oski003 said:

---

We can debate whether or not the FDA should approve Ivermectin However, as it stands, the use of Ivermectin as an attempt to protect against or treat covid 19 is not helping anyone. People are stupid and will take more than a reasonable amount because there isn't reasonable directions on what a reasonable amount is to prevent or cure covid 19. Also, people are taking it thinking it will cure them when the disease has progressed whereas someone needs to head to urgent care or the ER. People are doing this because the internet or their friends are exaggerating Ivermectin's curative effects. It is doing more harm than good.

---

Can you let us know what a "reasonable amount" of Ivermectin is to prevent or cure COVID? Also, please let us know what you are basing that guidance on. Thanks in advance.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

We can debate whether or not the FDA should approve Ivermectin However, as it stands, the use of Ivermectin as an attempt to protect against or treat covid 19 is not helping anyone. People are stupid and will take more than a reasonable amount because there isn't reasonable directions on what a reasonable amount is to prevent or cure covid 19. Also, people are taking it thinking it will cure them when the disease has progressed whereas someone needs to head to urgent care or the ER. People are doing this because the internet or their friends are exaggerating Ivermectin's curative effects. It is doing more harm than good.

---

Can you let us know what a "reasonable amount" of Ivermectin is to prevent or cure COVID? Also, please let us know what you are basing that guidance on. Thanks in advance.

---

Are you mentally challenged? I have no idea what a reasonable amount is and neither do the idiots relying on ivermectin. That is my point. We are kind of on the same side here. Unfortunately, you are so ****ing biased and partisan that you don't even realize it.

---

You are being hysterical again and it's impacting your comprehension.

The truth is that the first question is not how much IVM to take but whether it's a safe and effective therapeutic. Right now the FDA says it isn't. For that matter, there are no credible studies which have shown it to be safe and effective. The biggest study on it was a disaster, to put it mildly, and was withdrawn. Other studies are being done. Is to evaluate IVM.

We have a number of safe and effective therapeutics so there is no reason anyone should be taking IVM, HCQ or any other snake oil. The irony behind the fact that the same idiots claiming they won't take the vaccine because it's unproven but they feel comfortable taking horse dewormer is not lost on the rest of us.

---

That's because genetically most of them are closer to being a horse's ass than an evolved human being.

Dr. and Licensed Pharmacist give Ivermectin to covid positive sick jail inmates without their knowledge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/they-said-they-were-vitamins-jail-inmates-unknowingly-got-ivermectin/ar-AAO58rh?li=BBnb7Kz

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

You can always deliver your messaging without lies and mistruths. You have been wrong a lot here bud. Do you still blame anti-vaxxers for the inability of the mRNA vaccines to deliver herd immunity to th U.S.?

By the way, the current messaging is better and at least more honest. It is closer to the truth, which is as follows:

You are likely to get covid anyway because the vaccines aren't stopping **** and we are staying open, but the current vaccines are easily the best chance to stay out of the hospital, even if you will need to get a shot every 6 months.

The main problem with Ivermectin is that people are not going to the hospital when they need to because they are taking a non-approved drug. There are a few idiots who take dangerous amounts as well.

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

I love that oski is such an inveterate contrarian and conspiracist that he's being forced to defend a product that he knows is BS and that no one in their right mind would take as a substitute for vaccines (which is what they are doing) or as an alternative treatment when we have proven safe and effective therapeutics.

A day in the life of an anti-vaxxer.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people..

---

evolution in action, darnit

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

What about if you're John Elway?

Big C said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

What about if you're John Elway?

---

This is why you are one of my favorite posters here. Mr. Ed should ask his vet first.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

Here are the two paragraphs above your quoted paragraph, Francis.

"Our study also has some limitations. First, the QoE was low or very low for all outcomes. However, our study evaluated the best current available evidence, and all IVM effects were negative. Second, we included only 10 RCTs, 5 of which used placebo treatment as the control, and studies included relatively small numbers of participants. However, included RCTs are the studies available through 22 March 2021. Third, all selected RCTs evaluated patients with mild or mild to moderate COVID-19. However, the supposed benefit of IVM has been positioned precisely for mild disease, but we did not find differential IVM effects between these 2 severity categories. Fourth, some outcomes were scarce, in particular all-cause mortality rates and SAEs; we adjusted for zero events in one or both RCT arms in our analyses of these outcomes. Finally, analyses of primary outcomes excluding studies with short follow-up (510 days) showed similar IVM effects.

In conclusion, compared with SOC or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality rate, LOS, respiratory viral clearance, AEs, or SAEs in RCTs of patients with mild to moderate COVID-19. We did not find data about IVM effects on clinical improvement or the need for mechanical ventilation. Additional ongoing RCTs should be completed to update our analyses. In the meanwhile, IVM is not a viable option for treating patients with COVID-19, and should be used only within clinical trials."

Sounds like not enough data to approve versus standard of care and more testing need be done. Not surprising with such tiny samples.

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

Sounds like not enough data to approve versus standard of care and more testing need be done. Not surprising with such tiny samples.

---

On the contrary it sounds like they evaluated the RCT studies that have been done and have concluded that IVM doesn't work. Sure there are limitations to the study, but your editorializing gets it backwards.

I give them credit for not relying on withdrawn fraudulent papers, unlike the meta-study you chose to reference. We all know what time you would be singing if there was this level of support mRNA vaccines.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

Sounds like not enough data to approve versus standard of care and more testing need be done. Not surprising with such tiny samples.

---

On the contrary it sounds like they evaluated the RCT studies that have been done and have concluded that IVM doesn't work. Sure there are limitations to the study, but your editorializing gets it backwards.

I give them credit for not relying on withdrawn fraudulent papers, unlike the meta-study you chose to reference. We all know what time you would be singing if there was this level of support mRNA vaccines.

---

I don't support Ivermectin, Francis. I merely defend it against your misleading, emotional attacks.

My issues with mRNA vaccines have to do with their safety, durability, boostability, and incredible cold chain requirements. Ivermectin has actually been proven safe when used as directed. Its effectiveness is in question, and you can find idiots (throughout 330 million Americans) who take 5 plus times what is safe.

Are unsanctioned abortion clinics snake oil too?

((throws rock and then runs and hides))

I had not heard for Ivermectin until a couple days ago, in this thread.

Just today in my Twitter feed, I heard of it again. There are/were many articles about overdoses in some area of Oklahoma, so bad that there were back-ups to provide support for these folks, gunshot victims were unable to receive proper medical attention because of such a fiasco...

The hospital system came-out to refute the story - stating they did not treat anyone with respect to Ivermectin complications / overdose, and that all emergency care patients have been treated, no one turned away.

What the heck is going-on in this country? What has happened to the once very professional field of journalism, like the checking of sources, here the obvious one, the hospital system itself? Maddow Tweeted this too, maybe others with massive followings? If so, have those Tweets been "addressed" (corrected, noted as disinfo, removed)?

I don't believe in self-medicating, and most especially not with something like this! I'm onboard with that message, BUT when those who we entrust to deliver such important messaging corrupt it with this type of unsubstantiated crap, it unfortunately casts doubt on everything else, including the factual, here potentially live-saving information.

EDIT / ADD: A few months old, but given the above example, and many others, I seriously doubt there has been improvement in this sorry state: https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

dimitrig said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

I had not heard for Ivermectin until a couple days ago, in this thread.

Just today in my Twitter feed, I heard of it again. There are/were many articles about overdoses in some area of Oklahoma, so bad that there were back-ups to provide support for these folks, gunshot victims were unable to receive proper medical attention because of such a fiasco...

The hospital system came-out to refute the story - stating they did not treat anyone with respect to Ivermectin complications / overdose, and that all emergency care patients have been treated, no one turned away.

What the heck is going-on in this country? What has happened to the once very professional field of journalism, like the checking of sources, here the obvious one, the hospital system itself? Maddow Tweeted this too, maybe others with massive followings? If so, have those Tweets been "addressed" (corrected, noted as disinfo, removed)?

I don't believe in self-medicating, and most especially not with something like this! I'm onboard with that message, BUT when those who we entrust to deliver such important messaging corrupt it with this type of unsubstantiated crap, it unfortunately casts doubt on everything else, including the factual, here potentially live-saving information.

EDIT / ADD: A few months old, but given the above example, and many others, I seriously doubt there has been improvement in this sorry state: https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

---

Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit are not reliable news sources.

That should be obvious to everyone.

---

Unfortunately, it is not so obvious to everyone - and more importantly when the actual source is a local news outfit, then relayed by national mainstream news outlets, like the aforementioned Maddow... Twitter is the funnel.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

From Yale. Man, you are so sure of yourself and are shaping facts to fit your conclusions, like always.

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

oski003 said:

---

Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

From Yale. Man, you are so sure of yourself and are shaping facts to fit your conclusions, like always.

---

How are those links in any way responsive to this discussion? You said previously you don't support IVM. Has that changed? Are you now suggesting people should take IVM prior to FDA approval?

There is no need for you to be oblique here, just tell us how you really feel. I'm not sure why you are playing games here.

I have been quite clear in my statements and I don't think anyone but you is having trouble understanding them. The fact that there is a meta-analysis that includes people from Yale does not change anything. The FDA has not approved IVM and I would not recommend people taking unapproved drugs. Despite the Yale connection, the only way to resolve this is with a proper trial and that's for the FDA to judge, not people like you and me.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, Peru did not re-introduce IVM and has seen cases and deaths fall 95% from their peak this spring.

Cal89 said:

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dimitrig said:

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Cal89 said:

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I had not heard for Ivermectin until a couple days ago, in this thread.

Just today in my Twitter feed, I heard of it again. There are/were many articles about overdoses in some area of Oklahoma, so bad that there were back-ups to provide support for these folks, gunshot victims were unable to receive proper medical attention because of such a fiasco...

The hospital system came-out to refute the story - stating they did not treat anyone with respect to Ivermectin complications / overdose, and that all emergency care patients have been treated, no one turned away.

What the heck is going-on in this country? What has happened to the once very professional field of journalism, like the checking of sources, here the obvious one, the hospital system itself? Maddow Tweeted this too, maybe others with massive followings? If so, have those Tweets been "addressed" (corrected, noted as disinfo, removed)?

I don't believe in self-medicating, and most especially not with something like this! I'm onboard with that message, BUT when those who we entrust to deliver such important messaging corrupt it with this type of unsubstantiated crap, it unfortunately casts doubt on everything else, including the factual, here potentially live-saving information.

EDIT / ADD: A few months old, but given the above example, and many others, I seriously doubt there has been improvement in this sorry state: https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

---

Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit are not reliable news sources.

That should be obvious to everyone.

---

Unfortunately, it is not so obvious to everyone - and more importantly when the actual source is a local news outfit, then relayed by national mainstream news outlets, like the aforementioned Maddow... Twitter is the funnel.

---

Nobody trusts the media the government or the medical establishment. Accordingly social media "journalism" replaces "real journalism" but there is precious little real journalism either, plus social media journalism ultimately serves the interests of the tech oligarchy not any form of "truth"

dimitrig said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

I had not heard for Ivermectin until a couple days ago, in this thread.

Just today in my Twitter feed, I heard of it again. There are/were many articles about overdoses in some area of Oklahoma, so bad that there were back-ups to provide support for these folks, gunshot victims were unable to receive proper medical attention because of such a fiasco...

The hospital system came-out to refute the story - stating they did not treat anyone with respect to Ivermectin complications / overdose, and that all emergency care patients have been treated, no one turned away.

What the heck is going-on in this country? What has happened to the once very professional field of journalism, like the checking of sources, here the obvious one, the hospital system itself? Maddow Tweeted this too, maybe others with massive followings? If so, have those Tweets been "addressed" (corrected, noted as disinfo, removed)?

I don't believe in self-medicating, and most especially not with something like this! I'm onboard with that message, BUT when those who we entrust to deliver such important messaging corrupt it with this type of unsubstantiated crap, it unfortunately casts doubt on everything else, including the factual, here potentially live-saving information.

EDIT / ADD: A few months old, but given the above example, and many others, I seriously doubt there has been improvement in this sorry state: https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

---

Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit are not reliable news sources.

That should be obvious to everyone.

---

Sadly SFGate which is largely the online portal for the SF Comical, utilizes quite a bit of nationally derived clickbait, and pseudo articles that are just above-the-link blurbs that lead to reddit, instagram, and twitter.

Anarchistbear said:

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Cal89 said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Cal89 said:

---

I had not heard for Ivermectin until a couple days ago, in this thread.

Just today in my Twitter feed, I heard of it again. There are/were many articles about overdoses in some area of Oklahoma, so bad that there were back-ups to provide support for these folks, gunshot victims were unable to receive proper medical attention because of such a fiasco...

The hospital system came-out to refute the story - stating they did not treat anyone with respect to Ivermectin complications / overdose, and that all emergency care patients have been treated, no one turned away.

What the heck is going-on in this country? What has happened to the once very professional field of journalism, like the checking of sources, here the obvious one, the hospital system itself? Maddow Tweeted this too, maybe others with massive followings? If so, have those Tweets been "addressed" (corrected, noted as disinfo, removed)?

I don't believe in self-medicating, and most especially not with something like this! I'm onboard with that message, BUT when those who we entrust to deliver such important messaging corrupt it with this type of unsubstantiated crap, it unfortunately casts doubt on everything else, including the factual, here potentially live-saving information.

EDIT / ADD: A few months old, but given the above example, and many others, I seriously doubt there has been improvement in this sorry state: https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/

---

Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit are not reliable news sources.

That should be obvious to everyone.

---

Unfortunately, it is not so obvious to everyone - and more importantly when the actual source is a local news outfit, then relayed by national mainstream news outlets, like the aforementioned Maddow... Twitter is the funnel.

---

Nobody trusts the media the government or the medical establishment. Accordingly social media "journalism" replaces "real journalism" but there is precious little real journalism either, plus social media journalism ultimately serves the interests of the tech oligarchy not any form of "truth"

---

So how do you find out what is true?

sycasey said:

---

So how do you find out what is true?

---

by a certain age most of us look for agreeable sources, w/o challenging own views
# get off my lawn

And as we talk about the shift from pandemic to endemic - I'm curious if people are looking at the new case rates in their home counties. It seems like the virus is continuing to run pretty hard (mostly in lower income neighborhoods) but infection rates don't seem to display the same spiking they did before. Contra Costa has been looking relatively flat at 350-400 new cases a day average for almost all of August. Are these small spikes just overlapping enough to produce a false steady state or is this what covid looks like as it makes its way through the unvaxd population and smaller amount of breakthrough cases while surrounded by a mostly vaxd population?

Also re: IVM, this is part of the effect of networked phase of the info era. The speed of information has changed, the ability to reach mass audiences has changed. The volatility of just about everything is higher. Politicians and talking heads continue to whip up furor to sell their products via fear and ideological righteousness as they have done since the stone ages. None of this is new, it just happens faster. Journalism, for all it's many great contributions, is not some unassailable ivory tower.

Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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oski003 said:

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Ivermectin is recommended by the CDC to be given by the physicians for preventative treatment of all refugees for intestinal parasites (not covid).

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/guidelines/overseas-guidelines.html

---

That's not particularly relevant to what's happening now. The idiots eating horse paste believe you need much higher doses and can't get prescriptions.

Look at Oklahoma - ERs are filling up with IVM overdoses.

https://www.insider.com/oklahomas-emergency-rooms-are-clogged-with-people-overdosing-on-ivermectin-2021-9

Quote:

---

A doctor in rural Oklahoma said the number of people overdosing on the deworming medication ivermectin meant for livestock was so high that emergency rooms were filled to the brim.

The situation is so dire that people with gunshot wounds have to wait their turn to get treatment, Dr. Jason McElyea, an ER physician affiliated with hospitals in Sallisaw, told NBC affiliate KFOR.

McElyea said the hospitals he worked at became overwhelmed after people started taking ivermectin, believing unverified claims that it's an effective COVID-19 treatment.

"The ERs are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated," McElyea said.

---

---

Overdosing on Ivermectin is not good.

Do you know when the results of these studies will come out? It is a little strange that it took so long for these phase 3 studies to start.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://www.principletrial.org/

---

The first one you linked estimates early 2023. I'm not an expert on IVM or other untested snake oil therapeutics that idiots think will save them from a disease they believe is no big deal, but I've read that there are studies in a number of different countries, including Brazil.

The sad thing is that this sort of misinformation is poisoning dumb people and making the pandemic worse for health care workers and the rest of us. These are the same idiots complaining about "unproven" vaccines which are actually proven meanwhile they are taking veterinary meds. We have cheap and effective therapeutics like dexamethasone. We have expensive and very effective therapeutics like Regeneron - that's what all of the conservative leaders take when they get COVID. Look at what vaccinated Greg Abbott did when he got COVID - he didn't experiment. Ditto for Lindsey Graham. Ditto for Trump.

---

You and others like you are the problem here. Ivermectin is not approved and should not be taken. However, completely lying about what it is breeds distrust. It is in an active phase 3 FDA approved trial to treat covid. Furthermore, you clearly don't understand how FDA trials work. The study ends in 2023 because that it how long they are monitoring the participants. They can grant EUA and BLA well prior to that date as they have done with the vaccines. It is not snake oil.

Further, this is is a United States based trial of 15,000 people run by Duke University and Vanderbilt University.

---

Yes, I'm the reason effing morons are eating horse dewormer paste and filling up ERs in shiethole states. They are pooping their pants, losing eyesight and body functions from taking massive doses of veterinary medicine. That is snake oil.

Your take is just more hysterical ramblings from a conspiracy theorist.

No one should be taking ivermectin for COVID unless they are in a clinical trial. I'm not criticizing clinical trials or the FDA the way that you selectively do. I'm criticizing idiots who treat the FDA like a matador in order to facilitate whatever unhinged conspiracy theory they are currently into.

The people eating horse dewormer identify with people like you. They support your unhinged theories. This is not about me.

---

Fyi

https://oce.ovid.com/article/00045391-202108000-00007/HTML

---

Thanks for pointing me to a meta-study based at least in part on Elgazzar's flawed withdrawn study. Doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies when the lead author of your study says that "we had no reason to doubt the integrity" of an ethically-challenged plagiarist who was forced to withdraw his garbage paper, and yet still relies on that study in his meta-analysis.

If you want to choose random studies, here's one that says that IVM is not a viable treatment for COVID patients.

Quote:

---

Compared with the standard of care or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, LOS, or viral clearance in RCTs in patients with mostly mild COVID-19. IVM did not have an effect on AEs or SAEs and is not a viable option to treat patients with COVID-19.

---

Regardless of whether some amount of IVM could possibly be effective in treating COVID, the bottom line hasn't changed. We are a year and a half into this pandemic (now likely endemic). We have viable therapeutics and vaccines. There is no reason for anyone to be taking drugs prior to the FDA approval. So many of the same people remain skeptical of EUA vaccines but are literally taking horse medication, pooping their pants and ending up in ERs. It may turn out that professionals determine that IVM can be safe and effective and at that point it would make sense for people to begin using it. Not before then. And never horse meds.

---

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04885530

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

From Yale. Man, you are so sure of yourself and are shaping facts to fit your conclusions, like always.

---

How are those links in any way responsive to this discussion? You said previously you don't support IVM. Has that changed? Are you now suggesting people should take IVM prior to FDA approval?

There is no need for you to be oblique here, just tell us how you really feel. I'm not sure why you are playing games here.

I have been quite clear in my statements and I don't think anyone but you is having trouble understanding them. The fact that there is a meta-analysis that includes people from Yale does not change anything. The FDA has not approved IVM and I would not recommend people taking unapproved drugs. Despite the Yale connection, the only way to resolve this is with a proper trial and that's for the FDA to judge, not people like you and me.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering, Peru did not re-introduce IVM and has seen cases and deaths fall 95% from their peak this spring.

---

I don't support Ivermectin, but I will defend it against your lies, which seem driven by an emotional crusadw.
I can't be more transparent than that. You pedal misinformation.

---

Please point to a single lie that I've told. Please point to any misinformation I've posted. Don't be coy - show your work.

---

Ivermectin is not snake oil. It has not been proven effective in large studies, but it is not snake oil. This is clear to anyone looking at Ivermectin objectively and without ulterior motives.