White House has settled in

Another Bear
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bearister said:

BearChemist said:

Sarah Huckabee Sanders's stunning non-denial that Trump used the n-word

Sarah, Sarah, you have one damn job.

She is the embodiment of the adage, beauty is only skin deep but ugly is to the bone. She is an accessory to the criminal fraud being perpetrated on the nation, as is the giggly little ginger before her.


Putin thinks that's hilarious and wants SHS! They'd make a great pair.



B.A. Bearacus
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Honest question: let's assume a tape surfaces that captures Trump saying the n-word. What effect, if any, would it have on the Republicans who still support him today?

My guess is close to zero. Jeff Flake will tweet something that sounds kinda cool, some Evangelical leader will emphasize on CNN that the comment was made over 10 years ago, the BI posters who voted for Trump will stop posting in Off Topic for two weeks, and his approval rating among Republicans will drop by 1% for a month before bouncing back.

Anyone legitimately think it would be a tipping point?
NYCGOBEARS
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His approval ratings go up a few points is what I'd guess. He's been remaking that dog whistle into a bullhorn for a long time now.
B.A. Bearacus
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NYCGOBEARS said:

His approval ratings go up a few points is what I'd guess. He's been remaking that dog whistle into a bullhorn for a long time now.
I don't know man, I think I need another drink.

Another Bear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Honest question: let's assume a tape surfaces that captures Trump saying the n-word. What effect, if any, would it have on the Republicans who still support him today?

My guess is close to zero. Jeff Flake will tweet something that sounds kinda cool, some Evangelical leader will emphasize on CNN that the comment was made over 10 years ago, the BI posters who voted for Trump will stop posting in Off Topic for two weeks, and his approval rating among Republicans will drop by 1% for a month before bouncing back.

Anyone legitimately think it would be a tipping point?
It doesn't matter what Trump did or didn't say regarding racial slurs. His base is set and the polls are in. GOP looking the other way, even if they dislike him. No tipping point.

Poll Shows Whopping Number of U.S. Voters Don't Like Trump as a Person
Quote:

Fewer than one in three American voters like President Trump as a person while 59 percent dislike him, a new Quinnipiac University poll said Tuesday.

Overall, just 31 percent of voters said they liked the commander-in-chief, who has been on a summer-long Twitter rant attacking Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the FBI, special counsel Robert Mueller, Hillary Clinton and the "fake news" media, among others.

Most Republicans remained loyal, with 66 percent saying they like him and 24 percent saying no thanks the only listed party, gender, education, age or racial group that still liked him 19 months into his first term.


bearister
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tRump's working class base will like him even more if he used the N word because it will affirm that POTUS talks "just like we do." The wealthy part of his base could care less what he says or does as long as his economic policies continue to accelerate the delivery system by which the riches of the nation are transferred into their coffers. Start reading the comment section of the Daily Mail for any story relating to the tRump Administration if you think I am exaggerating.
B.A. Bearacus
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Peter Strzok has posted two tweets total. His second was this, which I'm sure in large part is appreciation for the now $370K that has been raised to cover his legal expenses via GoFundMe.
Another Bear
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Well perhaps Trump's slurs could be a tipping point...although it could be anything, like RUSSIA!!! There's fear from the WH that Omarosa might have a whole slew of tapes, which she'll drop daily for however long. Karma is a beotch!!!

'People are terrified': Trump staffers live in fear of Omarosa's next tape

Quote:

Trump aides are suffering from the same type of psychological warfare that gripped Clinton's campaign during the WikiLeaks dumps.
mikecohen
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Flake often comes across, in words, as the most or only dignified Republican serving our country.


Flake doesn't have to run for election anymore -- so it's kind-of like doing beautiful cape works without the bull charging at you. Ole'
mikecohen
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Honest question: let's assume a tape surfaces that captures Trump saying the n-word. What effect, if any, would it have on the Republicans who still support him today?

My guess is close to zero. Jeff Flake will tweet something that sounds kinda cool, some Evangelical leader will emphasize on CNN that the comment was made over 10 years ago, the BI posters who voted for Trump will stop posting in Off Topic for two weeks, and his approval rating among Republicans will drop by 1% for a month before bouncing back.

Anyone legitimately think it would be a tipping point?
There are so many in the Republican Party who like that and get fired up by it, who's to say Trump doesn't climb in the poles if that happened.
okaydo
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Cal alum Brian Beutler makes an interesting argument in this article:


B.A. Bearacus
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Not convinced, Okaydo. Trump will be forced to apologize, which he will do with some qualifier tacked on. Apology will be tweeted. That's about it. Will his supporters who are behind his very high favorable ratings (among Republicans) suddenly clamor for him to resign because of this? No. So what difference will it really make this time? It's not about liberals being stubborn or jaded. Lots of data points. We observe that his followers stick to the Fox script, and Fox sticks to the Trump script, no matter what. Anyone think Hannity or the other shills will pound Trump into the ground for this? Nope. Would be dumb to think otherwise.
B.A. Bearacus
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Below is a window into the n-word on tape non-fallout. Searching for articles that are potentially damaging to Trump is very difficult on FoxNews.com. I ultimately had to do a google search and include "fox news."

The fallout will be a discussion about the unfairness of blacks not being punished for using the n-word and how wrong it is for this word to be so common in rap music. Maybe a panel led by an African American on how to stop its use in rap. Kanye will forgive Trump in an interview on Fox. Would not be surprised if Trump is partially buttering up Kanye so much because Kanye could be his soft landing if this thing (which he knows could potentially be out there) crashes down to earth.
...............................................................................................

mikecohen
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okaydo said:

Cal alum Brian Beutler makes an interesting argument in this article:



Beutler's sole argument is that actually hearing a recording of Trump undeniably uttering the N-Word would mean enough to the members of his solid base to peel enough of them away to make a difference, basically because THEY (according to Beutler) define racism in terms of words not deeds (which, IMHO, is a very doubtful proposition, just on its face).
mikecohen
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Below is a window into the n-word on tape non-fallout. Searching for articles that are potentially damaging to Trump is very difficult on FoxNews.com. I ultimately had to do a google search and include "fox news."

The fallout will be a discussion about the unfairness of blacks not being punished for using the n-word and how wrong it is for this word to be so common in rap music. Maybe a panel led by an African American on how to stop its use in rap. Kanye will forgive Trump in an interview on Fox.
...............................................................................................


That email exchange is absolutely brilliant. Did you make it up?; or is there something like that, of such purity, out there in the real world. I've never seen a better, or clearer characterization of what goes on on Fox (and what regularly comes out of the mouths of Republican apologists in general). If it wasn't so brilliant it would be absolutely sickening.
B.A. Bearacus
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This was just a screen capture that I took of the actual comments section of an actual FoxNews.com story titled "Omarosa's Trump tape story unravels, as more officials challenge 'N-word' claim." It was one of the popular comments that appeared near the top when sorted by "best."
bearister
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"The Senate ... has installed 24 appellate judges since Trump was sworn in, the highest number for a president's first two years in office," the WashPost's Sean Sullivan and Mike DeBonis report:

Why it matters: "While much of the focus has been on [Brett] Kavanaugh and Justice Neil M. Gorsuch, the Senate's rapid approval of appellate judges is likely to have its own broad impact on the nation."
The "13 circuit courts will shape decisions on immigration, voting rights, abortion and the environment for generations."
For Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, "this is the culmination of a years-long gambit that started with stymieing President Barack Obama's judicial nominees, most notably Supreme Court choice Merrick Garland, and creating a backlog of vacancies on the nation's highest courts." Axios
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kjkbear
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Given the outrageous and simply wrong things this President has said over the past two years --without paying a price--I can't see the N word causing him any backlash. Is there anything he can say which will get him in political trouble? If so, what is it? The arguments made here already show it doesn't matter if he used the word 1000 times The messenger will be destroyed a nd that will be that. Other presidents used henchmen to go after people Trump does it all himself
sycasey
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okaydo said:

Cal alum Brian Beutler makes an interesting argument in this article:



I think this makes some good points. One thing that people now forget is that the Access Hollywood tape DID have political consequences for Trump. His polling numbers fell hard after that came out. It's just that it was offset by some other stuff coming out about Hillary closer to Election Day (most prominently the Comey letter).

Such a tape coming out would also have some impact on Trump's approval. Would it cause a large number of his supporters to peel away? Maybe not. But it would lose him SOME support.

Part of the issue with Trump is that he's already very unpopular, especially for a president in a decent economy and no wars, so whatever support he loses is probably only going to be on the margins. He's already pretty close to the baseline. That marginal loss can still make a difference in elections though.
okaydo
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kjkbear said:

Given the outrageous and simply wrong things this President has said over the past two years --without paying a price--I can't see the N word causing him any backlash. Is there anything he can say which will get him in political trouble? If so, what is it? The arguments made here already show it doesn't matter if he used the word 1000 times The messenger will be destroyed a nd that will be that. Other presidents used henchmen to go after people Trump does it all himself

"I am rescinding Brett Kavanaugh's nomination and appointing Barack Obama to the U.S. Supreme Court."
Unit2Sucks
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I don't think there is any chance the N word hurts Trump. White supremacists will nod their heads in unison with yet more confirmation that Trump believes what they do. Kanye will come out and say that Trump is a black man and therefore entitled to use the word. Trump will embroil himself in a bigger scandal the next day to hide the prior one and life will go on as usual.

As an aside, I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that the N word is used so frequently in hip hop can make it difficult for *some* people to avoid using the word entirely. I have never intentionally used the word to describe a black person, but from time to time the word pops into my head when I recollect lyrics or hear a song. On the other hand, I have never even come close to using the c-word because it's really not in my vocabulary, but as noted above I would be lying if I said I've never had to restrain myself from using the N word when not directed at african americans. All that said, I don't think Trump is a hip-hop fan and I doubt he is using it in the "N word please" sense. The argument that it's okay for a septuagenarian to use the N word in a derogatory manner toward african americans because Cube, Dre and Easy-E created NWA and used the word a lot doesn't hold water for me. Bottom line, I have some sympathy for white people who accidentally use the N word when not specifically intended to target an african american because they have been influenced by hip-hop culture, but that sympathy doesn't apply to racists who use hip hop as an excuse.
Another Bear
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okaydo said:

Cal alum Brian Beutler makes an interesting argument in this article:



It would matter and be a big deal *IF* there's a tape. So I agree with him generally but the issue right now is there's no tape and a questionable source. A tape however would create fall out, just don't know how it would evolve and roll.

If there's a take-away here, it's Trump has serious issues with recordings and staff...and perhaps there's a chance it comes back to bite him big time.
sycasey
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Another Bear said:

If there's a take-away here, it's Trump has serious issues with recordings and staff...and perhaps there's a chance it comes back to bite him big time.
Agreed, that's the biggest takeaway for me. Regardless of the veracity of all claims, this is yet more evidence that the Trump Administration is pure incompetence from top to bottom. They can't keep a lid on anything.
Another Bear
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Too much incompetence and pure stupidity for things not to fail for Trump.

The issue right now is the GOP base is getting what they want (judges and taxes). Something however will fail. I think the GOP lock step will be crushed and disarmed...and that's when the facade falls.
BearDevil
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Worst case scenario would be if there's video of Trump dropping a c bomb. While he claims he doesn't use the n word, there's not much upside left for Trump hate in the Black community.

Video of Trump dropping a c bomb would be far more devastating. Women are the largest voting bloc and while Trump's already doing poorly with them, he can still drop farther with women. Huckabee and Kellyanne wouldn't quit, but Ivanka and Melania would have to crack on him. Ivanka didn't shut down her clothing line to focus more on Daddy.

Video is way more damaging than audio. Roy Moore's wife's quote about their "Jew lawyer" and Roseanne Barr's whiny excuse about Valerie Jarrett were deplorable in print, but way more troubling when viewed in context.
Anarchistbear
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Omerosa recorded Kelly in the situation room where he brought her because there were no recordings. What a moron! Just shows that being a reality show contestant is far greater training for working in the White House than being a General.

Omerosa was an Al Gore staffer.
bearister
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I voted for Gore but he sets off a lot of crackling on my weirdo Geiger counter.
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okaydo
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mikecohen
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B.A. Bearacus said:

This was just a screen capture that I took of the actual comments section of an actual FoxNews.com story titled "Omarosa's Trump tape story unravels, as more officials challenge 'N-word' claim." It was one of the popular comments that appeared near the top when sorted by "best."
Far ******* Out!
mikecohen
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Unit2Sucks said:

I don't think there is any chance the N word hurts Trump. White supremacists will nod their heads in unison with yet more confirmation that Trump believes what they do. Kanye will come out and say that Trump is a black man and therefore entitled to use the word. Trump will embroil himself in a bigger scandal the next day to hide the prior one and life will go on as usual.

As an aside, I don't necessarily disagree with the fact that the N word is used so frequently in hip hop can make it difficult for *some* people to avoid using the word entirely. I have never intentionally used the word to describe a black person, but from time to time the word pops into my head when I recollect lyrics or hear a song. On the other hand, I have never even come close to using the c-word because it's really not in my vocabulary, but as noted above I would be lying if I said I've never had to restrain myself from using the N word when not directed at african americans. All that said, I don't think Trump is a hip-hop fan and I doubt he is using it in the "N word please" sense. The argument that it's okay for a septuagenarian to use the N word in a derogatory manner toward african americans because Cube, Dre and Easy-E created NWA and used the word a lot doesn't hold water for me. Bottom line, I have some sympathy for white people who accidentally use the N word when not specifically intended to target an african american because they have been influenced by hip-hop culture, but that sympathy doesn't apply to racists who use hip hop as an excuse.

I'ts probably worth repeating that the intent of any utterance is central to its meaning. So, for me, I am offended by Drake's liberal use of "the N word" because, in my mind, he's not really "black" (in a way similar, but not exactly, to the way Obama is not really "black", because, in my mind, "black" means that cultural state of struggling to overcome hundreds of years of slavery and its aspects continued after Emancipation to the present. I imagine this is probably unfair to Drake (and probably Obama and all others with that kind of mixed heritage, who nevertheless are never that far away from being abused, even to death, by various kinds of racism); but I read Drake as being culturally a lot more Jewish and Canadian than oppressed by that history, so that I see his casual use of the word as, for lack of a better word, superficial and disingenuous. Probably worth a discussion to get various points of view.
bearister
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"Drug overdoses killed a record 72,000* Americans last year, driven by a surge in synthetic opioids.

The big picture: "The dominant factor is the changing drug supply," epidemiologist Brandon Marshall told the N.Y. Times' Margot Sanger-Katz. The synthetic opioid fentanyl is increasingly found mixed with other drugs, and its potency is a factor in the uptick in overdoses." Axios

...and tRump occupies his waking hours in a tweet war with Omarosa.

* Put in perspective, 58,000 military personnel did during the Vietnam War.
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Unit2Sucks
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mikecohen said:

I'ts probably worth repeating that the intent of any utterance is central to its meaning. So, for me, I am offended by Drake's liberal use of "the N word" because, in my mind, he's not really "black" (in a way similar, but not exactly, to the way Obama is not really "black", because, in my mind, "black" means that cultural state of struggling to overcome hundreds of years of slavery and its aspects continued after Emancipation to the present. I imagine this is probably unfair to Drake (and probably Obama and all others with that kind of mixed heritage, who nevertheless are never that far away from being abused, even to death, by various kinds of racism); but I read Drake as being culturally a lot more Jewish and Canadian than oppressed by that history, so that I see his casual use of the word as, for lack of a better word, superficial and disingenuous. Probably worth a discussion to get various points of view.


In Drake's defense, the racists don't see what you see. You might see a successful mixed race individual with a known background. You can guess what the marchers in Charlottesville would call him.
Anarchistbear
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There aren't that many African Americans pure enough to trace their lineage to 100% slavery. There was a lot of screwing around. Even if they were pure it doesn't matter-it's a question of identification as much as blood. Obama chooses to identify as African American- good for him. He's no less African American than anyone else and certainly subject to the same prejudices even though he is not racially "pure."

The argument about use of the N word is silly- it's a viscous epithet or an insider's term of solidarity. Everyone who uses that word knows exactly where they stand.
mikecohen
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Anarchistbear said:

There aren't that many African Americans pure enough to trace their lineage to 100% slavery. There was a lot of screwing around. Even if they were pure it doesn't matter-it's a question of identification as much as blood. Obama chooses to identify as African American- good for him. He's no less African American than anyone else and certainly subject to the same prejudices even though he is not racially "pure."

The argument about use of the N word is silly- it's a viscous epithet or an insider's term of solidarity. Everyone who uses that word knows exactly where they stand.
I believe that oppression is a burden that gets passed down through the generations and forces every child who receives it to deal with it as a weight that can kill you unless you can find a way to alleviate it.

I also believe enough in human progress to believe that the weight of the creative solutions also builds up through the generations.

I also understand that just the visibility (or mark) of it subjects the bearer in this country to the essentially constant weight of negative regard from the others in this society who are, by the way, no less infected with the disease (albeit from the other side); but I still believe that it is nevertheless very different not to have the actual experience of slavery and its aftermath handed down directly into your psyche through the effects that it has had on your direct forebears.
mikecohen
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Anarchistbear said:

There aren't that many African Americans pure enough to trace their lineage to 100% slavery. There was a lot of screwing around. Even if they were pure it doesn't matter-it's a question of identification as much as blood. Obama chooses to identify as African American- good for him. He's no less African American than anyone else and certainly subject to the same prejudices even though he is not racially "pure."

The argument about use of the N word is silly- it's a viscous epithet or an insider's term of solidarity. Everyone who uses that word knows exactly where they stand.
The question that concerns us at this point though is not so much the people who use it as the people who hear it used in the various contexts. In some contexts, there is no question. In the context in which the issue has come up at present, enough people who could and do negatively affect all of our lives appear to believe that the effect on people who hear it in this context might have enough significance for us all that they fear such an effect.
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