bear2034 said:calbear93 said:bear2034 said:calbear93 said:Do you feel like Trump or someone else is imposing on your beliefs?bear2034 said:
cb93, I find it interesting that outside of your position on abortion, there's no discernable difference in the content of your posts between you and those on the far left. It seems you continually take pride and subscribe to this notion that you're some kind of centrist or independent and therefore, above the chaotic political climate that we're all trying to navigate through. Nothing could be further from the truth. I understand you're disappointed that Chris Christie didn't make the cut, but Chris Christie is not a centrist, he's just a political hack. At the same time, this makes you somewhat mysterious since I don't know many Christians who are silent about the current regime and all that's been happening the last four years whether in public or in private conversation while being consistently antagonistic not so much towards Trump but against the people who voted for him.
13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
I think you missed the point. It's Christian Nationalists (yes, denying it does not make them go away) and prosperity gospel (surprisingly very popular among the far right and extremely poor) who warped the gospel because of their ignorance or greed. They drag Jesus's name when we are supposed to be light of the world and to care for the weak, the less fortunate and poor without condition because we have been given unconditional love by God first. It is vertical love from God that is spread horizontally by Christians because we have been given everything that matters already - our reconciliation to God and our assurance of eternity with Him.
What about forcing government to establish Christianity as a national religion (whether directly or indirectly) is consistent with the Gospel? If you know the Gospel, there were sects of the Jewish community (obviously not all, since the entire church was founded by members of the Jewish community) who expected the messiah to come as someone who will overturn the Roman government. As such, they went from singing Hosannah to demanding he be crucified when he didn't take over the government. Why didn't Jesus take over the government? Because He was weak or didn't have the power? NO. Christian Nationalists are like those who demanded Jesus be crucified because they make God so small that it becomes about power in this world and about world government. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and Give to God what is God's
Why so judgmental? Haven't you heard others say the same thing to you?
I am sure they have. I am not judging your behavior as a non-believer. I am judging your false representation of Christianity. Nothing you do or say is consistent with the gospel. When there is a debate on Christianity, you refer to politics and misquote or take a quote of bible out of context (like some prosperity gospel preacher once did when he tried to justify why he spends so much of God's money donated by the church - he quoted a verse where the Roman soldiers put purple robe on Jesus - completely ignoring they did so during passion as they whipped him to mock Him - and saying even Jesus wore designer clothes - disgusting).
How would you know how much hope someone places in government? By your reasoning, isn't the non-believer more likely to do this? Why do you feel threatened by views that are counter to your own?
I am not threatened by your views. Most likely, we share common views on finances and personal views on political policies, although I don't demand that this world conform to my religious views, because this world will remain broken because of sin. Where I focus is on seeking justice for those who are underprivileged, whether working with the homeless, working with underprivileged kids, or fighting to protect the lives of those I believe have life and cannot protect themselves from death by those who pretend personal freedom includes ending someone else's life. I also believe in religious liberty for people to practice their faith, and hate that Democrats and liberal cities create such hostile environment for Christians and almost promote discrimination against Christians while being so afraid of insulting other religions T
Isn't there but only one God, the same God of the bible that Joe Biden put his right hand on at his inauguration?
There is only one true God, but there are those who proclaim to believe in God who actually worship politics, a charlatan, money etc. That's their God and not the one true God in three persons. So, who is your God? Does he promote things of this world or is He focus on His Holiness and your sanctification over your comfort and power in this world? If this world was his kingdom, the apostles would have lived comfortable lives. Instead, other than John who was exiled, they were all killed after difficult lives. But they are glorified in eternal life and benefitted from the grace of participating in His will in spreading the Church. Isn't that what the Bible shows? Did Paul ever try to change the government even as a Roman citizen? This world doesn't belong to Christians. The Church and not the government is God's body in this world until Jesus returns. Why do these Christian Nationalists put so much faith in changing the government, even at the risk of dragging Jesus's name through the mud?
Yes, we are all sinners, the Christian and the non-believer. Why do you bring up homosexuality? Is this what this is all about for you personally?
I bring up homosexuality, because fake "Christians" obsess over it as if their own lust, greed, anger, etc. are not equal sins. I bring that up because these Christians act as if they can earn their way to heaven by their works instead of by faith. If anyone had to be sinless to go to heaven, there is no hope for any of us. And that is why the Gospel is the good news. It is impossible for any one of us to earn it. Even one act of sin is offensive to God because it is an act of rebellion and putting ourselves as god. The only one who lived the perfect life we could not was Jesus, and that is why He could pay for the penalty of sin (God's wrath) of the believers that all of us deserved.
So, why focus on the sins of a non-believer? How are they worse than believers? How is someone who commits sexual sin worse than someone who commits sin of anger? It's not? Why not focus on Christians who get angry instead of picketing against someone who is not even saved committing sexual sin? The only reason a Chrisitan is spared is 100% because we put our faith in the completed work of Jesus who fully paid for all the believer's past, current and future sins. Nothing that we do earns us a step closer toward heaver Even our faith, as Paul writes in Romans, comes from Him so we cannot even boast about our faith. And only when acts of obedience (even if we will fail often until we die in this world) come from the changing of the heart do these acts mean anything. Not the acts themselves, but the heart that drives it. And those responses to faith are manifested in the "fruits of the Spirits". (love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control). How much are those are demonstrated by the far right (I already know it's not demonstrated by the far left either but they are not taking the Lord's name in vain). .When someone demonstrates acts of the flesh (idolatry; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness) and not the fruits of Spirit while proclaiming Christian Nationalism (as Trump does), you know they are not Christians because the Bible says so. Relying on the Bible is not judgment. That's not my judgment. All I am doing is reflecting the full context of the scripture back to you.
Agreed.
What part of that do you believe?
Maybe you believe in some form of Christian isolationism. But isn't this contrary to what God called us to do? You were called to be the light of the world and salt of the earth.
I don't believe in Christian isolationism,. I serve on missions, I work as leader of Boys and Girls Club, and I work with the homeless and at shelters for abused families to provide basic needs while sharing my faith. The Great Commission is not spreading hate through far right politics, mocking the poor and the needy, and every hateful thing the far right does while focusing on just sexual sin. The behavior by the far right like Gaetz and MTG and Jordan are not shining God's light. Tell me where in the Bible you could possibly get that. And quote the entire text. No, the way we treat the poor and the needy is how we demonstrate God's light. Don't take my word. Read the Bible and what Jesus says about his heart for the meek and the needy. I hate the liberal policies on government spending on everything because, while I agree with the need to protect the poor, it doesn't help to rob our future generation and take from the back of our children to satisfy our own guilt without any sacrifice from us. Doing good should involve actual sacrifice. When a group of us in our mem's group go to buy food, cook, and serve in shelters, we feel God's love for us. When we provide a safe space for inner city kids to get tutoring, work on STEM projects, play sports and be away from violence, we feel God's love for us. When we go to someplace in Mexico to rebuild a church and we share meals with the local Christians, sing praise, and pray together, we feel God's light and love. When I watch the rhetoric of politics, I feel the hatred of men and women. That's not God's light.
The mob called for Jesus to be crucified. They were influenced by the Jewish religious authorities who were threatened by Jesus because he exposed their hypocrisy. Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor overseeing the region, couldn't find anything that Jesus did wrong.
And you don't think Jesus would call out the hypocrisy of the prosperity gospel preachers many on the far right follow or the hypocrisy of people like Cruz, MTG, Jordan who give no comfort to those who are the most poor or needy while proclaiming they are religious?
Which verse?
The verse from Matthews on the narrow road and how that is not based on acting religious but on dying to the world - the verse you quote while talking about far right politics. Actually read the full context of Jesus's warning to us.
Maybe it's you who may have to pay some attention to the plank in your own eye?
See the thing is I am not judging your actions as a non-Christian. I am judging you taking God's name in vain and mispresenting the gospel. I am angered by you using false Christianity to spread hate. Unlike others, I have not attacked you for your behavior other than in the context of religion. However, anything that you add or detract from the Bible is false because us Christians believe that the scripture is sufficient as it lives in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. It does nothing for the faith and is belittling to the sufficiency of the Word to add the Constitution as appendix to the Bible and charge a ridiculous amount to the public. Might as well be a money changer in the temple. What did Jesus say that? What was His reaction in the Gospel?
Has God recently revealed sin in your life that you weren't aware of? Has anyone recently pointed out your blind spots?
Of course He does. Sanctification is a life-long project in me by Holy Spirit. Thank goodness it's not me who is changing my heart. I am forever completely unworthy on my own to ever approach God. It is only through Jesus that I am saved. I take no pride in my own actions. Even anything good that I do comes from God. Only the failures belong to me, but Jesus even uses that for my own spiritual benefit to reveal my need for Him
It seems your version of the Christian religion is somehow being influenced by your own politics?
Absolutely not. The only way I participate in politics is what I view as policies that will protect the weak and needy. And not just spending money we don't have and burdening future generations. And not just taxing others (while I believe we need higher taxes not to go on a spending spree but to bridge the deficit to protect our kids' futures)
God has entrusted me with meaningful wealth, and I view it as God's money. While it is tempting to see people flaunt their wealth knowing I could do so myself, I refrain because my treasure is not here. Instead, I constantly pray that I can serve His will in the way I deploy what He entrusted to me. That's my politics. I may have conservative views, but my contribution isn't to seek power or comfort through politics. I rarely get involved in politics, and I only contribute money when I see the other side spreading hate.
Today, President Biden declares this Easter, March 31, 'Transgender Day of Visibility'. The government will celebrate genital mutilation and pornography in school libraries on Christianity's holiest day. Do you support this with your silence? Or do you feel by speaking out against it, you are somehow behaving like, according to the left, a 'Christian nationalist'?
For someone who's very judgmental towards others, why so silent about Joe Biden's Catholicism?
Because I am not a catholic and don't believe in works based salvation, deifying a pope or Mary or believe in immaculate conception where Mary was also made sinless. I don't believe in adding to the scripture.
As I mentioned, discussion on religion takes you back to politics because you know the scripture has no support for what you believe.
And your retort is that while you and Trump are not really Christians but are really Christians in name only, Biden is not really a Christian either. I never said he was, and he doesn't use religion to justify his non-faithful political life and drag Jesus's name for his politics.
For Christians, today is a glorious day since our Lord is risen. So I will leave it here and hope you actually one day read the New Testament and find saving faith. Will let you have the last word which I know will be based on what you worship - far right rhetoric. Happy Easter.
