The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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Cal88
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golden sloth said:

I checked up on this thread after checking out a few months ago (and believe me I'm happy I did that). I see the idiots are still flooding the zone with bad and intentionally misleading information, spouting off wild and outlandish claims that contradict previous statements and positions while also having no semblance of actually coming true. All this while always claiming they were right all along.

I'm happy I disengaged from the idiots and trolls.


The "idiots are flooding the zone spouting off wild and outlandish claims" taken from articles in Time Magazine, NBC, Economist, NYT etc., that are quoting top Ukrainian officials like the head of the Ukrainian army.



Who is being unreasonable here?
10% For The Big Guy
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golden sloth said:

I checked up on this thread after checking out a few months ago (and believe me I'm happy I did that). I see the idiots are still flooding the zone with bad and intentionally misleading information, spouting off wild and outlandish claims that contradict previous statements and positions while also having no semblance of actually coming true. All this while always claiming they were right all along.

I'm happy I disengaged from the idiots and trolls.
Typical DemoKKKrat hates poor people
blungld
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10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.
oski003
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blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?
sycasey
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

Also prevented them from actually conquering Ukraine.
10% For The Big Guy
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.
We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?
We did a great job of hurting Ukraine, if you want to talk about who's hurting.
Zippergate
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Also prevented them from actually conquering Ukraine.


So say the neocons, but it's hard to reconcile that view with the fact that Russia was prepared to sign a peace deal six weeks into the conflict. Peace was only averted because the US/UK insisted on continuing the war.
sycasey
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Zippergate said:


Also prevented them from actually conquering Ukraine.


So say the neocons, but it's hard to reconcile that view with the fact that Russia was prepared to sign a peace deal six weeks into the conflict.

That is not remotely a "fact."
Big C
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oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

It's 2023. 75 billion is nothing. We just print up some more. Okay, my great-grandchildren may have to pay the piper, but I'll be long gone, so who cares!
10% For The Big Guy
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sycasey said:

Zippergate said:


Also prevented them from actually conquering Ukraine.


So say the neocons, but it's hard to reconcile that view with the fact that Russia was prepared to sign a peace deal six weeks into the conflict.

That is not remotely a "fact."
Somebody isn't dealing well with the U.S.'s loss.
Cal88
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sycasey said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

Also prevented them from actually conquering Ukraine.

The Russians were not interested in conquering Ukraine. Mearsheimer on the subject, two short passages from a recent interview:

"the Russians were not interested in conquering territory, they wanted to work out a security arrangement"


Mearsheimer: "no evidence of Russia being driven by imperialism in Ukraine":

Cal88
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blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.

We are fighting a proxy war, in which we have used up over 400,000 Ukrainian lives in an attempt to accomplish a "grand chessboard" geopolitical move. "We" did lose this gambit, Ukraine is down to conscripting geezers and pregnant women on the front to keep this awful plan going.
Zippergate
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Confirmed by multiple sources. But for the sake of argument, would your opinion of the last 18 months change if you found out that the US/UK nixed a peace deal?
sycasey
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Zippergate said:

Confirmed by multiple sources. But for the sake of argument, would your opinion of the last 18 months change if you found out that the US/UK nixed a peace deal?

That didn't happen, so I won't have to change my opinion.

But yes, theoretically if that was true (it's not) then I would change my opinion.

The problem with any Russian assurances is that they are written on toilet paper. There's no reason to believe Putin was ever serious about making "peace," while he's sending his tanks to Kiev.
10% For The Big Guy
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Cal88
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Big C said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

It's 2023. 75 billion is nothing. We just print up some more. Okay, my great-grandchildren may have to pay the piper, but I'll be long gone, so who cares!

The next round of debt financing will carry an interest of 5% vs the previous ~1%, that alone will raise next year's debt servicing burden by around $250 billion...
Big C
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Cal88 said:

Big C said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

It's 2023. 75 billion is nothing. We just print up some more. Okay, my great-grandchildren may have to pay the piper, but I'll be long gone, so who cares!

The next round of debt financing will carry an interest of 5% vs the previous ~1%, that alone will raise next year's debt servicing burden by around $250 billion...

Only private individuals worry about "billions" anymore (even hundreds of them). For the US government, the conversation doesn't even begin until you get to trillions.
SFCityBear
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Big C said:

Cal88 said:

Big C said:

oski003 said:

blungld said:

10% For The Big Guy said:

The U.S. lost,
The U.S lost!!!! And Russia won!!! Wow. I didn't know we were even fighting, and we lost!!! Awesome!! Yippeee! This makes me so happy! Warms my heart to think of those dead American soldiers on Veterans Day and Putin smiling. We need more great patriots like you to remind us of what makes this country great and get us into the holiday spirit.


We did send 75 billion to Ukraine. Perhaps we didn't really lose because we hurt Russia?

It's 2023. 75 billion is nothing. We just print up some more. Okay, my great-grandchildren may have to pay the piper, but I'll be long gone, so who cares!

The next round of debt financing will carry an interest of 5% vs the previous ~1%, that alone will raise next year's debt servicing burden by around $250 billion...

Only private individuals worry about "billions" anymore (even hundreds of them). For the US government, the conversation doesn't even begin until you get to trillions.
Most people do not even understand what a billion dollars is. I don't think anyone understands or realizes what a trillion dollars is.
SFCityBear
Cal88
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It's a curse that the word trillion is so commonly and casually used. "2 trillion" sounds a lot more benign that "2,000 billion", so politicians are able to spend more and run gigantic deficits with a bit less of a public reaction.

Trillion doesn't have a common equivalent in French, so in France the national debt of nearly $3 trillion sounds a lot scarier presented as 3,000 billion euros, although the debt situation in France is a bit better than in the US, with the debt to GDP ratio about 20% lower than the US'.
Unit2Sucks
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I'm going to go out on a very short limb and assume no one has posted about Cypress Confidential. A new scandal (if you can call something that everyone knows about a scandal) showing how Russia used Cypress to deploy it's dirty money to pay prominent shills the world over. Here's an article. I expect we will hear more as the particulars become known.



And more news on how the liberators are being treated in Eastern Ukraine. You may recall that the shills are paid by dirty Kremlin money to convince you that Eastern Ukraine wants to be Russia.



And it looks like Ukraine is moving more and more forces across the Dnipro to bolster their beachhead in Krynky. Vlad is going to have to send more money through Cyprus to increase the noise.


Big C
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Cal88 said:

It's a curse that the word trillion is so commonly and casually used. "2 trillion" sounds a lot more benign that "2,000 billion", so politicians are able to spend more and run gigantic deficits with a bit less of a public reaction.

Trillion doesn't have a common equivalent in French, so in France the national debt of nearly $3 trillion sounds a lot scarier presented as 3,000 billion euros, although the debt situation in France is a bit better than in the US, with the debt to GDP ratio about 20% lower than the US'.

It just blows my mind that the number "a trillion" isn't the same number in all countries... but it's true! This is one of the many things I plan on fixing when I finish creating Big C's New World Order.
Cal88
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The Indians use 100,000 or lakh as their base unit when it comes to financial transactions, which is a pretty practical scale considering a Rupee lakh is about $1,000. A trillion in India is 10 million lakhs, which sounds gigantic enough.
Biden Sucks 2
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Unit2Sucks said:

I'm going to go out on a very short limb and assume no one has posted about Cypress Confidential. A new scandal (if you can call something that everyone knows about a scandal) showing how Russia used Cypress to deploy it's dirty money to pay prominent shills the world over. Here's an article. I expect we will hear more as the particulars become known.



And more news on how the liberators are being treated in Eastern Ukraine. You may recall that the shills are paid by dirty Kremlin money to convince you that Eastern Ukraine wants to be Russia.



And it looks like Ukraine is moving more and more forces across the Dnipro to bolster their beachhead in Krynky. Vlad is going to have to send more money through Cyprus to increase the noise.
LOL at proxy war shill Unit2Sucks being so starved for pro-proxy war content that he's been reduced to posting stuff from German propaganda tabloids.
Cal88
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Nah he's very consistent, he has been stuck on the same 4 or 5 twitter low-grade highly partisan channels, these two above, "ChrisO", and the one from the politbureau thug who started the Ukrainian kill list.

As to the latest content:
-The US spent $5 billion buying up influence in Ukraine before 2014, per Ukraine overlord Tory Nuland herself. US spending on lobbying in Ukraine dwarfs Russian spending on lobbying by orders of magnitude.

-Russia bans the import, sale or production of any product or crop containing GMOs. The US has some dodgy standards for food security, as regulatory capture by big agro has been part and parcel in that industry, as in many others.

Incidentally big agro is also one of the key players in shaping US policy of neoliberal "shock therapy" towards Ukraine, with Balckrock, Monsanto, ADM and co salivating over some of the most productive and cheapest arable land in the world:



"The war in Ukraine has been at the center stage of foreign policy and media reports since February 2022. Little attention, however, has been given to a major issue, which is at the core of the conflict who controls the agricultural land in the country known as the "breadbasket of Europe?" This report addresses this gap identifying the interests controlling Ukraine's agricultural land and presenting an analysis of the dynamics at play around land tenure in the country. This includes the highly controversial land reform that took place in 2021 as part of the structural adjustment program initiated under the auspices of Western financial institutions, after the installation of a pro-European Union (EU) government following the Maidan Revolution in 2014. With 33 million hectares of arable land, Ukraine has large swaths of the most fertile farmland in the world.

Misguided privatization and corrupt governance since the early 1990s have concentrated land in the hands of a new oligarchic class. Around 4.3 million hectares are under large-scale agriculture, with the bulk, three million hectares, in the hands of just a dozen large agribusiness firms.2 In addition, according to the government, about five million hectares the size of two Crimea have been "stolen" by private interests from the state of Ukraine.

The total amount of land controlled by oligarchs, corrupt individuals, and large agribusinesses is thus over nine million hectares, exceeding 28 percent of the country's arable land. The rest is used by over eight million Ukrainian farmers.

The largest landholders are a mix of oligarchs and a variety of foreign interests mostly European and North American, including a US-based private equity fund and the sovereign fund of Saudi Arabia. All but one of the ten largest landholding firms are registered overseas, mainly in tax havens such as Cyprus or Luxembourg. Even when run and still largely controlled by an oligarch founder, a number of firms have gone public with Western banks and investment funds now controlling a significant amount of their shares. The report identifies many prominent investors, including Vanguard Group, Kopernik Global Investors, BNP Asset Management Holding, Goldman Sachs-owned NN Investment Partners Holdings, and Norges Bank Investment Management, which manages Norway's sovereign wealth fund. A number of large US pension funds, foundations, and university endowments are also invested in Ukrainian land through NCH Capital a US-based private equity fund, which is the fifth largest landholder in the country.

The report details how Western aid has been conditioned to a drastic structural adjustment program, which includes austerity measures, cuts in social safety nets, and the privatization of key sectors of the economy. A central condition has been the creation of a land market, put into law in 2020 under President Zelenskyy, despite opposition from a majority of Ukrainians fearing that it will exacerbate corruption in the agricultural sector and reinforce its control by powerful interests.

The findings of the report validate this concern, showing that the creation of a land market will likely further increase the amount of agricultural land in the hands of oligarchs and large agribusiness firms. The latter have already started expanding their access to land.

At a time of tremendous suffering and displacement, wherein countless lives have been lost and massive financial resources spent for the control of Ukraine, this report raises major concerns about the future of land and food production in the country, which is likely to become more consolidated and controlled by oligarchs and foreign interests. "

https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/sites/oaklandinstitute.org/files/takeover-ukraine-agricultural-land.pdf
Cal88
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DC Revolving door, Ukraine gravy train chapter:

Biden Sucks 2
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Unit2Sucks said:

I'm going to go out on a very short limb...(tripe deleted)
If you ask me if there will come a time where I will cease enjoying ****ting on all the U.S. proxy war supporters in this thread, ask yourself when Cal football will make a national playoff game and you'll have your answer.


Zippergate
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more "winning"

MinotStateBeav
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Janet Yellen with some North Korean level propaganda.
AunBear89
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The smug little kremlin bots are out in force. Remember: their sources are pure golden truth, and anything that refutes, disproves, or otherwise contradicts them, is propaganda.

And be sure to throw in a few insults for good measure. Sock puppets gonna sock puppet.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
oski003
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AunBear89 said:

The smug little kremlin bots are out in force. Remember: their sources are pure golden truth, and anything that refutes, disproves, or otherwise contradicts them, is propaganda.

And be sure to through in a few insults for good measure. Sock puppets gonna sock puppet.


The smug little warhawk bots are out in force. Remember: their sources are pure golden truth, and anything that refutes, disproves, or otherwise contradicts them, is propaganda.

And be sure to through in a few insults for good measure. Angry warhawk bears gonna angry warhawk.
Unit2Sucks
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AunBear89 said:

The smug little kremlin bots are out in force. Remember: their sources are pure golden truth, and anything that refutes, disproves, or otherwise contradicts them, is propaganda.

And be sure to throw in a few insults for good measure. Sock puppets gonna sock puppet.
It's been this way since before the war. Putin's rubles are effective.


Cal88
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Quote:

The smug little kremlin bots are out in force. Remember: their sources are pure golden truth, and anything that refutes, disproves, or otherwise contradicts them, is propaganda.

And be sure to throw in a few insults for good measure. Sock puppets gonna sock puppet.


The sources lately, in case you haven't noticed, have been Time, CNN, the Economist etc.

Surprised to find this story this morning on my Microsoft feed:

Success for Putin: '20 Ukrainian Artillery Units Neutralized' (msn.com)

The Ukrainian losses in artillery duels have been made worse by their diminishing ammunition supply and by the aging of their gun barrels, which reduces their accuracy.

Those types of stories never appeared before, it's as if the MSM is dialing down the expectations they have spent nearly 2 years building up.

The real picture is very tragic, that of a middle-aged army being thrown into the fray, here we have Ukrainian troops being entertained (new recruits judging by the hair length) looking pretty grim - and very old. The recent Time Magazine article stated that the average age of Ukrainian soldiers was 43, but in this sample it looks closer to 50:

Zippergate
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Yes, but it's not our army. We're "winning."
Biden Sucks 2
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bearister
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Cal88 said:






Hey, but they were more receptive to the next act.

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