I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

75bear said:

---

I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

Schools should be open. Before the stay at home order in late November, they could have been as far as the state was concerned. It is a matter of the school districts working with the local health departments. There are a couple of school districts that have working really hard trying to open up and have plans in place with the health boards to do so. The rest are looking at them saying "Why are you making me look bad, bro?" Yes, they should be open, but it requires a lot of additional work to do it. Work most don't want to do. Let's be honest. If they can push you off until summer they can hope everyone gets vaccinated and it is business as usual in the fall

There are some fabulous teachers and great schools in Oakland. You should know by now the school district is a disaster.

Thankfully my youngest is in High School and can deal with remote learning. Elementary school would be terrible.

Orange County public schools are open. The education board voted to reopen back in July 2020. Why the lack of outrage in other CA cities?

I have kids in school, am a recently retired teacher and my wife teaches in OUSD. I totally agree that opening schools is a top priority.

I'm guessing the East Bay county schools open up pretty soon; I would guess March. Maybe the youngest grades earlier than that. It would've been pretty hard to open up late last fall, the way the virus trends were going, but it would've been nice to get in some school in Sept-Oct.. From what I know about school politics, all the districts in a county would probably like to do this in lockstep.

SF has been the worst. Last March, their teachers didn't have any sort of remote learning plan for over four weeks (or more?). They have been the major foot-draggers on reopening (not sure to what extent it's the teachers). Meanwhile, SF has less COVID than just about any other populated area. They're working on renaming those schools though! Imagine having schools named after tyrants like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln...

Big C said:

---

I have kids in school, am a recently retired teacher and my wife teaches in OUSD. I totally agree that opening schools is a top priority.

I'm guessing the East Bay county schools open up pretty soon; I would guess March. Maybe the youngest grades earlier than that. It would've been pretty hard to open up late last fall, the way the virus trends were going, but it would've been nice to get in some school in Sept-Oct.. From what I know about school politics, all the districts in a county would probably like to do this in lockstep.

SF has been the worst. Last March, their teachers didn't have any sort of remote learning plan for over four weeks (or more?). They have been the major foot-draggers on reopening (not sure to what extent it's the teachers). Meanwhile, SF has less COVID than just about any other populated area. They're working on renaming those schools though! Imagine having schools named after tyrants like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln...

---

Yea, when I heard about the school renaming going through, I was completely flabbergasted. I kept thinking the adults would step into the room and restore logic. I'm liberal, but renaming schools named after washington, Lincoln, john Muir and the lot is just incredibly idiotic and indefensible.

Every human being is flawed and no one is perfect, whatever the school names become, those people will be flawed and have done bad things in their past. I'm 100% sure of that, because they are humans, and all humans have bad **** in their past.

I'm starting a petition for a renaming to Bobby Sands High School.

golden sloth said:

---

Yea, when I heard about the school renaming going through, I was completely flabbergasted. I kept thinking the adults would step into the room and restore logic. I'm liberal, but renaming schools named after washington, Lincoln, john Muir and the lot is just incredibly idiotic and indefensible.

Every human being is flawed and no one is perfect, whatever the school names become, those people will be flawed and have done bad things in their past. I'm 100% sure of that, because they are humans, and all humans have bad **** in their past.

---

I am on the same page. I do have a question though. Is it possible that a large part of this is simply removing names from the schools? When I think about the schools in my district, I think only three of thirty are named after people and none of them were politicians. I would have to see SF's list to see how many "Names" survived. I am not sure I oppose schools avoiding the use of historic figures as names.

golden sloth said:

---

Big C said:

---

I have kids in school, am a recently retired teacher and my wife teaches in OUSD. I totally agree that opening schools is a top priority.

I'm guessing the East Bay county schools open up pretty soon; I would guess March. Maybe the youngest grades earlier than that. It would've been pretty hard to open up late last fall, the way the virus trends were going, but it would've been nice to get in some school in Sept-Oct.. From what I know about school politics, all the districts in a county would probably like to do this in lockstep.

SF has been the worst. Last March, their teachers didn't have any sort of remote learning plan for over four weeks (or more?). They have been the major foot-draggers on reopening (not sure to what extent it's the teachers). Meanwhile, SF has less COVID than just about any other populated area. They're working on renaming those schools though! Imagine having schools named after tyrants like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln...

---

Yea, when I heard about the school renaming going through, I was completely flabbergasted. I kept thinking the adults would step into the room and restore logic. I'm liberal, but renaming schools named after washington, Lincoln, john Muir and the lot is just incredibly idiotic and indefensible.

Every human being is flawed and no one is perfect, whatever the school names become, those people will be flawed and have done bad things in their past. I'm 100% sure of that, because they are humans, and all humans have bad **** in their past.

---

I think they should just name all the schools after serial killers because there is nothing worse that can come out. Lowell of course gets the primo "Zodiac High School" monicker.

Quote:

---

Go!Bears said:

I am on the same page. I do have a question though. Is it possible that a large part of this is simply removing names from the schools? When I think about the schools in my district, I think only three of thirty are named after people and none of them were politicians. I would have to see SF's list to see how many "Names" survived. I am not sure I oppose schools avoiding the use of historic figures as names.

---

It's in Oakland and it's a private school, so not quite the same category, but I'll bet Holy Names survives.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand: This is the time to quickly get ready for a reopening, as the virus is receding. They might open with reduced capacity (for social distancing) initially. Kids would go either for a half day or on alternate days. That makes it tough on scheduling and child care, but is more prudent to start out. And half is MUCH better than nothing!

" the virus is receding.."

Well, the Classic Coke version, anyway.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Big C - I hope your optimism comes to pass, but unfortunately my cynicism dominates my feelings.

Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

I have a 5-year-old who was supposed to start Kindergarten this year. He's also a special-needs kid on the autism spectrum. So far the district's plans have been a bit haphazard. They started with online learning which lasts for about 90 minutes per day in the morning (8:30 to 10 AM). Our autistic 5-year-old definitely was not going to sit still for that whole time, especially since we also have a 1-year-old destructive toddler who demands attention as well. Since he's special needs, they did also start sending a Behavioral Therapy specialist to work with him three times a week. When she's around we all have to wear masks, but she does help keep him on task.

Then they started up "pod" learning where he could physically go to school a few times a week in a small group in the afternoon (this supplements the morning online class). They also offered transportation to and from this pod, though it was pretty hard to arrange and my wife wound up having to drive him there the first week. Then a few days ago we hear from the teacher there that they are ending the pod after this week. No other communication about this from the district, nor any estimate for when in-person learning could resume. It's frustrating. Why does this have to stop now when the state just lifted stay-at-home orders? No explanation.

Why aren't people more outraged? I suspect it's because people are just in survival mode with their kids at home all the time and trying to get their own work done. Not enough energy to be outraged.

I'm not sure what's happening in other districts, but in San Francisco it does seem like the teachers' union is being unreasonable. They're asking for safety measures the CDC doesn't even recommend.

And then of course there's the silliness of the school board prioritizing school renaming.

75bear said:

---

Thanks to everyone who responded. Big C - I hope your optimism comes to pass, but unfortunately my cynicism dominates my feelings.

---

Only one section of our economy seems to have adopted a new philosophy of increased clean air circulation, the airline industry, although indian casinos in San Diego have done well in many cases.
When New York schools reopened they had undergone HVAC improvements. Haven't heard of any CA school districts considering that option.

There seems to be one constant; the more exposure, the greater the risk, with an airborne disease. A bar with air turnover of once an hour has to be a ten times greater risk than a bar with air turnover every six minutes, even more is the air is sterilized while circulated. In a bar or restaurant an air return register above every booth and table would be a better alternative than poorly enforced social distancing. It would take money but these indoor meeting areas can become much safer just by better indoor air quality.

So can schools, except CAL school, have been overcrowded for years, forty students in a space for 24. CAL residents don't want to fund construction for improvements. Social distancing alone would mean that some schools would need to be running 3 or 4 shifts a day, and increasing the number of teachers dramatically, if they only had the money. It's pretty easy to see why schools opted for remote learning, it's the cheapest alternative.

Now we are seeing new Covid variants, more contagious, more severe, more vaccine resistant. The Hail Mary of waiting for a vaccine will not be enough. BTW when did the definition of a vaccine change? When I was vaccinated for smallpox and polio, it was to prevent becoming infected. The Covid 19 vaccines are much different, you can still become infected and you can still spread the disease, but your symptoms won't be as severe. Everybody can still get sick just not as bad, unless it's a new variant resistant to the vaccine. That's hardly reassuring by itself.

Time to bite the bullet and improve indoor air quality throughout the economy, schools included.

By the way, anybody following the latest guidance? wear a face shield and a 3ply mask; better than double masking. Biden has been President barely a week and the Fed guidance went from no mask to everyone wear a mask to wear double masks because of the new Covid strains to wear a face shield and a N95 or 3 play mask.
In nine days, either the pandemic is exploding or the Government is no longer withholding Covid truth from the population. Then again, "Maybe we can't handle the truth."

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

PS: I forget where it came up - maybe my own original thinking - but in some ways this could be GREAT for kids.

There is much said about how spoiled the younger generations are, including my own, raised in the 70's and 80's. No real problems to deal with, we expect too much and are lazy, they've said. The younger generations are even worse, they say!

Well, this generation of kids might just grow up having their expectations of everything be slightly different. They might be aware that it can all be taken away in an instant. They might look back in adulthood knowing, "well, we got through that hardship, so we can get thru this one, too!"

People grow through struggling times such as these. And if history tells us anything, it's that there will be more hard times.

Develop some awareness and resiliency. Just keep swimming, just keep swimming.

golden sloth said:

---

I'm liberal, but renaming schools named after washington, Lincoln, john Muir and the lot is just incredibly idiotic and indefensible.

---

What's the reason for taking away John Muir school name???

75bear said:

---

I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

I am 100% with you. I have 3 kids of college age and although they have lost out on a true college life for the past year, I can't imagine what it would be like with elementary school kids at home. Those kids need to be amongst their peers and in a classroom. What I would like to know is, who is taking care of these kids if their parents go to work? Do we now have 8 year old latch key kids?

Yes, of course there's a lack of outrage, but I'll take it one step further--there's even a lack of interest. How many comments were posted after yours before the discussion segued into the school renaming crap? What does that tell you? Even our kids getting shortchanged fails to get the attention of Californians--even educated Californians. Shame on us.

I am fortunate to be in OC where common sense hasn't been eradicated completely. Our kids can go to school if they wish, or learn remotely if they wish. Imagine that? Free choice made by parents on behalf of their kids. But we do have areas of this state where the prospect of people making their own choices just doesn't fly. They want to force your hand and show you who's boss, consequences be damned. They can't cry SCIENCE! in our faces anymore. It seems there are too many people benefitting from the system as it now stands. Where's the incentive?

But I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. For the first time since the pandemic began, NBC News is now regularly bringing up the school situation and even saying that the teachers union has a hand in it. This is a complete departure from their reporting for the past year. The reasons why are the subject of another thread, but at least the issue has been brought to the fore. Additionally, NBC is talking about the effects on school kids, highlighting the many suicides of school-aged kids in the Las Vegas area. And of course the Chicago teachers' refusal to go back to work is a major story. Just a couple of days ago, a father losing it at a school board meeting in Virginia went viral. I see these exposures as a very important first step and I do think--and hope--that attitudes will change and the necessary pressure--and that's what it will take--will result in kids getting back to the classroom.

In the mean time I wish you good luck.

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

This exactly. Also there are other countries and places where they've managed to keep schools open. There's no evidence that elementary schools are major spreaders. Seems like younger kids are fairly well inoculated from getting sick or being transmitters. I'm sure there are exceptions, but we're talking about the larger group here.

I'm fine to suffer through some hardship if it's justified, but it seems increasingly clear that elementary school closures are not really justified. High schools and colleges are another matter.

Anarchistbear said:

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Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

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bearister said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

---

---

Chris Rock? The Rock? Rock Hudson? Who is this school named after? Jelly Roll?...oh forget it.

bearister said:

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

---

---

That's the solution - name schools after the area stars. Sly Stone, Carlos Santana, Carol Doda, Mitchell Bothers,Owsley Stanley, Dead, Ferlinghetti, etc

Anarchistbear said:

---

bearister said:

---

Anarchistbear said:

---

Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

---

---

That's the solution - name schools after the area stars. Sly Stone, Carlos Santana, Carol Doda, Mitchell Bothers,Owsley Stanley, Dead, Ferlinghetti, etc

---

I'm sure none of these people ever did anything problematic.

Sounds like a California thing. Here in New Jersey schools have been mostly open since the fall. Studies show kids are minimal transmitters.

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

concordtom said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

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Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

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Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

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Because every scientist who has repeatedly said Trump is an idiot says open the schools. The main guy on MSNBC that they talk to for all things COVID laid it out when NYC closed their schools again and said it was a mistake, that the data didn't support it and that he had been for closing the schools originally and changed his mind because the data was so clear.

I'm sorry but we have to make decisions based on science, not politics. Otherwise we are just the shut it down side and not the follow the science side.

concordtom said:

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OaktownBear said:

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concordtom said:

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75bear said:

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Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

---

Further, there are lots of studies and when you look at things from a macro perspective it isn't hard to know if schools are causing a lot of spread. There would be clusters. There would be increases when schools open. There would be higher rates where they are open. We don't need to see virus going from body to body to figure out how it is spreading. There have literally been studies all over the world all saying the same thing.

You can't look at a scientist and agree with him when he is against Trump and then think he is spreading misinformation when he is not for certain measures.

concordtom said:

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OaktownBear said:

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concordtom said:

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75bear said:

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Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

---

Maybe we should ask the scientists. They say elementary schools should be open.

75bear said:

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I recognize many posters on this site are well past the age of having kids in school (although maybe your grandkids are!).

For those who haven't followed, we've passed the 300 day mark of no in-person school for any public school student in Oakland, Berkeley, San Francisco and many other CA districts. As the parent of 2 elementary school children, I can't stress the frustration I feel at the lack of outrage about this.

It's been proven at other large public school districts around the country that reopenings can be done safely, and that kids are not a huge transmission risk for Covid. Dr. Fauci says we should reopen schools, the CDC says we should reopen schools, and all the science and studies have shown it can be successfully done. Locally, almost every private and parochial school is open. Yet it's only the CA public schools with the most disadvantaged youth that remain closed. How is this ok to anyone??

The local school districts have looked to the state for guidelines, yet Gavin Newsom and the state have punted all responsibility back to the local school districts. So we're at an impasse, with no solution in sight.

I've lived through 4 years of Trump culminating in the Capitol riot and still felt like we as a country will survive. But it's this current school issue that has finally made me lose all faith in humanity.

This isn't a red issue or a blue issue. Everyone agrees education is unbelievably important. So why are we not educating our kids?

Teachers and students who want to stay home can do distance learning, and teachers and students who want in-person learning can go to school. Problem solved - everyone is happy. Why can't we do this?

Instead we have the most at-risk CA kids not learning at home and dealing with mental health issues from the isolation.

Where is the CA outrage?? We've become the laughingstock of the nation. I always laughed when everyone called us CA snowflakes, but I now can't think of a more appropriate term.

SF just announced that middle school and high school kids won't be returning to the classroom this school year. I'm beginning to believe we won't even have kids in school in Fall '21. This is so outrageous.

I've written so many letters that I'm sure have gone unread. What else can I do? I don't think it's simply a Teachers Union issue - the CA state govt and local school administration (as well as many parents!) don't seem to have the will to make a change.

I'm open to all ideas - I'm someone who doesn't like to just complain without offering to help solve the problem. But I am at my wits end on how to get our CA kids educated like all other states are doing (successfully).

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

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I dunno. Why are you not educating your kids?

Anarchistbear said:

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bearister said:

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Anarchistbear said:

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Thomas Jefferson High - Junipero Serra High- Franklin Roosevelt High- Bobby Seals High- Oppressed Indigeneous People's High- High School To be Named Later-

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That's the solution - name schools after the area stars. Sly Stone, Carlos Santana, Carol Doda, Mitchell Bothers,Owsley Stanley, Dead, Ferlinghetti, etc

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When I was 14, going to Dead Jr High would have been really cool.

OaktownBear said:

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golden sloth said:

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Big C said:

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I have kids in school, am a recently retired teacher and my wife teaches in OUSD. I totally agree that opening schools is a top priority.

I'm guessing the East Bay county schools open up pretty soon; I would guess March. Maybe the youngest grades earlier than that. It would've been pretty hard to open up late last fall, the way the virus trends were going, but it would've been nice to get in some school in Sept-Oct.. From what I know about school politics, all the districts in a county would probably like to do this in lockstep.

SF has been the worst. Last March, their teachers didn't have any sort of remote learning plan for over four weeks (or more?). They have been the major foot-draggers on reopening (not sure to what extent it's the teachers). Meanwhile, SF has less COVID than just about any other populated area. They're working on renaming those schools though! Imagine having schools named after tyrants like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln...

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Yea, when I heard about the school renaming going through, I was completely flabbergasted. I kept thinking the adults would step into the room and restore logic. I'm liberal, but renaming schools named after washington, Lincoln, john Muir and the lot is just incredibly idiotic and indefensible.

Every human being is flawed and no one is perfect, whatever the school names become, those people will be flawed and have done bad things in their past. I'm 100% sure of that, because they are humans, and all humans have bad **** in their past.

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I think they should just name all the schools after serial killers because there is nothing worse that can come out. Lowell of course gets the primo "Zodiac High School" monicker.

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Re-try. Previous Statement deleted by 'system'
I am a Lowell Grad (also a Cal Grad). The Lowell name had little to do with the History of the City, and it wasn't the original name.
However the serial killer Herb Mullin was in the same scout troop and attended the same church. He lived a couple of blocks from Lowell and the church was on the other side of Lowell.
Who knows where the Zodiac lived and breathed, Herb Mullin is the Lowell local serial killer.

sycasey said:

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concordtom said:

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OaktownBear said:

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concordtom said:

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75bear said:

---

Am I illogical? 1.5 years of no school for 5 and 6 year olds is a crime.

What do others think?

---

450,000 dead is a crime.
Lost wages is a crime.
Trillions in national debt (to keep the economy afloat) is a crime.

Pick your poison - that's what this is all about.

As for me, my kids are 12-20 and we have a very big house in the county. I like it better, and some of them do, too. Yes, we are tired of being hunkered down, but in this past month the deaths have struck 2 people we know. If my dad gets it, he would be a very likely candidate to die - compromised immune system due to prior accident and recovery.

My brother has diabetes and I was diagnosed with CAD a few years ago, though we both feel fine. But those are "comorbidities".

You are pissed because your little kids are stuck at home, and I agree - THAT SUCKS. But other generations have had to go through other hard times. Consider London in WW2. Fathers went off to war. Kids moved out of the city. Nightly raids, bombs destroying so much.

Come on, now! You can get through this. Don't be a pansy. You've got it sooo much better.

Unless you just want your cake and eat it, too. But then, that'll cost another million lives, maybe even someone beloved to you.

---

Tom, Having it better than Londoners in the Blitz is not the standard.

I absolutely agree that Covid is something we can get through and frankly there has been some weak sauce complaining. However, on this one I have to sympathize with OP. Scientists have said for months that the science does not support keeping schools closed. And they started from the position that we should close schools because schools were a major transmission vector during the Spanish Flu. But they clearly are not for Covid.

I think our school districts assumed in June that either Covid would be done by fall and they'd open under normal conditions or that Covid would be back and they wouldn't and then sat on their asses. They had since March to understand the issue and develop contingency plan to open safely if possible in a pandemic.

This doesn't really impact me. My kids are older and doing fine. I've been very supportive of measures to prevent transmission. Closing schools, especially elementary schools is not scientifically justified.

---

Unfortunately, Trump's campaign of misinformation is widespread, because I don't know how I can believe that kids are not spreaders. Maybe kids are blind spreaders. Maybe the pass to grandparents, or teachers. How would we know?

---

Maybe we should ask the scientists. They say elementary schools should be open.

---

And you think that is enough? The scientists said we didn't need masks because it wouldn't help and COVID-19 was not an airborne spread contagion but that we should wipe down our groceries. Then they said you only need cloth masks. Then they said wear mask all the time unless you can be six feet apart. Then they said wear mask indoors even if you are six feet apart because the virus stays airborne and travels. Then they said wear double mask. Until the family is vaccinated and there is herd immunity, I am not sending my kids into a crowded indoor space. It wasn't that long ago when CNN and MSNBC were mocking red states for opening up schools and how that was causing death for elders in the family and for teachers. Now it's OK even though we have a more contagious strain? If there is one thing that has been clear, the scientist are learning more everyday and getting things wrong everyday as well. I don't blame them but I am not blindly following the latest guess and putting my family at risk.