network completely independent of ESPN/Fox, and they did so with the intent of doing direct to customer distribution. Fox/ESPN were cut out of the process and are now returning the favor.

What's sad to me is these moves long term are going to kill college sports. Regionalism, high amounts of participation, history, tradition, rivalries....these are what make college football great. Getting rid of all of that leaves you with a worse version of the NFL. How popular is AAA baseball? How much revenue does it generate? Why do we think that stripping everything away from College football that separates it from a defacto minor league is going to do anything but turn it into one?

And the worst part is the parties that seem to be driving this, the media companies, are slowly going out of business and being replaced by a new content distribution model. While they cling to existence they are killing the product they are trying to sell, and when they squeeze all of the value out of it killing it, they won't be around to deal with the consequences.

MrGPAC, I like your concluding two paragraphs and agree with you.

As I said elsewhere, the current college football landscape has left a bad taste in my mouth anyway.

Cal did part of it to itself by piping in audio crap, drowning out Cal Band and the student section, and whoring the game day experience. Then, NIL, portal, and now conference re-alignment have really taken something I loved and pretty much ruined it for me.

I keep holding on. But like my shoulder........it's hanging by a thread. At least with my shoulder I can look forward to PRP. I don't see any such hope on the horizon for my beloved Cal football Saturdays, at least as of this moment.

I only take my Twitter gossip from WetBeefs

MrGPAC said:

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berserkeley said:

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BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

---

Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

---

I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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Fox has refused to negotiate with the Pac-12 since USC and UCLA announced for the B1G. It definitely feels like they are trying to orchestrate the Pac-12's demise. Fox apparently doesn't mind paying the Big XII more if they poach the worst Pac-12 teams.

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Between Fox not being willing to talk to us, ESPN offering one conference 3x the value of anyone else they work with, and ESPN undercutting the Pac on one of their potential media partners (CW), you almost start to get the feeling that ESPN/Fox resent the Pac. I can't help but think they resent the Pac network. The Pac was the only conference that created their own network completely independent of ESPN/Fox, and they did so with the intent of doing direct to customer distribution. Fox/ESPN were cut out of the process and are now returning the favor.

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Interesting podcast on this on Yahoo Sports. The columnists involved seem to admit they don't know every detail here, but indicate that they feel the Pac 12 overplayed its hand. They saw the B1G media deal, and thought the PAC ought to get ~ 70% of that, and that there was no appetite to pay that amount. They are also shocked that no deal has been presented, and indicate that the only reason for that is most likely that all the offers are bad.

From the hinter lands of ohio.

What we are hearing back here.

FSU and Clemson, pure speculation and rumor. FSU is planning on doing something by or before 8/15. Clemson completely off the radar (could happen - who knows), they are investing heavily in research and trying to make themselves more attractive to the Big 10 (SEC is in SC with Univ of South Carolina - would they want to double dip?). FSU could go either way from what their sources are saying. FSU loves the SEC and has always wanted to be part of the SEC. But the President of FSU came from Harvard and FSU has been investing heavily in Research. Trying to get into AAU, so it makes sense to want to go to the Big 10.

Go to the Miami boards, they want the Big 10. Their AD has been working awfully hard to align them with the Big 10 (plus the Miami media market is desirable). They got AAU and want the Big 10. There is a saying, the further south you go in Florida, the further north you go (south Florida has many transplants from the NE & Midwest). Miami also heavily recruits students from the NE.

Again, rumors and speculation back here. The Big 10 is waiting for the PAC to collapse before doing anything. They have expressed time and time again that the want to integrate USC & UCLA into the Big 10 before adding anyone (but at the same time have said they do not want USC & UCLA on an island AND that there will be further expansion west at some time). Again, rumors, Fox wants UO and UW in the Big 10. Big 10 Presidents do not want to expand. If Fox can get the financing (CBS & NBC), they might (likely) be willing to expand.

Big 10 Presidents have an interest in Cal & Stanford. Again, speculation, that the Big 10 Presidents could leverage Fox's desire for UO & UW to add Cal & Stanford.

With what is happening in the PAC and now the ACC, the time line is moving up. I believe (and most others who follow alignment), that they did not expect the collapse of the PAC. That it would exist for some time and the Big 10 would come back later. Now with the ACC having issues with schools wanting out (FSU is going to challenge the GOR). The view is that the PAC schools will be there, thus the current focus on the ACC (it may unravel like the PAC). And the Big 10 wants to expand SE to continue their plans of a National Conference.

Interesting times. I would tell you to hold onto your seats, the ride is going to get bumpy.

Also, the SEC may not be able to expand. With Disney having financial issues, this spills over unto ESPN.

airspace said:

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Also, the SEC may not be able to expand. With Disney having financial issues, this spills over unto ESPN.

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That's an interesting point. If the SEC added two more schools, ESPN would be on the hook for another $120 million/year, $60 million per new member.

BearSD said:

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airspace said:

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Also, the SEC may not be able to expand. With Disney having financial issues, this spills over unto ESPN.

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That's an interesting point. If the SEC added two more schools, ESPN would be on the hook for another $120 million/year, $60 million per new member.

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But ESPN would be saving lots of money by not paying the ACC anything because there'd be no ACC.

If FSU and Clemson are gone, UNC, UVa, and Miami are also gone. Some combination of GaTech, VaTech, Duke, and NC State could also be gone to the B1G and SEC. The Big XII will gobble up Pitt and Louisville and any of the other aforementioned teams still available.

Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest will be all that's left of the ACC. And low and behold, Notre Dame suddenly needs a landing spot for its other teams.

berserkeley said:

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BearSD said:

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airspace said:

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Also, the SEC may not be able to expand. With Disney having financial issues, this spills over unto ESPN.

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That's an interesting point. If the SEC added two more schools, ESPN would be on the hook for another $120 million/year, $60 million per new member.

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But ESPN would be saving lots of money by not paying the ACC anything because there'd be no ACC.

If FSU and Clemson are gone, UNC, UVa, and Miami are also gone. Some combination of GaTech, VaTech, Duke, and NC State could also be gone to the B1G and SEC. The Big XII will gobble up Pitt and Louisville and any of the other aforementioned teams still available.

Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest will be all that's left of the ACC. And low and behold, Notre Dame suddenly needs a landing spot for its other teams.

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I doubt the whole thing would collapse that quickly. The Big Ten and SEC are not in the market for a total of 8 ACC teams.

Even if that was a possibility, why would ESPN execs want to blow up the ACC? Many of those execs went to either Syracuse or UNC. And if the Big Ten scooped up the most attractive ACC members, that would benefit Fox, not ESPN who is locked out of the Big Ten.

BearSD said:

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berserkeley said:

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BearSD said:

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airspace said:

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Also, the SEC may not be able to expand. With Disney having financial issues, this spills over unto ESPN.

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That's an interesting point. If the SEC added two more schools, ESPN would be on the hook for another $120 million/year, $60 million per new member.

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But ESPN would be saving lots of money by not paying the ACC anything because there'd be no ACC.

If FSU and Clemson are gone, UNC, UVa, and Miami are also gone. Some combination of GaTech, VaTech, Duke, and NC State could also be gone to the B1G and SEC. The Big XII will gobble up Pitt and Louisville and any of the other aforementioned teams still available.

Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest will be all that's left of the ACC. And low and behold, Notre Dame suddenly needs a landing spot for its other teams.

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I doubt the whole thing would collapse that quickly. The Big Ten and SEC are not in the market for a total of 8 ACC teams.

Even if that was a possibility, why would ESPN execs want to blow up the ACC? Many of those execs went to either Syracuse or UNC. And if the Big Ten scooped up the most attractive ACC members, that would benefit Fox, not ESPN who is locked out of the Big Ten.

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Didn't suggest the B1G and SEC would add 8. Just that they'd add 5 for sure with a couple of maybes and the Big XII scooping up a few leftovers

The B1G and SEC are competing with each other so they won't leave a valuable asset like Miami on the table for the other guys to take. The B1G can wait on adding Pac-12 teams cause the SEC don't want us.

Also, I don't know that all of the B1G and SEC invitees would get a 100% share right out of the gate. As long as those teams make more than in the ACC and have long term stability, they'd jump.

But I still believe they aren't getting out of the GOR. If they did though ...

BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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All message board hyperbole aside, is this really how you think business works?

maxer said:

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BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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All message board hyperbole aside, is this really how you think business works?

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If Georgie made absurd demands, they could easily have cut him off and not bothered to re-engage.

BearSD said:

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maxer said:

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BearSD said:

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juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

---

I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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"almost"?

It's very possible that Empty Suit George pissed off ESPN and Fox so much that they decided to let the Pac burn to the ground.

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All message board hyperbole aside, is this really how you think business works?

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If Georgie made absurd demands, they could easily have cut him off and not bothered to re-engage.

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I have no idea what went on with the negotiations, but there are only 5 "power conferences" and I think it's unlikely that a network would not bid for one that they otherwise would want based on not liking the commissioner.

juarezbear said:

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6956bear said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Clemson and Florida State are SEC programs. Very surprised if this is true.

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Many folks around ACC country believe FSU wants the B1G. And the B1G has them as a potential target. The B1G would love FSU, UNC, UVa and possibly Clemson and Miami

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I find this interesting in that UNC is big in basketball and sucks at everything else. UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball. Curious to hear that the B1G would want them instead of Cal and Furd but who the hell knows these days. It almost feels like Fox and ESPN want to punish the remaining the Pac teams.

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UVa is on par with Cal in terms of football and basketball? Virginia won a national championship in basketball in 2019 and played in the Orange Bowl the same year. Top flight academics and the state of Virginia is coveted by the B1G and SEC.

UNC doesnt "suck at everything else". Blue blood in basketball and generally Top 25 football. good in most other sports, and the state of North Carolina is also coveted by B1G/SEC.