Soccer Topics: No goalies in the USA

125,219 Views | 2517 Replies | Last: 3 hrs ago by OneKeg
Big C
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sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.

My situation right now is, goals and assists are obvious, but it's harder for me to notice when other players are good, short of going by the overall results. An exception would be a player obviously winning a 1 v 1.
Big C
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Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Back atcha! And you're on "ignore" now... and so are your sock puppets!
concordtom
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Big C said:

Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Back atcha! And you're on "ignore" now... and so are your sock puppets!


Lol !!

I don't know what this is about, but coming from
You? Hilarious!!
concordtom
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bearister said:


20 different clubs have at least two players still competing in the World Cup. (Grant Thomas/Yahoo Sports)

Impressive graphic!!!
Anarchistbear
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Big C said:

Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Back atcha! And you're on "ignore" now... and so are your sock puppets!


Bingo
Big C
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concordtom said:

Big C said:

Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Back atcha! And you're on "ignore" now... and so are your sock puppets!


Lol !!

I don't know what this is about, but coming from
You? Hilarious!!

I was trying to take Anarchistbear's humorous post to another level because I always get a little jealous when he's funnier than I am (which is fairly often).

You see, he wrote that he flagged my innocuous post, since I had cited mentions and threats of "flagging" as one of this board's problems.
concordtom
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sluggo said:


8. Nice that Stu Holden now has a cultural spotter. No chance he can recognize Javier Bardem. In a previous game they lingered on Penelope Cruz and the announcers awkwardly said nothing.

Definitely someone feeding them info!
concordtom
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Big C said:


France starting to look like US (against Belgium): too many different things going wrong

Allez, les Bleus, allez!

Adieu, Les Blues, Adieu!
concordtom
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sluggo said:

As Zlatan said, there are levels. Soccer is a game of levels more than any other game, I think. Because it is so complicated. I don't mean to compare it to poetry or something, but it requires you to feel things you can't see, as things are constantly happening in all directions. Every single Spanish player feels the game.

The only other team at all like Spain is Portugal. And they were tied late and hit the crossbar while tied. All while carrying the baggage of Ronaldo. Watch out for them in the 28 Euro. Then the 30 World Cup will be in Spain, Portugal and Morocco. Can't wait. Hoping to see England easily dispatched in the finals.


It will be addition via subtraction when Ronaldo finally gives it up. Portugal should have had a Joe Biden 2024 style intervention a few months (or years) ago.

I'll be in Spain the whole month of July 2030, at our family home on the Med Coast. Yippee!! Can't wait.
Big C
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concordtom said:

Big C said:


France starting to look like US (against Belgium): too many different things going wrong

Allez, les Bleus, allez!

Adieu, Les Blues, Adieu!

Ta gueule!
concordtom
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Cal88 said:

sluggo said:

Cal88 said:

Hey you were right, France midfield was not up to par, Digne, Olise as well.

I get lucky every once in a while. Cherki was the obvious play, Deschamps is bad at his job, though I feel sorry as he lost his mother during the tournament.


Agreed about Deschamps, he rarely gets more than the sum of the parts on his teams. I wonder who's next, Zidane is reportedly in the lead, I am not sure if that's the right call.

Spain will be a heavy favorite in the final.



Which is why an English victory in (just south of) New England will be so damned iconic!!

Did you know that the original patent which (my great grandfather) William Brewster helped obtain via the London Merchant Adventurers and the Virginia Company of London, and which was given to Mayflower Captain Christopher Jones, was for them land at the mouth of the Hudson River?

It's Coming Home, indeed!
concordtom
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

Big C said:


France starting to look like US (against Belgium): too many different things going wrong

Allez, les Bleus, allez!

Adieu, Les Blues, Adieu!

Ta gueule!


Je suppose que celle-ci fait partie des huit expressions francaises que tu connais ? Attention, tu en as deja utilise deux.
concordtom
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Anarchistbear said:

On Bastille Day.
oui, que lastima
concordtom
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Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

Tres bien, monsieur.
Muy Bien!
concordtom
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Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Ha!
Bien puesto !!!
concordtom
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sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.


Maybe by then he will be able to play with his right foot, too.
Given all the hype, I'm not all that impressed. I've seen him play maybe six times? Still waiting
concordtom
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Cal88 said:

Digne was struggling and when Saliba came out injured the coordination in the back was off. In addition this French team needed a Viera and a younger Kante' to match up with Spain.


Joking aside, definitely a mystery how they could look so dominant for so many games and then just nothing today
concordtom
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sycasey said:

Well, so much for my "France is the team to beat" takes. Though in fairness, I did also think Spain looked like the next best team so this isn't a shocking result.



I'll own it. I was definitely wrong about this game. Fortunately, my friends in Spain also thought France looked better coming into this game. They sent me a photo of their spread with the Spanish flag hanging under the TV. Good times in La Moraleja!
concordtom
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Big C said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.

My situation right now is, goals and assists are obvious, but it's harder for me to notice when other players are good, short of going by the overall results. An exception would be a player obviously winning a 1 v 1.


Look for duels won,
Passes converted percentage,
Chances created,
Defensive interventions,
Work rate (running much?),
Connectivity - do they come to the ball to offer support in triangles,
Vision for passing lanes,
Silly errors that hurt your eyes (see Matt Freese),

There is a stat on kilometers covered.
But we casuals don't look all that up.

Tricks like back heels and juggles are usually like Drive For Show, Put For Dough.
concordtom
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

Big C said:

Anarchistbear said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?


Flagged

Back atcha! And you're on "ignore" now... and so are your sock puppets!


Lol !!

I don't know what this is about, but coming from
You? Hilarious!!

I was trying to take Anarchistbear's humorous post to another level because I always get a little jealous when he's funnier than I am (which is fairly often).

You see, he wrote that he flagged my innocuous post, since I had cited mentions and threats of "flagging" as one of this board's problems.

Yes, congratulations!!
You won this Funny Face-Off!!!
concordtom
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Next up:

Falklands War
Then the defeat of the Spanish Armada.

Graphics department?
Cal88
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concordtom
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Nice!!!
Big C
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concordtom said:

Big C said:

concordtom said:

Big C said:


France starting to look like US (against Belgium): too many different things going wrong

Allez, les Bleus, allez!

Adieu, Les Blues, Adieu!

Ta gueule!


Je suppose que celle-ci fait partie des huit expressions francaises que tu connais ? Attention, tu en as deja utilise deux.

Tu te trompes (comme d'habitude). C'est la langue grecque ou je ne connais que huit expressions... malaka.
sluggo
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Big C said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.

My situation right now is, goals and assists are obvious, but it's harder for me to notice when other players are good, short of going by the overall results. An exception would be a player obviously winning a 1 v 1.

Don't try to reduce it to individual stats. First, it is a team game. Second, it sucks out the joy. I say this as a professional data scientist.

Try to find little nuggets. Here is one I will give you. It is called the "half turn." Generally, to receive a pass that goes forward you need to face the player who sends it, which puts your front towards your own goal. However, you want to push the ball towards the opposite goal. So the question is how do you (almost) simultaneously receive the ball and starting pushing towards the intended goal? The answer is the half turn. You receive it sort of sideways and turn upfield by straightening out. And there are variations. That may sound easy but there is only one person in the whole 340 million population of the USA who does it properly, Gio Reyna. (McKennie is not bad, but not like a Spaniard.) So it must not be.

My daughter reached a fairly high level in soccer, by my standards, in middle school. She got her first real coach and he spent the whole first week on turning. I was taught by dads, and while I can see a lot, I cannot do much on the field. Maybe in retirement I will learn how to play properly. (I played my first game 50 years ago, so probably not.)

In the first half of the finals watch Rodri turn every time he receives the ball. No one will touch the ball, ever, and he will be in position to lay off the ball easily. Then in the second half watch Pedri, who is even better at the skill, and is actually the best I have ever seen. Messi is and Maradona was spectacular at this skill as well.



sluggo
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It is five or ten little things like being better at the half turn that add up to Spain being virtually unbeatable and France having maybe a 10% chance today despite a whole group of NFL level athletes. (I think Spain has beaten France 9 out of the last 11.) And how I knew exactly what would happen in the game today. It is science but I don't know how to reduce it to science. Maybe someone who is not self-taught could explain better.
concordtom
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Excellent reply! Truly.

But, you know, this honestly happened to me during today's game!

I was thinking about what it takes to master all the little things just as you have described here, just as I was watching Spain turn the French into fries. And I thought, "there are way more important things to devote hours to in life!"

I sank so many years into soccer with my kids - because I'm a sports junkie. I had fun. We had fun.
But I'm really glad we never got THAT deep into it.

Kick the ball.
Run around.
Make friends.
Strive.
Have fun.
sluggo
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concordtom said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.


Maybe by then he will be able to play with his right foot, too.
Given all the hype, I'm not all that impressed. I've seen him play maybe six times? Still waiting

He has two feet, the inside of his left foot and the outside of his left foot. He is better with the outside of his left foot than almost any left-footed player is with his right foot. Messi's right foot is pretty limited, and he is less good with the outside of his foot.

Lamine turned freaking 19 yesterday. And he he has led his team to the Euro (at 17) and as of Sunday the WC in his only two tournaments ever. If you can't see it, I can't help you. He is the descendent of Messi, although in a different body type. He is that good. Whether the publicity is too much too soon we will have to see.
concordtom
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Big C said:

concordtom said:

Big C said:

concordtom said:

Big C said:


France starting to look like US (against Belgium): too many different things going wrong

Allez, les Bleus, allez!

Adieu, Les Blues, Adieu!

Ta gueule!


Je suppose que celle-ci fait partie des huit expressions francaises que tu connais ? Attention, tu en as deja utilise deux.

Tu te trompes (comme d'habitude). C'est la langue grecque ou je ne connais que huit expressions... malaka.


Uh, excuse me.
I worked as an illegal alien doing construction on the island of Rhodes in the summer of 1992, and I know that word.

You have violated the TOS regarding language and are henceforth permanently banned.
sluggo
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concordtom said:

Excellent reply! Truly.

But, you know, this honestly happened to me during today's game!

I was thinking about what it takes to master all the little things just as you have described here, just as I was watching Spain turn the French into fries. And I thought, "there are way more important things to devote hours to in life!"

I sank so many years into soccer with my kids - because I'm a sports junkie. I had fun. We had fun.
But I'm really glad we never got THAT deep into it.

Kick the ball.
Run around.
Make friends.
Strive.
Have fun.

In high school my daughter found she was better at a brain sport than soccer. And more or less quit.

I play every Sunday for joy. As do most people. If you want to be the best in the world at the most played sport, it takes thousands of hours of tedious practice. But it is the same to be the best at anything else. I read that Amadeus was fake and Mozart worked hard, too.

sluggo
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concordtom said:

sluggo said:

As Zlatan said, there are levels. Soccer is a game of levels more than any other game, I think. Because it is so complicated. I don't mean to compare it to poetry or something, but it requires you to feel things you can't see, as things are constantly happening in all directions. Every single Spanish player feels the game.

The only other team at all like Spain is Portugal. And they were tied late and hit the crossbar while tied. All while carrying the baggage of Ronaldo. Watch out for them in the 28 Euro. Then the 30 World Cup will be in Spain, Portugal and Morocco. Can't wait. Hoping to see England easily dispatched in the finals.


It will be addition via subtraction when Ronaldo finally gives it up. Portugal should have had a Joe Biden 2024 style intervention a few months (or years) ago.

I'll be in Spain the whole month of July 2030, at our family home on the Med Coast. Yippee!! Can't wait.

Except, for various reasons, the Biden conversation needed to happen in 2023.

Lucky you. I will try to leverage borderline to non-existent connections. I do have an angle to Spanish citizenship, maybe, would be funny to switch sides to watch soccer rather than to join the national team.
Big C
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sluggo said:

Big C said:

sluggo said:

Big C said:


I don't trust my observations to be accurate, but what I saw from Spain today was great team defense with no brainfarts or lapses (like France had when they gave up that second goal). No flashy Haalands or Mbappes but they just play winning soccer the entire game with no let up

How am I coming along?

I think Lamine Yamal is a top 2 player in the world. They play a disciplined system with him staying on the wing. It is hard to score from there with two out of bounds lines and two defenders. I think later in his career he will move to attacking center mid and have even more impact. I also think the key to the game was the Spanish midfield dominating the French midfield. Ruiz, Olmo, Rodri all breathtakingly good. But focusing on the defense is a perfectly fine way to look at the game.

My situation right now is, goals and assists are obvious, but it's harder for me to notice when other players are good, short of going by the overall results. An exception would be a player obviously winning a 1 v 1.

Don't try to reduce it to individual stats. First, it is a team game. Second, it sucks out the joy. I say this as a professional data scientist.

Try to find little nuggets. Here is one I will give you. It is called the "half turn." Generally, to receive a pass that goes forward you need to face the player who sends it, which puts your back towards your own goal. However, you want to push the ball towards the opposite goal. So the question is how do you (almost) simultaneously receive the ball and starting pushing towards the intended goal? The answer is the half turn. You receive it sort of sideways and turn upfield by straightening out. And there are variations. That may sound easy but there is only one person in the whole 340 million population of the USA who does it properly, Gio Reyna. (McKennie is not bad, but not like a Spaniard.) So it must not be.

My daughter reached a fairly high level in soccer, by my standards, in middle school. She got her first real coach and he spent the whole first week on turning. I was taught by dads, and while I can see a lot, I cannot do much on the field. Maybe in retirement I will learn how to play properly. (I played my first game 50 years ago, so probably not.)

In the first half of the finals watch Rodri turn every time he receives the ball. No one will touch the ball, ever, and he will be in position to lay off the ball easily. Then in the second half watch Pedri, who is even better at the skill, and is actually the best I have ever seen. Messi is and Maradona was spectacular at this skill as well.





Thanks, your practical tips really help. As a gauge of my interest, the past few weeks I have come to this thread before I have checked the football and basketball boards.

Last night, I "wasted" much of my evening watching video-casts about the state of soccer / youth soccer in the US and one on tryouts (which I wish I had watched before my daughter's first tryout three years ago).

I'm basically too old to play the sport now, so I will never really have that kinesthetic understanding of the game that I have for the "American sports". Still, I am making progress!
sluggo
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My last comment on the game today. France started four wingers, Barcola, Mbappe, Dembele and Olise. Then one defensive midfielder, Tchouamni, and one classical midfielder in Rabiot. And Rabiot is not even good, never has been. Mbappe complained about being outnumbered 3-2 in midfield, and he is right. Maybe he should be the coach.

What was France's theory of scoring goals against a team with better control? One would be that the press will work every once in a while and when it does, you need to hit a great target man. They had one, Cherki, but he was not part of the plans. Another theory was crosses. The Spanish center defenders are 6'2'' and 6'0, and England, if they advance, will send in lots of balls over the top. France had 6'4'' Matete on the bench but he did not play. I think the plan was someone would do something spectacular. Which is fine against worse teams.

In Boston last week, where it was not so hot, I noticed that when the forward players like Mbappe or Dembele got the ball on breaks, the midfielders did not run with them to provide targets. Morocco would have one defender on them, then two, then three because they were so isolated. If I was Mbappe I would have gotten in their faces and screamed. I could not tell on TV whether France lacked effort from the midfield today, but it would not surprise me.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/49362319/kylian-mbappe-critical-tactics-sloppy-france-loss
concordtom
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sluggo said:

concordtom said:

sluggo said:

As Zlatan said, there are levels. Soccer is a game of levels more than any other game, I think. Because it is so complicated. I don't mean to compare it to poetry or something, but it requires you to feel things you can't see, as things are constantly happening in all directions. Every single Spanish player feels the game.

The only other team at all like Spain is Portugal. And they were tied late and hit the crossbar while tied. All while carrying the baggage of Ronaldo. Watch out for them in the 28 Euro. Then the 30 World Cup will be in Spain, Portugal and Morocco. Can't wait. Hoping to see England easily dispatched in the finals.


It will be addition via subtraction when Ronaldo finally gives it up. Portugal should have had a Joe Biden 2024 style intervention a few months (or years) ago.

I'll be in Spain the whole month of July 2030, at our family home on the Med Coast. Yippee!! Can't wait.

Except, for various reasons, the Biden conversation needed to happen in 2023.

Lucky you. I will try to leverage borderline to non-existent connections. I do have an angle to Spanish citizenship, maybe, would be funny to switch sides to watch soccer rather than to join the national team.



I have zero path to citizenship, no Spanish ancestors.
My step father worked in Madrid and Barcelona in the 60's as a businessman/lawyer for an international company. He built a house in 65 when there was nothing in a particular Almeria coastline. We still have the house. I started going in 81. College semester in Madrid. Have friends nearby still.

My best friend there at first didn't like me in the 80's because USA had nukes in bases in Spain, which had been happy to not be involved in ww2. He didn't like Reagan. So he was wary of me.
We laugh about it now, but I guess I learned young to understand different peoples' perspectives.

I'm going there next month to catch up with people again. Lifelong friends since teens.
concordtom
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sluggo said:


Except, for various reasons, the Biden conversation needed to happen in 2023.


When asked in 2020 pre-election day, he said he would be a "transitional president". That was code for "1-term".

Hubris never fails.



 
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