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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 10:33a, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Why would anyone suggest a pre-teen undergo barbaric sex-change surgery which will stop natural development, put them on a life-long medical rollercoaster, and dramatically limit their pool of potential life partners? Why the rush on this exploding fad?
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oski003
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In reply to concordtom • 10:33a, 5/21/23
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Add one or two trans divisions. This is fairly black and white. Perhaps one could be for biological men who transitioned relatively early and have reduced most of the gender advantages. The other could be for those who haven't done so. Or they could just be in one division. Problem solved.

We'll fly in the 1 swimmer from PA and the 2 in TX to join the 3 in California. It'll be the Big Race, 30 seconds across the pool, after tens of thousands of dollars in transportation costs.

Sorry, come up with another remedy to your problem.


There are six trans women swimmers in the entire NCAA? Incredible how great their results are since they are six out of 18,000. What is your source for only six?
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DiabloWags
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In reply to DiabloWags • 10:39a, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
dimitrig said:
oski003 said:


Add one or two trans divisions. This is fairly black and white. Perhaps one could be for biological men who transitioned relatively early and have reduced most of the gender advantages. The other could be for those who haven't done so. Or they could just be in one division. Problem solved.


There aren't enough trans athletes to create such a division which is why this is so stupid.


Bingo.

Im not surprised that Oski thinks there are enough transgender athletes to support an Open Division in the NCAA. He's terribly out of touch. That's why I have him back on ignore.


PS. There are a total of 5 known transgender swimmers in NCAA D1.

https://www.outsports.com/trans/2022/1/7/22850789/trans-athletes-college-ncaa-lia-thomas

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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concordtom
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In reply to DiabloWags • 11:08a, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
It goes to the "integrity" of sport Tom.

Should be obvious, no matter what level of competition.

You may not give a damn about high school competition, but thats irrelevant. Im pretty sure the high school athletes care.

The IOC (no longer allows it) at the Olympic level, so why should it be allowed at the high school level?


Please!
The integrity of the sport.
That's a bit of a joke. That has been blown out a million times.

Let's see….
When I was in high school, I was a young late blooming freshman and had to compete against some freshman who were 18 months older and shaving. I subsequently grew 8 inches. But not until after I was cut from the basketball team at tryouts.
My high school played at DLS and they tried to recruit our RB after the game. Later, as we've come to know, DLS recruits from all over the county. Unfair? Yes, they were later placed in a separate division.

And those are just two extremely minor things among millions of complaints people could come up with.

If you wanted to something right, you would have a basketball league for those under 6' tall only, and then how about for under 5'8" only, as that's the AVERAGE height for males.

The way we do it now totally DISCRIMINATES against those with normal to short genes. How come nobody complains about that??

LA used to have divisions, you know: Varsity, B, C…..
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DiabloWags
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In reply to concordtom • 11:10a, 5/21/23
Comical.

Everyone has "recruited" over the years including CVHS and Las Lomas. Not just a private school like DLS.. You should be well aware of this Tom.

Never mind that the AD's of other schools have the right to block transfers, but they never do. Gee, I wonder why.

PS. There are no divisions in CIF Track and Field. You could be from a small school like Branson with 800 kids or James Logan with 3500. Doesnt matter.

If you dont believe me, head down to Clovis next weekend for the State Track and Field Championships at Buchanon High.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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oski003
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In reply to concordtom • 11:25a, 5/21/23
concordtom said:
DiabloWags said:
It goes to the "integrity" of sport Tom.

Should be obvious, no matter what level of competition.

You may not give a damn about high school competition, but thats irrelevant. Im pretty sure the high school athletes care.

The IOC (no longer allows it) at the Olympic level, so why should it be allowed at the high school level?


Please!
The integrity of the sport.
That's a bit of a joke. That has been blown out a million times.

Let's see….
When I was in high school, I was a young late blooming freshman and had to compete against some freshman who were 18 months older and shaving. I subsequently grew 8 inches. But not until after I was cut from the basketball team at tryouts.
My high school played at DLS and they tried to recruit our RB after the game. Later, as we've come to know, DLS recruits from all over the county. Unfair? Yes, they were later placed in a separate division.

And those are just two extremely minor things among millions of complaints people could come up with.

If you wanted to something right, you would have a basketball league for those under 6' tall only, and then how about for under 5'8" only, as that's the AVERAGE height for males.

The way we do it now totally DISCRIMINATES against those with normal to short genes. How come nobody complains about that??

LA used to have divisions, you know: Varsity, B, C…..


There are age limits for each class. It sounds like you were on the young side and others on the old side. That's normal stuff.
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sycasey
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In reply to oski003 • 11:51a, 5/21/23
oski003 said:
Add one or two trans divisions. This is fairly black and white. Perhaps one could be for biological men who transitioned relatively early and have reduced most of the gender advantages. The other could be for those who haven't done so. Or they could just be in one division. Problem solved.

Sure, if you want people competing in an "event" against 1 or 0 other athletes. Come on.

This is only a "solution" if you actually think there is going to be a massive deluge of trans athletes trying to compete at high levels, which is not going to happen.
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sycasey
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In reply to movielover • 11:51a, 5/21/23
movielover said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Why would anyone suggest a pre-teen undergo barbaric sex-change surgery which will stop natural development, put them on a life-long medical rollercoaster, and dramatically limit their pool of potential life partners? Why the rush on this exploding fad?
Pre-teens aren't having surgeries.
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Cal88
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12:11p, 5/21/23
14-15 years olds are, for now, the trend is going younger, as now you can have children as young as 8yo being put on puberty blockers, which can have long-term effects of sterilization and other ailments.

https://www.salon.com/2022/06/16/gender-transition-treatment-minimum-age-lowered-to-14-years-old/
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to sycasey • 12:18p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Why would anyone suggest a pre-teen undergo barbaric sex-change surgery which will stop natural development, put them on a life-long medical rollercoaster, and dramatically limit their pool of potential life partners? Why the rush on this exploding fad?
Pre-teens aren't having surgeries.
Hormone blockers at 13, Surgery at 15. So ethical.
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sycasey
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In reply to MinotStateBeav • 12:30p, 5/21/23
MinotStateBeav said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Why would anyone suggest a pre-teen undergo barbaric sex-change surgery which will stop natural development, put them on a life-long medical rollercoaster, and dramatically limit their pool of potential life partners? Why the rush on this exploding fad?
Pre-teens aren't having surgeries.
Hormone blockers at 13, Surgery at 15. So ethical.
So not pre-teens then.
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MinotStateBeav
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In reply to sycasey • 12:43p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
MinotStateBeav said:
sycasey said:
movielover said:
sycasey said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
oski003 said:
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????


For here on out, concordtom has declared all BI discussions must involve life and death.

Since this is a football site, we can start here.



Funny clip.
But, you know, what would actually happen if men transition and start competing in women's sports… it's not that guns would be pulled out in a life-n-death situation, but the women would start popping pills so they can out-man the men.

Okay, why don't you and the other lgtbq phobes just start all your lgbtq-phobic posts with a disclaimer acknowledging who you are. Then we can just bypass.

Or better yet, I can put those I don't like on Ignore. Yes, that's a better idea.

Movielover, goodbye!
Who's next?

PS: insane choice for lighting by the director. Must be going for the Caravaggio in a sound stage cinematography award.



You can certainly put people on ignore. It is not LGBTQ phobic to post concerns about biological men competing with women in sports. If anything, it is so clearly and obviously wrong, it is easy to discuss. It is nearly black and white while other trans issues are fairly gray. It is unfortunate that misguided trans advocates are ruining women's sports.

No, this one is also fairly gray. If a trans woman athlete has been taking hormones, doing surgeries, etc., that will reduce their athletic performance. That's not in dispute. The questions are over HOW MUCH reduction there is and if there is still too much unfair advantage remaining (and the advantage might also be different for different sports). Also, there are going to be differences depending on WHEN you started the physical transition process. Pre puberty or post?

Not black and white at all. And a lot of this needs more study, because . . . well, there just haven't been a lot of historical examples to measure.


Why would anyone suggest a pre-teen undergo barbaric sex-change surgery which will stop natural development, put them on a life-long medical rollercoaster, and dramatically limit their pool of potential life partners? Why the rush on this exploding fad?
Pre-teens aren't having surgeries.
Hormone blockers at 13, Surgery at 15. So ethical.
So not pre-teens then.
Your brain is a pre-teen.
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movielover
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In reply to sycasey • 12:47p, 5/21/23
Detransitioner Chloe Cole had Testosterone injections and hormone blockers at 13; double mastectomy at 15.

She alleges in her transition, one endocrinologist had some concerns, and so another was inserted into her path. She also says she wasn't properly informed (couldn't consent), and the multiple and significant risks were quickly passed over. These include sterility; inability to breast feed; her mastectomy wounds continuing to seep / bleed; how testosterone and hormone blockers play havoc with her body; and once coming off the meds, her menstruation hasn't returned.

Psychologically, she never (her take) realized her potential dating pool dramatically diminished, and in her view, only those with a fetish would be interested in her.

She's suing Kaiser for $75 million, represented by Hastings alum Harmeet Dhillion. The UK has a rash of similar lawsuits.

One commenter claimed the standards for transition were "rigorous", but then said only one letter from a medical professional was required.
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In reply to Cal88 • 12:50p, 5/21/23
Cal88 said:
14-15 years olds are, for now, the trend is going younger, as now you can have children as young as 8yo being put on puberty blockers, which can have long-term effects of sterilization and other ailments.

https://www.salon.com/2022/06/16/gender-transition-treatment-minimum-age-lowered-to-14-years-old/


Sue the monsters.
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12:55p, 5/21/23
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

And who have never heard of 3 time World Champion and 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist in the 800m, Caster Semenya.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220720-semenya-welcome-at-world-champs-says-coe


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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Cal88
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In reply to DiabloWags • 1:16p, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...



Do not believe your lying eyes, trust the "Science", and the experts have peer-reviewed research proving that Thomas has had no physical advantage in annihilating women athletes...



Thomas has that coat on on the podium to hide the massive difference in body built with the other medalists.
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sycasey
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:40p, 5/21/23
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.
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In reply to sycasey • 2:46p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.
Yup.
So much for crushing the NCAA Women's Swim Championships.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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2:48p, 5/21/23
We've all heard of STATE SPONSORED TERRRISM.

Well here is an example of STATE SPONSORED CHEATING.

I give you Mother Russia.
They cant even compete on the world stage "fairly" without STATE SPONSORED SYSTEMATIC DOPING.

Why would anyone believe a single word that PUTIN says?



"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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In reply to sycasey • 2:49p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.


One national event as the best "female" swimmer in the entire NCAA in that event for that entire year. That's a big deal.
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:03p, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.
Yup.
So much for crushing the NCAA Women's Swim Championships.


Only six trans swimmers and one of them won the national. Exceptional.
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DiabloWags
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3:10p, 5/21/23
A poster that knows full well that I have them on IGNORE continues to "reply" to me.

He's either lonely or creepy.
I will go with creepy.


"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:25p, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
A poster that knows full well that I have them on IGNORE continues to "reply" to me.

He's either lonely or creepy.
I will go with creepy.



If you don't want to be replied to, don't comment in a discussion I am clearly taking part in. I will go with you are cognitively impaired.
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In reply to sycasey • 3:26p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.

Yup.
Never mind that it may have been a "down" year in the Women's 500 Free.

I'm not going to take the time to check. But I know that Katie Ledecky holds the record and is 10 seconds ahead of Lia Thomas (4:24 vs 4:34). I believe that Bama's Kensey McMahon won the 500 Free title this year in 4:36

Next thing you know, we'll have posters mixing more "apples and oranges" and comparing other transgender swimmers with Thomas (a freestyler) even though they swim breast or back. In fact, it probably doesnt even cross their mind how twisted their logic is.

"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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concordtom
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:35p, 5/21/23
Lia Thomas will soon graduate off. Then what will the phobes have to be phobic about?

(Plenty, I'm sure - they're phobes!)
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Big C
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In reply to concordtom • 3:42p, 5/21/23
concordtom said:
Cal88 said:
DiabloWags said:
Cal88 said:
Eastern Oregon Bear said:

Where is this huge wave of trans athletes dominating women's sports? I only see a few here and there with only occasional success at best. I seriously doubt anyone would transition just to do that.

Also, Renee Richards didn't change the landscape of women's tennis all those years ago.

It's still pretty early, I think the floodgates will start opening once there is a successful role model star trans athlete. In NCAAW BB, we could start seeing that once there are trans players coming out from HS, The colleges that will recruit them first will have a big step up over the competition.

The differential is very clear in sports like swimming or T&F, where the performance delta is readily quantified, but that differential is the same in sports like BB, soccer etc, where for instance the world champion USWMNT would get crushed by a decent boys' high school team.

Cool story.

Do you actually believe that a trans high school athlete just shows up in college and competes without making any changes?

You might want to do some homework in order to become better informed.

For starters, each sports National Governing Body makes the rules.
If there is no NGB, then the policy would be determined by that sport's international federation. And if there is no international federation, the policy would then be determined by the IOC.

Doesnt sound like you are actually aware of the Rules governing trans athletes.

For participation in last year's Winter and Spring Championships, documentation by an athlete had to include compliance with the 2010 NCAA policy, which stipulates ONE YEAR OF TESTOSTERONE SUPPRESSION TREATMENT.

How many Colleges do you know will be recruiting transgender athletes if they have to sit out a year on suppression meds?

Doesnt sound like a very economic way of utilizing one's scholarship funds.

Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy - NCAA.org

Thomas went from a mediocre/average male swimmer at UPenn to D1 NCAAW champ after transitioning.

You'd have to be more braindead than a Pennsylvania senator to believe that Thomas didn't have the physiological advantages of a biological male in blowing out the field of women's swimming.


Sure he did.
He/she had a man's skeleton. Advantage.

But so what.
I really don't care!
UPenn womens swimming.
Don't care!
Doesn't affect me or you or anyone we know or will likely ever come into contact with. And this is not the same as not caring about innocent Iraqis killed in Desert Storm II who I will also never know.

It's not life and death.
It's seeing who can swim faster from one side of the pool to the other. In college. And do any of us really care????

Exactly. I just don't see this ever starting to happen very often. So many ways to handle it without freaking out. Organization-by-organization, case-by-case, just award a fourth medal, create a third category, whatever.

It's never going to be a common occurrence... and yet every time it does happen, people on the fringe are going to make sure everyone knows about that rare particular instance. In that respect, it reminds me of the few cases of people believed to have died from the COVID vaccine. (Cue somebody posting a link to some nut saying the vaccine has killed millions of people.)
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:43p, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

And who have never heard of 3 time World Champion and 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist in the 800m, Caster Semenya.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220720-semenya-welcome-at-world-champs-says-coe



If I understand the Caster Semanya situation, it's ENTIRELY different!!
She was born a hermaphrodite. Female parts, make hormones. No?

I'm not sure what the DNA record would say but a
He's a great example of the reality that gender (physical or mental) is not binary (either A or B).

And aren't we all curious about Britney Griner, too?

I think the point the "left" wants to make has nothing to do with sporting competition and everything to do with just letting people be who they want to be.

The right can't stand it, and I don't understand why. Are their brains so small?
We simply don't have all the answers to biology, or the universe, at this time.
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sycasey
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In reply to DiabloWags • 3:44p, 5/21/23
DiabloWags said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.

Yup.
Never mind that it may have been a "down" year in the Women's 500 Free.

It was. They didn't come close to setting any new records.

And look, I can see how someone who went through male puberty and transitioned to being a woman (doing all the medical steps too) might have an unfair advantage in this sport. But the way people exaggerate how well Lia Thomas did is ridiculous. Her times are not wildly out of line with what cis women have done. It's obviously part of a broader political agenda, not borne out of legitimate concern for women's sports.
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movielover
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3:49p, 5/21/23
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In reply to concordtom • 3:55p, 5/21/23
concordtom said:
DiabloWags said:
For the people that arent up to date...

https://www.science.org/content/article/world-athletics-banned-transgender-women-competing-does-science-support-rule

And who have never heard of 3 time World Champion and 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist in the 800m, Caster Semenya.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220720-semenya-welcome-at-world-champs-says-coe



If I understand the Caster Semanya situation, it's ENTIRELY different!!
She was born a hermaphrodite. Female parts, make hormones. No?

I'm not sure what the DNA record would say but a
He's a great example of the reality that gender (physical or mental) is not binary (either A or B).

And aren't we all curious about Britney Griner, too?

I think the point the "left" wants to make has nothing to do with sporting competition and everything to do with just letting people be who they want to be.

The right can't stand it, and I don't understand why. Are their brains so small?
We simply don't have all the answers to biology, or the universe, at this time.


Hermaphrodites are exceptionally rare.

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4:02p, 5/21/23
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11731777/Trans-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-dropped-pants-exposed-male-genitalia-womens-locker-room.html
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4:46p, 5/21/23
For the sake of talking about something other than trans athletes, here is a recent interesting article about poorer countries running into problems when their debt is due to be paid back to China.

https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/
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In reply to oski003 • 5:10p, 5/21/23
oski003 said:
For the sake of talking about something other than trans athletes, here is a recent interesting article about poorer countries running into problems when their debt is due to be paid back to China.

https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/


Welcome to the non-dollar reserve future
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5:28p, 5/21/23


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DiabloWags
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In reply to sycasey • 6:20p, 5/21/23
sycasey said:
DiabloWags said:
sycasey said:
Cal88 said:


Of course that article from "Science" magazine will quote activist academics who will claim that Lia Thomas has had no physiological advantages of being a biological male in crushing the NCAAW field...
She won one event.

Yup.
Never mind that it may have been a "down" year in the Women's 500 Free.

It was. They didn't come close to setting any new records.

And look, I can see how someone who went through male puberty and transitioned to being a woman (doing all the medical steps too) might have an unfair advantage in this sport. But the way people exaggerate how well Lia Thomas did is ridiculous. Her times are not wildly out of line with what cis women have done. It's obviously part of a broader political agenda, not borne out of legitimate concern for women's sports.


You are correct.

You can tell the people here that actually "know" something about the Sport that is being discussed... as opposed to the political "hacks" here.

Thank you for your informed input.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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