OT: What to do about the Russians?

52,211 Views | 672 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by Unit2Sucks
BearChemist
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graguna;842839427 said:

If that's a trump tweet impression, its a very bad one. Reread what dajo9 wrote. He wrote two grammatically correct coherent sentences.
A trump tweet impression would be more like this; "believe me, Cal88 is bigly russian progandelistism. I know people lots of american people and they are all saying he is not american. lots of people are saying he is not american. dont believe what the fake news says. its all fake. your really can't believe anyone but me. he doesnt love america like i do. I love americans and really all americans love me. just look at my ratings. they're bigly."


That is much longer than 140 characters.
GivemTheAxe
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Bobodeluxe;842839399 said:

A bigger reason for America ican industrial decline was the recovery of all the World War Two devistated economies. We wasted our advantage.


Our rebuilding of Europe and Japan after WWII was the supreme example of American Exceptionalism most other countries would have taken advantage of the situation to take control of the world.
Current president let us know what he would have done. "To the victor belong the spoils".
sycasey
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Bobodeluxe;842839399 said:

A bigger reason for America ican industrial decline was the recovery of all the World War Two devistated economies. We wasted our advantage.


I probably wouldn't say it was "wasted." The USA enjoyed a long period of prosperity in the postwar era. It just wasn't going to last forever.
burritos
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GivemTheAxe;842839434 said:

Our rebuilding of Europe and Japan after WWII was the supreme example of American Exceptionalism most other countries would have taken advantage of the situation to take control of the world.
Current president let us know what he would have done. "To the victor belong the spoils".


From a historical point of view, I think the Civil War exceptionalism>>>WWII exceptionalism. Sure teaming up against the Evil Axis(and they were f-ing evil) and then helping the European brothers when they down was great. But slaughtering your brethren to purge slavery(The Hitler reign was 10 years, Slavery was an ossified institution of 250 years) was an exorcism of the greatest magnitude.

WWII is more of a proximate event where we have loved ones who are tied to it. While saying that "War is Hell', nationally we look upon it and its after effects fondly. The Civil War is a 6 hour Ken Burns PBS documentary at best for most. But 620k were killed in the Civil war out of a population of 31 million. WWII casualties was 420k out of a population of 120 million. If you were to extrapolate the Civil war deaths to today's population that'd be 6.2 million people killed.
okaydo
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burritos;842839439 said:

From a historical point of view, I think the Civil War exceptionalism>>>WWII exceptionalism. Sure teaming up against the Evil Axis(and they were f-ing evil) and then helping the European brothers when they down was great. But slaughtering your brethren to purge slavery(The Hitler reign was 10 years, Slavery was an ossified institution of 250 years) was an exorcism of the greatest magnitude.

WWII is more of a proximate event where we have loved ones who are tied to it. While saying that "War is Hell', nationally we look upon it and its after effects fondly. The Civil War is a 6 hour Ken Burns PBS documentary at best for most. But 620k were killed in the Civil war out of a population of 31 million. WWII casualties was 420k out of a population of 120 million. If you were to extrapolate the Civil war deaths to today's population that'd be 6.2 million people killed.


*11-1/2 hours


Also:

GB54
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burritos;842839439 said:

From a historical point of view, I think the Civil War exceptionalism>>>WWII exceptionalism. Sure teaming up against the Evil Axis(and they were f-ing evil) and then helping the European brothers when they down was great. But slaughtering your brethren to purge slavery(The Hitler reign was 10 years, Slavery was an ossified institution of 250 years) was an exorcism of the greatest magnitude.

WWII is more of a proximate event where we have loved ones who are tied to it. While saying that "War is Hell', nationally we look upon it and its after effects fondly. The Civil War is a 6 hour Ken Burns PBS documentary at best for most. But 620k were killed in the Civil war out of a population of 31 million. WWII casualties was 420k out of a population of 120 million. If you were to extrapolate the Civil war deaths to today's population that'd be 6.2 million people killed.


I think his point on exceptionalism may not be the battles and sacrifice- if anyone, the Soviet Union deserves that title- but the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of a viable democracy in Germany
burritos
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GB54;842839442 said:

I think his point on exceptionalism may not be the battles and sacrifice- if anyone, the Soviet Union deserves that title- but the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of a viable democracy in Germany


As a counter to Communism. Same with Japan.
burritos
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okaydo;842839440 said:

*11-1/2 hours


Also:




Ok. I actually watched the 11 whole hours. Just moving images like you see on your computer screen saver with narration. How much better would it have been had they had iphones back in the day.
GB54
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burritos;842839443 said:

As a counter to Communism. Same with Japan.


Of course but it still was strategic. How's the defeat of Iraq going?
burritos
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GB54;842839445 said:

Of course but it still was strategic. How's the defeat of Iraq going?


Good if you you own or work for the MIC. Very good.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/31/civil-war-rich-mans-battle-poor-mans-war/

Pierpont Morgan of Morgan Stanley made his fortune selling rifles(many of them defective) in the Civil War. Chang Ching!
BearlyCareAnymore
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Cal88;842839406 said:

Globalists become evil when their interests are fundamentally at odds with those of the average people. It's often (but not always) the case. Greece, the Rust Belt, most of the developing world.

This would be a good start on the subject:



https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/0452287081




Yes indeed. One of the main advantages being market size, we did not leverage it the way China or the EU does. China demands local production for access to its domestic markets, including R&D and technology transfer.

This is one example where the interests of the American working class (and those of pretty much everyone in the industrial heartland) did not align with those of Wall Street.

Japan's industrial policy has been driven by MITI, which values a culture of industrial development, whereas in the US it's been more about economic hit men like Mitt Romney. That culture has been seeping to the rest of the world, you have people like Macron who hails from an M&A/LBO background getting the upper hand in Europe.




The problem in the US is that the business culture is unique, it's been defined over the last century by academia and think tanks that have been beholden to a certain economic agenda. There is an entrenched, fatalistic laissez-faire ("those jobs aren't coming back") prevailing ethos. It's not the general trust in free market mechanisms that is the problem here (to the contrary), it's taking that to a near-religious belief, to a point where the basic mechanics and impacts of economic policies are ignored.


This would all be great if globalism was actually the cause of most of the job losses instead of advancing technology that makes the jobs obsolete. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but it is true those jobs aren't coming back.

I absolutely support making a college education affordable again. I absolutely support retraining workers to more modern fields. I think transition support should be given. However, it appears to me that people don't want that. They refuse to go to school and they don't want to move from their birthplace AND the want good pay. I'm sorry, life doesn't work that way. The people who are making money now get educated and are willing to move to get a job.

It makes no sense to hamper our modern economy to cater to a small percentage of the labor force who refuse to adapt and want to do the same job that Daddy and Daddy's daddy did in the same town when no one needs those jobs done. Our economy is very healthy overall. There are always losers. Give them the resources and opportunity to adapt. If they won't take it, that is their problem.

With the speed that technology changes these days, EVERYONE is going to have to be flexible and nimble if they want to have 40 years of successful employment.
sycasey
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GB54;842839372 said:

He was a Corporate Republican. The Democrat party used to align itself with the return on people's labor, under him it switched to favoring the return on capital and the interests of corporations over workers-globalization, trade deals, de-regulation, accelerated downward mobility of the working class, wage stagnation and a new party of professionals hunkered down on the coasts. This is in large part why his wife had little interest in connecting with his/her past-she rejected NAFTA, rejected the War on Crime, rejected the repeal of Glass-Steagall-and couldn't connect with a constituency that Obama won. I could go on but If you have the time, this is better than I could do:

http://http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/hillary-clinton-and-the-populist-revolt


I generally agree with this characterization of Clinton's presidency, but I also agree with dajo that this can't all be laid at the feet of Clinton himself. These policies happened because they were popular at the time, working class included. Democrats felt they had to make the shift to being more pro-business after taking so many losses to Reagan (and Reagan's successor). Hard to argue that they were wrong, given Clinton's easy wins. I'd say he did make a decent effort to spread the wealth around, even while being Corporate.

Of course, these things can change over time, and I don't think that is the mood of the electorate now. In general people are sick of the pro-corporate agenda, especially young people who haven't seen much benefit from Reaganomics. Even Hillary recognized that, but she had too much baggage and couldn't fully commit to running as a populist. Trump managed to bullshit his way to a narrow win, but will never be able to keep his promises to the working class. As you say, the interesting thing is what comes next? 2016 was the last Presidential year in which Boomers will be a majority of eligible voters.
Big C
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OaktownBear;842839499 said:

This would all be great if globalism was actually the cause of most of the job losses instead of advancing technology that makes the jobs obsolete. Sorry if you don't want to hear it, but it is true those jobs aren't coming back.

I absolutely support making a college education affordable again. I absolutely support retraining workers to more modern fields. I think transition support should be given. However, it appears to me that people don't want that. They refuse to go to school and they don't want to move from their birthplace AND the want good pay. I'm sorry, life doesn't work that way. The people who are making money now get educated and are willing to move to get a job.

It makes no sense to hamper our modern economy to cater to a small percentage of the labor force who refuse to adapt and want to do the same job that Daddy and Daddy's daddy did in the same town when no one needs those jobs done. Our economy is very healthy overall. There are always losers. Give them the resources and opportunity to adapt. If they won't take it, that is their problem.

With the speed that technology changes these days, EVERYONE is going to have to be flexible and nimble if they want to have 40 years of successful employment.


Agree 100%. Globalization cannot be stopped, we need to manage it better. The U.S. needs to stay ahead of the curve and keep creating new jobs to replace the old ones that are being lost. Which is why...

Slashing funds for all levels of education is like a company cutting their R and D: It's mortgaging the future. Education in the humanities and social sciences is as important as STEM. I can't decide what is worse for this country, long-term: The fact that Trump is President, or the fact that this is a country that elected Trump as President. We seem to be proud that we don't know sh!t. Perhaps worse, if that sh!t people don't know doesn't directly result in a higher paying job, most folks no longer see ANY POSSIBLE REASON to ever know it.

Instagram is really cool, though.
GivemTheAxe
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GB54;842839442 said:

I think his point on exceptionalism may not be the battles and sacrifice- if anyone, the Soviet Union deserves that title- but the Marshall Plan and rebuilding of a viable democracy in Germany


Correct. I would have chosen the Civil War as the greatest example of American Exceptionalism except for the fact that in the Civil War a large percentage of Americans were fighting to keep Slavery as an institution for monetary reasons.
GB54
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sycasey;842839539 said:

I generally agree with this characterization of Clinton's presidency, but I also agree with dajo that this can't all be laid at the feet of Clinton himself. These policies happened because they were popular at the time, working class included. Democrats felt they had to make the shift to being more pro-business after taking so many losses to Reagan (and Reagan's successor). Hard to argue that they were wrong, given Clinton's easy wins. I'd say he did make a decent effort to spread the wealth around, even while being Corporate.

Of course, these things can change over time, and I don't think that is the mood of the electorate now. In general people are sick of the pro-corporate agenda, especially young people who haven't seen much benefit from Reaganomics. Even Hillary recognized that, but she had too much baggage and couldn't fully commit to running as a populist. Trump managed to bullshit his way to a narrow win, but will never be able to keep his promises to the working class. As you say, the interesting thing is what comes next? 2016 was the last Presidential year in which Boomers will be a majority of eligible voters.


The unions fought NAFTA very hard because they saw what would happen- once a beach head was established, they'd lose leverage. A lot of the other stuff- repeal of Glass Steagall- was stuff nobody but lobbyists and bankers pay attention to. It was all very bi-partisan. Clinton was lucky to also be around at the internet boom, the last big thing in the economy, which did result in rising productivity

This time around even Hillary- an architect of the TPP - came out against it when she saw Sanders success-. It was DOA despite the fact nobody knew what was in it.
dajo9
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GB54;842839557 said:

The unions fought NAFTA very hard because they saw what would happen- once a beach head was established, they'd lose leverage. A lot of the other stuff- repeal of Glass Steagall- was stuff nobody but lobbyists and bankers pay attention to. It was all very bi-partisan. Clinton was lucky to also be around at the internet boom, the last big thing in the economy, which did result in rising productivity

This time around even Hillary- an architect of the TPP - came out against it when she saw Sanders success-. It was DOA despite the fact nobody knew what was in it.


You know what else the unions fought? Hillarycare. Bill Clinton's plan for single payer healthcare was fought by the unions which wanted to keep their cushy plans despite the struggles with healthcare throughout the country.
burritos
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dajo9;842839560 said:

You know what else the unions fought? Hillarycare. Bill Clinton's plan for single payer healthcare was fought by the unions which wanted to keep their cushy plans despite the struggles with healthcare throughout the country.


Is there an instance in where single payer works for country as large as ours?
burritos
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GivemTheAxe;842839543 said:

Correct. I would have chosen the Civil War as the greatest example of American Exceptionalism except for the fact that in the Civil War a large percentage of Americans were fighting to keep Slavery as an institution for monetary reasons.


When you kill your own brothers to terminate an great evil, that is a great example of heroism than killing a different tongued, different skinned toned enemy. Regardless who was on who's side, all participate in the road of enlightenment. Too bad the Native Americans get nothing except for casinos/diabetes/alcoholism/eventual extinction.
Cal Junkie
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Any juice to charging Trump AND the GOP with RICO charges? They certainly deserve it. Take down any dirty Dems too.
burritos
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Cal Junkie;842839570 said:

Any juice to charging Trump AND the GOP with RICO charges? They certainly deserve it. Take down any dirty Dems too.


America deserves Trump. 24 million people are going to lose healthcare. I would surmise that 1/2 of them went Trump. Enjoy the Trump/Pence cake that will be served for the next 8 years(honestly I think Trump makes it only for 2 years after the dementia medication totally stops working).
Unit2Sucks
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Is there an instance where a mixed healthcare environment with most people covered by employer-sponsored plans, others covered by government reimbursed plans and many people completely uncovered by insurance in a private party healthcare system worked for a country as large as ours?

burritos;842839567 said:

Is there an instance in where single payer works for country as large as ours?
OdontoBear66
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dajo9;842839560 said:

You know what else the unions fought? Hillarycare. Bill Clinton's plan for single payer healthcare was fought by the unions which wanted to keep their cushy plans despite the struggles with healthcare throughout the country.


In 1992-1994 Hillary did more to make lifetime strong feelings (amongst many, many Americans) against her than at any other time. She acted as Bill's Presidency was a two for one and pushed way too hard as a FLOTUS. Walls went up against her right then, and never came down for some. Came to offset the first woman as President "glass ceiling" phenomena that she represented. Most agree that there will be a woman as President, and soon, just not her.
oski003
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burritos;842839575 said:

America deserves Trump. 24 million people are going to lose healthcare. I would surmise that 1/2 of them went Trump. Enjoy the Trump/Pence cake that will be served for the next 8 years(honestly I think Trump makes it only for 2 years after the dementia medication totally stops working).


Do all of these 24 million actually have Healthcare now? Did they prior to the ACA?
sycasey
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burritos;842839567 said:

Is there an instance in where single payer works for country as large as ours?


This is a tricky question. The answer is no, but it's also true that there is no other country with a comparable population to the U.S. along with comparable per-capita wealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_(United_Nations)

China and India have FAR GREATER populations than the U.S. (300k to over 1 million), and then you have Indonesia and Brazil just below us, each about 100k smaller. All of them are much poorer, on a per-capita basis.

Japan is probably the most comparable in terms of wealth and "in the ballpark" of population size. They have a kind of hybrid public/private system (people get insurance through their employers, but those who are not employed can enter a government plan, and the government also tightly controls what providers can charge in medical fees). I can see this as a potential end point for the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_system_in_Japan
sycasey
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oski003;842839581 said:

Do all of these 24 million actually have Healthcare now? Did they prior to the ACA?


Yes, they do, and prior to the ACA, no, they didn't.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/07/obamacare-pushes-nations-health-uninsured-rate-to-record-low.html

The Republican plan would basically throw them back off of coverage (primarily from defunding Medicaid).

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486
burritos
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oski003;842839581 said:

Do all of these 24 million actually have Healthcare now? Did they prior to the ACA?


I don't know. I honestly don't care. I'm getting my popcorn and watching chips fall they may. If anything, it'll be fun to watch. Don't you agree?
going4roses
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Hmm k
GB54
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Unit2Sucks;842839576 said:

Is there an instance where a mixed healthcare environment with most people covered by employer-sponsored plans, others covered by government reimbursed plans and many people completely uncovered by insurance in a private party healthcare system worked for a country as large as ours?


.....or anywhere else?
burritos
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Unit2Sucks;842839576 said:

Is there an instance where a mixed healthcare environment with most people covered by employer-sponsored plans, others covered by government reimbursed plans and many people completely uncovered by insurance in a private party healthcare system worked for a country as large as ours?


I don't think so. I think a historical perspective might be helpful. Post WWII, with Europe in ruins and of no help, industrial employers in the US were desperate to hire from a post war citizenry. U.S. employers did not have infinite cash to hire, so they offered health care benefits. This was not a devious plan to usurp healthcare to the haves from have nots. It was just reality and the way to attract warm bodies. The Government obliged the employers with a generous take write off. Why not? Better than the government trying commandeer health care. Of course when you the individual aren't paying for medical treatment, you don't care what it costs. Medicine/free market forces in turn chases profits/insurance money in the name of "curing" disease, which seems to be noble endeavor. But now we are where we are. What is the solution? I don't know. But you can't just go to defon 5 outrage just because we can't have a European style system tomorrow(can't have Bernie, fine f it , let's take Trump). I guess genx'r and Millennials have that right, because they deserve everything their heart desires. My point was Obama tried to unwind it, but that wasn't good enough. Back to the status quo where we less haves, and more have nots. Take steps to make sure you and your loved ones are on the right side of the equation and good luck.
sycasey
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burritos;842839590 said:

Back to the status quo where we less haves, and more have nots. Take steps to make sure you and your loved ones are on the right side of the equation and good luck.


Except I don't think it's going back to the status quo. Even in their repeal efforts Republicans are very skittish about going against popular provisions like protecting against discrimination for pre-existing conditions, eliminating lifetime caps, and letting children stay on their parents' insurance through age 26. Some GOP Senators from states that took the Medicaid expansion (Arizona, Alaska, Arkansas, Ohio, West Virginia) don't want to go back to their constituents and say they took it away. All of that indicates that Obamacare did its job: it placed the expectation in people's minds that they should be entitled to health coverage.

It will be interesting to see what the Senate comes up with to try to thread this needle.
Unit2Sucks
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There are a few systems I can envision which would be better than ours and which don't approach single-payer. First we could go with a Bismark system which seems to work well when implemented. That would be a more drastic change. I think there are simpler things we could do in order to combat what I think the real problem with US healthcare is - localized risk pools.

Although nominally for states' rights, a lot of republicans seem to be comfortable with Trump's plan to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. What that essentially means is that we are doing a run around each states ability to regulate insurance and healthcare. I'm not sure what the constitutional basis would be for such a maneuver but that's another story. I think the idea is that if you can increase the size of the risk pool you can make healthcare affordable for people who need it the most.

So what I would like to see happen under the existing ACA platform is that for a company to offer employer sponsored plans in a state, they need to offer identical ACA marketplace plans. And they have to do it for the same price. I recognize that this will increase the cost to employers but I think ultimately it will be good for small business creation and reduce underwriting and administrative expenses for insurance companies although I admittedly don't know that much about their businesses.

I would also like to see transparent pricing for healthcare. There should be a price and the price is the same regardless of who is paying it.

A third point I would make is that under the old system it wasn't true that people without insurance were not receiving any healthcare - they were getting it through emergency room access which hospitals were required by law to provide to everyone. And of course people couldn't afford to pay those costs so they were absorbed by the system which means they were theoretically distributed to all people bearing healthcare expenses in this country. My suggestions are essentially getting back to that economic reality, but providing a higher level of care and not overburdening emergency rooms and not distributing those costs somewhat unevenly.

I'm sure there are lots of problems with what I've suggested but at a high level what I'm saying is we should have pricing transparency and the largest practical risk pools. How we get there I don't know but I do think it would do a lot to both increase access and affordability for health care as well as reducing administrative burdens.
burritos
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sycasey;842839593 said:

Except I don't think it's going back to the status quo. Even in their repeal efforts Republicans are very skittish about going against popular provisions like protecting against discrimination for pre-existing conditions, eliminating lifetime caps, and letting children stay on their parents' insurance through age 26. Some GOP Senators from states that took the Medicaid expansion (Arizona, Alaska, Arkansas, Ohio, West Virginia) don't want to go back to their constituents and say they took it away. All of that indicates that Obamacare did its job: it placed the expectation in people's minds that they should be entitled to health coverage.

It will be interesting to see what the Senate comes up with to try to thread this needle.

Republicans who voted to repeal Obamacare a million times don't repeal it? Classic.
burritos
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Unit2Sucks;842839594 said:



I would also like to see transparent pricing for healthcare. There should be a price and the price is the same regardless of who is paying it.




I'm for this 100%. We must also have transparency on how much each individual is utilizing and if they are taking reasonable steps to improve their health through lifestyle modifications if reasonable.
sycasey
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burritos;842839599 said:

Republicans who voted to repeal Obamacare a million times don't repeal it? Classic.


It's easy to vote for something when it will have no consequences.
sp4149
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Somehow I would expect the health care industry to vigorously fight transparent pricing; led by Big Pharma. One pricing structure that needs to change, and has been opposed by the GOP, is for Medicare to pay higher prices for prescription drugs than health care insurers like Blue Cross/Blue shield. When the government pays competitive drug prices there would be more health care money available to expand the coverage expansion of ACA. For 42 years I have had the same healthcare plan provider. Two years ago UC hospitals dropped out of the group of Preferred Providers for my plan. They refused to accept the reimbursement levels the plan had negotiated with other hospital groups. UC Hospitals had been the cornerstone of hospital care for my family for over 60 years. No longer an option. I guess I am an unwanted Alumnus. It's hard to be 100% loyal when your alma mater's hospital system doesn't want you as a patient.

I remember back when the argument for plans like Romney care, which morphed into the ACA at a national level, the think tank argument presented was that the new plan would help hospitals avoid some of the ER costs of uncovered patients. The accepted mantra, was that hospitals had enormous losses due to ER costs for the uninsured that they always treated. At the same time, back in the red state of North Carolina, my best friend at the time went to the ER at a hospital in Charlotte, he had recently taken an early medical retirement but was too young for Medicare. The ER physicians told him he was very sick but that they would not treat him; he had to find other medical care. Three days later he died in his bed still waiting for a doctor's appointment. A week later police broke into his house and found his long dead body. True this was before Obama's election, but it was also proof that Hospitals did not always provide care to the uncovered (or out of plan covered) ER patients. I observed a next cubicle co-worker fall ill, be taken to a nearby ER, where his serious condition was diagnosed and emergency surgery was recommended; however he had Kaiser which demanded his transfer to a Kaiser Hospital for treatment. At Kaiser they decided against surgery and he died a couple of days later. Again just because you go to the ER, there is no guarantee of life saving or even life prolonging treatment. Finally you do not get to choose the ER if you call 911, you may request but the dispatcher may send you to a different nearby hospital that is not part of your local health care plan, as happened with my wife in Dec 2011. She got hospital care but not treatment and ultimately died as her condition declined, in part due to being sent to the "wrong" hospital group that would not communicate with her primary care and specialist physicians. Back then we could have gone to UC Med Ctr as part of our plan, but it was a hospital ER too far.

In some medically underserved states like Louisiana finding an ER in the first place can be difficult. With my in-laws they were transported to an excellent facility 15 miles away, but bypassed five hospitals that did not offer ER care. Fortunately in their cases minutes and seconds did not matter and the extra 15-20 minutes of transportation time was not a factor in their outcome. Overall I concede ER costs are a major problem, however it is a fallacy to assume that Hospitals always treat or provide ER care to everyone.

Unit2Sucks;842839594 said:

There are a few systems I can envision which would be better than ours and which don't approach single-payer. ...
I would also like to see transparent pricing for healthcare. There should be a price and the price is the same regardless of who is paying it.

A third point I would make is that under the old system it wasn't true that people without insurance were not receiving any healthcare - they were getting it through emergency room access which hospitals were required by law to provide to everyone. And of course people couldn't afford to pay those costs so they were absorbed by the system which means they were theoretically distributed to all people bearing healthcare expenses in this country. My suggestions are essentially getting back to that economic reality, but providing a higher level of care and not overburdening emergency rooms and not distributing those costs somewhat unevenly.

I'm sure there are lots of problems with what I've suggested but at a high level what I'm saying is we should have pricing transparency and the largest practical risk pools. How we get there I don't know but I do think it would do a lot to both increase access and affordability for health care as well as reducing administrative burdens.
 
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