Let me preface this by saying that, obviously, I was not there and don't know what happened. Also, I think these allegations should be thoroughly investigated. That being said, there are too many things in her statements that stand out to me as being strange. In several parts, her words/descriptions of how she felt at the time don't seem to be consistent with her behavior at the time. Of course, this is just my opinion - perhaps just to give a woman's perspective

A coach would frequently hit on her, and, she "got so scared" that she "toss[ed] a water bottle at him and ran away." Seems like flirtatious behavior, not that of a woman that was uncomfortable or scared.

One of the coaches made her extremely uncomfortable, he lurked around on her instagram and "liked all the pictures where I was wearing a bathing suit, even from years past." When she did not reply to the coach's messages, he would humiliate her - and was jealous when she talked to other players - "like he had formed some sort of territory over me." He was "so persistent in his text messages", that it made her very uncomfortable. But, when this coach invited her to the stadium offices at midnight, she went? At midnight? Alone? Come on. And, she says that she went thinking he was going to help her with economics? At midnight, in the football offices? And, she went for tutoring - at midnight - while she was "under the influence"? And, she was amenable to being tutored by a coach that had been aggressively flirting/hitting on with her - one that made her uncomfortable and scared her? NONE of the behavior described is consistent with the fear/lack of comfort she says she felt at the time.

Next, her mom was in Berkeley, visiting her for the weekend. Yet, when she gets the text from the coach at night, she left her mom's hotel room and went to the coach's room? I mean, she had the easy excuse - "sorry, I can't, my mom is here for the weekend. So, I've gotta spend time with her." This does not take a lot of brainpower to figure out. Plus, any reasonably attractive woman that has been/is being hit on a lot knows how to make excuses like this. Moreover, not only did she go to the coach's room, but also she told her mom that she was leaving for the night? So, she clearly went to his room planning on spending the night in the coach's room.

Then, when she got to his room, she was "scared", so she "laid on the bed and tried to make small talk"? The last thing a woman (that has no intention of hooking up) is going to do after entering a man's hotel room alone is lay down on the bed. ESPECIALLY if she's "scared". And, this was a coach that had made her so uncomfortable all along by stalking her on insta and hitting on her aggressively? No. You only LAY DOWN on the bed if you are planning on hooking up. Lying on the bed is extremely "familiar behavior" behavior of someone that is quite comfortable with the situation.

There are numerous other examples such as this in her statement. Let me be clear, I'm not saying that she wasn't harassed at some point, by someone. What I do believe, however, is that she was, at some point, engaging in behavior indicative of a consensual, mutual "flirtatiousness", and hook ups. And, I think that's an important part of the entire situation.

SoCalie said:

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Let me preface this by saying that, obviously, I was not there and don't know what happened.

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Whenever someone in a situation like this starts their post with this, you know what is coming after that and the above post was no exception.

Tough situation - Regardless of any issues she may be dealing with, I hope the University investigates thoroughly all of the accusations.

Her recent Instagram post on her mental illness challenges


232 likes

• paigecornelius
  Leaving berk for the rest of the semester to take some time to focus on healing my mental illnesses. Not sure why there's such a stigma around mental health because the things I deal with on a daily basis (crippling anxiety, OCD, and bipolar depression) are things I inherited through my genetics, just like any other disease that runs in a family. Invisible illnesses are the absolute worst because I can look totally fine on the outside but be really not okay on the inside, which is hard for friends, family, and even doctors to understand. However I wouldn't be making any progress without my absolute best friends who are my true family, the amazing psychiatrists and doctors at the Tang center, DSP, and the many people who have been there for me no matter what I'm feeling in the moment. Being depressed, anxious, and moody to the point where I can't go to class or even function as a normal human being are just symptoms of my disease, and not who I am, and hopefully me sharing my story will inspire someone else to take action on their own mental health. I'll miss u piedmont avenue XD XD roll tide see u in the fall kween
  
  PS. Special shout to @sdowd for forcing me to get help last spring when I was at my worst, you helped me change my life, and I can never repay you for that @brookehafif @lillywedbush @marshalotosh@kori.stetter @jacquelinetooley@amalyapenso @hannahhcrane @ashsalkthanks for being my family

You know they are frivolous, or at the least very poor cases, when they settle for cost of defense settlements. If they had a real case they would proceed with the lawsuit and make many times more money for the attorney as well as the plaintiff.

sycasey said:

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ThesePretzels said:

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C.) When her Mom came to visit, she and the Mom stayed at the Claremont. (unless I misread and Cal football was paying for her to stay at the Claremont too)

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I'm pretty sure she said she was staying at the Claremont with the rest of the team, as they always do on game nights.

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If correct, it's weird that that level of staffer (hydtrotech, which is sub-intern level) is housed at the Claremont too. Is it really necessary? And if you're staying at the hotel for work purposes, is it really appropriate to invite your Mom to stay in the room too?

None of that really matters. Just kind of a weird detour in a story that has a lot of interesting asides (ie therapists cost $600/hour in LA???)

Just giving my opinion, Yogi

Unit2Sucks said:

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There are plenty of people who think most of the Kavanaugh accusers were telling the truth. I will grant you that one seemed incredibly sketchy and that it tainted the process but I think your takeaway message is less than universally agreed upon. I think the reminder from Kavanaugh is that an absence of incontrovertible physical evidence makes it easier for those in power to retain their power.

evanstobrown said:

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Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

---

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How about the absence of any evidence much less incontrovertible. It was an insidious attempt to destroy somebody for political gain. Don't be intellectually dishonest on this.

freshfunk said:

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4. In my opinion, there's a solid power dynamic between a football coach and hydro tech. Advances are an abuse of power. With that said, someone mentioned "rape" which is overboard. Based on the reading, it's more of a claim of sexual harassment. Let's not throw around trigger words just to rile people up.

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I would classify telling a subordinate to have sex with someone or else they get fired as rape. Yes, its not holding someone down or taking advantage of someone that is passed out, but it is forcing them to do something against their will.

nwbear84 said:

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You know they are frivolous, or at the least very poor cases, when they settle for cost of defense settlements. If they had a real case they would proceed with the lawsuit and make many times more money for the attorney as well as the plaintiff.

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There is a big difference between "frivolous" and "poor case." One tells me that someone was lying and the other tells me that there just wasn't enough evidence.

ThesePretzels said:

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sycasey said:

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ThesePretzels said:

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C.) When her Mom came to visit, she and the Mom stayed at the Claremont. (unless I misread and Cal football was paying for her to stay at the Claremont too)

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I'm pretty sure she said she was staying at the Claremont with the rest of the team, as they always do on game nights.

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If correct, it's weird that that level of staffer (hydtrotech, which is sub-intern level) is housed at the Claremont too. Is it really necessary? And if you're staying at the hotel for work purposes, is it really appropriate to invite your Mom to stay in the room too?

None of that really matters. Just kind of a weird detour in a story that has a lot of interesting asides (ie therapists cost $600/hour in LA???)

---

Yeah, not being part of the regular workings of Cal Football and who they house on game nights, I can't really say. If it's true that "hydrotechs" are usually not housed at the team hotel, then that should be revealed in an investigation, in short order.

sycasey said:

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nwbear84 said:

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You know they are frivolous, or at the least very poor cases, when they settle for cost of defense settlements. If they had a real case they would proceed with the lawsuit and make many times more money for the attorney as well as the plaintiff.

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There is a big difference between "frivolous" and "poor case." One tells me that someone was lying and the other tells me that there just wasn't enough evidence.

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I'll bet that it's a lot easier to make cases in the mobile phone era. People are not careful.

'The EEOC identifies two types of harassment, Rhode said: "Quid pro quo harassment, which is requests for sexual favors, or hostile environment harassment, which is creating a hostile workplace that interferes with performance."'

True, but bringing a case that you know you don't have enough evidence to win with is somewhat of a frivolous act. I was being generous. I believe the original poster's point was that a less than ethical plaintiff's attorney's will bring a case knowing it has no merit against a deep pocket company because they will get them for the cost of defense. Bringing a case that at least has some merit, but has no chance of winning in court due to a lack of evidence is at least ethical.

bearister said:

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upsetof86 said:

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swan said:

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Paige Elizabeth Cornelius is not currently listed as a UC student. Has anybody confirmed she is or was an actual student?

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Or alive? there's a Paige Elizabeth Cornelius obituary of a 26 year old in Kansas. Smh. Quite a name to use, quite a name lol.

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You young guys are not too swift on the Internet. This literally took 5 seconds to find:

https://harri.com/Paige-Cornelius-1

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Lol. Sure. Feels like several clues to indicate an elaborate social experiment re sexual harassment. Seems quite appropriate in today's climate, Berkeley, and football. I feel all our comments and resctions will be footnotes in a paper.

Usual respectful disclaimers--if true very shocking and sad.

Great, ESPN just released...

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/26318717/woman-accuses-cal-players-staff-harassment

Another Bear said:

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Agree, too early to judge or even analyze. I will say three things however:

a) False reporting is rare vs. real reports, like single digit % but when it happens it gets BIG press.
b) Most people never report this stuff, something like 80% never say anything.
c) Very little to gain by reporting, much to lose...which relates to b. Seems almost a no-win situation.

At this point, I'm going to give the intern the benefit of the doubt because she stands to gain nothing, could even hijjack her career, life. Let the investigation happen. I see no gain here except to help stop it. As for "it doesn't sound right"...toss that out the window.

Do you guys remember the 3-5 Cal students who sued UC because of the response/cover up to sexual harassment and rape? They did that after reporting...and they had to sue? None of this bodes well.

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I completely disagree. In this current environment of "always believe the women" we are invited to check our brain at the door and not use common sense or critical thinking.

It is perfectly reasonable to question things like her going to the office inside the stadium at midnight while drunk, leaving her mother behind to meet a coach in his hotel room at night and being upset that a person likes your social media posts of yourself in a bikini. (Those invitations, if they happened, were horribly wrong. But the flip side has to be acknowledged too - what the hell is the women thinking going to meet them at those hours and locations? Under what circumstance does a hydration expert - water person - ever need to meet a coach in a hotel room? Is it even remotely believable that a student would seek help with an economics class from a football coach at midnight? Come on, there's some big self serving BS with her story).

My gut tells me there may have been sexual acts which the men believed to be consensual. On the whole I don't think most men say things like "I'm going to treat you like the hoe you are" just completely out of the blue. I won't be surprised if there are very different elements to this story from others.

what are you doing jordan duncan. geez you should be kicked off the team and out of school. the other coaches should be accountable. Cal does not need this kind of crap from coaches esp. wilcox if true.

tequila4kapp said:

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My gut tells me there may have been sexual acts which the men believed to be consensual. On the whole I don't think most men say things like "I'm going to treat you like the hoe you are" just completely out of the blue. I won't be surprised if there are very different elements to this story from others.

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I'd also say that if those acts happened between one of the coaches and a student working for the team, then it's definitely an inappropriate relationship and could well qualify as sexual harassment, regardless of whatever other questionable decisions this girl might have made.

sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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My gut tells me there may have been sexual acts which the men believed to be consensual. On the whole I don't think most men say things like "I'm going to treat you like the hoe you are" just completely out of the blue. I won't be surprised if there are very different elements to this story from others.

---

I'd also say that if those acts happened between one of the coaches and a student working for the team, then it's definitely an inappropriate relationship and could well qualify as sexual harassment, regardless of whatever other questionable decisions this girl might have made.

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In corporate America it would qualify as sexual coercion due to the power dynamics involved.

bearister said:

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evanstobrown said:

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Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

---

After what is going in our country, especially the last few days, I am not letting any cheap shots pass by me. As a trial lawyer I evaluated the credibility of witnesses as part of my job for 36 years. My son does so as a prosecutor. My son and I, as well as all of my friends that are or were trial attorneys are of the opinion that Kavanaugh conducted himself as someone that is guilty as f@ck with regard to the charges made....so PLEASE, spare me that throwaway line in your post.

---

Please. I can give you at least as many trial lawyers with even more experience who assess the witnesses as being completely full of ***** We assess credibility through a lease that's built on our world views, values and life experiences. Respectfully, your status as a trial attorney is not dispositive of the credibility issue any more than it is for the ones I could gather in 5 minutes.

tequila4kapp said:

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bearister said:

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evanstobrown said:

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Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

---

After what is going in our country, especially the last few days, I am not letting any cheap shots pass by me. As a trial lawyer I evaluated the credibility of witnesses as part of my job for 36 years. My son does so as a prosecutor. My son and I, as well as all of my friends that are or were trial attorneys are of the opinion that Kavanaugh conducted himself as someone that is guilty as f@ck with regard to the charges made....so PLEASE, spare me that throwaway line in your post.

---

Please. I can give you at least as many trial lawyers with even more experience who assess the witnesses as being completely full of ****. We assess credibility through a lease that's built on our world views, values and life experiences. Respectfully, your status as a trial attorney is not dispositive of the credibility issue any more than it is for the ones I could gather in 5 minutes.

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Give them, then. You have five minutes.

Yogi Bear said:

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SoCalie said:

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Let me preface this by saying that, obviously, I was not there and don't know what happened.

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Whenever someone in a situation like this starts their post with this, you know what is coming after that and the above post was no exception.

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But is any part of what he says in the rest of the post wrong or unreasonable? Of course not. He's exactly right. Those elements of her story do not make sense. At all.

bearister said:

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upsetof86 said:

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swan said:

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Paige Elizabeth Cornelius is not currently listed as a UC student. Has anybody confirmed she is or was an actual student?

---

Or alive? there's a Paige Elizabeth Cornelius obituary of a 26 year old in Kansas. Smh. Quite a name to use, quite a name lol.

---

You young guys are not too swift on the Internet. This literally took 5 seconds to find:

https://harri.com/Paige-Cornelius-1

---

A "Cal student" who has multiple mistakes in a simple resume.

GMP said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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bearister said:

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evanstobrown said:

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Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

---

After what is going in our country, especially the last few days, I am not letting any cheap shots pass by me. As a trial lawyer I evaluated the credibility of witnesses as part of my job for 36 years. My son does so as a prosecutor. My son and I, as well as all of my friends that are or were trial attorneys are of the opinion that Kavanaugh conducted himself as someone that is guilty as f@ck with regard to the charges made....so PLEASE, spare me that throwaway line in your post.

---

Please. I can give you at least as many trial lawyers with even more experience who assess the witnesses as being completely full of ****. We assess credibility through a lease that's built on our world views, values and life experiences. Respectfully, your status as a trial attorney is not dispositive of the credibility issue any more than it is for the ones I could gather in 5 minutes.

---

Give them, then. You have five minutes.

---

I am not going to post people's full names. Initials: PS, FM, TB, JK, JW,

It was a divisive issue. Are you really shocked that 50% of people saw it the other way? It's silly to claim some sort of authoritative position on the issue of credibility / truthfulness of the witnesses.

sycasey said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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My gut tells me there may have been sexual acts which the men believed to be consensual. On the whole I don't think most men say things like "I'm going to treat you like the hoe you are" just completely out of the blue. I won't be surprised if there are very different elements to this story from others.

---

I'd also say that if those acts happened between one of the coaches and a student working for the team, then it's definitely an inappropriate relationship and could well qualify as sexual harassment, regardless of whatever other questionable decisions this girl might have made.

---

I 100% agree.

tequila4kapp said:

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GMP said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

bearister said:

---

evanstobrown said:

---

Thanks Michael.
Critically evaluating her words leaves one with questions and doubts. The Cavanaugh accusers should be a reminder that motivations sometimes lead to malicious misinformation and accusations.
Beware the vindictive who feel cheated.

---

After what is going in our country, especially the last few days, I am not letting any cheap shots pass by me. As a trial lawyer I evaluated the credibility of witnesses as part of my job for 36 years. My son does so as a prosecutor. My son and I, as well as all of my friends that are or were trial attorneys are of the opinion that Kavanaugh conducted himself as someone that is guilty as f@ck with regard to the charges made....so PLEASE, spare me that throwaway line in your post.

---

Please. I can give you at least as many trial lawyers with even more experience who assess the witnesses as being completely full of ****. We assess credibility through a lease that's built on our world views, values and life experiences. Respectfully, your status as a trial attorney is not dispositive of the credibility issue any more than it is for the ones I could gather in 5 minutes.

---

Give them, then. You have five minutes.

---

I am not going to post people's full names. Initials: PS, FM, TB, JK, JW,

It was a divisive issue. Are you really shocked that 50% of people saw it the other way? It's silly to claim some sort of authoritative position on the issue of credibility / truthfulness of the witnesses.

---

(Apologies to everyone else for following this tangent)

Of course I didn't expect you to name names, I was just pointing out the hollowness of your claims.

To your substantive point, though: I didn't hear one person say she they didn't believe Blasey Ford. Even the ones who believed Kavanaugh was innocent believed that Blasey Ford was not lying and/or trying to score a political win, but that she earnestly believed something happened to her and it was him. I'm not shocked that many people saw that different ways, and I think either belief is reasonable.

But I can't believe any experienced trial lawyer thinks Kavanaugh was telling the truth about all the ancillary issues that I believe he perjured himself on - stuff like "Renate Alumni"..."ralph club"... (I forget the rest now). Those were such obvious and stupid lies. How about say, "I was 17 and I said some really dumb things, and that's not me now, 30 years later. But saying rude and hurtful things as a teenager doesn't mean I tried to rape someone, and doesn't affect my qualifications as a judge now." But lying under oath and not having the guts to own up to past mistakes certainly does affect his qualifications as judge now.

Men, (and, so far, it seems to be only men commenting, thus far) this is bad. Really, really bad. It's going to take a while for any investigation.

In the meantime, there's a huge cloud over our program, coaches and players. Jordan Duncan is toast. My bet is that the coach's name comes out soon. Now, my mind wanders back to any abrupt, surprise coaching departures.

In fact, there are two sentences that stand out as identification clues. First, "These harassments continued into the summer, when a new coach arrived." We haven't had that many new coaches arrive.

Second, "I want to talk about the coaches. Highly paid, famous, revered when their team wins a national championship." How many national championship coaches are on staff? That is a finite, discrete number.

I feel for this young woman. If any of these accusations is true, it is devastating. Especially if these guys put their hands on her. That's either battery or assault, close your poison.

True or not, her suffering is about to be exponentially magnified. So is the scrutiny on Cal football. There is no winning, here; only pain.

But is any part of what she says in the rest of the post wrong or unreasonable? Of course not. She's exactly right.

Ummmmm...

Woman here...

SoCalie said:

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Ummmmm...

Woman here...

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Welcome sister! We desperately need some not-male perspectives in here.

The truth will set us free. The board needs to stop speculating. Saying things like the head coach should go if true...well what if it is the opposite? Wait for the truth then there can be conversation....good or bad...

Thank you, F4C!! Much appreciated!

socaltownie said:

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25To20 said:

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GMP said:

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Sure, but as I understand it, it's Wilcox's job to go up the chain of command on something like this. She says she also emailed Knowlton. She also does not say when she emailed them. If Wilcox sent the complaint up the chain, he shouldn't be fired.

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I am a manager, and if anyone in my company comes to me with a sexual harassment complaint, I will refer the complainer to the appropriate authority, and I will follow up with the appropriate authority to ensure the matter has been reported to them, and is being handled. To save my own butt, I will document all those conversations in email.

Also, note that the appropriate authority may not be up the chain of command, though it does not hurt to make one's boss aware of the situation. Especially in an organization the size of Cal, there is almost certainly an office that is charged with handling cases of alleged sexual harassment that is independent of the Athletics department.

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+1. This is standard stuff. It is covered in nearly every SH training course I have ever had to....which I BELIEVE is MANDATORY for higher education institutions receiving federal aid. You can actually usually always get the right answer on the quizes by answering "RUn, do not walk but run, to HR".

and again, #protip - do not ever ask a women to "cover up". SMH.

---

I don't agree with that last statement. One of the most diffcult conversations I had to have was regarding the clothing that one female engineer wore to work in a open cubicle environment. It was an awkward but necessary discussion. It was a professional work environment and we needed people to dress professionally, not like it was a nightclub.

Now it was back in 2005 and HR was involved, but I wonder if the response would have been different in 2019. I hope not. Also, others female engineers were not allowed to wear similar clothing, so she wasn't singled out.

If she does have a legal team that's soliciting for corroborating witnesses, chances are they're going to find something and this is going to be drawn out. I think the university is going to have to, at minimum, suspend folks for the time being pending a full investigation.