Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

In that time period, Ukraine has lost over half its population, one fifth of its territory,
and almost all of the 600,000 strong army it started the war with.

All of this could have been avoided with a Minsk III type agreement over a year ago, if it weren't for Boris Johnson, cookie monster Nuland and Co.

---

More blatant lies.

Putin doesnt have any interest in a Minsk agreement. They claim they do, but they dont. You keep saying they do, but they dont. Putin would not have said Ukrainians are not a people if he wanted a Minsk agreement.

---

All 3 non-Russian signatories of the original Minsk agreements, Merkel, Hollande and the Ukrainians came out and flat out stated that they had no intent of abiding by that peace treaty, that it was only signed in order to gain more time to rearm Ukraine. I've provided plenty of conclusive evidence to that effect.

Unfortunately the members of the Ukraine death cult somehow are not able to absorb this basic fact, or other evidence of Russia wanting a negotiated settlement in Istanbul, with facilitators like Israeli PM Bennett stating that NATO has scuttled these peace talks.

Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal

---

Your counter argument does not address the point I am making.

Vladimir Putin would not have honored a Minsk agreement. His invasion has been on going since 2014, first in Crimea, then in the donbass, now in the whole of ukraine.

When Putin says he wants a Minsk agreement he is lying. Just like when he lied about performing military exercises on the Ukrainian border and had no intention of invading Ukraine.

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

In that time period, Ukraine has lost over half its population, one fifth of its territory,
and almost all of the 600,000 strong army it started the war with.

All of this could have been avoided with a Minsk III type agreement over a year ago, if it weren't for Boris Johnson, cookie monster Nuland and Co.

---

More blatant lies.

Putin doesnt have any interest in a Minsk agreement. They claim they do, but they dont. You keep saying they do, but they dont. Putin would not have said Ukrainians are not a people if he wanted a Minsk agreement.

---

All 3 non-Russian signatories of the original Minsk agreements, Merkel, Hollande and the Ukrainians came out and flat out stated that they had no intent of abiding by that peace treaty, that it was only signed in order to gain more time to rearm Ukraine. I've provided plenty of conclusive evidence to that effect.

Unfortunately the members of the Ukraine death cult somehow are not able to absorb this basic fact, or other evidence of Russia wanting a negotiated settlement in Istanbul, with facilitators like Israeli PM Bennett stating that NATO has scuttled these peace talks.

Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal

---

Your counter argument does not address the point I am making.

Vladimir Putin would not have honored a Minsk agreement. His invasion has been on going since 2014, first in Crimea, then in the donbass, now in the whole of ukraine.

When Putin says he wants a Minsk agreement he is lying. Just like when he lied about performing military exercises on the Ukrainian border and had no intention of invading Ukraine.

---

How could your statement possibly be true if Russia annexed Crimea prior to the Minsk agreement?

Goldener Bar said:

---

1) Klarenberg is not a journalist, he’s a fascist troll.
2) The Grayzone is not a news website, it’s a pro-dictator conspiracy blog.
3) The NUJ isn’t a credible trade union, it’s a fucking joke. pic.twitter.com/VlMxZmFEh0

— Oz Katerji (@OzKaterji) June 2, 2023

---

No lies detected.

oski003 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

In that time period, Ukraine has lost over half its population, one fifth of its territory,
and almost all of the 600,000 strong army it started the war with.

All of this could have been avoided with a Minsk III type agreement over a year ago, if it weren't for Boris Johnson, cookie monster Nuland and Co.

---

More blatant lies.

Putin doesnt have any interest in a Minsk agreement. They claim they do, but they dont. You keep saying they do, but they dont. Putin would not have said Ukrainians are not a people if he wanted a Minsk agreement.

---

All 3 non-Russian signatories of the original Minsk agreements, Merkel, Hollande and the Ukrainians came out and flat out stated that they had no intent of abiding by that peace treaty, that it was only signed in order to gain more time to rearm Ukraine. I've provided plenty of conclusive evidence to that effect.

Unfortunately the members of the Ukraine death cult somehow are not able to absorb this basic fact, or other evidence of Russia wanting a negotiated settlement in Istanbul, with facilitators like Israeli PM Bennett stating that NATO has scuttled these peace talks.

Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal

---

Your counter argument does not address the point I am making.

Vladimir Putin would not have honored a Minsk agreement. His invasion has been on going since 2014, first in Crimea, then in the donbass, now in the whole of ukraine.

When Putin says he wants a Minsk agreement he is lying. Just like when he lied about performing military exercises on the Ukrainian border and had no intention of invading Ukraine.

---

How could your statement possibly be true if Russia annexed Crimea prior to the Minsk agreement?

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

golden sloth said:

---

oski003 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

In that time period, Ukraine has lost over half its population, one fifth of its territory,
and almost all of the 600,000 strong army it started the war with.

All of this could have been avoided with a Minsk III type agreement over a year ago, if it weren't for Boris Johnson, cookie monster Nuland and Co.

---

More blatant lies.

Putin doesnt have any interest in a Minsk agreement. They claim they do, but they dont. You keep saying they do, but they dont. Putin would not have said Ukrainians are not a people if he wanted a Minsk agreement.

---

All 3 non-Russian signatories of the original Minsk agreements, Merkel, Hollande and the Ukrainians came out and flat out stated that they had no intent of abiding by that peace treaty, that it was only signed in order to gain more time to rearm Ukraine. I've provided plenty of conclusive evidence to that effect.

Unfortunately the members of the Ukraine death cult somehow are not able to absorb this basic fact, or other evidence of Russia wanting a negotiated settlement in Istanbul, with facilitators like Israeli PM Bennett stating that NATO has scuttled these peace talks.

Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal

---

Your counter argument does not address the point I am making.

Vladimir Putin would not have honored a Minsk agreement. His invasion has been on going since 2014, first in Crimea, then in the donbass, now in the whole of ukraine.

When Putin says he wants a Minsk agreement he is lying. Just like when he lied about performing military exercises on the Ukrainian border and had no intention of invading Ukraine.

---

How could your statement possibly be true if Russia annexed Crimea prior to the Minsk agreement?

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

---

You shouldn't use something that somebody openly did prior to signing an agreement with them as a basis for arguing they won't honor that agreement (or future agreements). You sound like a NATO shill (or a warmonger) spouting a firehose of falsehoods.

golden sloth said:

---

oski003 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

In that time period, Ukraine has lost over half its population, one fifth of its territory,
and almost all of the 600,000 strong army it started the war with.

All of this could have been avoided with a Minsk III type agreement over a year ago, if it weren't for Boris Johnson, cookie monster Nuland and Co.

---

More blatant lies.

Putin doesnt have any interest in a Minsk agreement. They claim they do, but they dont. You keep saying they do, but they dont. Putin would not have said Ukrainians are not a people if he wanted a Minsk agreement.

---

All 3 non-Russian signatories of the original Minsk agreements, Merkel, Hollande and the Ukrainians came out and flat out stated that they had no intent of abiding by that peace treaty, that it was only signed in order to gain more time to rearm Ukraine. I've provided plenty of conclusive evidence to that effect.

Unfortunately the members of the Ukraine death cult somehow are not able to absorb this basic fact, or other evidence of Russia wanting a negotiated settlement in Istanbul, with facilitators like Israeli PM Bennett stating that NATO has scuttled these peace talks.

Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal

---

Your counter argument does not address the point I am making.

Vladimir Putin would not have honored a Minsk agreement. His invasion has been on going since 2014, first in Crimea, then in the donbass, now in the whole of ukraine.

When Putin says he wants a Minsk agreement he is lying. Just like when he lied about performing military exercises on the Ukrainian border and had no intention of invading Ukraine.

---

How could your statement possibly be true if Russia annexed Crimea prior to the Minsk agreement?

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

---

You're speculating that he "lied".

Meanwhile, all the major leaders of NATO countries Germany, France, etc. say - ON THE RECORD - the following:

1. They had no intention to abide by Minsk (they lied)
2. The purpose was to build up the Ukrainian military (which they did)
3. General Austin has said their goal is to "weaken" Russia
4. NATO / Biden / Blinken have stopped peace talks at least twice

Why do you continually OMIT these facts?

…the Fat Man would have just signed it over….for a finder's fee.

movielover said:

---

bearister said:

---

…the Fat Man would have just signed it over….for a finder's fee.

---

Actually, Putin didn't dare move under Trump's watch. He takes advantage of the weakness of Obama & Biden.

---

Actually, Trump was degrading NATO to Putin's benefit which is a bigger win for Putin than Ukraine

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

1) Klarenberg is not a journalist, he’s a fascist troll.
2) The Grayzone is not a news website, it’s a pro-dictator conspiracy blog.
3) The NUJ isn’t a credible trade union, it’s a fucking joke. pic.twitter.com/VlMxZmFEh0

— Oz Katerji (@OzKaterji) June 2, 2023

---

No lies detected.

---

---

So if the Flat Earth Society demands a regular spot in my Op-Ed section and I refuse, that means it's news that the Earth is really flat?

Yeah, Putin effing LOVED Trump as President, because he literally owned him. Everybody knows that, which is why so many Republicans actually like Russia now.

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Goldener Bar said:

---

1) Klarenberg is not a journalist, he’s a fascist troll.
2) The Grayzone is not a news website, it’s a pro-dictator conspiracy blog.
3) The NUJ isn’t a credible trade union, it’s a fucking joke. pic.twitter.com/VlMxZmFEh0

— Oz Katerji (@OzKaterji) June 2, 2023

---

No lies detected.

---

---

So if the Flat Earth Society demands a regular spot in my Op-Ed section and I refuse, that means it's news that the Earth is really flat?

---

I appreciate you pretending that an opinion column and an article on events are the same thing.

Unsurprisingly, what probably caused Klarenberg to be detained by Big Brother was writing an article about the BBC's Big Brother-esque disinformation correspondent. Not Flat Earth Society Op-Ed by any stretch, but you do you.

Little is known about the history of Marianna Spring, the BBC’s first “disinformation correspondent”

But her record of churning out disinfo of her own in the service of British government objectives sends a red flag up over the BBC's new Verify projecthttps://t.co/71DlgHz4h7

— The Grayzone (@TheGrayzoneNews) June 1, 2023

---

Sorry Yogi, you are not getting me to read any more Grayzone bull****.

golden sloth said:

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

---

Sounds like shills are back to misrepresenting Minsk. Russia falsely claims not to have signed it AND that Ukraine is at fault for breaching the agreement. This is the firehose of falsehood at work. If Russia didn't sign Minsk, then how can it claim offense at the breach by Ukraine? Why is Russia lying about being a party to Minsk and why did Russia continue to support the separatists who never abided by Minsk? It's all preposterous and it periodically resurfaces in this thread.

At this point you can be sure that anyone who takes the position that Minsk is a one-sided failure is either disingenuous, acting in bad faith or both. Typically both in this thread.

Russia had no intention of abiding by Minsk (or supporting the puppet separatists) and Ukraine would be foolish to believe that any bilateral agreement would be adhered to by Russia if Putin believed that breaching the agreement could personally benefit him. Ukraine will always face an existential risk to its existence so long as Putin or people who agree with him rule Russia.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

---

Sounds like shills are back to misrepresenting Minsk. Russia falsely claims not to have signed it AND that Ukraine is at fault for breaching the agreement. This is the firehose of falsehood at work. If Russia didn't sign Minsk, then how can it claim offense at the breach by Ukraine? Why is Russia lying about being a party to Minsk and why did Russia continue to support the separatists who never abided by Minsk? It's all preposterous and it periodically resurfaces in this thread.

At this point you can be sure that anyone who takes the position that Minsk is a one-sided failure is either disingenuous, acting in bad faith or both. Typically both in this thread.

Russia had no intention of abiding by Minsk (or supporting the puppet separatists) and Ukraine would be foolish to believe that any bilateral agreement would be adhered to by Russia if Putin believed that breaching the agreement could personally benefit him. Ukraine will always face an existential risk to its existence so long as Putin or people who agree with him rule Russia.

---

So according to you, Ukraine, Germany and France wanted to abide by the Minsk Agreements despite the fact that they all flat out stated they never wanted to and used it as a stalling tactic to rearm Ukraine, while the Russian parties who said they would abide by it were lying all along.

How dumb is this argument?

dajo is a fact free poster.

Big C said:

---

Yeah, Putin effing LOVED Trump as President, because he literally owned him. Everybody knows that, which is why so many Republicans actually like Russia now.

---

You're smoking the stinky weed today.

The Progressives and President Trump both applied multiple sanctions to Putin. (See, honestly.)

Trump also supplied Ukraine with defensive military weapons; Obama sent pillows.

President Trump allegedly told Putin in private: "You invade Ukraine, I bomb Moscow."

In fact, Putin invaded Ukraine under President Bumbles Watch. The whole world knows this.

Did you score the stank on Telegraph?

Cal88 said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

golden sloth said:

---

The russian invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with the illegal annexation of crimea. Russia then signed the Minsk accords. But Russia had no intention of honoring the Minsk accords, as they were continuing to finance and support separatists in the donbass with the intention of annexing the donbass. Putin lied when he signed the Minsk accords, just like when he lied about not having his special military operation.

---

Sounds like shills are back to misrepresenting Minsk. Russia falsely claims not to have signed it AND that Ukraine is at fault for breaching the agreement. This is the firehose of falsehood at work. If Russia didn't sign Minsk, then how can it claim offense at the breach by Ukraine? Why is Russia lying about being a party to Minsk and why did Russia continue to support the separatists who never abided by Minsk? It's all preposterous and it periodically resurfaces in this thread.

At this point you can be sure that anyone who takes the position that Minsk is a one-sided failure is either disingenuous, acting in bad faith or both. Typically both in this thread.

Russia had no intention of abiding by Minsk (or supporting the puppet separatists) and Ukraine would be foolish to believe that any bilateral agreement would be adhered to by Russia if Putin believed that breaching the agreement could personally benefit him. Ukraine will always face an existential risk to its existence so long as Putin or people who agree with him rule Russia.

---

So according to you, Ukraine, Germany and France wanted to abide by the Minsk Agreements despite the fact that they all flat out stated they never wanted to and used it as a stalling tactic to rearm Ukraine, while the Russian parties who said they would abide by it were lying all along.

How dumb is this argument?

---

Cleveland Clinic: Delusional Disorder

"Delusional disorder is a type of mental health condition in which a person can't tell what's real from what's imagined. There are many types, including persecutory, jealous and grandiose types. It's treatable with psychotherapy and medication."

movielover said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, Putin effing LOVED Trump as President, because he literally owned him. Everybody knows that, which is why so many Republicans actually like Russia now.

---

You're smoking the stinky weed today.

The Progressives and President Trump both applied multiple sanctions to Putin. (See, honestly.)

Trump also supplied Ukraine with defensive military weapons; Obama sent pillows.

President Trump allegedly told Putin in private: "You invade Ukraine, I bomb Moscow."

In fact, Putin invaded Ukraine under President Bumbles Watch. The whole world knows this.

Did you score the stank on Telegraph?

---

I'm not sure what to make of "movielover II: the spicy version", but the shift is ever-so-mildly amusing, for now.

There are a lot of things that Trump "allegedly" did, in or related to Russia... like make a pee tape. Nobody in their right mind believes that Trump got tough with Putin in private.

I actually met an Oakland Progressive once that wanted a golden shower, but I couldn't help her out.

The pee tape has been thoroughly debunked along with all of the other Clinton Democrats fraudulent fabrications - which were supported by the FBI and DOJ.

When first inaugurated, President Trump revealed his unpredictability. At first I thought it was a misplaced, but in retrospect it was brilliant.

PM Xi was visiting President Trump at Mar-a-lago. It was a beautiful reception, and President Trump's granddaughter sang a traditional Chinese song in perfect Mandarin. It was special and unique. Then during dinner, POTUS Trump gave the order to drop a few bombs down terrorist rat holes. Complete unpredictability and it rattled the Panda.

President Trump rattled the Europeans from the jump when he scolded Europe for not paying their NATO financial commitments. The proof is in the pudding: Putin made major military moves while Obama and Biden were (are) in office.

Like they said in Harmon pickup games - ball don't lie.

movielover said:

---

I actually met an Oakland Progressive once that wanted a golden shower, but I couldn't help her out.

The pee tape has been thoroughly debunked along with all of the other Clinton Democrats fraudulent fabrications - which were supported by the FBI and DOJ.

When first inaugurated, President Trump revealed his unpredictability. At first I thought it was a misplaced, but in retrospect it was brilliant.

PM Xi was visiting President Trump at Mar-a-lago. It was a beautiful reception, and President Trump's granddaughter sang a traditional Chinese song in perfect Mandarin. It was special and unique. Then during dinner, POTUS Trump gave the order to drop a few bombs down terrorist rat holes. Complete unpredictability and it rattled the Panda.

President Trump rattled the Europeans from the jump when he scolded Europe for not paying their NATO financial commitments. The proof is in the pudding: Putin made major military moves while Obama and Biden were (are) in office.

Like they said in Harmon pickup games - ball don't lie.

---

That's some spicy stuff, movielover! A story I heard was that Trump wanted to get Macron off his guard, so he swept an entire platter of escargots down his own gullet, then shat them out onto Macron's fancy French shoes (major faux pas in French culture, btw). If I were Trump, I would PM you to try and convince you to be my authorized biographer and you could use that Macron story!

The pee tape may have been "debunked*", but it seems far more likely than Trump ever getting tough with Putin, seeing as Putin effing owns Trump.


* speaking of facts being "debunked", supposedly the fact that the Clintons killed Vince Foster and then ate his entrails has also been debunked... but we all know it really happened, right? Did you know that the word "debunk" comes from the French, debunque, which means "really happened"? It's true!

movielover said:

---

Deflection for Obama & Biden bending over?

---

Maybe, maybe not. Hey, I gotta try something, right? And I'm out of ammo! Kinda like I'm Ukraine and ur Russia. Hey, no wonder you like Trump: You're Russia and you effing own him!

movielover said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, Putin effing LOVED Trump as President, because he literally owned him. Everybody knows that, which is why so many Republicans actually like Russia now.

---

You're smoking the stinky weed today.

The Progressives and President Trump both applied multiple sanctions to Putin. (See, honestly.)

Trump also supplied Ukraine with defensive military weapons; Obama sent pillows.

President Trump allegedly told Putin in private: "You invade Ukraine, I bomb Moscow."

In fact, Putin invaded Ukraine under President Bumbles Watch. The whole world knows this.

Did you score the stank on Telegraph?

---

When Trump became President he began efforts to remove sanctions on Russia. Word got to Congress and Congress passed veto proof legislation with sanctions on Russia. Trump signed the legislation he opposed because he is a weak man.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/trump-signs-russia-sanctions-bill-he-opposed/amp/