BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

WalterSobchak said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

You're so funny when you think you're acting tough.

---

Yes, protecting my family is acting tough. You're a clown who offers nothing to a thread other than personal attacks. Welcome to the block.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

You're so funny when you think you're acting tough.

---

Yes, protecting my family is acting tough. You're a clown who offers nothing to a thread other than personal attacks. Welcome to the block.

---

No genius, insinuating you'd commit violence against someone you've never met for doing something that's perfectly legal is acting tough. And internalizing someone else's "ordeal" into some vicarious masturbatory violence fantasy of "protecting your family" is hilariously pathetic.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

BearGoggles said:

---

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

---

What's your evidence for this? As far as I know, all they did was report on the existence of the ElonJet account.

And again, the problem is that Musk specifically said he would allow that account to remain and then went back on his word without warning.

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

---

What's your evidence for this? As far as I know, all they did was report on the existence of the ElonJet account.

And again, the problem is that Musk specifically said he would allow that account to remain and then went back on his word without warning.

---

Here's the evidence:

"In an email to Reuters overnight, Twitter's head of trust and safety, Ella Irwin, said the team manually reviewed "any and all accounts" that violated the new privacy policy by posting direct links to the ElonJet account.

"I understand that the focus seems to be mainly on journalist accounts, but we applied the policy equally to journalists and non-journalist accounts today," Irwin said in the email."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/17/musk-says-he-will-restore-recently-suspended-journalists-twitter-accounts.html

More here:

• In response to a tweet about the suspensions, Musk indicated that the accounts violated Twitter's doxxing policy, which he revealed Wednesday after suspending an account that actively tracked his private jet.
• Several of the suspended journalists' accounts had allegedly tweeted links to the jet tracker. "Same doxxing rules apply to 'journalists' as to everyone else," Musk tweeted.
• "Accounts engaged in doxxing receive a temporary 7 day suspension," he said.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/16/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-journalists-suspended

You and Unit2 are making two different arguments. You're suggesting the left turned on Musk because he is a hypocrite/not really in favor of free speech - which I think is disproved by the fact that the left turned on him prior to acquiring twitter.

Unit2 actually admits that the left turned on Musk due to his personal politics (Musk's support for people who Unit2 and other far lefties regard as unacceptable).

Musk never said he would abandon all content moderation. The difference with him is there is MUCH GREATER transparency and accountability when moderation occurs. And the policies don't always seem to affect only one tribe. Not claiming he's perfect, but Musk's approach is far more consistent with traditional first amendment principle which is what the left really objects to.

BearGoggles said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

---

What's your evidence for this? As far as I know, all they did was report on the existence of the ElonJet account.

And again, the problem is that Musk specifically said he would allow that account to remain and then went back on his word without warning.

---

Here's the evidence:

"In an email to Reuters overnight, Twitter's head of trust and safety, Ella Irwin, said the team manually reviewed "any and all accounts" that violated the new privacy policy by posting direct links to the ElonJet account.

"I understand that the focus seems to be mainly on journalist accounts, but we applied the policy equally to journalists and non-journalist accounts today," Irwin said in the email."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/17/musk-says-he-will-restore-recently-suspended-journalists-twitter-accounts.html

More here:

• In response to a tweet about the suspensions, Musk indicated that the accounts violated Twitter's doxxing policy, which he revealed Wednesday after suspending an account that actively tracked his private jet.
• Several of the suspended journalists' accounts had allegedly tweeted links to the jet tracker. "Same doxxing rules apply to 'journalists' as to everyone else," Musk tweeted.
• "Accounts engaged in doxxing receive a temporary 7 day suspension," he said.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/16/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-journalists-suspended

You and Unit2 are making two different arguments. You're suggesting the left turned on Musk because he is a hypocrite/not really in favor of free speech - which I think is disproved by the fact that the left turned on him prior to acquiring twitter.

Unit2 actually admits that the left turned on Musk due to his personal politics (Musk's support for people who Unit2 and other far lefties regard as unacceptable).

Musk never said he would abandon all content moderation. The difference with him is there is MUCH GREATER transparency and accountability when moderation occurs. And the policies don't always seem to affect only one tribe. Not claiming he's perfect, but Musk's approach is far more consistent with traditional first amendment principle which is what the left really objects to.

---

I don't think it's reasonable to penalize journalists for reporting on a major story, and in the course of reporting that story they happen to link to the offending account.

My argument is that Musk is full of crap, given that he pulled a full reversal on this one thing because it seemed to affect him personally. I can't speak for all of "the left." There are a lot of people in that group.

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

sycasey said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

---

What's your evidence for this? As far as I know, all they did was report on the existence of the ElonJet account.

And again, the problem is that Musk specifically said he would allow that account to remain and then went back on his word without warning.

---

Here's the evidence:

"In an email to Reuters overnight, Twitter's head of trust and safety, Ella Irwin, said the team manually reviewed "any and all accounts" that violated the new privacy policy by posting direct links to the ElonJet account.

"I understand that the focus seems to be mainly on journalist accounts, but we applied the policy equally to journalists and non-journalist accounts today," Irwin said in the email."

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/17/musk-says-he-will-restore-recently-suspended-journalists-twitter-accounts.html

More here:

• In response to a tweet about the suspensions, Musk indicated that the accounts violated Twitter's doxxing policy, which he revealed Wednesday after suspending an account that actively tracked his private jet.
• Several of the suspended journalists' accounts had allegedly tweeted links to the jet tracker. "Same doxxing rules apply to 'journalists' as to everyone else," Musk tweeted.
• "Accounts engaged in doxxing receive a temporary 7 day suspension," he said.

https://www.axios.com/2022/12/16/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-journalists-suspended

You and Unit2 are making two different arguments. You're suggesting the left turned on Musk because he is a hypocrite/not really in favor of free speech - which I think is disproved by the fact that the left turned on him prior to acquiring twitter.

Unit2 actually admits that the left turned on Musk due to his personal politics (Musk's support for people who Unit2 and other far lefties regard as unacceptable).

Musk never said he would abandon all content moderation. The difference with him is there is MUCH GREATER transparency and accountability when moderation occurs. And the policies don't always seem to affect only one tribe. Not claiming he's perfect, but Musk's approach is far more consistent with traditional first amendment principle which is what the left really objects to.

---

I don't think it's reasonable to penalize journalists for reporting on a major story, and in the course of reporting that story they happen to link to the offending account.

My argument is that Musk is full of crap, given that he pulled a full reversal on this one thing because it seemed to affect him personally. I can't speak for all of "the left." There are a lot of people in that group.

---

Holding journos to the same standard as all other people on the platform is the opposite of penalizing journos.

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

---

Are you really accusing me of hiding behind the truth?

To the contrary, your argument is somewhat absurd. The publication of the location of Elno's plane does not present a security risk for him. The airspace in the US is incredibly safe. I'm not sure I can imagine a safer place for Elno than his airborne airplane. Even if you knew that he was traveling on his plane (which you don't), when his plane is on the ground, no one would know where he is because his person isn't being tracked. I've yet to hear a single substantive argument about why knowing where Elno's plane is presents a security risk. So really this is just about his subjective privacy and I guess it sounds like this is one of the numerous reasons he bought Twitter, which is his right to do. But it's still not an objective argument because his security is not impacted one iota.

As for the ridiculous doxxing argument, Elno regularly reports his real-time whereabouts and further his future whereabouts are often publicly known because he makes numerous scheduled public appearances. In the real world, everyone understands that Elno's personal safety is far more at risk due to his publicly announced schedule than it is from any sort of plane nerds tracking his plane's tail number.

Just by way of example, I know that Elno was at SpaceX's launch facility in Texas yesterday. I know it because he tweeted it in real time. A few days before that I know that he was in DC meeting with congressional leaders. Again, because he tweeted it in real time. The day before that he was in Fremont. Guess how I knew?

If you would like me to go on showing how absurd your contention is that this jet account is actually creating any sort of personal security risk for Elno I can. But really what this amounts to is you embarrassing yourself to defend Elno because he is now one of the more prominent conservative fighters in the white wing grievance war and you are doing your tribal thing.

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

---

They'll never be able to escape the fact that this is FAA mandated information/capability that is publicly available and still being "posted" by numerous sources, some private and some governmental.

WalterSobchak said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

---

They'll never be able to escape the fact that this is FAA mandated information/capability that is publicly available and still being "posted" by numerous sources, some private and some governmental.

---

Yup. And as I have said, ultimately it's Elon Musk's right to do what he wants with Twitter content since he now owns the app (just as it was for the previous owners).

But don't try to tell me that he's being more fair or transparent about those decisions. His behavior around this ElonJet thing shows he's just as biased and capricious as anyone.

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

---

Are you really accusing me of hiding behind the truth?

To the contrary, your argument is somewhat absurd. The publication of the location of Elno's plane does not present a security risk for him. The airspace in the US is incredibly safe. I'm not sure I can imagine a safer place for Elno than his airborne airplane. Even if you knew that he was traveling on his plane (which you don't), when his plane is on the ground, no one would know where he is because his person isn't being tracked. I've yet to hear a single substantive argument about why knowing where Elno's plane is presents a security risk. So really this is just about his subjective privacy and I guess it sounds like this is one of the numerous reasons he bought Twitter, which is his right to do. But it's still not an objective argument because his security is not impacted one iota.

As for the ridiculous doxxing argument, Elno regularly reports his real-time whereabouts and further his future whereabouts are often publicly known because he makes numerous scheduled public appearances. In the real world, everyone understands that Elno's personal safety is far more at risk due to his publicly announced schedule than it is from any sort of plane nerds tracking his plane's tail number.

Just by way of example, I know that Elno was at SpaceX's launch facility in Texas yesterday. I know it because he tweeted it in real time. A few days before that I know that he was in DC meeting with congressional leaders. Again, because he tweeted it in real time. The day before that he was in Fremont. Guess how I knew?

If you would like me to go on showing how absurd your contention is that this jet account is actually creating any sort of personal security risk for Elno I can. But really what this amounts to is you embarrassing yourself to defend Elno because he is now one of the more prominent conservative fighters in the white wing grievance war and you are doing your tribal thing.

---

Eventually, the plane lands and, at that point, people know exactly where he is. They know the airport, terminal location (private plane area), etc. I was not suggesting he was at risk while in the air.

And there's a pretty significant difference between a person choosing to announce where they are (e.g., Elon tweeting his location) and having a third party do that.

I have a proposal. Why don't we reveal your identity and place airtags in your pocket, in your cars and bicycles (all of them, not just the one you drive), in your kid's lunch box and back pack, and on your belongings? Then let's broadcast all of that information in real time and twitter. For example, people would know when you're at home and when your not. Would you feel that enhanced your safety or jeopardized it? No rationale person would be ok with that.

Maybe you think Musk has forfeited that right as a public figure. But don't pretend he (and others) don't have legitimate security concerns when locations are broadcast in real time.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

---

Logic fails you.

Your post below (which is consistent with your prior posts that I could find):

"this is FAA mandated information/capability that is publicly available and still being "posted" by numerous sources, some private and some governmental."

The fact that it is publicly available doesn't answer my question - what is the point of posting real time location of a prominent person? I'm not asking how its possible to post the that. I'm not saying it is illegal or tortious.

I'm asking what is the motivation (and really the consequence) of doing so? It is pretty clear the intent is to, at a minimum, harass and the effect is to impose a privacy/security issue. Regardless of legality, I'm saying its wrong and against the TOS of many websites (not just Twitter).

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

---

Are you really accusing me of hiding behind the truth?

To the contrary, your argument is somewhat absurd. The publication of the location of Elno's plane does not present a security risk for him. The airspace in the US is incredibly safe. I'm not sure I can imagine a safer place for Elno than his airborne airplane. Even if you knew that he was traveling on his plane (which you don't), when his plane is on the ground, no one would know where he is because his person isn't being tracked. I've yet to hear a single substantive argument about why knowing where Elno's plane is presents a security risk. So really this is just about his subjective privacy and I guess it sounds like this is one of the numerous reasons he bought Twitter, which is his right to do. But it's still not an objective argument because his security is not impacted one iota.

As for the ridiculous doxxing argument, Elno regularly reports his real-time whereabouts and further his future whereabouts are often publicly known because he makes numerous scheduled public appearances. In the real world, everyone understands that Elno's personal safety is far more at risk due to his publicly announced schedule than it is from any sort of plane nerds tracking his plane's tail number.

Just by way of example, I know that Elno was at SpaceX's launch facility in Texas yesterday. I know it because he tweeted it in real time. A few days before that I know that he was in DC meeting with congressional leaders. Again, because he tweeted it in real time. The day before that he was in Fremont. Guess how I knew?

If you would like me to go on showing how absurd your contention is that this jet account is actually creating any sort of personal security risk for Elno I can. But really what this amounts to is you embarrassing yourself to defend Elno because he is now one of the more prominent conservative fighters in the white wing grievance war and you are doing your tribal thing.

---

Eventually, the plane lands and, at that point, people know exactly where he is. They know the airport, terminal location (private plane area), etc. I was not suggesting he was at risk while in the air.

And there's a pretty significant difference between a person choosing to announce where they are (e.g., Elon tweeting his location) and having a third party do that.

I have a proposal. Why don't we reveal your identity and place airtags in your pocket, in your cars and bicycles (all of them, not just the one you drive), in your kid's lunch box and back pack, and on your belongings? Then let's broadcast all of that information in real time and twitter. For example, people would know when you're at home and when your not. Would you feel that enhanced your safety or jeopardized it? No rationale person would be ok with that.

Maybe you think Musk has forfeited that right as a public figure. But don't pretend he (and others) don't have legitimate security concerns when locations are broadcast in real time.

---

This is just another example in your line of weak and disingenuous false equivalences.

Elno has chosen to own a private plane which, like all planes, is subject to the ADS-B system (more on that below). As such, the location of his plane is publicly available. That's a choice he made. It's not a choice I've made. It's probably worth mentioning why ADS-B exists: it was rolled out as part of next-gen national airspace strategy so that air traffic control and others can safely track airplanes. It's that lovely infrastructure that conservatives pretend to care about and it's a public service which Americans rely on to keep people safe. If anyone is concerned about broadcasting that information they are free to fly commercial - which is what I do - or they can obfuscate their private plane location by owning multiple planes or by chartering.

I'm not surprised that you would defend your boy Elno given that he is a celebrity in your tribe, but I'm surprised you would do so with such a weak group of arguments.

For anyone not paying attention, this version of the conversation started by someone pretending that this information was endangering Elno's family (which it obviously isn't, for all the reasons stated above by myself and others). Someone then responded that this wasn't impacting his safety and that as a public figure his location is often known. You then responded with another of your pathetic false equivalences to Joe Biden (whose location is also quite frequently known, not that it's relevant given that he has secret service protection). Then you wrapped that pathetic false equivalence in a motte and bailey act to pretend that knowing the location of the plane means you know the location of Elno and his family "in real time" which is only partially true during the time Elno's plane is in the air and not something that you would really know in advance. I guess you feel like someone will race against his airplane to beat him to a private air terminal in time to intercept him, and that they were waiting for a 20-year old kid to post the information on twitter rather than getting the information on their own. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you don't wrap facts in pathetic and disingenuous false equivalences, doesn't it?

So let's play a little game. Tell me where Elno and his family were 24 hours ago. How about 48 hours ago. I'll bet you can't do it with any degree of accuracy and you likely won't even bother trying because it will lay bare for everyone how disingenuous your position is/

As for your final pathetic false equivalence, you asked if I would want to broadcast my location information (and that of my family) in real-time after I've made it clear that Elno does just that with his own location. No one looking to find Elno's location would rely on the twitter account (as I established above). Unlike Elno, I don't broadcast my location in real-time or otherwise on the internet (except in the very rare occasion that I make a pre-planned public appearance such as a speaking engagement). Apparently because I value my safety and for no other reason, I don't own a private jet and don't broadcast my information in real-time the way that Elno's jet does. That's what I will tell people who ask me why I don't fly private. I will let you all know how long it takes for them to laugh.

Non-sequitur:

Elon Musk has 10 kids with 4 different women, only one of which was his wife. He married one of his wives twice but didn't have any of the 10 kids with her.

If he wasn't a white billionaire he would be villified by the right and probably appear on an episode of Jerry Springer.

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

---

Logic fails you.

Your post below (which is consistent with your prior posts that I could find):

"this is FAA mandated information/capability that is publicly available and still being "posted" by numerous sources, some private and some governmental."

The fact that it is publicly available doesn't answer my question - what is the point of posting real time location of a prominent person? I'm not asking how its possible to post the that. I'm not saying it is illegal or tortious.

I'm asking what is the motivation (and really the consequence) of doing so? It is pretty clear the intent is to, at a minimum, harass and the effect is to impose a privacy/security issue. Regardless of legality, I'm saying its wrong and against the TOS of many websites (not just Twitter).

---

I assume this was directed at me since you quoted me despite replying to EOB. To be clear, you're asking me to justify the public policy underlying the FAA's ADS-B rules? Why? What does that have to do with the matter and why am I responsible for it? I assume they had some rational basis for their action but I haven't followed that closely. Do you have some specific complaint about that public policy? Why don't you explain why public information that's legal and not tortious isn't free for public dissemination? Is that really a precedent you want to set?

I offered several real-world legitimate uses for flight tracking of public figures upthread. I also gave an (admittedly sarcastic) comparison to telephone books. More savvy individuals nowadays can easily ascertain specific home address information by aggregating online public data sources. Those are far more personal and have a much higher potential for wrongdoing. Still it's legal and not tortious to do so (without more). Here I pointed out that nobody ever called the police regarding the asserted stalking incident in LA. Why would that be? Why aren't you concerned about that and those other more invasive public information sources?

---

Yes - I was intending to reply to you

Thank you for proving my point that you're not following. I did not ask you to justify the public policy underlying ADS-B rules. My complaint isn't with public policy. It doesn't matter that there are legitimate uses or justifications for the public policy/information.

My point, again, is that broadcasting public geolocation information in real time is problematic, even if legal.

You are 100% correct there are ways to aggregate public information and find a persons identity, residence, place of employment, etc. Yet doing so and publishing that on most websites (i.e., doxxing) is not permitted and generally considered to be inappropriate.

As an example, THIS VERY WEBSITE has the following terms of use:

"Revealing personal information about others will not be tolerated. Bear Insider has a zero tolerance policy for anyone who posts private or defamatory information on this forum without the consent of the parties involved. This includes, but is not limited to, posters on this forum, athletes/staff/officials of University of California, business owners etc."

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

---

Are you really accusing me of hiding behind the truth?

To the contrary, your argument is somewhat absurd. The publication of the location of Elno's plane does not present a security risk for him. The airspace in the US is incredibly safe. I'm not sure I can imagine a safer place for Elno than his airborne airplane. Even if you knew that he was traveling on his plane (which you don't), when his plane is on the ground, no one would know where he is because his person isn't being tracked. I've yet to hear a single substantive argument about why knowing where Elno's plane is presents a security risk. So really this is just about his subjective privacy and I guess it sounds like this is one of the numerous reasons he bought Twitter, which is his right to do. But it's still not an objective argument because his security is not impacted one iota.

As for the ridiculous doxxing argument, Elno regularly reports his real-time whereabouts and further his future whereabouts are often publicly known because he makes numerous scheduled public appearances. In the real world, everyone understands that Elno's personal safety is far more at risk due to his publicly announced schedule than it is from any sort of plane nerds tracking his plane's tail number.

Just by way of example, I know that Elno was at SpaceX's launch facility in Texas yesterday. I know it because he tweeted it in real time. A few days before that I know that he was in DC meeting with congressional leaders. Again, because he tweeted it in real time. The day before that he was in Fremont. Guess how I knew?

If you would like me to go on showing how absurd your contention is that this jet account is actually creating any sort of personal security risk for Elno I can. But really what this amounts to is you embarrassing yourself to defend Elno because he is now one of the more prominent conservative fighters in the white wing grievance war and you are doing your tribal thing.

---

Eventually, the plane lands and, at that point, people know exactly where he is. They know the airport, terminal location (private plane area), etc. I was not suggesting he was at risk while in the air.

And there's a pretty significant difference between a person choosing to announce where they are (e.g., Elon tweeting his location) and having a third party do that.

I have a proposal. Why don't we reveal your identity and place airtags in your pocket, in your cars and bicycles (all of them, not just the one you drive), in your kid's lunch box and back pack, and on your belongings? Then let's broadcast all of that information in real time and twitter. For example, people would know when you're at home and when your not. Would you feel that enhanced your safety or jeopardized it? No rationale person would be ok with that.

Maybe you think Musk has forfeited that right as a public figure. But don't pretend he (and others) don't have legitimate security concerns when locations are broadcast in real time.

---

This is just another example in your line of weak and disingenuous false equivalences.

Elno has chosen to own a private plane which, like all planes, is subject to the ADS-B system (more on that below). As such, the location of his plane is publicly available. That's a choice he made. It's not a choice I've made. It's probably worth mentioning why ADS-B exists: it was rolled out as part of next-gen national airspace strategy so that air traffic control and others can safely track airplanes. It's that lovely infrastructure that conservatives pretend to care about and it's a public service which Americans rely on to keep people safe. If anyone is concerned about broadcasting that information they are free to fly commercial - which is what I do - or they can obfuscate their private plane location by owning multiple planes or by chartering.

I'm not surprised that you would defend your boy Elno given that he is a celebrity in your tribe, but I'm surprised you would do so with such a weak group of arguments.

For anyone not paying attention, this version of the conversation started by someone pretending that this information was endangering Elno's family (which it obviously isn't, for all the reasons stated above by myself and others). Someone then responded that this wasn't impacting his safety and that as a public figure his location is often known. You then responded with another of your pathetic false equivalences to Joe Biden (whose location is also quite frequently known, not that it's relevant given that he has secret service protection). Then you wrapped that pathetic false equivalence in a motte and bailey act to pretend that knowing the location of the plane means you know the location of Elno and his family "in real time" which is only partially true during the time Elno's plane is in the air and not something that you would really know in advance. I guess you feel like someone will race against his airplane to beat him to a private air terminal in time to intercept him, and that they were waiting for a 20-year old kid to post the information on twitter rather than getting the information on their own. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you don't wrap facts in pathetic and disingenuous false equivalences, doesn't it?

So let's play a little game. Tell me where Elno and his family were 24 hours ago. How about 48 hours ago. I'll bet you can't do it with any degree of accuracy and you likely won't even bother trying because it will lay bare for everyone how disingenuous your position is/

As for your final pathetic false equivalence, you asked if I would want to broadcast my location information (and that of my family) in real-time after I've made it clear that Elno does just that with his own location. No one looking to find Elno's location would rely on the twitter account (as I established above). Unlike Elno, I don't broadcast my location in real-time or otherwise on the internet (except in the very rare occasion that I make a pre-planned public appearance such as a speaking engagement). Apparently because I value my safety and for no other reason, I don't own a private jet and don't broadcast my information in real-time the way that Elno's jet does. That's what I will tell people who ask me why I don't fly private. I will let you all know how long it takes for them to laugh.

---

That's an awful lot of word salad when you should have just said "I don't think Musk deserves the same privacy I would claim for myself. Because he's rich and has a plane - and most importantly political views I disagree with - he deserves to be harassed and have his safety threatened"

Elon doesn't tweet his location 24/7. And, again, you ignore the difference between him choosing to disclose his location vs a third party doing so.

And your example of having people race to the airport is actually on point. We have seen countless examples of the left (your tribe) learning in real time that a conservative was in a public place and racing there to harass or threaten them. Maxine Waters openly encouraged it.

https://dc.eater.com/2022/7/8/23200165/crashed-brett-kavanaugh-dc-dinner-mortons

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-defiant-after-demonstrator-tried-disrupting-his-dinner-i-enjoyed-my-meal

movielover said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

Non-sequitur:

Elon Musk has 10 kids with 4 different women, only one of which was his wife. He married one of his wives twice but didn't have any of the 10 kids with her.

If he wasn't a white billionaire he would be villified by the right and probably appear on an episode of Jerry Springer.

---

Ah, no. Illegitimacy is now commonplace. He's just following Clint Eastwood.

---

Donald Trump has 5 kids with 3 different women.

Family values.

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Unit2Sucks said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

movielover said:

---

You mean the account that doxxed his families real-time location.

---

The account he specifically said he wouldn't suspend and then did.

---

Who cares? Dude is going after his family. Banning him was the least I'd do.

---

Flight histories are a matter of public record. It might take me a few minutes of research to get the serial number of Musk's jet, but after that, it's just a few clicks to see his flight history and his jet's current location. The same goes for anyone else's jet or for any other plane. If you want to stop people following where Elon Musk's jet is, change the laws, though getting both US and international laws changed will be difficult.

I doubt it's seriously endangering Elon Musk's safety any more than it's already endangered by being a public figure. His travels are well covered by the media and even Musk will frequently mention it in his social media.

---

Why is it that we don't have real time flight data on President Biden/Air Force One and other politicians? Why don't they disclose timing and route of the presidential motorcade and travel? If its a safety risk for the president, it is a safety risk for any other public figure.

For any public figure, it is potentially dangerous for there to be widely disseminated real time information about their location. I have no problem with Twitter deciding that is not appropriate IN REAL TIME.

And Musk's family's safety was already threatened in a driving incident.

---

We don't have real time location information about Elno except when he tells us where he is, which he frequently does on Twitter.

By the way, we do frequently know exactly where Biden is and where and when his airplane will be landing. He attends numerous pre-planned events and has a security team, but you already knew all that.

You probably also already knew that the location of planes is due to the ADS-B system and would be true whether or not Elno allows people to post that information on Twitter. Further, you probably already know that tracking a tail number is quite different from tracking an individual's location. Knowing where Elno's plane is doesn't tell us where he is. Anyone could be using that plane at any given time and even if he happens to be on the plane in the air, as soon as he lands the information is out of date.

This is cute performative outrage but it's not real. Blocking that kid's Twitter account did not increase his personal safety or prevent a single person from accessing the location of his plane. Nor would leaving the account up have provided anyone with his real time location information. I understand why he felt it was an invasion of his privacy because that's personal, but we don't have to pretend that this twitter account increased his risk profile one iota.

---

Are you really going to hide behind the bolded statement? Who do you think travels on Musk's plane? Musk, his family, his friends/associates, etc. They are all targets.

This is a form of (or analogous to) doxxing. Doxxing is often done with publicly available information - just like tracking Elon's plan. Even when based solely on public information, people still consider doxxing to be wrong and is against the terms of service at Twitter and most other prominent social media sites.

And that is the point - the kids account and the other journalists were suspended due to doxxing (the journalists for prior doxxing tweets that I believe were deleted).

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME? It might be newsworthy where he travels, but there is no public interest in having real time information. Given that liberal activists have explicitly adopted a policy of harassment (see link re Maxine Waters), Musk's position is totally understandable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rep-waters-draws-criticism-saying-trump-officials-should-be-harassed-n886311

The fact that the information is available - if you really look for it - doesn't change the fact that publishing the information in real time drastically increases the risk to the person. Musk's policy didn't just apply to himself - it applies equally to any person including dems.

---

Are you really accusing me of hiding behind the truth?

To the contrary, your argument is somewhat absurd. The publication of the location of Elno's plane does not present a security risk for him. The airspace in the US is incredibly safe. I'm not sure I can imagine a safer place for Elno than his airborne airplane. Even if you knew that he was traveling on his plane (which you don't), when his plane is on the ground, no one would know where he is because his person isn't being tracked. I've yet to hear a single substantive argument about why knowing where Elno's plane is presents a security risk. So really this is just about his subjective privacy and I guess it sounds like this is one of the numerous reasons he bought Twitter, which is his right to do. But it's still not an objective argument because his security is not impacted one iota.

As for the ridiculous doxxing argument, Elno regularly reports his real-time whereabouts and further his future whereabouts are often publicly known because he makes numerous scheduled public appearances. In the real world, everyone understands that Elno's personal safety is far more at risk due to his publicly announced schedule than it is from any sort of plane nerds tracking his plane's tail number.

Just by way of example, I know that Elno was at SpaceX's launch facility in Texas yesterday. I know it because he tweeted it in real time. A few days before that I know that he was in DC meeting with congressional leaders. Again, because he tweeted it in real time. The day before that he was in Fremont. Guess how I knew?

If you would like me to go on showing how absurd your contention is that this jet account is actually creating any sort of personal security risk for Elno I can. But really what this amounts to is you embarrassing yourself to defend Elno because he is now one of the more prominent conservative fighters in the white wing grievance war and you are doing your tribal thing.

---

Eventually, the plane lands and, at that point, people know exactly where he is. They know the airport, terminal location (private plane area), etc. I was not suggesting he was at risk while in the air.

And there's a pretty significant difference between a person choosing to announce where they are (e.g., Elon tweeting his location) and having a third party do that.

I have a proposal. Why don't we reveal your identity and place airtags in your pocket, in your cars and bicycles (all of them, not just the one you drive), in your kid's lunch box and back pack, and on your belongings? Then let's broadcast all of that information in real time and twitter. For example, people would know when you're at home and when your not. Would you feel that enhanced your safety or jeopardized it? No rationale person would be ok with that.

Maybe you think Musk has forfeited that right as a public figure. But don't pretend he (and others) don't have legitimate security concerns when locations are broadcast in real time.

---

This is just another example in your line of weak and disingenuous false equivalences.

Elno has chosen to own a private plane which, like all planes, is subject to the ADS-B system (more on that below). As such, the location of his plane is publicly available. That's a choice he made. It's not a choice I've made. It's probably worth mentioning why ADS-B exists: it was rolled out as part of next-gen national airspace strategy so that air traffic control and others can safely track airplanes. It's that lovely infrastructure that conservatives pretend to care about and it's a public service which Americans rely on to keep people safe. If anyone is concerned about broadcasting that information they are free to fly commercial - which is what I do - or they can obfuscate their private plane location by owning multiple planes or by chartering.

I'm not surprised that you would defend your boy Elno given that he is a celebrity in your tribe, but I'm surprised you would do so with such a weak group of arguments.

For anyone not paying attention, this version of the conversation started by someone pretending that this information was endangering Elno's family (which it obviously isn't, for all the reasons stated above by myself and others). Someone then responded that this wasn't impacting his safety and that as a public figure his location is often known. You then responded with another of your pathetic false equivalences to Joe Biden (whose location is also quite frequently known, not that it's relevant given that he has secret service protection). Then you wrapped that pathetic false equivalence in a motte and bailey act to pretend that knowing the location of the plane means you know the location of Elno and his family "in real time" which is only partially true during the time Elno's plane is in the air and not something that you would really know in advance. I guess you feel like someone will race against his airplane to beat him to a private air terminal in time to intercept him, and that they were waiting for a 20-year old kid to post the information on twitter rather than getting the information on their own. Sounds pretty ridiculous when you don't wrap facts in pathetic and disingenuous false equivalences, doesn't it?

So let's play a little game. Tell me where Elno and his family were 24 hours ago. How about 48 hours ago. I'll bet you can't do it with any degree of accuracy and you likely won't even bother trying because it will lay bare for everyone how disingenuous your position is/

As for your final pathetic false equivalence, you asked if I would want to broadcast my location information (and that of my family) in real-time after I've made it clear that Elno does just that with his own location. No one looking to find Elno's location would rely on the twitter account (as I established above). Unlike Elno, I don't broadcast my location in real-time or otherwise on the internet (except in the very rare occasion that I make a pre-planned public appearance such as a speaking engagement). Apparently because I value my safety and for no other reason, I don't own a private jet and don't broadcast my information in real-time the way that Elno's jet does. That's what I will tell people who ask me why I don't fly private. I will let you all know how long it takes for them to laugh.

---

That's an awful lot of word salad when you should have just said "I don't think Musk deserves the same privacy I would claim for myself. Because he's rich and has a plane - and most importantly political views I disagree with - he deserves to be harassed and have his safety threatened"

Elon doesn't tweet his location 24/7. And, again, you ignore the difference between him choosing to disclose his location vs a third party doing so.

And your example of having people race to the airport is actually on point. We have seen countless examples of the left (your tribe) learning in real time that a conservative was in a public place and racing there to harass or threaten them. Maxine Waters openly encouraged it.

https://dc.eater.com/2022/7/8/23200165/crashed-brett-kavanaugh-dc-dinner-mortons

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-defiant-after-demonstrator-tried-disrupting-his-dinner-i-enjoyed-my-meal

---

I see you've moved on from just pathetic false equivalence to now including disingenuous bad faith strawmanning.

It's remarkable how long you've chosen to stick with an obvious loser of an argument. Where to start?

First - the "countless" examples are not even remotely exclusive to the left. Protests are quite common on both sides and we've heard numerous stories of Nancy Pelosi and other targets of RWNJs being protested at private events. And, for anyone not paying attention. a RWNJ tried to kill Nancy and her husband Paul recently at their private home.

Second - let's pretend for a second that this is about safety. If Elno were concerned with his safety, why would he constantly post his real-time location information on Twitter? If someone wanted to race to the airport, as you've suggested, to accost Elno's plane, why would they need to rely on that kid's twitter account rather than going to the source? Do you really think the extra 5 minutes of work is something that someone so committed to actually attack Elno would do?

Third - I'm not ignoring the difference between him choosing to share his location vs a third party. By choosing to own a plane under the current FAA regime, he has chosen to disclose his plane's location information in flight. That's a choice he made. If he were actually legitimately concerned about the safety impact of his plane's whereabouts being known, it's something he could address. Blocking some kid's account for re-broadcasting that information is hardly increasing his safety. And, obviously, if he genuinely feared for his safety as a result of people knowing where he is, he wouldn't constantly broadcast his own location. You've acknowledged that there is a difference between him choosing to do so and a third party doing it and I agree. This is about his subjective feelings, not any objective measure or actual safety. He felt like his privacy was violated so he shut it down when he bought twitter. It won't make him any safer because if someone wants to attack him they can just wait outside his office for him to leave after he posts his real-time location on Twitter, which he does several times per week. Unlike with his plane which he presumably deboards immediately upon landing, the location information he regularly posts in real-time on Twitter would actually be actionable for someone looking to find him.

All in all, you've laid out a preposterous position, but I don't think you actually hold this position. You're a smart guy but this is a dumb argument and I think you realize it by this point because you are resorting to more and more desperate attempts to justify it.

As is often the case, you've staked out a tribal position and you are defending it as if it were real. But it's entirely disingenuous and doesn't hang together under even the slightest of scrutiny.

BearGoggles said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

WalterSobchak said:

---

BearGoggles said:

---

What is the point of posting the location of a prominent person (or their plane/car) in REAL TIME?

---

I covered this a month and a half ago in this very thread when this was happening.

---

I did as well, but BG continues to repost his same complaints over and over.

---

Logic fails you.

Your post below (which is consistent with your prior posts that I could find):

"this is FAA mandated information/capability that is publicly available and still being "posted" by numerous sources, some private and some governmental."

The fact that it is publicly available doesn't answer my question - what is the point of posting real time location of a prominent person? I'm not asking how its possible to post the that. I'm not saying it is illegal or tortious.

I'm asking what is the motivation (and really the consequence) of doing so? It is pretty clear the intent is to, at a minimum, harass and the effect is to impose a privacy/security issue. Regardless of legality, I'm saying its wrong and against the TOS of many websites (not just Twitter).

---

I assume this was directed at me since you quoted me despite replying to EOB. To be clear, you're asking me to justify the public policy underlying the FAA's ADS-B rules? Why? What does that have to do with the matter and why am I responsible for it? I assume they had some rational basis for their action but I haven't followed that closely. Do you have some specific complaint about that public policy? Why don't you explain why public information that's legal and not tortious isn't free for public dissemination? Is that really a precedent you want to set?

I offered several real-world legitimate uses for flight tracking of public figures upthread. I also gave an (admittedly sarcastic) comparison to telephone books. More savvy individuals nowadays can easily ascertain specific home address information by aggregating online public data sources. Those are far more personal and have a much higher potential for wrongdoing. Still it's legal and not tortious to do so (without more). Here I pointed out that nobody ever called the police regarding the asserted stalking incident in LA. Why would that be? Why aren't you concerned about that and those other more invasive public information sources?

---

Yes - I was intending to reply to you

Thank you for proving my point that you're not following. I did not ask you to justify the public policy underlying ADS-B rules. My complaint isn't with public policy. It doesn't matter that there are legitimate uses or justifications for the public policy/information.

My point, again, is that broadcasting public geolocation information in real time is problematic, even if legal.

You are 100% correct there are ways to aggregate public information and find a persons identity, residence, place of employment, etc. Yet doing so and publishing that on most websites (i.e., doxxing) is not permitted and generally considered to be inappropriate.

As an example, THIS VERY WEBSITE has the following terms of use:

"Revealing personal information about others will not be tolerated. Bear Insider has a zero tolerance policy for anyone who posts private or defamatory information on this forum without the consent of the parties involved. This includes, but is not limited to, posters on this forum, athletes/staff/officials of University of California, business owners etc."

---

So what you're saying is that when you said, in bold, "what is the point of posting real time location of a prominent person?" followed by "I'm asking what is the motivation (and really the consequence) of doing so?" your intent was to limit the scope of those musings exclusively to rights and abilities under website TOS? And I'm "not following"? Yeah, I have a hard time following unintelligible and intentionally misleading questions. Maybe if you actually wanted to limit the scope to the TOS issue you should've said: "Regardless of legality Musk has the right under the Twitter TOS to suspend the accounts." But you're being disingenuous because that's not and never has been in dispute. sycasey has already acknowledged it at least once. I've never disputed it.

"And, for anyone not paying attention. a RWNJ tried to kill Nancy and her husband Paul recently at their private home."

Actually, he was a Left Wing, BLM, Stoner Nudist living in a van.